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05:41 < unicard> hello, i tried to read the man pages at man.openbsd.org but the server seems to be offline, could some please verify this. Thank you
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05:49 < unicard> a found: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=170335911200538&w=2
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05:56 < oldlaptop> man.bsd.lv is a man.cgi instance with (among other things) the 7.0 manual pages
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06:16 < rahl> Does anyone know of or have suggestions for a means of group/team chat (with channels) that I can host on openbsd?
06:17 < rahl> I'm personally drawn to IRC, but my partners would likely not appreciate the idea - I may try to force it a little anyway
06:17 < rahl> I really don't want anything with stupid heavy front ends - we just need a place to keep topical discussions compartmentalised
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07:13 < jtbx> rocket.chat is quite nice, I've never really used it extensively though
07:13 < jtbx> it's made in javascript so it should run on openbsd :)
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07:16 < jtbx> there's also XMPP which you might be more interested in, their website is sadly down right now
07:22 < meorly> rahl: rocket chat works for us
07:22 < meorly> you can also consider disqus and jami
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07:23 < meorly> I _assume_ all these would work on server side in openbsd
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07:36 < rahl> jtbx: I should have mentioned I'd like to avoid in-browser stuff - tends to be janky and with noisy UI's - but I will still look at and consider rocket.chat. Thanks
07:36 < rahl> Sad to hear XMPP is down indeed...
07:37 < rahl> I was running my own xmpp server a while back, but had to take the box offline - it certainly would be a good option
07:37 < rahl> meorly: thanks, will look into those also
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07:45 < meorly> rocket.chat has a desktop app
07:56 < rahl> yeah, but electron :s
07:57 < rahl> I do still appreciate the suggestion - particularly given I did not specify my distaste for modern bloat ;) well I suppose I did mention "stupid heavy front ends" 
07:59 < meorly> well if you want to swing in the other direction, there's this idea 
08:00 < meorly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgV6M1LyfNY
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08:01 < rahl> I love openbsd for simplicity - I like to keep in that vein where possible
08:01 < rahl> checking the link
08:02 < meorly> tldr using git (gitlab/github etc) for all your project management
08:04 < rahl> intriguing - we're leaning toward that already - not sure how that might work for topical discussion though
08:05 < rahl> I'm also involved with another project where we're trying to use gitea for the basis of everything - definitely tricky at times.
08:05 < meorly> using tickets in gitlab
08:05 < meorly> i run gitea for personal projects, it caused me no trouble
08:05 < meorly> I dont know what it'd look like for team work
08:06 < rahl> It's fine for code repo's - but that project is trying to use it for broader ideas. bending it's usecase somewhat :)
08:07 < rahl> tickets could definitely work for tracking topical conversations - I was originally considering something like a forum and I guess that fits the bill - just wondering if colleagues want something more realtime
08:08 < rahl> of course wanting more realtime, and it being actually useful or necessary are two quite separate things :)
08:10 < meorly> disqus is _excellent_ for conversations
08:10 < meorly> I have never seen a properly configured jira instance, but disqus kind of just wors
08:10 < meorly> works
08:11 < rahl> good to know
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10:21 < avemestr> Fossil SCM might be a possibility as well: https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki
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11:17 < rahl> avemestr: interesting. cheers. though switching from git (at least for source) is not gonna happen for now at least.
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11:18 < rahl> Always wondered what SCM stood for - is it really supply chain management? How horrid.
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11:19 < avemestr> Probably source control management in this context.
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11:22 < ivdsangen> software configuration management is what is meant i think
11:27 < rahl> darn overloaded acronyms
11:27 < rahl> Though either of those two are certianly preferable
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11:28 < rahl> Also, why have so many seemingly forgot that the first use of an acronym should come alongside the full words?
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13:18 < neutrin0> Hello, I have been using a ksh script with awk since many years and after the upgrade to 7.4 awk is segfaulting when I run it. How can I troubleshoot the origin of the problem ? I have a file name "awk.core"
13:20 < neutrin0> I ran :  $ gdb awk www/src/awk.core
13:21 < neutrin0> I get the following:
13:21 < neutrin0> Core was generated by `awk'.
13:21 < neutrin0> Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
13:21 < neutrin0> (no debugging symbols found)
13:21 < neutrin0> Loaded symbols for /usr/bin/awk
13:21 < neutrin0> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libm.so.10.1...done.
13:21 < neutrin0> Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libm.so.10.1
13:21 < neutrin0> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libc.so.97.1...done.
13:22 < neutrin0> Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libc.so.97.1
13:22 < neutrin0> Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld.so...Error while reading shared library symbols:
13:22 < neutrin0> Dwarf Error: wrong version in compilation unit header (is 4, should be 2) [in module /usr/libexec/ld.so]
13:22 < neutrin0> #0  0x000003e52ef99b8a in ?? () from /usr/bin/awk
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13:22 < zelest> dude, heard of pastebin?
13:22 < sibiria> did you run an old awk executable built on a previous version of openbsd?
13:23 < neutrin0> zelest: I am sorry about that
13:23 < sibiria> i.e. not the awk found in the base system, but using your own custom thingy
13:23 < sibiria> my gut feeling is that you're running a chroot environment
13:23 < sibiria> with olde awk in there
13:24 < sibiria> you forgot to update either awk or one of the libraries in there
13:25 < neutrin0> I am using the system's /usr/bin/awk
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13:27 < sibiria> ok. hard to figure out what's wrong from just that output since gdb doesn't want to proceed
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13:27 < sibiria> maybe you can share the invocation of awk and the content it's working with?
13:27 < neutrin0> This system was a fresh 7.2 install and sysupgraded since them
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13:52 < sibiria> neutrin0: do you get anything different if you run that core dump through lldb
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14:03 < neutrin0> https://phil.quebec/img/lldb-awk.jpg
14:03 < neutrin0> I get the following that matches the address from gdb but it is beyond my capacity
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14:05 < sibiria> would be better if you could put the textual output in a pastebin, maybe at dpaste.org or so
14:06 < jca> gdb from base is too old, better pkg_add gdb and use egdb
14:06 < sibiria> lldb is the right tool to use i believe
14:06 < sibiria> but it's surprising if the two have mismatching DWARF support
14:07 < jca> very few people use lldb, on clang architectures people are always advised to use gdb from ports
14:10 < neutrin0> should I just overwrite my base with a fresh base74 ?
14:10 < jca> neutrin0: do you mean using -current snapshots instead of -release?
14:11 < neutrin0> https://pastebin.com/ssEP8x6R <- for egdb output
14:11 < neutrin0> jca: I was thinking overwriting my 7.4 system with 7.4
14:13 < sibiria> did you maybe botch the upgrading process?
14:13 < jca> I doubt it'll help
14:13 < sibiria> would you like to share the awk call?
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14:14 < jca> neutrin0: awk has been updated in -current since 7.4, maybe those updates fixed your problem, maybe not
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14:16 < jca> neutrin0: you have to type "bt" to get a backtrace of the program at the moment it hit a SIGSEGV
14:16 < jca> in egdb
14:16 < jca> your awk executable doesn't have debug symbols, so the backtrace may or may not be useful.  I'd try to build awk with symbols and get a backtrace then.
14:17 < neutrin0> jca: output using "bt" : https://pastebin.com/SHE70pQ0
14:18 < jca> yeah, pretty much useless sadly
14:18 < sibiria> neutrin0: just out of curiosity... sha256 /usr/bin/awk /usr/lib/libm.so.10.1 /usr/lib/libc.so.97.1 /usr/libexec/ld.so | md5
14:19 < neutrin0> could it be a memory issue ? ie increasing values in /etc/login.conf
14:19 < sibiria> hard to say because you don't want to tell us about the invocation of awk causing it
14:19 < sibiria> e.g. if you're feeding it something gigantic it can't swallow
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14:22 < neutrin0> sibiria : https://pastebin.com/fGuRiGJr Here are the two invocations. I am using ssg (static site generator) from Roman Zolotarev https://romanzolotarev.com/ssg.html
14:23 < neutrin0> awk is used to concatenate HTML file content
14:25 < neutrin0> sibiria: $ sha256 /usr/bin/awk /usr/lib/libm.so.10.1 /usr/lib/libc.so.97.1 /usr/libexec/ld.so | md5
14:25 < neutrin0> 2d30c8d355eab1095fd9e34858516f98
14:26 < sibiria> so you are not running 7.4-stable
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14:27 < jca> ld.so is randomly relinked at boot, so its checksum isn't stable
14:27 < sibiria> ah yes of course
14:27 < sibiria> remove it from the list
14:28 < jca> really, getting a backtrace with symbols would help
14:28 < sibiria> yeah it's just a large hassle
14:28 < sibiria> when i fool around with that awk spaghetti i can't get it to croak
14:29 < jca> make obj; make all install DEBUG=-g # doesn't look that painful
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14:30 < jca> also awk doesn't seem to require a full source tree checkout to build
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14:31 < jca> cvs -d anoncvs@anoncvs.spacehopper.org:/cvs co -d awk src/usr.bin/awk && cd awk && { make obj; make DEBUG=-g; }
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14:40 < sibiria> a bit less hassle than rebuilding the entire system :p
14:40 < sibiria> but will that tag the rev of his local repo, or HEAD?
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14:46 < jca> sibiria: good point. co -d awk -rOPENBSD_7_4 src/usr.bin/awk
14:46 < jca> neutrin0: ^
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14:50 < neutrin0> so 
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14:52 < neutrin0> so I compiled -rOPENBSD_7_4 src/usr.bin/awk and  installed into /usr/bin/ and still get the segfault maybe it is the script itself causing the issue . I dont' know
14:52 < jca> the goal of rebuilding awk with debug symbols is to get a proper backtrace
14:52 < jca> did you build (and install) with DEBUG=-g?
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15:05 < neutrin0> yes
15:06 < neutrin0> jca: here is the output of "bt" : https://pastebin.com/bD2X2id8
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15:08 < sibiria> "make install"?
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15:16 < jca> neutrin0: I can't see how I can help further.  I would have expected a different output.
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16:03 < neutrin0> jca: you tried a lot, thank you. In the meantime I found that one of the input files is causing the problem, maybe because of a bad character that causes awk to crash. If I remove this Markdown file from my tree my website builds again and the script runs correctly. I would have liked awk to provide an error message instead of segfault
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16:29 < jca> neutrin0: maybe give this diff a try: https://pbot.rmdir.de/6eCCduqw7IU2W8f2iR8KTg
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16:30 < jca> of course make sure you reinstate the "faulty" file ;)
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17:23 < orwell> Hi, it seems to me cutter is broken and ghidra doesn't exists any more as package, right?
17:24 < orwell> Are there any other reverse engineering tools running on openbsd?
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17:25 < uwharrie> there's ghidra
17:26 < orwell> "Can't find ghidra" on snapshot with two different mirrors tried
17:28 < uwharrie> Ah, There's a note that it's got issues: ttps://openports.pl/path/security/ghidra
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17:30 < orwell> pkg_add complains about the missing library xml2.20.0 while installing cutter
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17:32 < jca> pkg_add -u
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17:34 < orwell> just did that yesterday evening. i'll try
17:37 < orwell> Okay, now i feel dumb. pkg_add -u before installing worked. I thought packages are only build if on the mailing list the output of the bulk build was posted. Sorry for the noise.
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17:40 < sibiria> providing option -U when installing new packages may be useful
17:42 < jca> pkg_add -U cutter # should have updated packages as required to install cutter, indeed
17:42 < jca> I usually prefer to just update everything first
17:42 < thrig> also a good chance for a no, -U joke
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19:14 < neutrin0> jca: the patch seems to fix my problem. I am writing french with most likely unicode characters
19:18 < neutrin0> jca: will this patch be part of the next obsd release ?
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19:58 < jca> neutrin0: en fait... it's already in -current ;)
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21:02 < kurtgz> Hello. Back in the day I've used Soekris and PC Engines WRAP/ALIX SoC boards for my routers with obsd. Now I see Soekris is out of business and PC Engines discontinuing ALIX… what do you recommend these days? Is there anything similar?
21:03 < avemestr> kurtgz: There's a gazillian cheap-o devices like Odroid, Protectli, and similar.
21:04 < thrig> ... used laptops ...
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21:05 < avemestr> Qotoms, Yanbling, Minisys... probably the same factory in China making all of those.
21:05 < kurtgz> I've seen protectli, didn't like it...
21:06 < avemestr> Protectli is - IIRC - more or less just a rebranded Minisys or Qotom.
21:06 < avemestr> Odroid is from South Korea.
21:06 < kurtgz> heh, it needs to be low power, silent, and not bulky, so... old laptops crossed out :)
21:07 < drkhsh> kurtgz: have a look at (used) lanner hardware
21:10 < thrig> shipping might be high on used mars landers
21:10 < neutrin0> jca: Merci! You made my day and I don't need to reconsider my choice of static site generator .. for now. Your help with the patch made me increase the likelyhood of using openbsd ;)
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21:13 < drkhsh> thrig: maybe a little 
21:15 < kurtgz> avemestr: yes, I was kinda discouraged when I did see no difference between qotom and protectli... just big bulky radiators ;)
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21:16 < kurtgz> I have now some MikroTik, it just works, but any change to the configuration is just a pain, I'm not used to this kind of interaction with network devices. Just give me vi and my /etc files, thank you ;-)
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21:19 < avemestr> Yeah, Mikrotik has a gazillian features and at least four annoying ways to configure them. It's weird. 
21:25 < sibiria> kurtgz: odroid h3 gets a vote from me. had one for almost a year now and very happy with it
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21:32 < kurtgz> sibiria: I was just looking at it, thanks
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21:32 < ludovicus> looks cool
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21:44 < orwell> Anyone using cutter on OpenBSD and know how to set rizin as decompiler? I always get the message "No decompiler available."
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21:52 < polarian> Hello, question about pf, why in the following example (https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/example1.html) is no-df and random-id specificied for "scrubbing", "match all in" would apply scrubbing to all interfaces
21:53 < polarian> after discussion in #networking, everyone has stated that df is useful for performance, and that PMTU discovery should be enforced...
21:53 < polarian> *which admittidly rarely happens*
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22:01 < avemestr> polarian: Seems to be explained in man pf.conf, no?
22:01 < polarian> lemme check, I must have missed it if it is 
22:02 < avemestr> Under "TRAFFIC NORMALISATION" -> "no-df".
22:03 < polarian> ah this... 
22:03 < polarian> but PMTU discovery handles this no?
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22:03 < polarian> unless OpenBSD doesn't do PMTU discovery?
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22:05 < avemestr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_MTU_Discovery#Problems
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22:06 < polarian> ah
22:06 < polarian> so I assume setting the mss to 1440 is to clamp it as well?
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22:07 < avemestr> I would guess so, but I'm no authority on this.
22:08 < avemestr> It just seems that the rules in the official pf example have good reasons for being there, when I skim the man page and wikipedia on the related issues.
22:09 < avemestr> Seems to be a case of "in the best case scenario this should not be necessary, but the real world isn't the best case scenario, so therefore we do...".
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22:14 < polarian> hm
22:15 < polarian> I think its safe to not bother 
22:15 < polarian> it seems hard to justify if its just because some NFS implementations flood fragmented packets
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22:47 < Santa-Oculus>  kids already out on the streets with fireworks
22:47 < thrig> they missed the 7.4 release by a bit
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 29 00:00:19 2023