--- Log opened Sat Nov 11 00:00:13 2023
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00:46 < vortexx> is intel about to release a new gen of chips? Dell's XPS line seems to be a third down in price compared to a year ago on all 13" models...
00:46 < thrig> where are they in the tick tock thud cycle?
00:48 < fro> meteor lake is slated for dec release
00:49 < fro> but they just released 14th gen in like october didn't they
00:49 < fro> of raptor lake
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00:50 < vortexx> ok thanks
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00:52 < fro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_Lake
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06:46 < avemestr> vortexx: It seems support for the "Intel Killer" wifi chips used in XPS models was recently added to OpenBSD as well: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=168785615802294&w=2
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06:53 < vortexx> avemestr: yes I saw
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10:33 < meo> no support for 256 colors in console right?
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10:37 < quinq> What does infocmp say?
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10:47 < meo> i have no idea how to use it, the terminal is vt220, tput colors shows -1, becomes 8 with xterm or wsvt25
10:47 < meo> i need to rtfm dont I
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11:05 < quinq> Then I guess it's monochrome
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11:11 < zyxer> Chad 
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11:59 < sonya> meo, example: $ echo -e "\033[38;5;196;5;1;4;3;9;48;5;0mtest\033[00m"
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12:22 < ninjin> On a GNU system (I think) one usually resorts to `printf '%q' "$s"` to escape strings in shell scripts. Given that this is a Bash-ism, how should I approach the same problem on OpenBSD?
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12:36 < Feuermagier> Hi, I have a question about OpenBSD libc ASLR functionality: do different libc functions have randomized offsets between them?
12:37 < Feuermagier> because I'm having trouble inferring the location of system() from the location of fflush()
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13:17 < armin> ninjin: Well, you don't "escape" a string actually, you escape single characters, like foo\\bar for example, which would be equal to the *quoted* string "foo\bar" in BASH. I don't think that OpenBSD's KSH behaves much different in that regard.
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13:19 < ninjin> armin: True, but in a case where you have strings (filenames in this case) that you want to pass between commands safely, what would one reasonably do?
13:19 < armin> ninjin: So, if you want to make sure people understand what you mean, you refer to escaping when there is one single character escaped with \, and to a quoted string when it is inside "" or '' - keep in mind that there is no variable expansion inside '' in BASH, so '$foo' becomes a literal "\$foo" (notice the *escaped* $ inside the quoted string).
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13:20 < armin> ninjin: quote variables, usually.
13:20 < armin> ninjin: Is your question about KSH, specifically?
13:21 < ninjin> armin: If there is a POSIX solution I would love to hear it. But I will settle for ksh.
13:21 < armin> ah. :)
13:22 < ninjin> armin: What I have is find(1), output into awk(1), sort(1), and cut(1). However, at that point the paths can not be handed safely to another command.
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13:22 < ninjin> Honestly, usually I just would say "You have stupid paths, you suffer!" but this is sadly out of my control in this specific case.
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13:23 < armin> ninjin: Hmm, you could try to use find's -exec, or try to fix your script. Are you able to share it?
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13:24 < ninjin> armin: Sure, it is a oneliner. But let me create some directory hierarchy to go with it.
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13:46 < ninjin> armin: Apologies for the delays, this showcases what I am trying to do and the issue: http://0x0.st/HtFc.sh
13:46 < sonya> ninjin, there;s
13:47 < sonya> there's old trick with sed
13:47 < sonya> sec
13:47 < ninjin> sonya: Oh? I am all ears.
13:48 < sonya> example of auto creation of m3u playlists:
13:48 < sonya> find "$@" -type d  | sed 's/^/"/' | sed 's/$/"/' | sed 's/.*/cd &/' | sed 's/.*/& \&\& ls *\.{[Mm][Pp]3,[Oo][Gg][Gg],[Ff][Ll][Aa][Cc],[Mm]4[Aa]} > playlist.m3u/' | sh
13:48 < sonya> sed is using to escape and format strings to be passed to sh
13:49 < quinq> Or you just use xargs/while read loop
13:49 < sonya> the solution for a dumb task: go toevery dir and do smth
13:50 < sonya> yep, but xargs has it's own fleas, imo
13:50 < quinq> It's not a matter of opinion, it's if it solves the issue or not
13:50 < sonya> +
13:52 < ninjin> Concretely, I am trying to randomise the directory order as a way to randomise which album I am listening to. Eerie that someone would have stumbled on exactly the same escaping problem in a similar context.
13:53 < ninjin> quinq's response has me thinking that maybe I can get around it with some Knuth-style sampling instead with a while loop.
13:53 < ninjin> A sane person would surely drop into a "real" programming language. But I am a stubborn bastard.
14:00 < sonya> ninjin, awk - is a Real PL, btw… :) and the same is for sed… there's a game 'sedtris' - pure sed and art of programming..
14:02 < remiliascarlet> Up until OpenBSD 7.3, I was able to install the package `freetype`, but now I'm getting this: "Obsolete package: freetype (no longer maintained upstream)". What should I do here?
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14:06 < quinq> remiliascarlet, you should be asking the correct question instead of an XY one ;)
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14:07 < remiliascarlet> Guess I can safely ignore the above response.
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14:07 < quinq> Sure, no harm will come to you
14:08 < quinq> But also you won't progress in your problematic
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14:09 < sonya> remiliascarlet, 270:-lfreetype.30.3 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.so.30.3
14:10 < ninjin> sonya: No disagreement there. Before this (what I would thought would be a short script) distracted me I was about to look into whether I could write a patch for awk(1). ;)
14:10 < sonya> you have a 'freetype' with base installation xbase74:/usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.so.30.3
14:10 < sonya> :))
14:11 < remiliascarlet> Yeah, I just realized my Makefile was just incorrect. Now it works.
14:11 < quinq> :)
14:12 < sonya> remiliascarlet, /usr/X11R6/lib/pkgconfig/freetype2.pc
14:12 < sonya> welcoma
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14:39 < armin> ninjin: I'm not sure if I understand your issue, you can either quote a string with spaces, or you can escape the spaces individually with \ in front. No idea what your intention with the double find encapsulation is, but you very likely want to quote your command substition, e.g. "$()" instead of just $() ...
14:39 < quinq> Keep it simple, one entry per line
14:39 < armin> ninjin: Unless you know you *want* word splitting, just put your $() inside "".
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15:27 < ninjin> armin: I do think I know how to quote a string manually. It is doing it *correctly* and *robustly* for *dynamic* input that stumped me.
15:27 < ninjin> armin: I want to list the directories. Randomise their order. Then find files inside those directories. Assuming a directory contains an album this shuffles the album order, but not the tracks inside an album.
15:28 < ninjin> armin: I am also pretty sure "$()" does not resolve it. At least `find "$(find /tmp/baddirs -type d)"` is still borked for me.
15:28 < armin> ninjin: Ah now I see what you want. 
15:29 < ninjin> Honestly, I think the sane thing to do is to dig up whatever %q does and port it to sed(1), awk(1), or whatever.
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15:38 < armin> ninjin: Well there are weird things like https://metacpan.org/pod/String::ShellQuote but I think you will probably find a way of solving your initial problem that doesn't lead to wanting to properly escape random strings. :)
15:40 < armin> But hm, KSH-only, not sure, I can't think of a good solution either. :(
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15:43 < ninjin> Well, maybe this is one of those rare features that should go via Bash into POSIX one day. =)
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15:44 < ninjin> I rarely need it. Maybe once a year at most. But it is frequent enough that it causes trouble.
15:44 < quinq> ninjin, your problem is still a bit unclear
15:44 < quinq> What are you actually trying to solve?
15:44 < quinq> It's easy to loop over names
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15:45 < ninjin> quinq: http://0x0.st/HtFc.sh produces a directory structure that I find difficult to pass over iteratively unless it is somehow escaped.
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15:46 < ninjin> Happy to elaborate and even more happy to find out that I am wrong and there is another way to approach this and I never need to worry about escaping strings like this in a shell again.
15:46 < quinq> find . | while read -r entry; do whatever "$entry"; done
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15:47 < ninjin> Let me take that approach and see if I am that silly. If so, I am happily humbled.
15:47 < thrig> pray that the filenames don't have \n or whatnot in them
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15:47 < quinq> What's whatnot?
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15:48 < ninjin> thrig: At some point you just have to give up. POSIX allows filenames to be arbitrary byte sequences if I recall.
15:48 < quinq> Yes, if you expect silly input names with newlines in it, then you're screwed
15:48 < thrig> give up? find has a null delimiter option for some reason
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15:49 < ninjin> True, but the null delimiter does not play nice with at least awk(1). It is great for xargs(1) though.
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15:52 < quinq> It's easy enough to expect your names not to contain a newline
15:52 < quinq> Then you get out of all this sillyness
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15:53 < quinq> And you do expect names containing newlines (lel), then yes use libc
15:54 < quinq> s/And/& if/
15:54 < ninjin> Darn you quinq, of course that approach works. ;P
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15:57 < ninjin> Not as efficient as it calls find(1) a fair few times. But who cares.
15:58 < quinq> Not sure what “it” is, you don't necessarily have to call find several times
15:58 < quinq> You'd have to call the actual command you want to use those entries with for each one of them though, yes
15:58 < ninjin> Correct.
15:58 < quinq> But again, you don't have explain your actual use-case, so.
15:59 < ninjin> List album directories. Shuffle them. List audio file contents of directories. http://0x0.st/HtCr.sh
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16:01 < ninjin> Thanks quinq, I am still at a solid one in terms of helping you back. '^^
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16:02 < quinq> ninjin, there's no accounting/quota, I get help, you get help, you give help :D
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16:04 < ninjin> Hahaha, made me chuckle. =)
16:05 < armin> 5:1 ratio limit, tho, kekw
16:05 < armin> just like the good ol' torrent days, you leech, we breach
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16:07 < quinq> armin, you're way more recommendable, I do 3:2 :/
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16:08 < phy1729> pick() { shift $(( $1 + 1 )); something with "$1"; }; set -- */; pick $(( RANDOM % $# ));
16:09 < phy1729> Technically has modulo bias, but if you care about that, you should be using a real language.
16:09 < armin> quinq: I'm a die-hard bash-person, I admit that. It's quite hard for me to suddenly be in a world where my bash-fu is being looked weird at.
16:10 < quinq> Hummm, I fail to see the link with torrent ratio
16:10 < quinq> (maybe I misunderstood)
16:10 < armin> I'm just being weird. There was none.
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16:17  * sonya is quite happy with ksh93…
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16:20 < CosmicDJ> ksh93++
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16:50 < slowdudetommy> What's good lads
16:52 < thrig> The open steppe, a fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.
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16:55 < sonya> unicorns, rainbow and flying pink ponies…
16:57 < slowdudetommy> pink and fwuffy?
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17:04 < sonya> and horned and hoofed
17:05 < sonya> ninjin, here's one-liner:
17:06 < sonya> find DIR -type d | sed "`echo $RANDOM/32767*$(find DIR -type d | wc -l) | bc -e
17:06 < sonya> scale=1 -l | awk -F\. '{ print $1 }'`q;d"
17:06 < sonya> err
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17:08 < sonya> find DIR -type d | sed "`echo $RANDOM/32767*$(find DIR -type d | wc -l) | bc -e scale=1 -l | awk -F\. '{ print $1 }'`q;d"
17:08 < sonya> yep
17:08 < sonya> random dir from find
17:09 < slowdudetommy> guys be honest...will vmm ever support 2+ VCPUs per vm
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17:10 < sonya> slowdudetommy, imho, it depends on bsd.mp and related stuff.. as still no OpenMP support.. you've got the idea..
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17:13  * sonya is gone..
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17:33 < runelind> I remember there being issues with stability with the i225/i226 intel nics at 2.5G, does anyone know if that's still the case?
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17:39 < slowdudetommy> runelind give me like a week to answer this question. I just built an OpenBSD router with a dual i226 card and am in the process of ordering a 2.5Gb switch for it
17:39 < slowdudetommy> I feel like I did my due diligence and determined that its stable now otherwise I wouldn't have built this configuration. But the proof is in the pudding
17:40 < slowdudetommy> It works great at 1Gb speeds right now though
17:42 < runelind>  https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804173757529.html was looking at something like that. 
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18:55 < slowdudetommy> sonya I figured I'd ask since the only times I've read it discussed is years ago where people were like "come back in 2 releases"
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19:08 < brocashelm> any experiences running openbsd on nvme ssds? anything i should keep in mind about?
19:08 < brocashelm> so far, so good: everything runs blinking fast on my latitude
19:09 < brocashelm> just want to avoid any potential harm to the device
19:09 < xse> iirc there is no way to do the whole SMART stuff with nvme but other than that it works fine
19:09 < ssm_> brocashelm: I'm typing on a device that's been running openbsd with an nvme ssd for years (samsung evo 970 I think)
19:10 < brocashelm> even my user data is on it. i guess i can still move /home to a separate hdd if i'm worried
19:10 < ssm_> what on openbsd would be bad for an ssh?
19:11 < ssm_> Only thing I've changed from default is setting noatime on all my filesystems in /etc/fstab, and FFS2 isn't journaled so that isn't an issue
19:11 < brocashelm> i have heard things like lack of trim support on ssds, so i don't want to risk damaging anything
19:11 < brocashelm> oh yeah, i should update my fstab
19:12 < ssm_> most ssd's will handle wear leveling internally I believe
19:12 < Feuermagier> how exactly does library order randomization work?
19:12 < ssm_> -3s/ssh/ssd/
19:13 < brocashelm> yeah, i know what you meant to say ;)
19:15 < ssm_> brocashelm: https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/lessons-learned-about-TRIM
19:15 < avemestr> Feuermagier: The source code should be the exact implementation.
19:16 < Feuermagier> avemestr, which project is responsible for that?
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19:17 < Feuermagier> avemestr, specifically, I'm trying to find out what the rules for randomization of function-locations within libc are
19:17 < brocashelm> ssm_: thanks
19:18 < ssm_> that was back in 2011, don't know the current state
19:20 < avemestr> "Library order randomization: In rc(8), re-link libc.so, libcrypto, and ld.so on startup, placing the objects in a random order. Theo de Raadt and Robert Peichaer, May 2016, enabled by default since OpenBSD 6.0 and 6.2. "
19:20 < avemestr> Feuermagier: https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/5c3fc979130f365c611aa0f43c2dc23a6cd71501 seems to be a good starting point.
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19:22 < pardis> or just read what /etc/rc does now
19:23 < avemestr> Feuermagier: https://github.com/openbsd/src/blob/master/etc/rc < line 178 and onwards for the current implementation.
19:23 < Feuermagier> avemestr, thx!
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19:26 < tercaL> ssm_: what would 'noatime' in fstab do?
19:27 < ssm_> tercaL: not writing access times means less disk writes
19:27 < ssm_> access is a much more common operation than modification (the latter being dependant)
19:27 < tercaL> ssm_: Would that negatively affect mail servers? And disadvantage on such setup?
19:28 < ssm_> I don't think it would affect a mail server at all, at least it hasn't affected mine
19:28 < ssm_> why do you think it would?
19:29 < IcePic> some mail servers presumably recorded atime and actually used it for something, but most don't.
19:29 < tercaL> Yep.
19:30 < IcePic> also from the time when pop3/imapd, submission and smtp was all in one box named "the mail server" in singular, so you can well run one or two of them and not the one role that used atime for something
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20:00 < bagr> with an i386 livecd i could access the files on a hdd, that has been setup with amd64, the architecture wont interfere on that level?
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20:04 < IcePic> bagr: no, as long as both are of the same endianess, it should work fine
20:05 < bagr> now that is good news
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20:06 < IcePic> I'm not even sure if different endianess would cause ondisk format to change, but I think obsd will not make such guarantees, so at least within same endianess (little endian for i386/amd64) it should be perfectly safe.
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21:29 < ssm_> brocashelm: not sure how accurate a test this is for writing 1 GiB (too lazy to remount sync), `$ sync; time { dd bs=4k if=/dev/zero of=file count=262144; sync; }` == 0m01.27s real     0m00.00s user     0m00.07s system
21:30 < ssm_> had this ssd running only openbsd since around 2017 or so?
21:30 < zelest> you can use conv=fsync to dd :)
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21:31 < ssm_> 1.146 seconds
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21:33 < ssm_> in comparison it takes 1.474 seconds to write 1 GiB to my mfs partition mounted at /tmp. Not sure why it's slower to write to memory than disk, I tested multiple times; maybe something wacky in the mfs code
21:33 < ssm_> maybe the blocksize?
21:37 < thrig> I like big blocks?
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22:06 < avemestr> This isn't #lego.
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22:20 < quinq> Yes, this is Duplo
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22:25 < avemestr> :-)
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23:11 -!- steeznson_ [~user@195.213.97.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:12 -!- megaTherion [~therion@unix.io] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:12 -!- megaTherion [~therion@unix.io] has joined #openbsd
23:14 -!- deacon426 [~hicks@user/deacon426] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:14 -!- deacon426 [~hicks@user/deacon426] has joined #openbsd
23:18 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has joined #openbsd
23:20 -!- markmcb [~markmcb@173.205.93.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:22 -!- jlavsund [~jlavsund@2.67.241.170.mobile.tre.se] has joined #openbsd
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23:24 -!- carbonfiber [uid513797@id-513797.uxbridge.irccloud.com] has joined #openbsd
23:33 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@c-174-60-107-126.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd
23:35 -!- sucy [~sucy@modemcable045.172-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:38 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@c-174-60-107-126.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:38 -!- gawen [~gawen@user/gawen] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:39 -!- gawen [~gawen@user/gawen] has joined #openbsd
23:42 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd
23:43 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:45 -!- daru [~daru@185.209.196.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:45 -!- format_c [~format_c@2a02:b98:f181:4094:f550:7488:2d5:5ffa] has joined #openbsd
23:45 -!- jlavsund [~jlavsund@2.67.241.170.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:49 -!- RayS [~raysl@sdf-1.vm.tornadovps.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:49 -!- RayS [~raysl@sdf-1.vm.tornadovps.net] has joined #openbsd
23:51 -!- daru [~daru@185.209.196.188] has joined #openbsd
23:52 -!- utkojhamela [~utkojhame@37.111.216.117] has joined #openbsd
23:54 -!- cgdae_ [~cgdae@razumovsky.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
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23:57 -!- psydroid [~psydroid@user/psydroid] has joined #openbsd
23:58 -!- c1gar [~c1gar@user/c1gar] has joined #openbsd
--- Log closed Sun Nov 12 00:00:14 2023