--- Log opened Sat Dec 09 00:00:50 2023
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01:05 < adig> Any known issues with gprof as of lately? I'm compiling with -pg but my binaries are segfaulting.
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01:07 < adig> This egcc -pg t.c -o t produces segfaulting binaries.
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01:22 < jb1277976> If I upgrade my ram what will openbsd to for my swap and will it automatically detect the new RAM ?
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01:22 < jb1277976> I just got two team chips totaling 16gb
01:23 < jb1277976> New*
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01:31 < bountyht> jb1277976: new RAM would be detected and swap would not be changed
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01:35 < jb1277976> its only detecting 11gb but there are 2 8gb sticks
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01:42 < xse> an integrated gpu will eat some amount
01:43 < Hooloovoo> how modern of a system do you have to be on for that to be significant?
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01:44  * Hooloovoo doesn't really have any systems built past 2016 and should probably get some?
01:46 < xse> not sure, ryzen 7 PRO 6850Uradeon 680M
01:46 < xse> the specific amount it eats here is configurable in the bios settings, but it can be set quite high
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01:50 < brocashelm> i was previously running openbased on dell optiplex 755 with quad core q9650 cpu; ran "decent", albeit startup was tediously slow
01:52 < brocashelm> contrast to the latitude e5470 i got, with an i7-6600u (two cores) and an m.2, running close to linux levels
01:52 < xse> the setting is called "UMA Frame Buffer Size" here, i don't know if that's a generic term or specific to amd igpus
01:53 < brocashelm> although i would imagine the more recent the hardware, the better the openbsd support (especially within thinkpads)
01:54 < brocashelm> and using at least ddr3 or ddr4 ram
01:54 < brocashelm> nothing slower than 1600 mhz
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02:07 < jb1277976> hmm.. n00b move i put the same ram chip back in the laptop 0_o
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03:26  * PiRATA hey * puffies :)
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10:49 < RandomNick1231> Openbsd = leet
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11:04 < seninha> 0p3n85d = 1337
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11:06 < Zyxer> Meh, RAM speed is almost insignificant unless you use ryzen or newer intel
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11:08 < Zyxer> Mostly marketing, since the newer RAM techs, ddr4 and newer, at least on CPU the RAM sticks I dunno about vRAM, have higher latency
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11:09 < Zyxer> And most use cases need only a bit of data from RAM per request
11:12 < Zyxer> So even if they are faster, the fact the requests are usually many, then the higher latency in newer RAM makes them just as slow. If I am not mistaken it was the first or second generation of Ryzen that was capable of actually gaining "significant" (significant enough for the users experience) performance boost from higher clock speeds. Took intel one or two generations later to release something
11:12 < Zyxer> that also gained performance from the higher clocks in RAM 
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11:14 < Zyxer> (Keep in mind this applies to x86 at best. I am not aware if higher clocks are much beneficial for other archs or other hardware, such as the RAM the GPU has) 
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11:16  * sonya is thinking about multicore x86 CPU and all the rest for a desktop.. some folks say, that only core-duo is "enough"..
11:18 < Zyxer> There was testing in use cases. DDR4 RAM can be set all the way From 2300 to 3666 MHz, 
11:19 < Zyxer> Latency is almost double for DDR4 from DDR3, so the DDR3 had many clockcykles head start
11:22 < Zyxer> Ok latency was 50% higher on DDR4
11:23 < Zyxer> It has turned into marketing
11:24 < Zyxer> Like cores. Like, 8 cores are enough, probs 6 cores as well. You don't usually need 12 cores
11:24 < Zyxer> We are on wifi 7 as well with barely functioning wifi 6
11:25 < Zyxer> USB3 is the worst "plug and play" experience I had. It isn't even backwards compatible in practice
11:26 < Zyxer> Although USB 3 seems to have started with a serious intent, it turned into marketing
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11:29 < Zyxer> "In our non-gaming tests, there is one situation where DDR3 is more than 3% better and two where DDR4 is +3%. It is worth noting that most of the numbers, especially with things like the Web and Cinebench are actually slightly negative."
11:29 < Zyxer> https://www.anandtech.com/show/8959/ddr4-haswell-e-scaling-review-2133-to-3200-with-gskill-corsair-adata-and-crucial/8
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11:32 < Zyxer> Benefitof ddr4 over ddr3 is pretty much winrar
11:33 < Zyxer> Of course all of this might change, I am notclaiming to have a crystal ball to see the future
11:34 < Zyxer> For example in the past the bottleneck in gaming used to be the GPU, even the 980 bottlenecked many high end and even some end CPU
11:35 < Zyxer> So back then getting the best CPU would be wasteful if just for PC gaming. Even midrange was near future proof, just needed better than stock cooler when you got newer GPU that turned CPU into bottleneck
11:36 < Zyxer> But today CPUs are bottleneck in gaming. 
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12:18 < Belzebuth> Hello
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12:25 < Belzebuth> Trying to set OpenBSD 7.4 to switch on with wakeonelan? I cannot find ethtool.
12:25 < Belzebuth> Trying to set OpenBSD 7.4 to switch on with wakeonelan? I cannot find ethtool.
12:26 < sibiria> this is bsd, not linux. no ethtool, buddy.
12:27 < quinq> (there's ifconfig though)
12:27 < quinq> (mate)
12:27 < sibiria> you might get the info from ifconfig, yeah
12:28 < sibiria> with "features" or what the keyword is
12:28 < quinq> or just with wol command
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12:32 < Belzebuth> is there a howto, on how I can do this?
12:33 < quinq> There is a fantastic manual page
12:34 < sibiria> ifconfig <interface> hwfeatures
12:34 < sibiria> should tell if you have WOL or not 
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13:08 < Belzebuth> trying to set wol with ifconfig : # ifconfig wol em0
13:08 < Belzebuth> ifconfig: em0: bad value
13:15 < Zyxer> maybe you got re0?
13:16 < ssm_> Belzebuth: ifconfig em0 wol
13:16 < ssm_> configuration for interface goes after the interface
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13:17 < quinq> ifconfig [-AaC] [-M lladdr] [interface] [address_family] [address [dest_address]] [parameters]
13:18 < sibiria> and [joystick port] [ipv6 bios] [quinq pin#]
13:18 < ssm_> also you'll want to put wol in /etc/hostname.em0 if you want it to persist between reboot
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13:19 < Belzebuth> # ifconfig em0 wol
13:19 < Belzebuth> ifconfig: em0: SIOCSIFXFLAGS: Not supported
13:19 < deacon426> morning peeps
13:19 < Zyxer> Morning
13:19 < Belzebuth> I put 'up wol' in /etc/hostname.em0
13:19 < sibiria> so there's your answer. the device - or openbsd's driver - does not support WoL for that interface
13:19 < deacon426> hiya Zyxer 
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13:20 < Zyxer> Belzebuth: seems like your chipset doesn't support it, or OpenBSD driver firmware thingys doesn't support it on that chipset you got
13:20 < sibiria> keep in mind that sometimes when disabling WoL in BIOS/EFI, the driver will not see the feature and presume the device doesn't spuport it
13:20 < Belzebuth> sibiria: but it's in the BIOS - Dell Optiplex 790
13:20 < sibiria> if you have enabled it then it seems openbsd's em(4) driver does not support it
13:21 < quinq> sibiria, that's absent from the manual
13:21 < Belzebuth> I think I did not use EFI, does that affect?
13:21 < Zyxer> sibiria: I didn't know that, thanks for the info. I'll keep it in mind for more than just onboard audio and iGPU
13:22 < deacon426> I'd like to say, I love openbsd's audio system.  there I said it
13:22 < Zyxer> deacon426: How's your morning going?
13:22 < sibiria> Belzebuth: i don't think that affects it. you can try one more thing just to be sure:   ifconfig em0 hwfeatures    do you see WOL listed?
13:22 < deacon426> just shaking out the cobwebs (waking up)
13:22 < deacon426> death before decaf!
13:23 < Zyxer> Yea, I also need my coffee cup 
13:23 < deacon426> Zyxer: also, in an oddly enough good mood for some reason
13:23 < deacon426> unexplainable
13:23 < ssm_> deacon426: sndio works on linux too, though you might have to use something like gentoo because I don't know how many distros are going to build sndio support into all their packages even if they port sndio itself
13:23 < Belzebuth> sibiria: no
13:23 < Zyxer> That's good to hear. Hopefully I also get that after my coffee. 
13:23 < sibiria> Belzebuth: then you're out of luck, bubba
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13:24 < Belzebuth> sibiria: can I change the driver?
13:24 < sibiria> Belzebuth: no
13:24 < sibiria> not short of providing a patch for it :p
13:25 < Belzebuth> sibiria: ok, that's that, thanks.
13:28 < ssm_> Belzebuth: even if you can't wake on lan, you can still quake on lan with games/ezquake
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13:29 < Belzebuth> ssm_: hehe
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13:30 < meorly> ethtool has been deprecated for a decade no?
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13:47 < quinq> no
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16:28 < ssm_> https://github.com/yshui/picom/issues/1056 think this was the bug with picom that was causing X to freeze in my usage
16:28 < ssm_> was getting some uvm alloc something something errors in dmesg
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17:42 < ssm_> ported picom-next, obviously not going to submit it, but when the next stable comes around maybe I can help
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19:13 < alreadyburnt> big issue, i removed my CA database in /etc/ssl/certs how do I rebuild it or where can I find it online?
19:14 < phy1729> Do an upgrade to the same version
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19:16 < alreadyburnt> how do I do it? I am following stable
19:17 < alreadyburnt> sysupgrade checks for 7.5
19:17 < phy1729> Do you have a /bsd.rd in your root?
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19:18 < alreadyburnt> yes
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19:19 < phy1729> reboot, at the boot>  prompt type   bsd.rd   hit enter and you'll end up in the installer, choose upgrade
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19:19 < phy1729> You could also find baseXX.tgz and extract it or pull it from CVS
19:20 < alreadyburnt> thank you it sounds like I should know more about this bsd.rd thing
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19:34 < xse> RamDisk - computer people and abreviations
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19:42 < topcat001> Belzebuth: Do you need to power it up using a magic packet or wake it up from sleep?
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20:02 < alreadyburnt> btw upgrading from bsd.rd didn't restore /etc/ssl/certs
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20:02 < alreadyburnt> I think I'll install openbsd on a vm and copy paste
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20:06 < thrig> what would restoring that directory mean?
20:08 < alreadyburnt> I accidentally deleted my /etc/ssl/certs and someone said ugprading from /bsd.rd would recreate it
20:09 < alreadyburnt> maybe I read it wrong
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20:10 < phy1729> OpenBSD uses /etc/ssl/cert.pem I had assumed you meant that, but I should have asked
20:14 < alreadyburnt> actually you're right, https requests started working again and I have that file, I made so much confusion
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20:29 < jb1277976> What's up my peeps!
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20:30 < thrig> peeps? more like those-who-are-reset-by-peer
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20:35 < jb1277976> :P
20:35 -!- psydroid2 [~psydroid@user/psydroid] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:35 < jb1277976> this 16GB ram is awesome
20:36 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has joined #openbsd
20:36 < jb1277976> coming from a hdd to a ssd , from 4gb ram to 16gb ram
20:36 < jb1277976> like a new laptop
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20:40 < brocashelm> that'll do it
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20:47 < jb1277976> it's old though Aspire E5-575
20:47 < jb1277976> hw.model=Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-7100U CPU @ 2.40GHz
20:47 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has joined #openbsd
20:48 < jb1277976> good enough for me
20:48 < brocashelm> openbdsm is running closer to linux levels with an m.2 nvme ssd + 16 gb ddr4 ram + i7-6600u (2c/4t)
20:48 < jb1277976> is that bad ?
20:49 < brocashelm> wdym?
20:49 < brocashelm> it's faster/snappier
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20:49 < jb1277976> linux levels
20:49 < jb1277976> oh ok
20:50 < sonya> brocashelm, bdsm is outperform linux with my modest 512Mb RAM (64Mb eaten by integrated video) and trusty Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz :))
20:50 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:51 < brocashelm> lol
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20:53 < ssm_> outside of no hardware video decoding (vaapi), I notice no difference in performance between openbsd and linux these days
20:53  * sonya is thinking about Netbdsm.. some folks say it could do even better, but native pf is a kind of stopper :))
20:53 < ssm_> sorry, I meant OpenBaSeD
20:54 < brocashelm> tempted to get the shirt from mental outlaw
20:54 < jb1277976> that guy helped me in my gentoo journey
20:54 < sonya> ssm_ it's great, but openmp couldbe handy, imo
20:55 < brocashelm> https://based.win/product/openbased-t-shirt/
20:55 < brocashelm> lol
20:55 < brocashelm> i did get the official 7.4 shirt and it came out nicely
20:56 < brocashelm> imma wear it today
20:56 < brocashelm> always dig the artwork
20:58 -!- ivdsangen [~ivo@86-95-161-96.fixed.kpn.net] has quit [Quit: https://github.com/ivdsangen]
20:58 < thrig> dig +short artwork
20:59 < sonya> https://www.openbsd.org/images/Brazil.jpg
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21:15 < jb1277976> do i need to do anything special in chromium to get zoom to work ?
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21:24 < jb1277976> hmm cheese is showing me a green screen
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21:27 < ssm_> jb1277976: think you need to recompile, read about it several years ago (wasm support I think?)
21:28 < ssm_> have fun hammering your cpu for the next n hours
21:28 < coyote> wasm support is available on chromium from packages, but has to be enabled
21:29 < coyote> "ENABLE_WASM=1 chrome --enable-wasm" should work
21:30 < jb1277976> coyote where do i enter that information ?
21:30 < coyote> depends on how you're running it
21:30 < jb1277976> i just opened up chrome and tried to go to a test meeting in my browser
21:31 < jb1277976> brb getting soda :P for food
21:31 < coyote> if you're using a desktop env, my best advice would be to copy the desktop entry file that's installed (should be somewhere around /usr/local/share/applications, i'm not on an openbsd machine rn to verify) to your home (at ~/.local/share/applications) and edit the command invocation in that file
21:31 < coyote> desktop environment*
21:32 < ssm_> jb1277976: environment variable would best fit in .xsession (assuming you use the default xenodm), don't know if you need the longarg coyote added
21:33 < ssm_> if you do, make a script in ~/bin and add ~/bin to the front of PATH
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21:33 < coyote> all the resources i've seen online wrt enabling WASM on chromium add both env variable and longarg, but i haven't tested myself if it's actually needed
21:33 < ssm_> seems redundant if it is
21:36 < metavoid> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports-cvs&m=159603220602666&w=2
21:36 < thrig> thus are bytes cargo culted
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21:36 < coyote> i see
21:37 < rIMpossible> How may an ordinary user halt and poweroff his OpenBSD desktop system?
21:37 < ssm_> halt -p
21:38 < rIMpossible> halt: Operation not permitted
21:38 < ssm_> needs root
21:38 < rIMpossible> Ordinary user has no root
21:38 < sonya> rIMpossible, include user in corresponding group for shutdown
21:39 < rIMpossible> sonya: ok, do it and then type "shutdown -d now" - then wait 30 seconds
21:39 < ssm_> letting unprivileged users power off is a DOS bug, that desktop environments have accepted as normal for some reason
21:39 < sonya> it's guid file
21:39 < rIMpossible> check mount, ifconfig, route
21:39 < thrig> uh the BIOS didn't really have any means to actually turn off the computer
21:39 < coyote> ssm_: all for the sake of "convenience" :P
21:40 < ssm_> rIMpossible: if you want something similar, you can setup doas to allow running halt -p with nopass as root, and makea poweroff script in ~/bin or something
21:41 < jb1277976> I'll look into my webcam at a later date. Gonna put debian on the Chromebook and use that as a backup whenever I have meetings. Only on Fridays
21:41 < ssm_> ...or you can just type in your root password to poweroff
21:41 < sonya> -r-sr-x---  1 root  _shutdown  - 259652 Oct 10 17:41 /sbin/shutdown
21:41 < sonya> here user in _shutdown group
21:41 < sonya> all fine
21:41 < sonya> and another option is torun apmd
21:42 < sonya> then poweroff is triggered on power button press
21:42 < rIMpossible> sonya: Allowing halt -p in doas seems to be an alternative to not lead an ordinary user in the _shutdown group to root level
21:42 < sonya> doas is.. well..
21:43 < ssm_> sudo if it was good?
21:43 < sonya> the case is not in doas/sudo, but in config itself
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21:44 < sonya> allowing user to sudo/doas could result in copy binary to say /temp and execute there..
21:45 < rIMpossible> Theo may say what he wants, I see it highly critical, having a user in _shutdown group and mistyping "shutdown -d now" instead of "shutdown -h now". Found out by accident, that it leads to RL0/root
21:46 < sonya> then apmd
21:46 < sonya> and press power button
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21:47 < rIMpossible> sonya: this is what I do sometimes, mostly it's doas halt -p
21:48 < ssm_> or, you could type in your root password, to perform a command that only root should be able to perform in any sane world (this not being one of them)
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21:48 < coyote> there's a reason the shutdown command used to be associated to the operator group
21:49 < coyote> if you see it highly critical, i guess it's pertinent to ask what are your intentions to letting "ordinary user"s shutdown
21:49 < coyote> if it's a single user who owns the desktop, i don't really see it as "highly critical"
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21:49  * coyote shrugs
21:49 < rIMpossible> Has anyone a pre 7.4 sys up and could test shutdown -d now, when in operator group?
21:50 < coyote> will give the same result i suppose
21:50 < sonya> rIMpossible, the case was the same. shutdown was SUID
21:50 < sonya> now and then
21:50 < sonya> 74 changed group
21:50 < rIMpossible> sonya: ok, have no 7.3 boxes around here anymore
21:50 < sonya> that'sit
21:51 < sibiria> -d does what -d is supposed to do. the difference is that there's a specific group allowance for it now
21:51 < sibiria> if anything, perhaps only euid 0 should be allowed to trigger -d
21:51 < sibiria> looks like an oversight
21:52 < coyote> fwiw; running "shutdown now" will also sometimes put the system into single-user mode (depends on your device and any ACPI quirks, I'd assume)
21:52 < sibiria> same with -h
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21:54 < rIMpossible> So, the permission in doas.conf for halt Â-p r apmd/powerbutton seems the most safe solution, if there are multiple users with multiple desktops
21:54 < rIMpossible> s/r/or
21:54 < coyote> if you worry so much about single-user shells dropping you into a root shell, you should probably add the secure flag to the ttys file
21:55 < coyote> s/add the secure flag/remove the secure flag/
21:55 < rIMpossible> coyote: that's already done ;)
21:56 < rIMpossible> coyote: and it is not about me, it is about the others ;)
21:57 < sibiria> do the "others" have local access to the machine?
21:57  * coyote shrugs
21:57 < sibiria> if so, none of this matters
21:57 < sibiria> they can just reboot and go into single-user mode at their leisure
21:58 < rIMpossible> sibiria: the others are 17 and there are 17 desktops, yes
21:58 < sonya> sibiria, to go to sm they need a boot prompt :))
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21:59 < sonya> and here's /etc/boot.conf
21:59 < coyote> in that case, your safest bet would be just "doas halt -p" and the right config then, i guess
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21:59 < rIMpossible> coyote: this is, why i started the discussion
21:59 < coyote> although i don't see "shutdown -d now" dropping you into single-user a "highly critical" situation, since the manpage itself mentions: "When the shutdown command is issued without options, the system is placed in single user mode at the indicated time after shutting down all system services."
22:00 < coyote> that, and the doc for flag "-d" saying "When used with -h, -p, or -r [...]"
22:00 < rIMpossible> coyote: We are talking about ordinary users, who should not be able to end up in single user and then have the world open
22:00 < coyote> would lead me to assume that using the d flag alone would be a no-op? correct me if i'm wrong
22:01 < coyote> in that case, shutdown would not be the tool you want :)
22:01 < rIMpossible> For now, all ordinary desktop users are removed from _shutdown group. I don't wanna have a bad day (or night) because of a too nerdy user
22:02 < rIMpossible> seeing his chance
22:02 < sibiria> make a new group, give users an alias, create a suid shell script enforcing powerdown
22:03 < sonya> rIMpossible, how about a custom script calling "halt -p" with SUID and executable for all/users?
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22:05 < rIMpossible> sonya: I thought about coupling it to the timeÃ-sstem, so if the user leaves the company, hs desktop shuts down remotely with a ssh login
22:05 < rIMpossible> s/time-sstem/time-system
22:07 < sonya> could work.. with central auth system and defined actions for logaut, imo..
22:07 < rIMpossible> sonya: thought so
22:09 < rIMpossible> Thank you people, for the constructive discussion about this issue
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22:51 < jb1277976> If I'm going to dd an iso do I do it to say sd1c the entire disk or what? Do I need to make sure that sd1 is got or mbr already or does the iso already do that when I burn it ?
22:51 < jb1277976> gpt*
22:51 < metavoid> dd an .img instead
22:52 < metavoid> just do it on the *c
22:52 < metavoid> sd1c in your example
22:53 < jb1277976> Thanks
22:53 < metavoid> .iso are for cdrom
22:53 < metavoid> I assume have an usb stick for instance
22:55 < metavoid> use /dev/rsd1c
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23:14 < jb1277976> metavoid cause the r is raw right ?
23:17 < ssm_> r is raw, as in character device
23:17 < ssm_> it'll write byte by byte instead of in blocks
23:20 < thrig> as seen by the "c" or "b" in a suitable ls -l or similar
23:21 < jb1277976>  so writing to sd1c and rsd1c is diffrent ? i need to read up more
23:21 < sibiria> it's different in some cases, yes
23:21 < sibiria> in this case, use the raw device
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23:54 < jb1277976>                  ok
23:55 < jmcunx> IIRC in the 'old days', the raw device was unbuffered.  Not sure if the same for OpenBSD
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 10 00:00:52 2023