--- Log opened Wed Dec 13 00:00:41 2023
--- Day changed Wed Dec 13 2023
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00:27 < mesaoptimizer> pf is such a joy to use
00:27 < mesaoptimizer> I just read the documentation, made a few guesses, and my intended setup worked on the first try
00:28 < Zyxer> Yes
00:28 < Zyxer> Same for me when I made a router
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00:29 < Zyxer> Third time I touched OpenBSD was to make my own router
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00:31 < mesaoptimizer> Zyxer: what hardware did you use to make your own router?
00:32 < Zyxer> APU6 or something
00:32 < Zyxer> Let me double check
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00:34 < Zyxer> If I am not mistaken this exact model APU6B4
00:34 < Zyxer> Producer is PCEngine or something
00:34 < Zyxer> The schematics are available and it came with open source motherboard firmware (BIOS, Coreboot instead or BIOS or UEFI)
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00:35 < Zyxer> CPU inside is AMD, and I guess that chip is not open source or the CPU firmware things
00:35 < sibiria> it's also a soon-to-be defunct piece of hardware, unfortunately
00:35 < Zyxer> Wat
00:35 < Zyxer> Wait wat?
00:35 < Zyxer> Explain yourself?
00:36 < Zyxer> Elaborate? Please?
00:36 < sibiria> pcengines shut down shop roughly a year ago. support will end in maybe 12-24 months from now
00:36 < Zyxer> Yes? 
00:36 < sibiria> the proprietor is moving on to new adventures
00:36 < Zyxer> I'm not following. Why would my router stop working?
00:36 < Zyxer> Why would it become defunct?
00:36 < sibiria> i'm not talking about your issue of it. i'm talking about the product
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00:37 < sibiria> for project longevity the APUs are unfortunately no longer viable options
00:37 < Zyxer> Oh, yea. They stopped the production so now it is just what is left in vendors stock or maybe PC engine has a stock as well 
00:38 < sibiria> they probably have a few left to cover warranty
00:38 < Zyxer> Do you know of some similar Open source product I can use as router? 
00:39 < Zyxer> Are PCEngine making something new to replace them?
00:39 < ponycat> possibly this https://protectli.com/
00:39 < sibiria> no, he's moving on entirely. possibly retiring, who knows
00:39 < sibiria> protectli is not open source. it's rebranded chinese OEM hardware
00:40 < ponycat> ahh
00:40 < sibiria> off the top of my head Hard Kernel stands out as providing schematics etc. for their products. they do run on closed firmware, though - at least the x86 stuff. not sure if any of it can run on coreboot
00:40 < Zyxer> It runs coreboot at least
00:40 < ponycat> I don't even know if you can use openbsd on it anyway
00:40 < sibiria> Hardkernel*
00:41 < Zyxer> So this is not some open hardware at all? https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw4c/
00:42 < Zyxer> Yea no schematics at least
00:42 < sibiria> protectli buys the hardware from a chinese OEM and puts their trademark on it
00:42 < Zyxer> I see
00:42 < sibiria> they are one of 4-5 retailers of the same boards
00:43 < sibiria> Qotom is another
00:43 < sibiria> same hw, difference chassis etc.
00:44 < Zyxer> Hardkernel? The O-droid manufacturer?
00:45 < Zyxer> But o-droids don't have enough NICs/RJ45 ports for router usage
00:46 < mesaoptimizer> Zyxer: aww yess I want to make an APU6 router
00:49 < Zyxer> There are more APUs
00:49 < Zyxer> With different amount of NICs 
00:50 < Lucas6023> not really? APU4 also has 4. The rest have 3 or 2.
00:50 < Zyxer> mesaoptimizer: https://www.pcengines.ch/order.htm Check the list of retailers there
00:50 < Zyxer> Lucas6023: The APU6 has one port that is for optical fibre
00:51 < Zyxer> So only 3 RJ45 ports
00:51 < Zyxer> on APU6. 
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00:52 < Lucas6023> yes, but it's still 4 NICs, which is the terminology you used.
00:52 < Zyxer> True, my mistake. I meant different ports and such, for compatibility
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00:54 < sibiria> odroid h3 has two 2.5 gbit NICs
00:54 < sibiria> i believe some of hardkernel's arm-based boards also have multiple NICs
00:55 < martian67> 2.5gbit is a miserable standard ugh
00:55 < sibiria> i disagree
00:55 < martian67> the nics usually suck ass too! idk about what the odroid uses
00:56 < martian67> the intel ones are a buggy mess, do not buy them
00:56 < Zyxer> I need minimum 3 NICs/RJ45 ports
00:56 < martian67> they struggle with even gigabit connectivity
00:56 < sibiria> Zyxer: VLAN
00:56 < Zyxer> Yes I will make a virtual cable 
00:56 < martian67> which nessisitates a much more expensive switch
00:56 < sibiria> expensive? :P
00:56 < martian67> APUs are now unobtanium
00:56 < sibiria> lots of $30 soho switches have vlan....
00:57 < martian67> PCengines is basicly closing down
00:57 < martian67> sibiria: like what?
00:57 < Zyxer> No but I meant I don't need 3 NICs per se but I need at least 3 RJ45 ports, even if it is one NIC behind that acts like switch
00:57 < sibiria> martian67: you can pick almost anything from netgear or tp-link, to name two common examples
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00:58 < Zyxer> One for incomming internet, and 2 for my desktop and BF's desktop
00:58 < martian67> sibiria: i want specific examples
00:58 < sibiria> odroid h3 uses realtek 8125 for its 2.5 gbit interfaces. it's fully stable and performs well on openbsd, and even better on linux
00:58 < martian67> from my experience vlan support from either vendor carries a hefty premium
00:59 < sibiria> from my experience the opposite
00:59 < Zyxer> Wat
01:00 < sibiria> martian67: i use netgear GS305E
01:00 < sibiria> i paid €30 for it new 4 years ago
01:00 < sibiria> runs like a champ, just as expected
01:01 < Zyxer> I'll just buy another APU from teklager. They still have them in stock
01:01 < martian67> sibiria: interesting, things have shifted a bit then
01:02 < sibiria> tp-link has several 5-8 port unmanaged SoHo switches with VLAN support as well
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01:02 < sibiria> price range the same, around €40 give or take
01:02 < Zyxer> But are they open source enough?
01:02 < Zyxer> Do they run OpenBSD?
01:02 < martian67> how can an unmanaged switch have vlan support
01:02 < sibiria> the switch? no :D
01:02 < sibiria> odroid h3? open source schematic
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01:03 < martian67> how are you going to assign ports?
01:03 < sibiria> martian67: i have not had to configure anything on mine
01:03 < Zyxer> Yea but odroid h3 is sadly to few ports for me to connect all things
01:03 < sibiria> Zyxer: so get a switch?
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01:03 < sibiria> i run wired and wireless lan through my switch
01:03 < martian67> sibiria:  dumb ethernet switches "support" vlans in the sense traffic will pass, but its not actually useful
01:03 < sibiria> fed into openbsd
01:03 < martian67> what else would you do with them?
01:04 < Zyxer> But then I need switch and access point hardware T-T
01:04 < sibiria> well i'd say it is useful because it allows me to tuck my wireless network into a vlan and run it all into a single port...
01:04 < martian67> if you cant use a management interface to assign ports to vlans
01:04 < Zyxer> And not sure about port forwarding on a switch
01:05 < sibiria> GS305E probably has a do-gooder windows management tool. i don't know. what i do know is that i don't *need* it to get vlan to work on it
01:05 < martian67> so how do you assign stuff to vlans?
01:05 < martian67> am i missing something here
01:05 < Zyxer> I fear no man, but closed schematics and firmware, that scares me
01:05 < sibiria> yes, the "intelligent" part about the switch
01:06 < sibiria> this isn't 2003. these things mostly Just Work
01:06 < martian67> so how is it configured
01:06 < sibiria> and my vlan is not visible on any port except the one it "learns" to be the uplink
01:07 < Zyxer> Magic spyware. It hears you say "If only the vlan worked.." And then they configure it magically
01:07 < sibiria> VLAN auto-negotiation, i suppose?
01:07 < sibiria> MVRP or what it's called
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01:11 < Zyxer> Damn, my local reseller allows for laser engravings
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01:11 < Zyxer> They want SVG file. SVG fish APU fish OS 100% worth it
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01:12 < mesaoptimizer> Zyxer: APU6 is pretty expensive tbh
01:12 < Zyxer> Yes, there are cheaper APUs
01:13 < mesaoptimizer> how do you use your router?
01:13 < Zyxer> But they all have a dedicated NIC for each RJ45 port. So they are more expensive. 
01:13 < sibiria> odroid h3 was on the whole sort of expensive, but i don't regret it. for being x86 i think it's a fantastic piece of hardware to run openbsd on
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01:13 < Zyxer> I take the RJ45 cable with incomming internet
01:13 < Zyxer> Plug in
01:13 < Zyxer> then one out to server, and another out to secondary router 
01:14 < mesaoptimizer> I see. You have a home server
01:14 < mesaoptimizer> what is the secondary router for?
01:14 < Zyxer> Secondary router is for home devices
01:14 < Zyxer> Wireless and desktops
01:14 < mesaoptimizer> I see
01:14 < mesaoptimizer> why not use a wireless access point instead?
01:14 < mesaoptimizer> and connect your desktop directly to your APU6 router
01:14 < Zyxer> Because secondary router was free, old old router
01:14 < mesaoptimizer> makes sense
01:15 < Zyxer> Because BF's desktop also wants internet cable 
01:15 < Zyxer> so I need one more RJ45 on the router to connect directly to it for all devices. 
01:16 < Zyxer> Or I move to another place that has incoming fibre available, then one RJ45 will be freed up
01:16 < Zyxer> And then I can just insert some OpenBSD compatible wifi chip
01:16 < Zyxer> I found SVG file
01:17 < Zyxer> Time to get laser engraved fish on some APU that runs fische
01:18 < Zyxer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk0yUnSHlCw
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01:19 < mesaoptimizer> oh
01:19 < sibiria> i run everything into the switch, and untangle the VLANs on openbsd
01:19 < mesaoptimizer> yeah, three RJ45 ports
01:19 < sibiria> two ports suffice for my routing needs
01:20 < mesaoptimizer> It sure would be cool to get the OpenBSD blowfish engraved on the APU6
01:20 < mesaoptimizer> sibiria: nice!
01:21 < Zyxer> I'm gonna order another APU, a cheaper one, and engrave that one (the APU6 is not only in a closet, but a hidden internet locker inside the closet. No one gonna see primary router)
01:21 < mesaoptimizer> err, why not
01:22 < Zyxer> Omg, my local reseller is running out of stock DX
01:22 < Zyxer> A few models left
01:22 < mesaoptimizer> I though teklager was your local reseller
01:22 < Zyxer> Yes
01:22 < mesaoptimizer> oh no
01:22 < sibiria> the odroid h3 can also accommodate an internal 4-port switch, for a total of 6 discrete interfaces
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01:23 < Zyxer> I don't want another APU6, only need one with fibre capabilities
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01:24 < Zyxer> sibiria: I'll keep thjat in mind for the future. The fish engraving just, it made me drool 
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01:24 < mesaoptimizer> how much storage should one get for the APU6 btw
01:24 < Zyxer> I have 16GB I think 
01:24 < Lucas6023> given its a router, I used the 30GB disks one
01:24 < mesaoptimizer> hmm. I could use the router itself as a home server
01:24 < Zyxer> Unless you gonna use it as server I think 16 is still overkill
01:25 < Zyxer> Yea, but the APUs aren't the most powerfull. Especially not with OpenBSD since the single thread/core performance on them isn't the best. 
01:26 < mesaoptimizer> awww
01:26 < Zyxer> But if you gonna use it for storage things, like a cloud or something, I don't think it will bottleneck too much
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01:27 < Zyxer> It really depends what kind of server I guess. I mean, I think it should be able to handle minecraft if you just give it enough RAM
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01:27 < mesaoptimizer> naw, it is supposed to be mainly for storage and backups
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01:28 < Zyxer> Network speed reaches around... I think 500-600mbit/s if you run OpenBSD, the other choices that allow for hyperthreading or multithreading or whatever it is called can reach around 800mbit/s on APUs
01:28 < Zyxer> mesaoptimizer: Then shouldn't be issue. I think. 
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01:30 < Zyxer> Add more storage or connect using the SATA ports for slower but cheaper storage
01:31 < Zyxer> Or well, they use mSATA so I guess the SATA ports aren't slower
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01:31 < mesaoptimizer> there's also USB ports
01:32 < mesaoptimizer> so I can connect both my external HDDs to it
01:32 < Zyxer> Yes
01:32 < mesaoptimizer> although unfortunately I'm not quite sure what I would do with it once I do that
01:32 < Zyxer> ssh 
01:32 < Zyxer> for scp/sftp or rsync 
01:32 < mesaoptimizer> yeah but all the port forwarding stuff
01:32 < Zyxer> Easy
01:33 < mesaoptimizer> noo, you aren't going to recommend tailscale I hope
01:33 < Zyxer> Plenty of guides for that. 
01:33 < Zyxer> Wat
01:33 < Zyxer> Port forwarding is pf rule, should be in man page. If not there are many guides on how to setup openBSD router
01:33 < mesaoptimizer> well, when your ISP doesn't allow you to have a public IP, tailscale gives you an alternative
01:33 < Zyxer> Oh
01:34 < mesaoptimizer> oh I mean the issue is having a public IP to connect to from outside your local network
01:34 < Zyxer> why not get a cheap VPS? Then ssh tunnel all traffic through it
01:34 < mesaoptimizer> whoa
01:34 < Zyxer> Will act like a VPN on top of giving you a public IP
01:34 < mesaoptimizer> that will work
01:34 < mesaoptimizer> thank you
01:35 < Zyxer> sshuttle or something + some extra step I guess
01:35 < Zyxer> mesaoptimizer: You're welcome :D
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02:22 < vortexx> Zyxer: I tested FreeBSD on my APU6, running pf knocked 400Mbits off and reduced it to OpenBSD speed as a router
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02:22 < vortexx> (with a dead simple ruleset)
02:22 < vortexx> APU design is coming up to 10 years old now
02:28 < thrig> practically late Jurassic
02:28 < Zyxer> Wat
02:29 < Zyxer> Let me do a speedtest
02:31 < Zyxer> Damn, way less than marketed
02:32 < Zyxer> I get 347mbit/s up 
02:32 < Zyxer> and 264mbit/s Down
02:32 < Zyxer> (No idea if bf is doing something that throttles, but shouldn't up be similar to down speed? I am at office)
02:33 < Zyxer> I am okay with those speeds anyway. I value openness more than speed.
02:33 < vortexx> yeah that's about what I get with on a gigabit sync line
02:33 < vortexx> FTTH
02:34 < Zyxer> I am on not gigabit. I am on 500/500
02:34 < Zyxer> What is FTTH?
02:34 < vortexx> thrig: yes isn't it funny how we're relying on hw this old... it's not like tech has stood still but people still like then
02:34 < vortexx> FTTH=fiber to the home
02:34 < vortexx> I too value openness over speed
02:35 < Zyxer> I am behind a NAT that has fibre, appartment complex
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04:39 < rnkn> hmm no p5-carton in ports...
04:40 < rnkn> makes me wonder if openbsd disagrees with the carton methodology
04:42 < Zyxer> Probably just no one that has ported it, or it was orphaned
04:43 < Zyxer> You mean the p5 JS thing?
04:43 < Zyxer> rnkn?
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04:44 < rnkn> Zyxer: carton is like ruby's bundler but for perl
04:44 < rnkn> installs everything into ./local
04:45 < Zyxer> Perhaps it is named differently in OpenBSD ports/repo
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04:49 < rnkn> hmm I've had a good look, appears missing
04:49 < rnkn> for the curious: https://metacpan.org/pod/Carton
04:50 < Zyxer> Yea, not many packages with carton 
04:51 < Zyxer> Color me surprised. OpenBSD comes with perl in base even
04:52 < thrig> openbsd might usually instead have a p5-* port, or you can instead use local::lib or ...
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04:58 < rnkn> yeah I've looked under p5-*, and searched the ports repo, no dice
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04:59 < rnkn> local::lib is an option, but not ideal, but it's easy enough to install carton via cpan
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07:57 < lenny1337> are there any better irc clients than catgirl?
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07:59 < il> subjective
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08:01 < IcePic> il: objection sustained
08:01 < il> I've read good things about soju bounce, senpai client, and goguma client for phones
08:01 < il> s/bounce/bouncer/
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08:02 < il> Repos for all of those are on sr.ht
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08:05 < lenny1337> looks like senpai is in golang
08:06 < il> I think all of those are in golang
08:06 < Reinhilde> I use weechat myself, but it seems to have gone backwards over the years
08:06 < zelest> irssi does the job pretty nicely
08:06 < il> I used to use irssi, but for the past 4 or so years, I've been on weechat
08:06 < il> Maybe more, I don't remember that well
08:07 < zelest> I've stuck with irssi since around 2000
08:07 < il> I just run it in a tmux session on a vps... I don't have to host a bouncer that way.
08:07 < il> zelest, I was born in 2000 :D
08:07 < Reinhilde> owo
08:07 < lenny1337> tmux my beloved
08:08 < il> I haven't slept last night, but I don't want to go to sleep now because I know a package is going to get delivered.
08:08 < il> If it doesn't get delivered withing an hour, I'm giving up lol
08:09 < zelest> il, i was born in the 80's :)
08:09 < lenny1337> born in the 80s and using irssi since 2000
08:09 < lenny1337> wowzas
08:09 < il> I started on IRC in my early teens as well
08:09 < zelest> also, I thought people born in the 2000 used some electronjs client, written all in js
08:10 < il> I wish I was online 20 years earlier, though
08:10 < il> I feel like internet was better back then lol
08:10 < zelest> it was :)
08:10 < zelest> a bit slower, but better
08:10 < IcePic> yes, but if you were there in the times, today becomes a dark sad place
08:10 < zelest> really though, smartphones and social media ruined it
08:10 < lenny1337> cool thing about free will
08:10 < il> I don't have social media, probably won't have a smartphone after my current one dies.
08:11 < lenny1337> just don't use smartphones and social media
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08:11 < zelest> i just degoogled my smartphone :)
08:12 < zelest> if only there was a BSD-based OS for it. :D
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08:12 < mesaoptimizer> lenny1337: I just use catgirl lol
08:12 < lenny1337> pinephones are cool
08:12 < il> I read a good article about keeping up with 'tools' (in this case, the irc client is a tool)
08:13 < mesaoptimizer> I tried using chat.sr.ht but after a while I moved back to catgirl
08:13 < mesaoptimizer> catgirl is very comfy
08:13 < mesaoptimizer> just like openBSD
08:13 < il> There's an optimal frequency with which to revisit tooling. I feel like for IRC, the interval should be long.
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08:14 < lenny1337> mesaoptimizer: yea it's just plain \simple
08:14 < mesaoptimizer> zelest: there doesn't seem to be a good smartphone device imo
08:14 < lenny1337> i don't get the need for smartphones
08:15 < il> lenny1337, it's overkill
08:15 < il> well... I don't know.
08:15 < il> I guess people manage to find some use for any tool, no matter how powerful it is.
08:15 < mesaoptimizer> I use a user-hostile cheap Android for Google Maps, bank account apps, and SMS
08:15 < Reinhilde> il, do you have cofe
08:16 < zelest> mesaoptimizer, I went with the Fairphone 5.. which slowly is growing on me..
08:16 < il> I was looking at old mp3 players last night. I'd want one which has podcasts/audiobooks supports (i.e. it should be able to save bookmarks/last-played position)
08:16 < il> There are none
08:16 < il> Reinhilde, cofe?
08:16 < Reinhilde> mesaoptimizer, are you a gnuhead
08:16 < Reinhilde> il, coffee
08:16 < il> Ah, I don't drink coffee
08:16 < il> straight edge, xXx and all that
08:17 < lenny1337> no coffee???
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08:18 < mesaoptimizer> no coffee!
08:18 < IcePic> that means death
08:18 < Reinhilde> very odd thing to be straight edge about
08:20 < lenny1337> coffee addiction is real
08:20 < renaud> zelest: actually, greed and stupidity ruined it
08:20 < mesaoptimizer> renaud: I do not know what a gnuhead is
08:20 < mesaoptimizer> Reinhilde: ^
08:20 < zelest> renaud, that too
08:21 < Voyager_MP> after upgrading to current today I get this msyscall ef268b9e000 a8000 error
08:21 < Reinhilde> ok good
08:21 < Reinhilde> anyway
08:21 < Reinhilde> i'm gonna go away
08:21 < il> Reinhilde, true straight edge doesn't do coffee
08:21 < Reinhilde> i 
08:21 < Reinhilde> i c
08:21 < il> I just downloaded catgirl, I might play with it a bit later today, after I sleep lol
08:22 < il> If it's easy enough to setup, I might very likely transfer over to it
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08:22 < lenny1337> it's kinda suckless
08:23 < il> lenny1337, are there config files?
08:23 < lenny1337> nope
08:23 < lenny1337> just cli options
08:23 < il> it has config files
08:23 < lenny1337> wait wat
08:23 < il> I just searched the manpage for config
08:23 < il> it has config files
08:23 < ponycat> ~/.config/catgirl yeah
08:23 < il> so not suckless haha
08:23 < lenny1337> oh man i could've had a config this whole time
08:24 < lenny1337> i've been running this long command every time
08:24 < Reinhilde> owo
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08:26 < mesaoptimizer> https://nitter.net/_saagarjha/status/1734485963219653094 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=170234892604404&w=2 hmm
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08:27 < il> we do a little trolling
08:28 < lenny1337> poor theo
08:31 < brocashelm> wait. i thought straight edge meant no drugs, drinking, or smoking by default?
08:31 < lenny1337> drinking coffee for the caffeine is drug use
08:31 < brocashelm> most teas have caffeine
08:31 < brocashelm> then no dark chocolate :\
08:32 < il> brocashelm, dark chocolate has caffeine?
08:32 < brocashelm> yes
08:32 < il> darn it
08:32 < brocashelm> due to higher amounts of cacao
08:33 < il> ah, it's 12mg per oz (~30grams) on average
08:33 < il> That's not much
08:33 < lenny1337> just found out openbsd uses inline asm in amd64 headers
08:33 < brocashelm> still a drug (caffeine)
08:33 < brocashelm> i drink coffee more because i like the taste
08:33 < lenny1337> that's not drug use then
08:33 < il> I like the taste as well, there's decaf, though
08:33 < brocashelm> prefer dark roasts (those have less caffeine than lighter)
08:33 < il> I like the aroma/smell as well
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08:34 < brocashelm> i prefer green tea lately
08:34 < brocashelm> with matcha
08:34 < il> green tea is nice, matcha is nice
08:34 < brocashelm> and funny, i had a thought about coffee and the types of teas like linux compared to *BSDs (as classification)
08:34 < il> as far as proper teas go (not herbal teas), I like varieties of black tea the best
08:34 < brocashelm> like how linux is the coffee with the roasts being "distros"
08:35 < brocashelm> and green tea, black tea, white tea, oolong tea, etc. are the separate *BSD operating systems
08:35 < il> Interesting
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08:35 < Reinhilde> mh
08:35 < lenny1337> nerd
08:35 < Reinhilde> indeed
08:35 < brocashelm> since a lot of people insist on calling openbsd, freebsd, netbsd, etc. """"distros"""" of ONE operating system 8-)
08:35 < lenny1337> openbsd has to be coffee cuz it's the best
08:36 < il> openbsd has to be water
08:36 < brocashelm> it's transparent
08:36 < il> it's in everything
08:36 < brocashelm> if it's bad, it'll usually show it
08:36 < lenny1337> il: true....
08:36 < lenny1337> ponderosa puff made the water clean
08:37  * IcePic turns water into whine
08:38 < brocashelm> stuff like solaris or oracle would be yerba mate
08:38 < brocashelm> ;)
08:39  * sonya last couple of years grow various grass for drinks and tea is gone from ration.. but coffee still in game :)
08:44 < mesaoptimizer> ubuntu is club mate
08:45 < lenny1337> ubuntu is boba
08:45 < lenny1337> overhyped and gross
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08:59 < meorly> i reiterate my normative recommendation of lan gui ren
09:04  * bulls increments meorly's counter
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09:17 < spo0n> question: is openBSD runnable on pi5? the install instructions don't yet mention it and are in general a bit hazy due to pi apparently requiring some bs magic code from sd card even if youre booting from an usb stick
09:17 < meorly> i remember on pi3 you need to do the magic once to burn an OTP that enables usb boot
09:18 < spo0n> I assume the magic isn
09:18 < meorly> but on pi4 and later usb boot is enabled by default *IIRC*
09:18 < lenny1337> pi4 needs a firmware update or something for that
09:18 < spo0n> t bsd specific meaning I shouldn't run into huge hurdle?
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10:25 < renaud> spo0n: if you can successfully run OpenBSD on rpi5, please keep us informed
10:30 < Ltning> I have a tiny fix for the pkg_mgr port, which broke somewhat recently due to some changes(?) in the base perl libs for package management. Anyone feel like updating the port? :)
10:31 < IcePic> Ltning: the maintainer of it sounds like a really good place to start
10:32 < Ltning> Is Landry active still? The tool itself seems to be from 2012 or something..
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10:33 < lenny1337> does anyone know of any BSD/ISC licensed irc clients? i just found out catgirl is GPLv3
10:35 < IcePic> the old ircII
10:37 < IcePic> quick grep says epic5, ircII, swirc in ports at least. 
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10:40 < lenny1337> IcePic: thanks, i'll take a look at them
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11:09 < pardis> an IRC client seems like a peculiar thing to care much about the licence of
11:09 < pardis> planning to ship some modified binaries for a chat protocol nobody uses anymore?
11:09 < lenny1337> i'm a purist
11:10 < pardis> may want to delete cvs, perl and libreadline too
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11:11 < lenny1337> don't have libreadline
11:11 < lenny1337> only libedit which is 3 clause bsd iirc
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11:12 < pardis> libreadline is in base
11:13 < lenny1337> libedit is in base
11:13 < lenny1337> wait sec
11:13 < lenny1337> what uses libreadline
11:13 < pardis> no idea, but it's in base
11:14 < pardis> gdb, apparently
11:14 < pardis> found using for f in /usr/bin/*; do ldd "$f" | grep -q readline && echo "$f"; done 2>/dev/null
11:15 < lenny1337> ok well my purist setup is a work in progress
11:16 < lenny1337> openbsd just happened to be the best starting point
11:16 < pardis> hopefully running on a loongson cpu
11:17 < lenny1337> ah shit coreboot is GPLv2
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18:07 < Zyxer> Yes, OpenBSD is best starting point. The devs try to keep it as permissive as possible
18:07 < Zyxer> I think they rewrote some software due to GPL license 
18:08 < Zyxer> They removed bash from base due to license change or something
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18:10 < thrig> bash was in base?
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18:11 < phy1729> bash was never in base
18:11 < Zyxer> I think so. I can't remember installing it and one day, upgrading to 7.3 or 7.4 a diff removed path to bash in a shell list file
18:11 < Zyxer> oh
18:11 < Zyxer> Wat
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18:12 < phy1729> It may have been removed as a dependency from some package you have installed
18:12 < Zyxer> Oh, right. 
18:12 < Zyxer> Yea yea, that could be it. 
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18:13 < Zyxer> Some dependencies are very bad. I don't remember the name of the software but it had like 4 different sound servers as dependency
18:13 < Zyxer> sndio, pulseaudio, alsa, and pipewire
18:14 < Zyxer> I was frustration 
18:14 < Zyxer> OH WAIT it was an emulator 
18:14 < Zyxer> on freeBSD, not Open
18:15 < Zyxer> Still what software would need 4 different sound servers?
18:15 < avemestr> It sounds like an emulator trying to emulate the node.js development model.
18:15 < Zyxer> Hahahaha
18:15 < avemestr> See also: https://www.davidhaney.io/npm-left-pad-have-we-forgotten-how-to-program/
18:16 < uwharrie> depends on what it was emulating. if it was trying to provide emulation for any possible linux binary, it'd make sense to include all the possible sound servers in current use
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18:19 < thrig> or it's easier for the ports system to include 'em all
18:21 < vortexx>  Zyxer: are you sure you're not confusing bash removed on 7.4 with the root shell changes on FreeBSD 14.0 which prompted you to redo the root shell entry?
18:22 < Zyxer> Yes, I had not used FreeBSD until like 3 weeks ago or 2 months or so
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18:23 < Zyxer> I remember reading dev notes about bash from OpenBSD saying they removed it (can't remember fron where, may not have been base considering it never was there) due to "unacceptable" license change
18:24 < uwharrie> you sure you're not thinking of macOS?
18:24 < Zyxer> Bash took up GPLv3 license this year if I am not mistaken
18:24 < Zyxer> I never in my life used macOS
18:24 < Bradipo> I've been using OpenBSD since 2.6 timeframe... I don't remember bash ever being in it.
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18:25 < uwharrie> I know that occasionally a package (like fzf) will ship with a shell script with bashisms in it, so it gets a run dependency until the script can be patched or made portable upstream
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18:28 < Zyxer> Upgrading GPU, adding M.2 for a dualboot on different drives
18:31 < xse> iirc the bash dependency was removed from fzf recently
18:31 < xse> yeah https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=169747931206450
18:32 < uwharrie> yep
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18:51 < seninha> Hi, I'm trying to make my XBOX 360 Wireless controller work on OpenBSD (although it is "wireless" it actually communicates via USB through an USB receiver that connects to up to 4 controllers).  I recompiled the kernel with this patch: https://termbin.com/hz98
18:51 < seninha> It then makes usbdevs(8) -v and dmesg(8) output this: https://termbin.com/lyc9
18:52 < seninha> However, when pairing the controller with the receiver, the controller does not recognize itself as attached to the receiver. I think some kind of answer from the driver needs to be performed, but I'm not sure.
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19:17 < Code_Bleu> I've hot added a disk (virtio) to an OpenBSD instance.  Is there a way I can 'rescan' to pick up the new disk?
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19:21 < brynet> no
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19:24 < meena> Code_Bleu: if it's not showing up in dmesg, you have to reboot. pretty sure OpenBSD doesn't have a devd / udev / etc thing, so devices are only enumerated at startup
19:24 < Code_Bleu> meena: thanks!
19:26 < meena> makes me wonder if NetBSD does it differently 
19:27 < jca> being able to add virtio disks at runtime would be nice
19:27 < thrig> patches, etc
19:28 < phy1729> I don't think you need to tell jca that
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19:29 < jca> I'm not sure I would enjoy diving in the virtio spec, at that point ;)
19:31 < thrig> that's -2 sanity points
19:31 < meena> jca: I'm working on virtio vsock driver for FreeBSD, and good thing cuz I know almost nothing about virtio, and a bit less about socket(9)
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19:39 < Code_Bleu> now I'm trying to format and mount the disk.  I can see it as sd1, and can do fdisk sd1 and it prints stuff out., but when i try fdisk /dev/sd1 I get no such file or directory
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19:52 < Code_Bleu> how can i get into an interactive session to delete, create..partitions of this disk?  fdisk /dev/sd1 is not working for me
19:52 < Code_Bleu> meena: ? :pointup:
19:53 < Code_Bleu> ...dang emoji stuff
19:55 < pardis> if only OpenBSD came with documentation
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19:56 < il> lol
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19:58 < jonadab> In fairness to him, it is occasionally a minor hassle to get to the documentation when one is in the middle of trying to install the system (which is typically when things like fdisk are most likely to be used); you can of course look it up online, but you have to be careful to get the OpenBSD documentation specifically, because if you just search for fdisk docs online, it's going to come up with Linux 
19:58 < jonadab> docs.
19:59 < thrig> sensible would be to go to the openbsd website, not whatever the race to the bottom coughs up
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20:03 < jonadab> Sure, or at least put +openbsd in your search terms.
20:03 < jonadab> But this is something everyone has to learn to do at some point.
20:04 < IcePic> thrig: but expertsexchange.com links work so well for my brownbuntu issues?
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20:11 < avemestr> Code_Bleu: Some keywords for you: "/dev/MAKEDEV /dev/sd1", man fdisk, man disklabel, man newfs. Or: https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#omf
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20:27 < Code_Bleu> 1. I was looking at man pages, and online docs, but it just wasn't sticking out to me.  Docs weren't that clear either...but I was able to figure it out. I did fdisk -e /dev/sd1 and then edited "partition #3"??  this is where docs I found wasn't clear.  Then I told it to use the whole disk.  Used newfs sd1c - which again wasn't clear what to do, other than "c" is supposed to be for whole disk
20:27 < Code_Bleu> partition I think?
20:29 < Code_Bleu> jonadab: appreciate your perspective on my question.  At least not everyone assumes everyone doesn't RTFM.
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20:30 < jonadab> Also be aware that the word "partition" means two different things.  If you're coming from a Linux background, you wouldn't necessarily be familiar with both of them.
20:30 < Code_Bleu> which I'm not
20:30 < jonadab> Not coming from Linux, or not familiar with both kinds of partition?
20:30 < Code_Bleu> I've only been messing with BSD for a couple of weeks
20:31 < Code_Bleu> I am coming from Linux background...but not familiar with all the ins and outs of BSD :) 
20:31 < jonadab> Ah.
20:32 < jonadab> Ok, so, you're probably already familiar with how fdisk divides the disk into overall partitions.  But in BSD world, disklable divides one of those into partitions, each of which can have a filesystem on it.
20:32 < jonadab> Other operating systems see one BSD partition.  BSD sees several partitions, which can each have a filesystem.
20:33 < Code_Bleu> yeh, I was confused when i did fdisk on the sd1 and i saw 4 "partitions" already 0 through 3 and no way to delete those or add...that I could tell
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20:33 < jonadab> Back when the disk's partition table only supported 4 partitions, and all the docs in the Unix world recommended separate partitions for things like /usr and /var, this was actually important and useful.
20:34 < Code_Bleu> so I just looked at the disk with the boot OS on it to see how it was setup...and it had the partition i needed to create on # 3....so i just did the same thing on the sd1 disk :) 
20:34 < jonadab> But yeah, disklable is what you need to look at I think.
20:34 < jonadab> *disklabel
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21:42 < sonya> btw, is bsd.rd during 1st boot also do MAKEDEV $disk to provide fdisk and disklabel an access?
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21:44 < sonya> if i quit to shell immediately, afair, fdisk (in bsd.rd) see nothing.. it sees disk only after some kind of bootstrap/init..
21:44 < uwharrie> sonya: I believe that's handled in http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/distrib/miniroot/install.sub?rev=1.1257&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
21:45 < sonya> thanks!
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21:48 < sonya> make_dev() {…} yep!
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