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06:33 < ssm_> so who's gonna put the missing e at the end of the channel topic
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06:39 < IcePic> perhaps it hit the limit there
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06:44 < brocashelm> ssm_: whoever has op rights, i guess
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07:02 < quinq> We can get rid of the double space before the project website URL
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08:57 < sodiew> hi, i have a loongson device, i wanna full disk encrypt  it but https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html this doc shows openbsd FDE only support amd64, arm64, i386, riscv64, sparc64, it's means impossible to setup fde on my device?
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09:03 < IcePic> sodiew: It might mean the bootblocks will not be able to unlock the rootdrive, so you would have to have a smallish part unencrypted and then put the secrets into one of the other partitions where you can encrypt
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09:10 < sodiew> oh, AFDE lol, how can I do this, I need a which unencrypted kernel part?
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09:40 < sodiew> and, another interesting things, the installation guide https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/loongson/INSTALL.loongson said
09:40 < sodiew> use pub/OpenBSD/7.4/packages/mips64el/ to install pre-compiled packages, but openbsd only host mips64 for octeon device lol
09:40 < sodiew> even this path do not exist
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09:47 < IcePic> sodiew: or, the package builds are not done, if they are ongoing
09:47 < IcePic> the slower arches get added when/if they finish
09:48 < IcePic> I guess too few mips64el machines are available, 7.0 seems to be the last release with pre-built pkgs for them
09:49 < markand> wut, wayland empowering OpenBSD 
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09:50 < schillingklaus> I boycott wayland
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09:55 < markand> I'd say I boycott wayland, there are things I like others I don't
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09:55 < markand> the bad thing is that writing a compositor requires to write half of the X server 
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11:03 < brocashelm> fuck wayshitland
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13:46  * sonya has a dream about gtk2 browser in packages (firefox-45.9.0esr or seamonkey-2.48/2.49.?)
13:48  * sonya is failed to build from source..
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14:08 < zxrom> Is anyone using OpenBSD with NVIDIA graphics?
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14:21 < oldlaptop> zxrom: It's not at all a good idea; most NVIDIA hardware is unsupported except through vesa(4) or (on EFI machines) efifb(4). Some ancient stuff is nominally supported by nv(4), but even in those cases you really want to find something else. (Most of linuxland stopped shipping nv(4) a long time ago.)
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14:24 < oldlaptop> As a practical matter, almost anything under the "radeon" name should have reasonably complete 3D support out of the box (newer ones are a bit shakier still), and actual Intel iGPUs should also work (generally a bit more reliably); in both cases the very newest stuff at any given time might either not be supported yet or might need snapshots/-current.
14:24 < oldlaptop> (The PowerVR GPUs intel licenses (licensed?) for some atom products are IIRC still not supported.)
14:24 < eea> i have been quite pleased with the intel arc770 
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14:30 < zxrom> oldlaptop, Thanks.
14:31  * sonya is galvanising ancient relics: SIS(0): Using SiS300/315/330/340 series HW Xv … no complains … ever… :)
14:32 < oldlaptop> are those drivers even in-tree anymore?
14:32 < sonya> nope
14:32 < oldlaptop> a bunch of the ancient userland drivers got tedued some time ago
14:32 < sonya> yep
14:33 < sonya> building here.. as in good'ol days.. :)
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14:41 < trench> anyone know why openbsd hasn't added 4.97 of exim yet?
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14:42 < renaud> there is a submitted port in ports@
14:43 < renaud> exim 4.97 won't make it into -stable as it needs new packages
14:43 < renaud> but, to be very honest, you should look into alternatives to exim as their devs have stated they won't really look into LibreSSL support anymore
14:44 < oldlaptop> I've heard rumors OpenBSD may actually come with an MTA in the base system
14:46 < cyrax> smth like smtpd or so.. not sure
14:46 < renaud> you will also need devel/p5-File-FcntlLock to get exim 4.97   https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=169960116326000&w=2
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14:48 < renaud> exim 4.97: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=169951985805925&w=2
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14:49 < renaud> OpenSMTPD cannoot really replace all the features of exim, but, in most cases, it's sufficient to send/receive mails with spam filtering
14:49 < renaud> besides, we had to turn off some exim features in 4.96+
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14:54 < eea> now i am curious.. what can opensmtpd not do as an MTA?
14:54 < eea> vs exim
14:56 < IcePic> hand out root accounts on your mailserver? ;)
14:57 < renaud> ectually, exim can do almost everything, that's where its power lies, but that's also why the vulnerabilities found in it are so bad
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15:09 < markand> oldlaptop, oh you got one, I wanted one but it's out of stock in many places 
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15:48 < oldlaptop> markand: ?
15:49 < Bradipo> OpenBSD+OpenSMTPD is out of stock.
15:49 < Bradipo> At least that's what I interpreted his comment to mean.
15:49 < Bradipo> A kind of nerdy joke.
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15:50 < oldlaptop> Awful hard to find the installation disks since 6.0
15:50 < Bradipo> I guess it really is true that BSD is dying.
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15:51 < sonya> DYT.. it always been like that..
15:51 < markand> oldlaptop, intel arc 770
15:51 < sonya> DIY
15:52 < oldlaptop> Ah. I think you :ed the wrong nick :)
15:52 < markand> oh sorry!
15:52  * oldlaptop only has radeons and <= foo bridge intel integrated stuff
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15:53 < markand> when my macbook pro 2020 gets no longer updated, I'll OpenBSDize as well
15:54 -!- pra is now known as pr-asadi
15:54  * sonya had radeon too… until it burned out a week after end of warranty… 
15:55 < markand> heh, always like this
15:55 < markand> my mbp touchbar broke 1 month after warranty and my nexus 5x too. warranty malediction I guess
15:56  * sonya gas no complains… ever… really… but a great desire of "Vulgar Display Of Power" for some..
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15:57 < bitchin> hi
15:57 < sonya> ^has
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16:41 < sysfu> I'm trying to install the python package simplebot-tgchan via 'pip install --user simplebot-tgchan' command. Gives me an error saying it cannot find the deltachat package. Any troubleshooting suggestions? Same commond works on a gentoo linux desktop system.
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17:25 < quinq> sysfu, maybe you're using the wrong pip
17:25 < quinq> (isn't pip supposed to work anywhere, wasn't that the whole purpose of that tool?)
17:26 < thrig> ads: it works everywhere! reality: it's broken in wacky ways everywhere
17:26 < quinq> :D
17:26 < sysfu> quinq, I'm using py3-pip-23.2.1
17:26 < quinq> And is simplebot-tgchan available for python3?
17:27 < sysfu> I'm assuming that whatever pip is pulling its packages from is lacking the deltachat pkg, and maybe I could direct it to use another server.
17:27 < sysfu> quinq, yes it is, like I said in original post the same command works on gentoo w/py3 no issues.
17:28 < quinq> Well, you said “the same command”, not “the same python version”
17:28 < quinq> But ok
17:28 < quinq> (“Same commond” actually, but that werks ;))
17:29 < quinq> wth
17:29 < quinq> This deltachat is actually a rust code disguised in python?
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17:30 < quinq> No wonder it won't work
17:30 < quinq> This must be a linux-only target
17:30 < thrig> crouching tiger, hidden LLVM dep
17:30 < quinq> https://pypi.org/project/deltachat/
17:30 < quinq> “Installing pre-built packages (Linux-only)”
17:30 < quinq> Praise Rust portability.
17:32 < thrig> https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/issues/5771 was a pretty funny read
17:35 < sysfu_> quinq, gentoo system: Python 3.11.5   OpeBSD system: Python 3.10.13
17:36 < quinq> Yeah, that will not magically build rust programs though
17:36 < sysfu_> quinq, deltachat is primarily rust, that is my understandig.
17:36 < quinq> That's mine too, now
17:36 < sysfu_> quinq, loonix only target explanation highly likely.
17:37 < quinq> :(
17:37 < sysfu_> Looks like I'll have to compile the rust bindings myself, thanks for the clue!
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17:39 < quinq> Good luck!
17:40 < quinq> oops
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19:40  * thrig wonders if ghostscript-10.02.1 broke lilypond builds
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20:40 < Feuermagier> is there any section of the bsd-libc mapped into memory that shows the offsets to the (randomly ordered) functions contained in libc?
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20:47 < phy1729> There are sections in the object file that the linker needs, but leaving those mapped seems unwise as it'd help defeat the randomization
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20:49 < brocashelm> bradipo: openbsd is what i use alongside linux. anything i can do on openbsd well, i prefer openbsd, but linux for the more convoluted messes of gnu code
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20:52 < ssm_> linux is for videogames. openbsd is for playing video games hosted on linux using games/moonlight-qt
20:53 < ssm_> which I also just submitted a port for the latest version for, coincidentally
20:53 < brocashelm> yeah, multilib is allowed on linux
20:53 < brocashelm> so you can get pcsx2 and wine working
20:54 < brocashelm> but also freebsd and even netbsd support those
20:56 < Bradipo> Is there any document that explains the relayd logs?
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21:05 < Bradipo> Here's an example: https://filebin.net/fqsm3v0s9ywau0j1
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21:05 < Bradipo> Why does relayd sometimes log dozens of GET POST on a single line for example?
21:05 < Bradipo> Sometimes it logs just one.
21:05 < Bradipo> What does "session X (Y active)" mean?
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21:13 < fifihyperbola> hey, how do I boot into kde on openbsd?
21:13 < uwharrie> KDE isn't fully supported on OpenBSD
21:14 -!- zetef_ [~quassel@5.2.182.98] has joined #openbsd
21:14 < ssm_> fifihyperbola: KDE desktop hasn't been supported since KDE3 on openbsd I believe
21:14 -!- zetef [~quassel@95.77.17.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
21:14 < brocashelm> if you need qt, you could give lxqt a shot
21:15 -!- jlavsund [~jlavsund@2.71.128.213.mobile.tre.se] has joined #openbsd
21:15 < avemestr> There's a ton of KDE apps available. It's "just" Plasma that is missing.
21:16 -!- Zylone [~Zylone@2001:19f0:6401:c71:a023:ebc2:9b83:586c] has quit [Server closed connection]
21:16 < avemestr> https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=kde&path=&pkgname=&category=&maintainer=
21:16 -!- Zylone [~Zylone@zylone.org] has joined #openbsd
21:16 < fifihyperbola> oh okay, I installed kde23 but I don't know how to run it
21:17 < avemestr> That's a meta package that installs "all" KDE applications.
21:18 < avemestr> You're only missing the desktop environment (Plasma)...
21:18 < fifihyperbola>  aa
21:18 < fifihyperbola> right
21:18 < fifihyperbola> can I use openbox/kde?
21:18 < brocashelm> openbox can be used standalone or with another de
21:20 < fifihyperbola> ok
21:20 < fifihyperbola> ok, thanks :)
21:21 < avemestr> fifihyperbola: The problem is Wayland. When that works, there's a better chance you'll see KDE proper on OpenBsD.
21:21 < Bradipo> KDE only works with Wayland?
21:21 < fifihyperbola> ok, cool :)
21:24 < avemestr> Bradipo: As the dude that has done the most work on getting KDE on OpenBSD in recent years: "Let’s move on to the topic of KDE Plasma. The Plasma desktop and some other KDE applications have a strong dependence on the Wayland. As long as there is no Wayland under OpenBSD, there will also be no KDE Plasma."
21:24 -!- zimmer [~zimmer@user/zimmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:24 < avemestr> - Rafael Sadowski
21:25 < Bradipo> Ok, well, I'm not a big fan of KDE anyway, though they have had some good programs.
21:25 < avemestr> Agree.
21:25 < fifihyperbola> I enjoyed using kde plasma on arch linux back in a day
21:25 < avemestr> But when adding one of the applications... one fears that the entire universe is downloaded to the computer..
21:25 < Bradipo> KDE was always too _heavy_ for me.
21:25 < Bradipo> Yep.
21:27 < fifihyperbola> :P
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21:30 < brocashelm> i never liked kde
21:30 < brocashelm> although tde is interesting
21:31  * sonya build WindowMaker-0.96, managed to get a dynamic menues and put a cherry on the cake by installing nvi-iconv…
21:31 < topcat001> <3
21:31 < brocashelm> i really don't want wayland anyway
21:31 < brocashelm> let linux eat that up
21:32 < brocashelm> xenocara is all we need
21:32 < topcat001> sonya: I have used Next (monochrome next box in uni)
21:32 < topcat001> really beautiful
21:32 < sonya> nice..
21:33 < topcat001> Even on Linux I use X as much as I can. I have a sway setup for testing.
21:33 < topcat001> BSDs are all on X. I use Open and Free.
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21:34 < echelon> no wayland?
21:34 < sonya> btw, there's tde (trinity desktop) https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ - ongoing dev of kde3
21:35 < topcat001> echelon: not on my bsds. I feel no need.
21:35 < brocashelm>  pkg_delete wayland
21:36 < topcat001> I'm so glad wmaker is still in active dev; it's beautiful
21:37 < sonya> +1 for X11… 0.96 has added feature of mouse actions for screen corners - use'em with 'wmctrl'
21:37 < topcat001> sonya: what is your impression of 0.96 on obsd?
21:37 < topcat001> I will build it as well :)
21:38 < sonya> super stable and flawless… but don't pull the release tarball
21:38 < brocashelm> Wayland Isn't Going to Save The Linux Desktop https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html
21:39 < phy1729> brocashelm: can you take your wayland bashing elsewhere
21:39 < sonya> they missed home detection and broke history of Run command… it's corrected
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21:40 < sonya> wmaker-crm-93b0493.tar.gz - that's what needed to build WM-0.96
21:40 < avemestr> brocashelm: The corporations deciding the direction of Linux doesn't care.
21:40 < sonya> or clone the latest git
21:42 < avemestr> brocashelm: Also, there's work being done on getting Wayland on OpenBSD. It is where the wind blows.
21:42 < sonya> https://clbin.com/b19uW  results of my config (all enabled)
21:43 < brocashelm> avemestr: yeah, i saw that back in july
21:47 < topcat001> sonya: cool ty
21:48 < topcat001> In recent macos the menus blink once instead of three times
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21:54 < Feuermagier> phy1729, that's exactly what I'm trying to do right now (bypassing the randomization with an arbitrary read) - but I'm not sure what section I'd need to read to bypass the randomization
21:55 < phy1729> Why do you want to bypass randomization?
21:55 < Feuermagier> phy1729, CTF-challenge
21:55 < phy1729> OpenBSD specific?
21:55 < Feuermagier> yep :)
21:56 < avemestr> Another stein incoming!
21:56 < Feuermagier> I found a readable section that contains the strings that identify object files within the libc
21:56 < Feuermagier> but that only gives me a rough order
22:01 < Feuermagier> it's also interesting that BSD maps some sections as executable only (so no read), which further increases the difficulty
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22:03 < avemestr> Feuermagier: Do you know there's a solution to what you're trying to do?
22:03 < echelon> will kernel randomization still work if you're booting from a read-only medium?
22:04 < echelon> while using resflash for instance
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22:04 < avemestr> Feuermagier: In other words: Is it some kind of exercise or some real-world attempt of finding a vulnerability?
22:04 < Feuermagier> avemestr, essentially this is the part where I'm stuck at. I know that there's a solution and I'm mostly done with my exploit. I now need to find the address of system(), as well as the address of my ROP gadget within libc.
22:05 < Feuermagier> but BSD tries its best to make this really hard by passing the .o files to the linker in a random order at every boot
22:07 < sonya> echelon, if / is ro, then randomised kernel will not be stored back as /bsd (in theory), and /bsd.booted will be equal to /bsd
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22:07 < phy1729> If you're on the box, you can read libc.so / use objdump rather than try and find it mapped in memory somewhere
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22:07 < Feuermagier> phy1729, I only have an arbitrary write (so I can read memory pages marked as read)
22:08 < Feuermagier> notably I can not dump the actual executable part of libc (because that's marked as executable only)
22:08 < Feuermagier> this is how libc is mapped into memory: https://bpa.st/D6RA
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22:09 < Feuermagier> (aslr ofc changes this with every run, but the order of functions remains the same, as that's randomized at boot)
22:10 < echelon> sonya: thanks
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22:15 < sonya> echelon, np… it's easy to control KARL (kernel randomisation) by # > /var/db/kernel.SHA256 (empty file) and restore by # sha256 -h /var/db/kernel.SHA256 /bsd (as root)
22:16 < sonya> # cat /usr/share/relink/kernel/GENERIC/relink.log   - to see current state
22:16 < echelon> i wonder if resfash was written before karl was introduced
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22:16 < echelon> or was tested on it after
22:17 -!- gbowne1 [~gbowne1@97.113.91.0] has joined #openbsd
22:17 < echelon> resflash*
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22:18 < sonya> who knows.. need to go, bb…
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23:21 < ssm_> seems no qtwebengine browsers are pledged
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23:29 < fro> you should send some patches
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23:35 < bitchin> hey, silly question. does openbsd by default keep shell history?
23:36 < Bradipo> Not between sessions.
23:36 < Bradipo> History is retained until you logout of the shell.
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23:36 < bitchin> ah cool
23:36 < bitchin> thought there was compromise :D
23:37 < ssm_> bitchin: read about HISTFILE in ksh(1)
23:37  * bitchin nods
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 14 00:00:07 2023