--- Log opened Tue Dec 05 00:00:31 2023
--- Day changed Tue Dec 05 2023
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00:36 < jb1277976> Question. I'm going to install openbsd on another laptop but it doesn't come with Intel firmware what is the best way to get firmware working so I can install ? Or can I install everything from USB stick ?
00:37 < thrig> what happened when you installed openbsd?
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00:43 < zwr> jb1277976: plug in a cable. or USB tether a phone. or https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#WifiOnly. Or download the firmware to an external storage device
00:44 < zwr> you could to add a new partition to the USB stick with the installer and download the firmware there
00:46 < jb1277976> zwr so at the install right I went to shell downloaded firmware to a fat32 disk said it was s2 I did mount -t msdos /dev/s2 /mnt and it was saying device wasn't configured or something I forgot. Plus fw_uodate was a unknown command . Yes I'm a noob at openbsd but I was just wondering I was doing wrong
00:47 < jb1277976> fw_update*
00:47 < jb1277976> Do I ne d to install first before I can use fw_update ?
00:48 < jb1277976> I need*
00:48 < zwr> the installer doesn't have all the software in OpenBSD, do it after install
00:48 < sibiria> jb1277976: yes, and you can install firmware afterwards. simplest is to write the install image to your USB stick
00:48 < jb1277976> Aw ok
00:48 < sibiria> do a complete install, then worry about firmware after that's done
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00:52 < jb1277976> Lastly can I do a full install without Internet i should be able to check disk and then press enter on the and/7.4 psth right sorry not at home at glasses place with family 
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00:56 < sibiria> yes you can - write the install image (install74.img) to your usb stick
00:57 < sibiria> it contains everything and no internet access will be required
00:57 < sibiria> (excluding firmware)
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01:11 < Bradipo> Sometimes, firmware must be installed during install to avoid a kernel crash...
01:12 < Bradipo> I have an AMD card that is supported but 7.4 crashes (post install) on it if the firmware cannot be downloaded during install.
01:12 < Bradipo> Sorry, not AMD, Radeon.
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01:18 < jb1277976> Thanks all. I'm learning
01:21 < jb1277976> I swear Linux is a handicap. And you get bored quick. I been on freebsd for three past month and loved it. I initially came to openbsd day before yesterday cause my Chromebook i like could get sound working but I get a input/output error so had to install to and older Acer. Works good. Going to install to a little better laptop and try to get
01:21 < jb1277976> everything working so it's a complete system. I love New things cause all you can do is get better then help out to give back
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03:05 < lester29> is it necessary to run syspatch before sysupgrade?
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03:15 < zwr> no
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03:19 < phy1729> Assuming you're on stable, you should run syspatch after sysupgrade. Before is pretty pointless.
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04:01 < ponycat> what if sysupgrade needs to be patched?
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04:37 < kodcode> Good morning all...
04:39 < ssm_> ponycat: this was actually a thing that happened a release or two ago I think, so it was a real issue
04:39 < ssm_> either syspatch or sysupgrade was borked in some way, don't remember
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09:52 < Posterdati> hi
09:52 < Posterdati> please help, where I can get the official OpenBSD logo pic? Thanks!
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10:01 < IcePic> Posterdati: check the www cvs repo?
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10:02 < Posterdati> IcePic: ok, thanks
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12:07 < rIMpossib1e> ÃWhich VPS providers support OpenBSD besides openbsd.amsterdam? With locations in France and Germany?
12:08 < rIMpossib1e> AND: below 60 Euro per year. Need it only for IKEv2 gateways and circumventing geoblocking
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12:09 < IcePic> I think the list of vps providers that can run obsd is far larger than the ones that say they explicitly support it
12:09 < rIMpossib1e> Hey IcePic :)
12:10 < renaud> vultr supports OpenBSD
12:10 < Lucas6023> rIMpossib1e: Hetzner ticks all the boxes except France
12:10 < rIMpossib1e> renaud: Do they have locations in DE?
12:10 < renaud> but, I have never found any VPS which installs OpenBSD with a correct partition table
12:10 < renaud> rIMpossib1e: yes
12:10 < rIMpossib1e> OVHcloud supports only Linux, did not see OpenBSD
12:10 < renaud> all VPS are generally with one big /, and that's it
12:11 < rIMpossib1e> OK, thank you guys, will further investigate ...
12:11 < renaud> so, even if they support it, it's generally a better idea to reinstall
12:12 < rIMpossib1e> renaud: That's what I wanted to do .... ;)
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12:20 < renaud> aruba.it doesn't support it explicitely, but since it's vmware, it runs quite fine.
12:21 < renaud> available in IT,CZ,FR,DE,UK,PL
12:21 < rIMpossib1e> By the way: Did anyone recognize, that the window gravity in xwininfo(1) and xprop(1) differs. xprop is right, xwininfo seems to be wrong...
12:21 < rIMpossib1e> renaud: I will have a look FR/PL looks good :)
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12:21 < betabug> the gravity of the situation escaped me
12:23 < renaud> rIMpossib1e: I have a VM there which is running without issues since 2017
12:26 < sibiria> rIMpossib1e: you can run openbsd on scaleway (france) but there's some manual work involved. not entirely recommended except as last resort
12:27 < renaud> also scaleway change its pricing every X of the month
12:27 < rIMpossib1e> renaud: seems trustworthy, I will fire one up
12:27 < rIMpossib1e> sibiria: Naaah ;)
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12:27 < renaud> I had 2 VMs on scaleway, and the price did triple in 2 years
12:28 < rIMpossib1e> We should convice Mischa to offer more locations ;)
12:28 < rIMpossib1e> His service is the best, reacts really, really fast
12:28 < renaud> you can also use oracle cloud free, but it's not always fast or reliable
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12:37 < rrmeo> oracle cloud will basically do everything it can to deny you a free tier
12:37 < rIMpossib1e> renaud: Naah, I am not a big fan of oracle
12:38 < rIMpossib1e> rrmeo: always something with "free" services, I like to pay and get a reliable service
12:38 < sibiria> no you just have to upgrade to paid tenancy, and you won't have to worry about your Always Free tier resources being reallocated to another customer
12:39 < renaud> well, that's not completely true
12:39 < rrmeo> sibiria: in my case it basically implies i can't have nice things because i'm in east europe
12:39 < rrmeo> it doesnt say so outright
12:39 < renaud> if you shut down a VM, there are chances it will be reallocated to someone else and that you won't be able to power it on
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12:39 < sibiria> yes but i'm talking about having it snatched from you while running
12:39 < rrmeo> wont be surprised in the least
12:39 < rIMpossib1e> renaud: hahaha, good one
12:39 < sibiria> every account of this that i've read about have been from free tier customers, never paid tenancy
12:40 < sibiria> i've been on a paid tenancy for $0.00/mo for 14 months now almost
12:42 < sibiria> rrmeo: i'm sure you can afford $0.00/mo, and the temporary $100 verification charge for upgrading
12:43 < rrmeo> sibiria: i can also afford normative prices on good people hostings without being an enabler to oracle
12:44 < sibiria> if "righteous" computing is a concern just go with openbsd.amsterdam. everyone else really is a crook one way or the other
12:44 < renaud> I run my -current ports machine on oracle cloud, but it's more or less a disposable VM.
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12:45 < rrmeo> pretty much yeah
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15:25 < rIMpossib1e> Has anyone a mobile network card from Quectel and tried to compile QFirehose? It is only available for Linux or Android. Which Linux distribution is best for using over console when started from a usb stick? TinyLinux seems not to work, I've set parameters for serial, it shows some boot msgs and after 'login on root on tty1' it is stuck (serial console is tty0)
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15:28 < rIMpossib1e> But nice point: Quectel delivers the whole source code for its updater. Even though the firmware files itselves are closed source
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15:29 < rIMpossible> Forgot to mention, device is an apu2, so only possible over console when not installing it
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15:54 < thyssentishman> rIMpossible: I can recommend https://1984.hosting/
15:55 < thyssentishman> Their servers are in Iceland
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15:56 < thyssentishman> and they provide OpenBSD images for their VPS' but I think you can also upload your own
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16:09 < rIMpossible> thyssentishman: Sounds good, I will give it a try, as well
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16:34 < Zyxer> Hi
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16:38 < Zyxer> Incase anyone remembers when I asked about help debugging murmurd server, where we tested connection with tcpdump and the mumble client request did reach the server.  I found the issue
16:39 < Zyxer> The issue is a bug on the murmur server version I am on (no idea if it is issue on newest version or at what version it started)
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16:40 < Zyxer> Apparently if it is unset, it claims to default to "all available addresses" or something, and the murmur log says it listens to 0.0.0.0. However, I had to manually set it to 0.0.0.0
16:41 < Zyxer> If unset it listens to 127.0.0.1, instead of 0.0.0.0, despite log saying 0.0.0.0
16:41 < Bradipo> Wow, good find.
16:41 < Bradipo> But I think it's sensible to default to 127.0.0.1 if not defined.
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16:43 < Zyxer> Yes, but the comment in the .ini file says it will default to listen to all available addresses. And log says 0.0.0.0. So while it is sensible, the logs and documentation says 0.0.0.0. 
16:44 < Bradipo> Yeah, documentation bug likely.
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16:46 < vortexx> rIMpossible: exascale have datacenters in Germany and provide OpenBSD support
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16:50 < Zyxer> Oh, btw, how do I make tls certs safely readable? Since this is real issue that is bad to get wrong routine for I want to double check. Like, do I make a tls group that I give read access for all the certs and cert paths including the private.key?
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16:52 < sibiria> you can store them in a location related directly to the application needing them, with their ownership, or you can make /etc/ssl/private world-readable and take care to not make the contents in there world-readable
16:52 < sibiria> if you have someone on your server who can take a look at the file listing in /etc/ssl/private you have bigger worries. just make sure your private keys aren't world-readable
16:56 < sibiria> whatever you pick, don't make a tls group which has access to all the contents
16:56 < Zyxer> As a temporary messure I made certs and all readable by all, started daemon, then returne3d the permissions to original value
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16:58 < Bradipo> Well, public certificates can be readable by all, sure.
16:58 < sibiria> the full chains is not sensitive. only the private keys are
16:59 < sibiria> chain*
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17:01 < sibiria> i personally keep /etc/ssl/private world-readable, and keys root:wheel-owned with 0600 perms
17:02 < sibiria> root:wheel-owned or whatever more local to the application, if anything
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17:24 < seninha> Hi, does mailing list service removes html attachments?
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17:25 < seninha> (or maybe i am being forgetful and accidentally an attachment again)
17:25 < seninha> sent to ports@ btw
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17:29 < sibiria> it should. else you could generate insane amounts of traffic to subscribers and for the host
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17:30 < sibiria> and potentially make them guilty of possessing illegal material etc.
17:30  * thrig recalls a 5 meg webpage that had about 4000 characters of actual content in it
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17:31 < seninha> oof
17:31 < sibiria> at 5 megs surely it had enough splendid frameworks to make those 4000 characters extra Rich and Dynamic
17:31 < thrig> custom font, javascript jazz, etc
17:32 < sibiria> beautiful. just like The Lord intended
17:32 < seninha> it's just a manifest file
17:32 < thrig> probably one could devise a bloat factor metric
17:32 < seninha> can be accessed from the distfile
17:32 < sibiria> if ( $just_manifest_attachment ) ...;
17:33 < seninha> hue
17:33 < seninha> btw
17:34 < jb1277976> Are there devs here,?
17:34 < seninha> here's the mail, i have no idea whether ${PERMIT_PACKAGE} should be Yes:
17:34 < seninha> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=170179092101462&w=2
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17:35 < seninha> dist is under a custom limited license
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17:36 < seninha> i could ask at #fsf but they'll probably try to convert me to GPLv3
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17:38 < seninha> also, the port uses a patch i wrote with the fresh new sysctl(2)'s hw.ucomnames, added in 7.4 (shiny new stuff, prone to break)
17:44 < rIMpossible> vortexx: Thank you. And it is called exOscale ;)
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18:18 < vortexx> rIMpossible: yep sorry about the mispelling
18:20 < rIMpossible> vortexx: exascale are superfast servers, again what learned, while exoscale.ch is seemingly a provider for OpenBSD
18:20 < rIMpossible> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exascale_computing
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18:38 < jb1277976> What are some good terminal emulators. gnome-terminal is partial installed and so is xfce4-terminal
18:38 < jb1277976> ?
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18:38 < uwharrie> xterm
18:38 < jb1277976> uwharrie so plain
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18:39 < thrig> st, though that one you'll have to patch out colors and other stuff
18:39 < uwharrie> if you've got more requirements than good terminal emulation support, you'll get better recommendations then
18:39 < Bradipo> I've tried various terminals over the years.  I always just settle on xterm.
18:39 < jb1277976> ok
18:39 < jb1277976> let me see how i can customize it then
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19:03 < meena> whyyyyy doesn't OpenBSD have sysctlbyname()?
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19:05 < thrig> because nobody wrote it
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19:07 < sibiria> THEN YOU'D BEST GET GOING, PRIVATE
19:08 < thrig> not with the major malfunctions I've got going on here
19:08 < thrig> e.g. why isn't this macro doing what I want, etc
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19:30 < avemestr> jb1277976: urxvt is fine as well. Aka. rxvt-unicode.
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19:35 < phy1729> xterm is in base and uses pledge and unveil
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19:44 < thrig> ... probably should pledge up my fork of st ... tuits ...
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19:52 < quinq> thrig, st is already pledged, isn't it?
19:53 < quinq> since 2018 yeah
19:57 < thrig> not my fork, which is not the port version
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20:08 < jb1277976> hey all. sound isn't working at all. on my first laptop i did sound i followed the multimedia guide easily for some reason this one isn't working. freebsd sound worked perfect. any ideas ?
20:08 < thrig> dmesg, etc
20:09 < jb1277976> ok
20:09 < jb1277976> really quick i did this before you said that https://dpaste.org/uVK1p
20:09 < jb1277976> let me get dmesg
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20:11 < jb1277976> thrig http://termbin.com/z07r
20:11 < uwharrie> looks like you're trying to type mixcerctl commands into ksh, that's not going to work
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20:12 < jb1277976> do i need a new shell ?
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20:13 < Bradipo> jb1277976: No, ksh doesn't know what "record.source-mic" is.
20:13 < Bradipo> Notis that it says "ksh: record.source-mic: not found"
20:14 < jb1277976> yea
20:14 < Bradipo> Changing shells won't fix that...
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20:15 < sibiria> the stuff you're trying to run as executable files are actually config options for the sound system. they belong in a config file
20:15 < jb1277976> oh
20:16 < jb1277976>  /etc/mixerctl.conf ?
20:17 < sibiria> yes
20:21 < dqk> you can also try them with mixerctl beforehand to make sure it will work the way you want
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20:24 < jb1277976> Thanks everything is working
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20:32 < meena> anyway, i rewrote my code to use sysctl(), so "all" "is" "good" "now"
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20:36 < fikran> Hi all! I see this step to get the source for 7.4, but wondering if I can use git?
20:36 < fikran> $ cvs -qd anoncvs@anoncvs.example.org:/cvs checkout -rOPENBSD_7_4 -P src
20:37 < thrig> can you use git?
20:37 < uwharrie> fikran: you can use git to grab a clone, but it won't be from the official mirror
20:37 < fikran> i just found a server, no worries
20:37 < fikran> lets see if this works...
20:39 < fikran> ssh: connect to host anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org port 22: Operation timed out
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20:39 < fikran> I was running it against this host: anoncvs.ca.openbsd.org
20:39 < uwharrie> that's a CVS host, not a Git host
20:40 < fikran> yeah, excuse me. I jumped back to CVS
20:40 < phy1729> There's a mirror at github.com/openbsd/src though it doesn't have release tags
20:40 < uwharrie> is the Canadian server the closest to you geographically?
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20:41 < fikran> no, DC area, northern VA
20:43 < uwharrie> then you may want to aim at the one in NYC https://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html#CVSROOT
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21:46 < jb1277976>  Do on linux and freebsd i would install drivers, cups and avahi and i could find network printers. does openbsd have that ? i tried the other day but couldn't get anything working. ups runs fine
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21:49 < uwharrie> jb1277976: https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=cups&category=&maintainer= https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=avahi&category=&maintainer= https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=foomatic&category=&maintainer= https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=gutenprint&category=&maintainer=
21:49 < echelon> avahi seems to be in ports
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21:50 < echelon> i don't know if cups needs any additional integrations to work with avahi
21:51 < uwharrie> it's covered in the cups README
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22:03 < fifihyperbola> hey, what was the command to check the size of each directory?
22:03 < fifihyperbola> and free space, not df -h
22:03 < uwharrie> du(1)?
22:03 < fifihyperbola> ok
22:04 < fifihyperbola> yes, thanks :)
22:04 < fifihyperbola> that's the one :)
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22:13 < jb1277976> Thanks uwharrie Printer Sharing using mDNS
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22:16 < jb1277976> im building a list of bookmarks right now. i got openbsd.org the whole FAQ the manpages openbsdhandbook openports thats what i got right now
22:16 < jb1277976> the mailing list
22:22 < pardis> you don't want openbsdhandbook on there
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22:22 < pardis> it has plenty of bad advice mixed in with the good
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22:31 < seninha> separating the bad from the good is left as an exercise for the reader
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22:34 < jb1277976> dam i will x that one out
22:35 < jb1277976> im learning stuff as i go. like the last restort is to google your issue with site:openbsd.org or problemhere openbsd
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22:40 < Code_Bleu> I'm trying to get 4 service files to start at boot and in order, but am not having any luck.  These service files are basically just executing some cloud-init commands ( ex. cloud-init init -l ).  The execution of the cloud-init commands will not stay running, therefore the service itself wont stay running ( expected )
22:40 < Code_Bleu> my issue: how can i setup the services in such a way that each of the 4 services will run at boot and run in order after the previous one completes?  
22:42 < Code_Bleu> I think the whole REQUIRE in the service file expects the service to be running, which it is not.  If i take that out and just have the order in pkg_scripts=, I believe it is just spam running the services and doesn't work because they are not being executed until completion for each one before the other one starts.
22:42 < Bradipo> Code_Bleu: https://man.openbsd.org/rc.d#DESCRIPTION
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22:43 < Code_Bleu> Thanks Bradipo:  I have been trying to read man pages and testing things out, but was wondering if someone had more detail as to what I can try.
22:44 < uwharrie> sounds more like a job for something with better service health checks and dependency mangement like runit
22:45 < Bradipo> Haha, well, if it's alternatives, my go to service manager is daemontools.
22:46 < pardis> rc.d is explicitly not for things that don't stay running
22:47 < pardis> at least one rc.d script in ports has been removed for this reason (anacron)
22:47 < phy1729> Do these things need to run every boot or just the first one?
22:47 < uwharrie> rc is more of a classic start/stop independent services type system, not for things that die the second something they need isn't there or that require complicated checks to determine if they're "running"
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22:53 < Code_Bleu> phy1729: I don't think they need to be ran each boot, but cloud-init itself handles a "first boot" scenario, so even if those commands get ran again, I don't think it's an issue.  meena: correct me if I'm wrong.
22:54 < meena> depending on the cloud, yes
22:54 < phy1729> Sounds like they should be run from rc.firsttime then
22:54 < meena> azure may require a network reconfigure on each boot
22:55 < meena> at least Azure, there might be others I'm forgetting
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22:55 < jb1277976> Quick Question i got a partial install https://dpaste.org/nEEq4 what does that actually mean ?
22:56 < Bradipo> jb1277976: Well, the real problem is line 19...
22:57 < uwharrie> looks like you got a file from a mirror in the middle of a sync and pkg_add bailed out in the middle of installing it
22:57 < Bradipo> What happened there?
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22:57 < jb1277976> im assuming its not good to add multiple packages to pkg_add ?
22:57 < Bradipo> Sure you can.
22:58 < uwharrie> pkg_add can handle as many packages as you can throw (include on the command line) at it
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23:00 < jb1277976> Ok so it was just that line19
23:00 < ssm_> pkg_add can also install from filesystem by just giving it a path
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23:00 < ssm_> you'll need to add -Dunsigned though
23:01 < ssm_> unless there's some way to sign packages locally, but I can't find anything about that
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23:04 < uwharrie> it's pretty straight forward to generate your own signing key and sign your locally built packages
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23:04 < uwharrie> just nothing built-in to the ports tree at the moment
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23:05 < brynet> ssm_: You only need -Dunsigned if the packages is unsigned, e.g: built locally.
23:05 < ssm_> yeah that's what I meant
23:06 < ssm_> I'm guessing if I want to sign my local packages I use pkg_sign(1)
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23:08 < uwharrie> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/ports.html#PkgSig
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23:44 < jb1277976> Anyway to fix that cdn error ? I'm getting it now on avahi by itself. Can openbsd try another server?
23:45 < uwharrie> modify /etc/installurl to point to a non-CDN mirror
23:46 < uwharrie> pick something nearby: https://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html
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23:47 < Bradipo> Hahaha, for all the disparaging remarks that the FTP protocol gets, it's funny that /ftp.html still exists. :-)
23:48 < Bradipo> Though, I suppose it does say it can still be obtained via FTP.
23:49 < martian67> Bradipo: perhaps more ironicly, ftp command in the installer only supports http(s), not ftp :D
23:49 < jb1277976> Sheesh there is an answer for everything. Love this place
23:51 < Bradipo> Yes, I use ftp all the time to download things from http(s).
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23:52 < Bradipo> Well, the funny thing about CDN... it's a CDN.  Shouldn't it just "try another server" on it's own?
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23:53 < jb1277976> uwharrie just saw that installurl in the FAQ under install. Everything is in the FAQ manual just gotta know where to look 
23:53 < Bradipo> Though maybe it only has a single name in the CDN.
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 06 00:00:46 2023