--- Log opened Tue Dec 12 00:00:55 2023
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00:15 < Zyxer> Where can I find list of GPUs that are supported? I remember finding a list somewhere but alas, gone from my grasp
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00:18 < Bradipo> Zyxer: Not sure if this is what you're looking for... go to www.openbsd.org
00:18 < Bradipo> Then click on Hardware Platforms.
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00:21 < Zyxer> No, wat?
00:22 < Zyxer> That has only what CPU architecture it runs on
00:23 < uwharrie> there is no single list of supported GPUs, they're documented in individual drivers like intel(4) amdgpu(4) or radeon(4)
00:23 < Zyxer> https://man.openbsd.org/amdgpu.4
00:24 < uwharrie> hmm, or I thought they were
00:24 < Zyxer> Yea, I remember it not being too hard to find in the past. 
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00:28 < Zyxer> Aw well, in my experience OpenBSD has better AMD GPU support than FreeBSD, so if it is on FreeBSD list I will assume it works in Open. Most one finds is news about new architecture support added or such. 
00:30 < Zyxer> I mean, now that I decided on a new GPU I can search for "OpenBSD {GPU arch}" and I find articles about OpenBSD x.y Released with support for {GPU arch}
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00:46 < pardis> amdgpu(4) documents the userland driver, not the kernel driver
00:46 < pardis> the X man pages come from xenocara
00:47 < pardis> you could try to peruse https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/dev/pci/drm/amd/amdgpu/ and see if you can find a list of devices in one of those myriad files
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00:48 < pardis> I would instead look at the changes for one of the recently modified files like amdgpu.h, see "update drm to linux 6.1.2", and look at the Linux changelog to see what hardware was supported in that version
00:49 < pardis> actually, that commit message even says what the most recently added hardware support is
00:52 < Zyxer> At that point it is just easier to search openbsd {GPU arch of choice}
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01:17 < brocashelm> as long as you're not using novideo gpu, you should be golden on openbsd
01:17 < brocashelm> intel and amd both work solidly
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01:23 < Zyxer> Oh, that includes intel arc's?
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01:33 < P-Nut> Hi all. Is there a way to wildcard install a package?
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01:34 < P-Nut> I'd like to always install vim-no-x11 in a script, but I can only select vim-9.0.2035-no_x11.
01:34 < P-Nut> Is there a way to wildcard the date and version?
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02:44 < adig> Any tips for optimizing java?
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03:06 < adig> Maybe having /usr/local mounted on a SSD would be a step forward... :D
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04:20 < oldlaptop> adig: If you're having performance trouble with some particular Java program, it's probably better to say so
04:21 < oldlaptop> supposing there's anything to be done, it's not all that likely to have anything in particular to do with java
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04:47 < adig> oldlaptop It's vnu (https://validator.github.io/validator/) in particular, even small (3 lines) take 6-7-10-20 seconds to validate.
04:47 < adig> I've compiled it myself but it's available in ports also if I'm not mistaken.
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04:58 < thrig> I had to write a timeout program because the jvm would randomly wedge, so only being slow is progress?
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05:01 < P-Nut> Hi all
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05:01 < P-Nut> How are we tonight / today / this afternoon ?
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05:18 < adig_> @thrig True that, tbh I'm not sure about how good of a software vnu itself is.
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06:10 < adig_> It's slow on Linux also (mind it I run it on vm hosted on the same non ssd hard drive), 50s - 1 minute to check a 2 line HTML file.
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06:20 < rIMpossible> G'morning :)
06:21 < Viking667> 'llo all. I've just upgraded from 7.2 to 7.4 and then sysupgrade -s, ran pkg_add -u and I'm left with one question. Did sysupgrade -s  upgrade me to the latest snapshot? I don't know how to check that.
06:21 < Viking667> (I've got it on a VM)
06:22 < rIMpossible> How can one do best practice on-demand dialing with MBIM umb(4) device? Like with the good old pppd(8) -demand -persist flags?
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06:23 < rIMpossible> Viking667: if you are on -stable, you need first to install up to the latest patch, upgrade all pkg with pkg_add -u and then sysupgrade to 7.3. Then start over, where my sentence begins
06:23 < rIMpossible> to upgrade to 7.4
06:24 < rIMpossible> Viking667: sorry, did not read the 'snapshot' track
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06:35 < Viking667> ?
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06:38 < pardis> that is also not correct, there is almost never any need to syspatch and never any need to pkg_add -u before sysupgrade
06:38 < pardis> syspatch may be necessary in rare edge cases
06:39 < pardis> Viking667: sysupgrade -s will upgrade you to the current snapshot for your architecture on your mirror, which may or may not be the latest one built
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06:45 < Viking667> Okay, that's pretty much what I wanted to know. Thank you.
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06:46 < Viking667> And for what it's worth, I did sysupgrade first, THEN did pkg_add -u. I thought there was no point in having to run pkg_add twice
06:47 < Viking667> (as in, 7.2 -> 7.3 -> snapshot -> pkg_add -u)
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07:26 < Viking667> I've seen several documents  in the src tarball (specifically the USD text documents), can I build those outside of the OpenBSD environment?
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07:33 < IcePic> Viking667: probably, most of the stuff in the src tree is nice and selfcontained and don't depend on weird stuff (at least not on things outside of the src tree), but that is as specific an answer you can get, I gather
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07:51 < Viking667> Okay, I guess I can work it out from there. It's just that I'll have to work my way through what's meant to be in bsd.mk, because I suspect that'll influence what commands make can access.
07:51 < Viking667> (and I'll have to evaluate whether I use bmake or try gnu's make)
07:57 < Viking667> Ah, (bsd.prog.mk) is what I meant.
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08:05 < Viking667> heh. Nope, was easier than I thought. I'll stop waffling, I may be back another time. Thanks for the help, all.
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09:42 < Viking667> hm. I had computer running, with an OpenBSD in a VM. Computer crashed, now my OpenBSD has like several hundred files gone. How do I reinstall an existing OpenBSD? (I seem to be on snapshot) I seem to read that I use "bsd.rd" at the boot> prompt
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09:43 < lenny1337> re extract the install tarballs
09:43 < Viking667> I can't remember how I did that any more, this was way back in 7.2 about four years ago? (rough guess)
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09:45 < IcePic> Viking667: you should be able to just boot the bsd.rd and run (U)pgrade and it will write the new OS files over the old ones
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09:51 < Viking667> Yup, doing that now. Sorry I took so long to get back, was just working out what sets to restore, etc.
09:51 < Viking667> then came back, saw your comment,realised I was on the money.
09:51 < Viking667> how do I force reinstall of all the pkg_add packages?
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09:56 < IcePic> Viking667: manpage for pkg_add mentions both a repair and a replace setting you could try
09:57 < betabug> or `pkg_info -mz >installed_list`, then remove all, then pkg_add -l installed_list
09:57 < Viking667> Okay, I'll check that when I get my prompt back from bsd. thanks.
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10:15 < Viking667> I'm also looking at pkg_check too
10:16 < Viking667> man it's easy to toast an OpenBSD system...
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10:35 < IcePic> Viking667: sure, just have the hypervisor cache outstanding writes for the VM and then have it crash before it can commit the data it pretended to have written to disk
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10:36 < lenny1337> true...
10:37 < IcePic> having the IO layers lie to you is a great way to get super performant disks
10:47 < Viking667> heh. nothing worse than a simple complete computer lock-up to totally mess with things.
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12:24 < deacon426> morning folks
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13:05 < jfsimon1981_c> Morning
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16:14 < welcome> HELO
16:14 < welcome> I need to start multple X servers with xenodm
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16:25 < Bradipo> welcome: Have you looked at /etc/X11/xenodm/Xservers ?
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16:31 < welcome> yees
16:31 < welcome> I could get it working when I tried before ( few weeks ago now)
16:33 < sonya> welcome, you need to get the way of how xenodm works.. look through files in  /etc/X11/xenodm/ , check /etc/ttys.. the idea is to start additional instance of X on dumb tty
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16:35 < sonya> welcome, or try smth. like: # xinit /path/to/program -- :1
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16:36 < welcome> I didn't know about /etc/ttys
16:36 < sonya> the best way is not to alter the defaults or do it at minimum and without pain for maintenance
16:36 < welcome> I think I will get it now
16:36 < welcome> Back shortly
16:36 < welcome> ...
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16:57 < Bradipo> How do I get unpadded strftime formats on OpenBSD?
16:57 < Bradipo> e.g. %-I would produce 9 instead of 09.
16:58 < Bradipo> And %-m/%-d/%Y would produce 1/1/2023 instead of 01/01/2023.
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17:00 < Bradipo> %e doesn't work in place of %-d because %e is padded with a space instead of a 0.
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17:07 < sibiria> Bradipo: it's all in the manpage. they are the standard designators seen almost everywhere else
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17:08 < Bradipo> Well, I've been looking through strftime(3) and mktime(3)...
17:08 < Bradipo> I'll look closer.
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17:08 < sibiria> oh you mean the blank space padding
17:08 < Bradipo> Yes.
17:09 < Bradipo> I want no padding at all, no zeros, no blanks.
17:09 < Bradipo> %e produces a blank padded version of %d.
17:10 < Bradipo> But I need m/d/YYYY not mm/dd/YYYY
17:10 < Bradipo> And I also need unpadded %I
17:10 < Bradipo> If you have to know, I'm trying to match output coming from a Microsoft API.
17:11 < thrig> I'm so terribly sorry
17:11 < Bradipo> Haha, well, actually, it's been working great from Linux...
17:11 < Bradipo> Because linux strftime has %-m/%-d/%Y %-I:%M:%S
17:11 < Bradipo> The - apparently is a non-standard extension.
17:12 < Bradipo> So I guess I can just write my own for OpenBSD.
17:12 < Bradipo> e.g. just get each component individually and strip it and then join it.
17:12 < sibiria> though that's how strftime() works everywhere. you need to pull and print the values on your own using time/localtime
17:13 < Bradipo> Definitely it doesn't work everywhere as I've discovered.
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17:14 < thrig> it's a good day when strftime and strptime aren't segfaulting or wedging
17:14 < Bradipo> Haha.
17:14 < sibiria> i don't think windows is a legitimate player in this case since it keeps fighting against POSIX
17:14 < thrig> dunno if Apple ever fixed the wedge around '%s' in their strptime
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17:15 < Bradipo> Fortunately I'm not writing code that runs on Windows.
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17:15 < Bradipo> I'm writing code that "matches" a date string produced by Windows.
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17:18 < sibiria> feels like something sscanf() can do without hiccups
17:19 < Bradipo> Hmm, that's a thought.
17:19 < sonya> i think i'm not getting things but $(date +%d%m%y) seems has no paddings
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17:21 < Bradipo> That's because we're in December and on the 12th.
17:23 < Bradipo> date -j +%d%m%y 202301020304
17:23 < il> sonya, you need to insert whatever separators you wants in that string
17:23 < Bradipo> Try that.
17:23 < sonya> hmm.. correct.. 05 as a day
17:23 < Bradipo> And if you use %e in place of %d you'll get a padded day.
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17:23 < Bradipo> Well, padded with a space instead of a 0.
17:23  * sonya is dumb and my feeble brain cannot accomodate properly
17:24 < il> date +%d\ %m\ %y
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17:26 < Bradipo> Definitely not what I'm trying to accomplish.
17:27 < Bradipo> Given the date 2023-01-01, I need to produce 1/1/2023
17:27 < il> oh, you want that
17:27 < Bradipo> And yes, there's some ambiguity with which is month and day.
17:27 < sonya> then an options are to strip leading zeroes or/and speces (%e)
17:27 < Bradipo> Yep.
17:27 < Bradipo> That's what I'm doing.
17:27 < Bradipo> dt.strftime('%m').lstrip('0') #python
17:28 < il> date +%D
17:28 < sonya> well.. seems that there'd be more simple solution, imo..
17:28 < Bradipo> il: That only works in months that are > 9 and days > 9.
17:28 < il> you want it zero padded?
17:29 < il> Or not zero padded
17:29 < sonya> no padding as i got
17:29 < Bradipo> sonya: Haha, the simpler solution was: %-m/%-d/%Y %-I:%M:%S
17:29 < sonya> damn! i knew it!
17:30 < Bradipo> key word, was...
17:30 < sonya> yeah
17:30 < sibiria> if you're working with python you can simply pull numerals with time.localtime()
17:30 < il> You are committing a slight heresy, though
17:30 < il> just use date -I
17:30 < il> the way god intended
17:30  * sonya is gone.. need tsome fuel.. todumb to communicate..
17:31 < jonadab> Surely as long as Python has been around it must have an equivalent for DateTime.pm by now.
17:31 < jonadab> I never got into Python enough to know what it's called though.
17:32 < Bradipo> Python relies on the OS strftime(3) I think.
17:32 < Bradipo> It does not implement it's own.
17:32 < Bradipo> I could be wrong.
17:32 < Bradipo> I'll just get each component, strip the padding, and then recombine.
17:33 < Bradipo> Well, actually, I do know... if Python implemented it's own, I wouldn't be here now.
17:33 < sibiria> no. you will use time.localtime() or .gmtime()
17:33 < sibiria> that's an order
17:33 < jonadab> Those don't really work for parsing strings generated by other software though.
17:34 < RobbieAB> python has datetime, how useful it us for your usecase...
17:35 < jonadab> I just don't know the Python equivalent for my $dt = DateTime::Format::Foo->parse_datetime($string);
17:35 < Bradipo> Yeah, don't worry about it.  I've figured it out now.
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17:37 < RobbieAB> jonadab: some variation on datetime.strptime() I suspect.
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18:27 < lemontree> hey, so what are you guys using for OS independent encrypted partitions? the only trustworthy thing i found is veracrypt.
18:27 < pardis> no such thing exists that is likely to work reliably
18:28 < lts> ^ 
18:28 < pardis> especially since the filesystem options on top of it are crap even if you do encrypt a partition in such a way
18:28 < pardis> if you want to share encrypted data between OSes, encrypt your files, not your filesystems
18:28 < lemontree> hmm interesting
18:30 < lemontree> so i currently use dm-crypt and inside that ext4. this is the only thing which keeps me from using openbsd. with reliability, do you mean that FAT has no journal and such?
18:31 < pardis> if you only want Linux and OpenBSD, you can use ext3
18:31 < pardis> if you want true OS-independence (that is, you also care about Windows and macOS and what not), then FAT is basically the only option, yes
18:31 < lemontree> ah i only care about linux and openbsd
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18:32 < pardis> I used to share an encrypted /home between Linux and OpenBSD by using softraid(4) crypto on OpenBSD, and having an OpenBSD VM on Linux from which I mounted /home over nfs
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18:32 < pardis> it worked well enough but had the usual drawbacks of nfs
18:32 < lemontree> encrypting files individually is something i kind of dislike because it reduces flexibility and stuff - but yes it would be possible
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18:33 < pardis> another possibility which I have also used successfully in the past is to set an ATA master password, if you trust your SSD vendor to use it as an actual encryption key (some just verify the password is correct and allow access to the data if so)
18:33 < lemontree> so what i want to do is backups. currently, this encrypted drive contains for instance git repos with sensitive infos. my /home is encrypted so i can just git push to the harddrive and everything is fine
18:34 < thrig> or you could backup using restic or something like that
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18:35 < pardis> why do you need to share an encrypted partition between OSes for doing backups?
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18:37 < lemontree> i have two laptops which have a "sync" folder which i regularly sync to the encrypted harddrive and do backups. i could avoid that by syncing directly via ssh & rsync between each other but i still like it on the harddrive
18:37 < lemontree> the bigger point is probably the git repos which are not easy to encrypt as individual files
18:37 < uwharrie> Trying to juggle multiple OSes tends to complicate things, and complicated backups tend to end up being stale backups.
18:38 < lemontree> (=my requirement is also longevity, so therefore the options to push to encrypted git repos is not that good)
18:38 < lemontree> uwharrie: true
18:39 < pardis> do you really need to plug the hard drive into both laptops?
18:39 < uwharrie> my setup is a RAID1C attached to an Open system, all the other systems either rsync or get rsnapshotted to/from there
18:39 < pardis> you can sync using rsync to the hard drive if it's connected to the laptop you aren't currently using
18:40 < jonadab> You can backup over the network using rsync or scp or something, and then the filesystem doesn't need multi-OS support.
18:40 < pardis> or buy a cheap rpi or something and have the hard drive permanently attached to that
18:41 < uwharrie> anacron is good for ensuring not always on portables perform backups when they are on
18:44 < lemontree> i don't need to plug the harddrive into both laptops. i usually use one for a while and then switch over to the other. so i try to keep the harddrives always in a state where switching between those two laptops is easy
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18:45 < lemontree> external servers (cloud for instance) is something i have decomissioned because of costs. an rpi or something would be a possibility but i like that i currently don't need that
18:48 < lemontree> but do i understand you guys correctly: veracrypt encrypted partition with ext3 would be less reliable and more complicated and less secure etc compared to the things you have suggested?
18:49 < Bradipo> Just sync your data from wherever to the host that has the veracrypt drive.
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18:50 < Bradipo> Now, you may argue that it's less secure...  If so, partition the drive.  When connected to X use veracrypt on partition A, when connected to Y use encryption method Z on partition B.
18:51 < Bradipo> That certainly makes it more complicated.
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18:53 < lemontree> hmm, i wonder if we talk about the same things: if the two laptops can ssh each other then i don't need to go around with the external drive but powering on the harddrive is simpler compared to the laptop sync (which i do anyway but not so regularly because most of the time this device is powered down)
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18:54 < Bradipo> Yes, it is certainly simpler to connect a USB drive to one host than it is to power on two hosts and sync between them.
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18:54 < lemontree> and regarding partitions: i was thinking about 1 partition that is shared. i know that i can't reach the quality of raid1c or dm-crypt but i thought it might be good enough
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18:54 < Bradipo> But what's the point of a shared partition if you cannot use the encryption you want on it?
18:55 < Bradipo> Does Veracrypt work on OpenBSD?
18:55 < lemontree> i never tried it but i have seen there exists a port for it
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18:57 < lemontree> uwharrie: what did you mean by open system?
18:58 < Bradipo> veracrypt does appear to be in ports, so there should be a package for it.
18:58 < Bradipo> Might use fuse...
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19:03 < uwharrie> OpenBSD
19:05 < ssm_> OpenBSD
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19:08 < lemontree> hmm, thanks everybody for the great answers! this helps me a lot, now i need to think.
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19:08 < PiRATA> Bradipo: last time I checked, the cli works
19:09 < PiRATA> no support for GUI though
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19:11 < pardis> lemontree: veracrypt on OpenBSD requires fuse, fuse is likely to be unreliable, especially for large volumes of data
19:11 < pardis> and OpenBSD's ext2fs is slow as well, and will be especially slow for git
19:12 < pardis> you can try it if you want, but my expectation is that it will both be slow and crash often
19:13 < pardis> note that since OpenBSD's ext2fs lacks both journaling and softdep, running it on top of fuse is likely to be even slower, since every synchronous metadata update will require a context switch and a jump to userland and back
19:14 < lemontree> hmm, but ext2fs being slow: how slow? i am used to usb2 speed, would it matter? because i now thought about doing encrypted backups to a (non-encrypted) ext3 drive
19:14 < bulls> veracrypt is pwned by gov hats
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19:14 < pardis> it's not throughput I'm talking about, it's latency
19:15 < lemontree> pardis: yes but i now talk about the non-verycrypt variant. does it also use fuse there?
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19:15 < pardis> no, if you run ext2fs on an unencrypted disk or a softraid crypto volume it won't use fuse
19:16 < pardis> it is still likely to be slow because it doesn't see much use by developers and hasn't been optimised much
19:16 < pardis> but it won't be *as* slow
19:16 < lemontree> ah, thanks
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19:18 < lemontree> so now, i think i can get away without an external rpi and without veracrypt etc: the git repos are only private ones, so i can git push between the two laptops and merge the work from the other laptop and inculde everything (git repos, sync folder) inside the encrypted backup
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21:12 < sonya> lemontree, last time i checked veracrypt it coredumped and i gad neither time nor desire to trace it.. may be now situation improved, but i don't think so..
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23:10 < Viking667> whoops, didn't mean to end up here...
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23:13 < sibiria> come back. stay. all is forgiven
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23:17 < Zyxer> I think he was looking for Valhalla
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23:18 < Zyxer> Too much mead and he mixed up OpenBSD with Valhalla. I mean, they aren't that different metaphorically
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 13 00:00:41 2023