--- Log opened Mon Nov 06 00:00:06 2023
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00:03 < deacon426> pardis, how's openbsd life?
00:06 < thrig> no allegiance to pledge
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00:29 < oldlaptop> You know, I could have sworn there was actually more to life than computer operating systems.
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02:09 < prahou> oldlaptop: wasn't it Socrates who said: "I don't know much about life, but I know computer operating systems are the next best thing."
02:10 < oldlaptop> Well, keep in mind the man admitted he didn't know anything
02:11 < oldlaptop> (Took him a while to figure that out, I guess)
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02:12 < prahou> Must've been Plato then: famous for embellishing Socrate's speeches.
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02:20 < oldlaptop> I'm sure he had a great idea to make the optimal, perfect, utopian operating system
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02:46 < thrig> and not a little totalitarian
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04:39 < ludovicus> penis
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05:14 < echelon> hi, how do i preserve the subj altname and serverAuth flag when issuing a certificate from a CSR?
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05:22 < armin> echelon: you can simply use <-addext "subjectAltName = DNS:foo.bar.co.uk"> (without the <>) on the command line when doing your CSR with the "openssl req" thing. 
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05:48 < echelon> armin: when i do `openssl x509 -req -in cert.csr -addtext "subjectAltName=DNS:whatever.com` i get.. `unknown option -addtext`
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05:53 < echelon> https://paste.ee/r/4SRop
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06:01 < echelon> armin: did you mean i should use -addtext when doing `openssl req -new ..`?
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06:25 < echelon> it works when i issue -addtext to `openssl req -new ..`, but after i do `openssl x509 -req -in server.csr ..` it doesn't produce the subj altname
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06:34 < echelon> i had to use -extensions v3_req and then created a cnf file with -extfile
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13:13 < zyxer> how can I make cwm run a specific command at start? Context: I am trying to find info but can't. This is a linux machine with "pipewire &" in .xinitrc but it doesn't work because it needs the dbus session launched later with cwm at the end of the file
13:13 < zyxer> So I need cwm to autolaunch it. But I can't find how
13:14  * oldlaptop would be surprised if cwm has any such feature
13:14 < oldlaptop> surely you could launch your dbus session in .xinitrc?
13:14 < zyxer> Yes, but it is launched with cwm. Can I launch a session before? And then add cwm to it?
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13:32 < jmcunx> zyxer: see https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq11.html#CustomizingX
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13:33 < zyxer> Yea well, I have no issues on OpenBSD, this is out of topic, I just have a hard time finding info on it elsewhere
13:33 < jmcunx> but not sure what is meant by "launch a session"
13:33 < zyxer> a dbus session
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13:48 < jmcunx> zyxer: so this is OT and a Linux thing ?  If so check ##slackware, somehow they have a way of doing that IIRC
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14:36 < zyxer> I am not sure where the error is but OpenBSD host, murmurd, refuses connections
14:36 < zyxer> I setup firewall rule in OpenBSD router to port forward the port
14:42 < zyxer> How can I monitor incomming traffic on the server? 
14:43 < dayid> zyxer: depends on what type of monitoring you want - if you're looking for residual graphs/etc like cacti, grafana or something with more active alerting like nagios or if you just want to debug - then perhaps tcpdump, etc.
14:45 < dayid> "refuses connection" usually would be: make sure process is running, make sure it is listening on port/IP, make sure you can connect from local, then start tcpdumping your pflog and see what rule it's matching that may be blocking when you desired passing.
14:49 < zyxer> Ok I found the correct command. The traffic reaches my server
14:51 < zyxer> I guess it is more of a murmurd issue than openBSD
14:51 < zyxer> Also, I am on VPN to avoid the issue
14:52 < zyxer> tcpdump was what I was looking for
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15:12 < armin> zyxer: you can simply "dbus-launch ssh-agent <yourwindowmanager>"
15:13 < armin> zyxer: and then if that runs you can start pipewire, too, so if you can, start it from your WM.
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15:15 < armin> zyxer: and please look at the channel name, people will like be annoyed if we abuse this channel for linux desktop stuff.
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15:15 < zyxer> Yea sorry
15:16 < armin> zyxer: well it's not entirely off-topic because dbus-launch and ssh-agent should be present on OpenBSD, too. :)
15:17 < thrig> chmod -x dbus*  is a step I take
15:18 < zyxer> Hmm... I am still stuck on murmurd refusing connections...
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15:47 < andinus> with relayd is it possible to relay multiple domains with different certificate files?
15:48 < Bradipo> Yes.
15:48 < andinus> i only have a single ip though
15:48 < andinus> is it possible with a single ip?
15:48 < thrig> isn't SNI a thing
15:48 < Bradipo> That I'm not sure about.
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15:50 < andinus> oh it seems like i might be able to add multiple tls keypair  lines to make it work
15:50 < Bradipo> andinus: If you get it working, let me know.  I'm curious.
15:50 < andinus> okay
15:51 < Bradipo> I'm using separate tls keypairs, but they are also defined in separate protocol definitions.
15:52 < Bradipo> The real question comes down to the "relay" section... you can only have one relay listen on a address/port combination I think.
15:52 < Bradipo> But maybe you can define multiple protocols with their own forwards in the relay?
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15:56 < riceandbeans> Curious, if you use mutt for mail, what can/would you recommend for also displaying calendar in a terminal, the other end is regrettably Office365
15:57 < Bradipo> I just use vi.
15:57 < Bradipo> Or less.
16:01 < thrig> pretty sure I ended up using the web outlook thing for meetings and mutt for the email (after ditching outlook, I tried), but then I also soon left that company
16:01 < brock> For a calendar app, I like the extremely functional remind: https://dianne.skoll.ca/projects/remind/
16:02 < CosmicDJ> riceandbeans: https://github.com/pimutils/khal not sure if it works with O365 though
16:02 < brock> it's in the repos, though WYRD, which is the curses based front end, is not available, even though it's actively maintained
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16:06 < andinus> brock: i just added an extra "tls keypair" line in relayd.conf and it seems to just work
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16:07 < Bradipo> I suppose your use is different from mine...
16:07 < Bradipo> Are you relaying to a different set of backend servers?
16:08 < Bradipo> In my case, I have 2 different sets of servers and have different domains.  domain1 relays to set1 and domain2 relays to set2.
16:09 < andinus> no, i'm relaying to same local httpd
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16:10 < andinus> it seems like for that you can create different table and match on Host: 
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16:10 < andinus> https://www.adyxax.org/blog/2021/02/10/openbsd-relayd/httpd-web-server-example/ -- 
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16:29 < Bradipo> What is with all these lame websites that use massively large fonts?
16:30 < Bradipo> andinus: Yes, indeed that looks like it.  Thanks.
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16:37 < gry> large fonts? in 2023? i thought they use tiny fonts since 2005
16:37 < Bradipo> gry: Do the fonts not look huge to you on: https://www.adyxax.org/blog/2021/02/10/openbsd-relayd/httpd-web-server-example/ ?
16:37 < Bradipo> I had to reduce it down to 60% to make it presentable.
16:38 < gry> ah yes, odd
16:38 < Bradipo> I run into all kinds of web sites like this.
16:38 < Bradipo> Huge fonts.
16:39 < Bradipo> Litters my browser store with preferences for scale I'm sure.
16:40 < riceandbeans> Hmmm khal looks nice but suggests using davmail to talk to office365 and I have a hard rule against intentionally using Java, so I have to find another path, but thank you guys for the suggestions, it's at least given me ideas for things to try out
16:40 -!- traveller [~traveller@109-252-150-172.dynamic.spd-mgts.ru] has joined #openbsd
16:41 < Bradipo> I use davmail, but only for POP3.
16:41 < Bradipo> Never used it for calendar.
16:41 < Bradipo> And yes, I typically don't like to use Java either, but if it's a choice between running Java on OpenBSD, or Windows, what do you think I'm going to take?
16:42 -!- traveller [~traveller@109-252-150-172.dynamic.spd-mgts.ru] has quit [Client Quit]
16:42 < riceandbeans> Yeah, but I would choose to find another path, personally.
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17:06 < armin> Bradipo: Java on Windows doesn't exactly sound like something I would want to do. :)
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17:10 < et09> Bradipo: raw email viewing?
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17:11 < Bradipo> armin: I didn't say Java on Windows...
17:11 < thrig> until you learn the building security system requires java version hackable + internet explorer version hackable so you end up with a special virt for the building guy to use
17:12 < Bradipo> et09: I'm not sure what that question is about...
17:13 < Bradipo> I do very often look at "raw email" but not as a routine.
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17:16 < armin> Bradipo: you said "if it's a choice between running Java on OpenBSD, or Windows,", which I understood so. :)
17:16 < Bradipo> armin: Yes, it's possible my grammar failed in this instance.
17:17 < Bradipo> If it's a choice between running Java on OpenBSD, or running Windows. :-)
17:17 -!- teliu [~teliu@2001:9e8:83df:5000:d829:127a:a25e:1736] has joined #openbsd
17:18 < armin> thrig: I've seen these weird web administrated proprietary firewall things which almost every 2nd company seems to use. And Cisco IOS and these weird things. I'm a bit shocked right now to find out how widely that stuff is used.
17:19 < thrig> yeah those are horrible, sketchy SSL support, the need to go through and click on things like a monkey instead of proper automation, etc
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17:20 < thrig> then some monkey misses a button and then NFS fails due to some "improve network security" checkbox
17:21 < armin> thrig: Another thing that completely blanks my mind is Matrix (or Riot, or Element, or whatever it's called today). I've lost a lot of friends, even in the nerdy communities, just because people switch to that, and every single time I try to even use that at all I want to throw something large through a closed window.
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17:22 < Bradipo> armin: What specifically do you not like about Matrix?
17:22 < armin> Bradipo: Everything? I don't know where to start.
17:22 < armin> I just want to live a reasonable life. Inside a terminal window. OpenBSD enables me to do so.
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17:23 < Bradipo> I am a bit disappointed that the client support for Matrix is limited.  Element is about t he only useable option, and I'm not fond of it either.
17:23 < Bradipo> There is a terminal Matrix client.  I've tried it.  It worked, not admirably.
17:23 < armin> Bradipo: I could just spam the channel now with things I personally consider a horror, but I don't want to spam.
17:24 < armin> It's too much, really.
17:25 < thrig> lovely spam! wonderful spam spam spam spam spam spam
17:25 < armin> But since we're in #OpenBSD, let me just say that I entirely disagree with the fact you can't even delete your own user account on some instance, that I don't want other people to know what devices and operating systems I use when, and that basically all meta-data for group chats is being relayed over matrix.org.
17:26 < armin> That's just 3 security-related things that I find un-acceptable.
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17:28 < Bradipo> What about hosting your own Matrix server?
17:28 < Bradipo> Syntapse is in ports/packages.
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17:29 < Bradipo> But, I see your point about people knowing about devices and such.
17:29 < Bradipo> Perhaps it's not the best model...
17:29 < armin> Bradipo: Oh I actually tried doing that. Raspberry PI is not working at all for that, and even when I threw a pretty fast machine against it, joining matrix-hq took over 20 minutes (!?).
17:29 < armin> Bradipo: While I was joining, the postgresql process took up 100% constantly.
17:30 < Bradipo> Well, I don't mean that you should join our synapse to the matrix.
17:30 < Bradipo> Just a standalone private server.
17:30 < armin> Bradipo: Entirely un-acceptable. I also have friends with very very low-end hardware. OpenBSD runs just fine on that as long as they don't try to run the element-desktop thing.
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17:30 < Bradipo> I only use Element Web, so I don't know about that.
17:30 < armin> Bradipo: Even that will cause MAJOR cpu load.
17:30 < Bradipo> I haven't noticed it that much.
17:31 < Bradipo> Teams is much worse.
17:31 < armin> Bradipo: Not everyone can afford a fast computer. I have poor friends and I want them to be able to communicate with me.
17:31 < Bradipo> Well, there's talk and talkd that comes with base. :-)
17:31 < armin> We use just IRC over SSH. :)
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17:33 < armin> It works absolutely fine, insanely reliably, everything. We would never go back to Matrix, lol.
17:33 < Bradipo> And hence you lose friends because some may want to chat on their "smart phones".
17:34 < armin> Bradipo: I do chat with them on my phone using an SSH client. They think they need a server-side backlog (!?), emoji (!?) or notifications on their phones (I have vibration+sound off anyways, why would I bother!?).
17:35 < armin> Bradipo: and really all I use is an IRC bridge. I don't want to deal with Matrix and that's about it. :)
17:36 < Bradipo> Fair enough.  I'm still looking for something better than IRC and SSH.
17:36 < armin> It doesn't exist. Stop looking. Use just that.
17:36 < Bradipo> Something with true encryption.
17:36 < armin> SSH exists.
17:37 < Bradipo> Well, I suppose if you host your own IRC and the only access to it is via SSH, sure.
17:37 < armin> If you want to chat with a friend, use some machine you both have SSH access to and build your thing around that.
17:37 < Bradipo> Yep.
17:37 < thrig> SDF has com, if you want something even more primitive
17:37 < armin> That's what we do since many many years. It works perfectly.
17:37 < armin> Just encapsulate things within SSH, just do.
17:38 < armin> <3 OpenSSH
17:38 < Bradipo> Oh I use SSH for all kinds of swiss army knife operations.
17:38 < armin> yes!
17:38 < armin> SSH is a dream.
17:38 < armin> It's just too good to exist.
17:39 < armin> SSH is the very best thing that was ever invented. Change my mind.
17:39 < Bradipo> It's one of the best, certainly.
17:39 < thrig> beer?
17:39 < armin> Yes, beer.
17:40 < armin> Ok, you got me. :)
17:40 < Bradipo> But it does limit the audience that is willing to participate in your chat.
17:40 < armin> Bradipo: I'm sorry for being a bit too verbose. My apologies.
17:40 < Bradipo> I don't mind.  These are challenging topics to discuss.
17:41 < Bradipo> I've setup a private Matrix (synapse really) on OpenBSD but am willing to hear reasons why I shouldn't.
17:41 < armin> Anyhow, I wrote a pkg wrapper for all the pkg_* things, I'm pretty sure hundreds of these exist somewhere in the wild, but I did write my own. Maybe just helpful for me as an OpenBSD newb, but it so totally helps.
17:42 < Bradipo> The nice thing about Matrix is precisely what you pointed out above... a persistent log.
17:42 < Bradipo> Participants don't have to be online all the time just to chat.
17:42 < thrig> persistent lag from what I hear
17:42 < armin> Bradipo: As long as it runs on your side, and I can use it with an IRC bridge, I would even use that, but I just don't like bloatware.
17:42 < Bradipo> Yes, you are right, Matrix/Synapse are indeed bloatware, no argument there.
17:43 < armin> Bradipo: But the server does!
17:43 < armin> Bradipo: So there IS a machine that's online all the time, it's just not your enduser device.
17:43 < Bradipo> SSH+IRC has no such log.
17:43 < Bradipo> Unless I'm running services and use the memoserv.
17:43 < armin> Bradipo: That's the beautiful thing about it, it just logs if you tell it to.
17:43 < tercaL> There's sshd-chat, btw :)
17:43 < Bradipo> But then such things are not in the group chat.
17:44 < Bradipo> Hmm, what's that I wonder...
17:44 < tercaL> https://github.com/shazow/ssh-chat
17:44 < armin> Bradipo: Matrix is just some hipster-glorified PostgreSQL database with replication, change my mind.
17:44 < tercaL> try it with: ssh ssh.chat - pretty weird yet funny thing.
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17:45 < Bradipo> ssh-chat is a custom SSH server written in Go.  No thanks.
17:45 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:46 < tercaL> "Instead of a shell, you get a chat prompt."
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17:47 < Bradipo> Yep.
17:47 < lts> Matrix shot itself in the lung today https://element.io/blog/element-to-adopt-agplv3/
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17:49 < armin> lts: oof.
17:49 < Bradipo> Yeah, big oof.
17:50 < armin> "Element has always put the growth and success of Matrix first." yup, Matthew, you're so close to understanding the issue...
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17:51 < thrig> isn't agpl often used as a poison pill license?
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17:55 < armin> FWIW a friend of mine is currently in Buenos Aires, he just told me that if you mention Matrix there the only answer is "lol".
17:55 < thrig> so much for linear algebra
17:57 < Bradipo> Why is that?
17:57 < Bradipo> Does the Brazilian State block access to Matrix?
17:58 < zyxer> What is the issue with AGPLv3? I have read the entire GPLv3 and atm no time to read entire AGPLv3
17:59 < armin> Bradipo: performance issues mostly.
17:59 < Bradipo> What's wrong with AGPLv3 is that it has GPL in it's name. :-)
18:00 < zyxer> Oh so it is the GPL similarities the complaints are about
18:00 < zyxer> What was the prior license?
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18:00 < Bradipo> Interesting, I wonder how much better SSH+IRC would be from Buenos Aires.
18:00 < armin> Bradipo: it just works, we're talking currently.
18:00 < zyxer> I have a fun meme about GPLv3 vs OoenBSDs preffered license
18:01 < Bradipo> armin: Well, this isn't exactly what I would consider a private chat.
18:01 < Bradipo> There's no end-to-end encryption for one.
18:01 < zyxer> Why would ppl not self host and rely on a centralised matrix server?
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18:01 < Bradipo> zyxer: Because Synapse is bloated.
18:01 < zyxer> Encryption is kinda unnecessary if ANYONE can just join and log the chat
18:01 < z3bra> and dendrite is too far behind
18:02 < Bradipo> Precisely.
18:02 < zyxer> Although I think this server uses tls?
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18:02 < Bradipo> It does.
18:02 < Bradipo> But that's still not end-to-end encrypted chat.
18:02 < Bradipo> The IRC server proper still has access to unencrypted data.
18:02 < zyxer> Yea well I mean if one wants to join matrix why not self host? 
18:03 < Bradipo> Yep, that's the only way I would do it.
18:03 < Bradipo> Though even with Matrix it *should* be safe to use matrix.org.
18:03 < Bradipo> Because it utilizes end-to-end encryption (in theory).
18:03 < zyxer> There was a scrutiny on them. They apparently collect metadata and IP adresses
18:04 < zyxer> even if you set it to not federise, if it has internet it still sends the data. 
18:04 < Bradipo> Sure, but you cannot avoid sending data over the wire.
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18:04 < Bradipo> Or are you saying that there is unencrypted data being sent over the wire?
18:04 < zyxer> you could turn those things of but they never disclosed that they collect some stuff
18:04 < zyxer> No I mean you setup your own server
18:05 < Bradipo> Yes, I have my own synapse server.
18:05 < zyxer> And all devices and metadata will by sent to the matrix main server
18:05 < zyxer> Your synapse sends the IP adresses of all devices connected to the main matrix team
18:05 < zyxer> Unless they changed that or you turned it off
18:06 < Bradipo> I probably turned it off.
18:06 < Bradipo> I go through such things with a fine toothed comb usually.
18:07 < Bradipo> Do you have details about the specific setting?  I can check my instance. :-)
18:09 < zyxer> I am looking. Some guy/s scrutinised matrix and found various issues with hidden settings. Around 1 year old "study" that was published on github
18:10 < zyxer> It caused some turmoil since they added telemetry without disclosing in patch notes or whatever it is called
18:11 < zyxer> Although it could be turned of, if the user/host was unaware (which most were) one wouldn't look for that setting
18:12 < Bradipo> I have a setting "report_stats" that I've set to false.
18:12 < Bradipo> I wonder if that's it.
18:12 < Bradipo> I always disable as much as I can.
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18:13 < zyxer> I am currently on phone and can't find it. 1 year old news easily drown in other stuff 
18:14 < Bradipo> Yeah, don't bother.  I'm pretty sure I disabled it.
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18:14 < zyxer> https://github.com/libremonde-org/paper-research-privacy-matrix.org/blob/master/part1/README.md
18:14 < zyxer> Found it
18:15 < zyxer> It was interesting
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18:15 < zyxer> But they did mention they found no issues with their e2ee
18:16 < zyxer> But the googleing duck seems to pull up some vulnearability in the e2ee that was found (and patched, so update). Not sure what date tho'
18:27 < armin> "the googleing duck" :D :D :D
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18:29 < armin> I remember how we gave Matrix a chance a couple of years ago, we ended up meeting weekly just to get drunk because it was just too broken.
18:30 < Bradipo> Hahaha.
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18:39 < hudlee> How do I restart dhclient after editing /etc/dhclient.conf?, I don't even see a dhclient running, or an rc script...
18:41 < hudlee> is dhcpleased being used instead?
18:41 < lts> Yes
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19:08 < hudlee> So how do I tell dhcpleased to ignore my isp's nameservers and use other ones? In dhcpleased.conf I tried interface em0 { ignore dns } and restarted the process but resolve.conf still has the nameservers in there, maybe I need to force a renew of the lease?
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19:11 < tercaL> hudlee: dhcpleased.conf: interface em0 { ignore dns } and additionally list other DNS' in dhclient.conf like: supersede domain-name-servers 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8;
19:11 < tercaL> then reboot&check your resolv.conf
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19:13 < quinq> https://nitter.net/shouldhaveanima/status/1721484621333107095
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19:15 < tercaL> quinq: <3
19:15 < quinq> :]
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19:26 < armin> tercaL: good answer.
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19:30 < tercaL> armin: thanks.
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19:54 < jrmu> I'm trying to build tcltls 1.7.22 on openbsd 7.3; it used to work flawlessly in the past but now I'm getting these errors upon running make: https://paste.ircnow.org/927gp2v8p2n45azcpar8
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19:59 < thrig> why not pkg_add tcltls ?
20:01 < jrmu> oh is it available now? let me check, my mistake
20:01 < jrmu> ok thanks thrig 
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21:14 < armin> lovely to see people coding tcl. <3
21:18 < zelest> last time I did that was like in 2002 or so.. doing antispam stuff for eggdrops :D
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21:19 < thrig> last I did that was 2023 or so.. a wrapper expect script
21:19 < zelest> :)
21:20 < thrig> prior to that, a test gemini server to fiddle with character encoding, etc
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21:55 < deepesttoaster> I've been searching for a while, and am coming up empty. Is there a way to prevent a process from entering the state "sleep"? Specifically I have prosody running and becoming unresponsive when the state is sleep and I'd like to prevent that to see if that will resolve the issue of becoming unresponsive intermittently.
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21:58 < thrig> what sleep state?
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22:11 < sonya> hudlee, another way is to 'rcctl stop resolvd && rcctl disable resolvd' and edit /etc/resolv.conf the way you like
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22:19 < deepesttoaster> thrig: just looking at the state in top and it says sleep
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22:21 < zelest> That's a good thing :D
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22:23 < deepesttoaster> It coincides with when the application becomes unresponsive and while correlation might not equal causation, it would be nice to test
22:23 < thrig> deepesttoaster: okay, and? how about the WAIT right next to that?
22:23 < deepesttoaster> kqread
22:24 < thrig> that's waiting on an event, which could be pretty normal
22:25 < deepesttoaster> dang, I was hoping that it was something more akin to computer sleep states than that. 
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22:25 < jrmu> is there anything apart from nfs for sharing filesystems on openbsd? I recall sshfs was removed
22:25 < jrmu> correction, sshfs* needs to be run as root
22:26 < uwharrie> samba is in ports
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22:26 < chakuari> hi
22:27 < deepesttoaster> hi
22:28 < chakuari> does anyone use uim to input other languages?
22:29 < chakuari> I use it for Japanese, mainly, but have a problem with some programs
22:29 < sonya> jrmu, for windows shares there's usmb in packages..
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22:29 < chakuari> for example, I can input freely in w3m or lynx or nvi, but not in links2 nor netsurf
22:29 < jrmu> hmm thanks, other than samba, I guess it's just NFS right?
22:30 < jrmu> I'm mostly thinking of other openbsd machines I'd like to share filesystems with
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22:31 < sonya> jrmu, heh.. you always can use ftpd with anon login and rw perm :))
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22:39 < jrmu> thanks. It looks like I need to learn about NFS
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22:46 < codermattie> jrmu: nfs is a mess
22:46 < codermattie> the openbsd implementation does not work with many other systems because it requires a connection from the reserved port range
22:47 < thrig> cross platform nfs has pretty much always been sketchy
22:48 < codermattie> then its not very useful
22:48 < thrig> nope. works until it doesn't, and then good luck debugging it
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22:49 < codermattie> my NAS does nfs just fine though
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22:50 < thrig> lucky you
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22:54 < codermattie> unfortunately the network player doesnt see it, I think it expects samba
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23:05 < jrmu> codermattie: is there an alternative?
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 07 00:00:01 2023