--- Log opened Thu Nov 02 00:00:00 2023
00:00 < bountyht> Hmmmm... what if the process doing the chrooting unveil()s and pledge()s not to chroot? I guess not perfect because the user could spawn yet another unpledged process and chroot back=
00:00 < fro> ovh has a $1/mo vps now as well
00:00 < bountyht> ?
00:00 < bountyht> What I mean is
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00:01 < bountyht> You have a custom shell, that chroots and then drops privileges and pledges not to regain them
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00:03 < Bradipo> And how does the user install software they want to run?
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00:04 < bountyht> They ask you nicely to do it. Ok ok, I know I am not helping
00:05 < Bradipo> Well, it's not a bad idea for keeping users as users doing whatever the user can do.
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00:05 < Bradipo> But yes, that's what I said above... you would have to write a custom tool that allows them to install stuff that is not part of the chroot and through which "requests to install packages" are funneled.
00:06 < bountyht> THere are hosting providers doing something similar already
00:07 < bountyht> Like giving you a web interface and a list of ready to use software appliances you can get installed automatically
00:07 < bountyht> BUt if you only can rely on something like that then the whole thing is much less flexible than a proper VPS
00:07 < NewtonTrendy> how does this give you a tutorial inside the vps shell?
00:08 < Bradipo> Yep.  chroot as a cheap alterntative to a VPS doesn't seem to cut it.
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00:09 < ssm_> vps on chroot? just host on real root at that point
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03:09 < echelon> how do i troubleshoot why `pkg_add curl` is taking so long
03:09 < echelon> ok, finally got an error
03:10 < echelon> https://paste.ee/r/vx462
03:11 < oldlaptop> Absent further information my guess would be that the CDN was feeling drunk.
03:11 < oldlaptop> Maybe try again, maybe use something other than a CDN
03:12 < echelon> same thing was happening earlier.. it's progressing somewhat
03:12 < oldlaptop> I would try a different mirror.
03:12 < echelon> first it was showing this.. at 7%
03:13 < oldlaptop> (or rather, a mirror directly, or at least a different CDN.)
03:13 < oldlaptop> CDNs do not always work.
03:13 < echelon> then this https://paste.ee/r/CBRHD
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03:13 < echelon> ok
03:16 < echelon> hey, that fixed it
03:16 < echelon> thanks
03:16 < echelon> weird that cdn is broken like this
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03:21 < lts> They are just someone else's computers
03:21 < echelon> so does cdn.openbsd.org just redirect to a random mirror?
03:23 < lts> Semi-random - it tries to return one close to you
03:23 < echelon> i mean it doesn't seem to do a Location redirect
03:23 < echelon> so the cdn itself is just proxying
03:24 < echelon> reverse proxying
03:25 < lts> Someone more knowledgeable can tell are the returned entries pointing some other openbsd mirrors which you could select without CDN, or to some Fastly CDN services
03:26 < echelon> cdn.openbsd.org is an alias for openbsd.map.fastlydns.net.
03:33 < oldlaptop> Most of the time, it gets you faster mirror service with less effort, especially compared to (say) trying to default to ftp.openbsd.org
03:34 < oldlaptop> Occasionally, something goes wrong.
03:35 < oldlaptop> If that becomes a problem, the only real solution is to change the default. The CDN is a better default than any one mirror could be, because it's harder for a zillion people who never change the default to flatten, but picking a local mirror should (normally, usually) be better still.
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07:37 < xjl> hi my name is Danny and I used the OpenBSD
07:38 < xjl> it was fun.
07:40 < xjl> thanks guys keep up the good work.
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08:07  * sonya desperately wants a gtk2 browser… like seamonkey-2.48/2.49.2 or firefox-45.9.0esr…
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08:09  * zelest desperately wants a javascript-free web
08:09  * sonya pours zelest a cup of "all the best"
08:10 < zelest> :D
08:11 < sonya> btw, right now using w3m for text-only www and links2 with stuff like kproxy.com (not ad, just an example) when ecma-script is needed.. 
08:12  * zelest is lazy and run regular Firefox
08:12 < sonya> may be privoxy could strip off things, but sites with implemented script-checks are annoying..
08:14  * sonya is lazy too… and running 448Mb RAM (64Mb is reserved for integrated video) on P4 notebook..
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08:21 < zyxer> Damn, and I used to run on 8mb VRAM and 320 mb RAM. Although that couldn't really surf the modern web at all, had to use dillo. Or terminal based
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08:23 < jnth> i decided to go with 60gb in total, 30GB for /usr, 5 Gb for swap, 5GB for / and the rest for /home
08:23 < sonya> zyxer, dillo is not good, imo.. it has a 'dpid' and .dpi stuff - they're slow.. w3m and links2 - the way to go, imo..
08:23 < sonya> jnth, stop
08:23 < jnth> sound good or should i give more to /?
08:24 < jnth> sonya: ?
08:24 < sonya> jnth, sec
08:24 < sonya> typiing
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08:25 < IcePic> zyxer: was it you that asked about ppc32 packages?
08:25 < sonya> 30G for /usr - mistake.. you need "clear" base if you have an option.. and you have.. base - is / .. separate partition could be nice for /usr/local for packages/app store.. 
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08:26 < sonya> 60G in total - VERY GOOD
08:26 < sonya> 5G for / - super
08:26 < sonya> you may split 5G to 2.5 + 2.5 for altroot
08:26 < sonya> more than enough
08:27 < sonya> and then separate partitions for $HOME and /usr/local.. yes
08:27 < sonya> # EOF
08:27 < zyxer> IcePic: Maybe? I used that up until like 1 week ago because I needed to do tkinter in python 3, and the old mac decided that tkinter didn't need proper graphics
08:28 < IcePic> zyxer: the ppc32 packages are available on mirrors now for 7.4 
08:28 < jnth> sonya: so what would you suggest for /usr and /usr/local?
08:28 < zyxer> Oh, thanks for the notification!  
08:28 < sonya> jnth, /usr is a part of base (/)
08:29 < jnth> ah, right! alrighty
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08:30 < sonya> jnth, so in the end you'll have separate parts/disklabels for /, /usr/local, /home, /swap
08:30 < sonya> jnth, just think about to split 5G / for an altroot (separate partition for a / backup)
08:31 < jnth> i will
08:31 < sonya> 2.5G for base (/) is more than enough
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08:32 < IcePic> stiff old admins might like having /var separate, in case you run services on the machine, so that logs filling up doesn't affet anything else
08:32 < jnth> okay, but i could extend it later on if needed right?
08:33 < IcePic> but mostly, I just let the (a)uto stuff decide, which makes /home super large, then as /usr/local starts filling up (which happens sooner or later), I move /usr/local to /home/local and softlink it and go on as if nothing happened
08:33 < sonya> IcePic, "stiff old admins" use newsyslog :))
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08:33 < IcePic> sonya: you can tell by the name that it is FAR too new to be used.
08:34 < sonya> :))
08:35  * IcePic needs /usr/libexec/oldsyslog
08:36 < zelest> Hi, do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and saviour, journald? :D
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08:38  * sonya heard smth about journald while watching pornhub… but i'm not sure what it was…
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13:39 < jnth> i installed openbsd on a 60gb partition but i have a slight problem. how do i get the grub in ubuntu to recognise it? it doesn't show up in uefi boot sequence either
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13:44 < sonya> jnth, https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html   afaik, grub was fine at smth like chainload/chainloader and marking (a) root OpenBSD partition as the one active
13:45 < sonya> chainloader +1 or so
13:46 < coreystephanphd> jnth: UEFI --> Try disabling everything related to Secure Boot and enabling everything related to Legacy BIOS booting.
13:48 < jnth> coreystephanphd: secure boot is disabled, legacy bios isn't supported
13:49 < jnth> sonya: it shows multibooting for windows but i do not use windows.
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13:49 < jnth> i tried grub-customiser but the 60gb partition isn't visible
13:50 < jnth> and in gparted, a warning sign shows up next to the 60gb partition
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13:50 < sonya> jnth, just look how to tell grub that this 60G part is the only active and do chainloader +1 to it
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13:51 < jnth> okay
13:51 < sonya> i don't remember exactly syntax
13:51  * sonya is gone.. again.. need to paint a fence.. :)
13:52 < skydoge> sonya, what color
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13:59 < oldlaptop> jnth: On a UEFI multi-boot system, I would normally recommend refind.
14:02 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD will install its EFI bootloader as the BOOTX64.EFI 'fallback', because it doesn't (at least at this time) support modifying the EFI firmware variables. (If that doesn't mean anything to you, you may want to read up on how UEFI works. The refind website <http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/> has some good information.)
14:04 < oldlaptop> The nice thing about refind is that (once you get *it* properly configured in the firmware, and manage to keep something from messing that up) it doesn't rely on that, it will just show you all the bootloaders on the EFI system partition. So you can just copy OpenBSD's EFI bootloader to /openbsd.efi or something under the EFI system partition and it'll all work.
14:04 < jnth> oldlaptop: or my installation could have gone wrong
14:04 < oldlaptop> GRUB chainloading in an EFI environment is quite tricky in contrast, in my experience.
14:05 < jnth> https://imgur.com/eWDOEns.png
14:05 < oldlaptop> Probably nothing "went wrong" with your installation.
14:06 < oldlaptop> Does gparted give you any information beyond (!)?
14:06 < oldlaptop> ISTR that just signifies that it doesn't think your partition is optimally aligned to 4K boundaries or something.
14:07 < jnth> i'll post the information, just a sec
14:07 < jnth> https://paste.debian.net/1296949/
14:08 < oldlaptop> Yeah, dumpe2fs sure isn't going to have much success trying to read your openbsd disklabel as an ext2 filesystem.
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14:10 < jnth> okay then, i'll look at refind
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14:10 < oldlaptop> If I recall correctly, `apt install refind` or whatever should be enough, on ubuntu, to sort of automagically set everything up for you.
14:11 < oldlaptop> (Although, along with all the other excellent information on the refind site, you'll want to be aware of http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/bootcoup.html)
14:11 < coreystephanphd> right
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14:23 < jnth> finally, it worked
14:23 < jnth> but i had to download x64 EFI from the ftp site, place it in /boot, edit the refind config to recognise the partition
14:23 < Bradipo> Woudl teaking net.inet.udp.recvspace "improve" an NFS mount that is going over a WAN?
14:24 < jnth> it's a bit ugly but i'll fix it later
14:24 < jnth> thank you all
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14:27 < thrig> NFS over WAN sounds like a world of hurt
14:35 < renaud> NFS <4 over WAN will clearly hurt
14:35 < eea> even NFS4 with tcp over WAN is harsh, can confirm
14:35 < Bradipo> It's actually not too bad.
14:36 < Bradipo> But does OpenBSD's nfs client do TCP?  From what I can tell it's using UDP.
14:37 < renaud> Bahhumbug: man mount_nfs
14:37 < uwharrie> https://man.openbsd.org/mount_nfs#T
14:37 < renaud> ahh, I meant Bradipo 
14:37 < renaud> but NFS on OpenBSD is v3 max, not v4
14:38 < eea> ^
14:38 < renaud> also, if you are on a WAN, make sure you mount intr,soft
14:39 < Bradipo> Would TCP improve anything?  I can experiment.
14:40 < thrig> and are okay with corruption or whatnot that soft brings
14:41 < renaud> thrig: you have the choice, possible corruption or client freezes
14:41 < renaud> TCP won't improve performance, but may improve reliability
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14:45 < Bradipo> I think for now I would rather avoid TCP in this.
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15:12 < Bradipo> Well, increasing net.inet.udp.recvspace doesn't seem to have made any difference.
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15:17 < Bradipo> So if I want to try TCP, there is a -T option, but how do I specify that in /etc/fstab?
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15:42 < Bradipo> So mount_nfs mentions a number of options that can be used to alter behavior.  -T, -a, -r, -w, etc...
15:42 < Bradipo> How does one specify those in /etc/fstab?
15:44 < Bradipo> The fstab man page gives an example for an nfs mount: server:/export/ports /usr/ports nfs rw,nodev,nosuid,soft,intr 0 0
15:44 < Bradipo> But I cannot find where the "soft" word comes from...
15:45 < Bradipo> mount_nfs mentions -s as allowing "soft", but how does the fstab fs_mntops option of "soft" translate into -s to mount_nfs?
15:45 < Bradipo> Is there a table of keywords that can be used in the fs_mntops field?
15:47 < Bradipo> Hmm, looks like I can just put -T in the fs_mntops.
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15:56 < joukahainen> i'm not sure about -s, but -T is the option "tcp"
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15:56 < Bradipo> Yeah, seems I can just put the literal options in the fstab.
15:56 < Bradipo> e.g. -T,-a=4,-r=X, etc...
15:57 < Bradipo> The option that has made the biggest difference so far is -r.
15:57 < Bradipo> -T didn't help at all really.
15:59 < joukahainen> -T is often necessary for mounting shares from linux, but it makes performance worse afaict
15:59 < Bradipo> Looks like -r has an undocumented maximum.
16:02 < joukahainen> src/sbin/mount_nfs.c has a struct with all the options listed
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16:03 < Bradipo> Thanks.
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16:08 < Bradipo> Haha, interesting, this article came to the same conclusions that I did: https://findelabs.com/post/nfs-performance-tuning/
16:09 < Bradipo> Modifying net.inet.udp.recvspace had no noticeable effect.
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23:19 < ssm_> what cipher do you recommend for plaintext files holding short (8-64 char) passwords?
23:20 < ssm_> I've been using aes-256-cbc
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23:30 < sonya> ssm_, may be smth from ECC (elliptic-curve)… they're fast, small and reliable, imo…
23:31 < thrig> passwords might want to be resistant to offline brute forcing?
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23:44 < ssm_> thrig: the passwords themselves are short, but the encryption password is (hopefully) stronger
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23:44 < ssm_> not out of choice, but because websites are stupid and put really stupid restrictions on passwords sometimes
23:45 < ssm_> whatever I'm gonna use blowfish, when in rome
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 03 00:00:02 2023