--- Log opened Tue Jan 02 00:00:24 2024
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05:48 < A1ice> Can gccgo be used on openbsd?
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05:52 < remiliascarlet> Yes, if you patch it and compile it on OpenBSD.
05:53 < remiliascarlet> But if you want to use Go, I believe it's better to just use the official Go compiler. At least that one is already available for OpenBSD, and compiles static binaries rather than dynamic.
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06:06 < A1ice> Unfortunately, my platform does not support the official go compiler, The go compiler does not support openbsd/mips64el
06:08 < extrowerk> Hi. Is there any way to start the bsd.rd's installer from a running bsd? I'd like to install OBSD using the bsd, as for some reason the emmc doesn't works properly in bsd.rd.
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17:16 < falsifian> extrowerk: I had a similar issue a while back where bsd worked on my hardware but not bsd.rd. The dev I reported the bug to indicated it wasn't a great idea to try to install from bsd; instead we worked together to get bsd.rd working :-)
17:17 < falsifian> I guess it's probably possible.
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19:01 < rahl> What's the general approach if wanting to edit an existing rc.d script for a packaged program?
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19:02 < Lucas6023> what do you mean, rahl?
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19:03 < Lucas6023> or, how do you intend to modify it?
19:03 < thrig> why do you need to edit it?
19:06 < rahl> Specifically looking at running znc in a chroot
19:07 < rahl> And would still like to use rcctl
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19:08 < rahl> But figured it might be a bad idea to edit rc.d scripts directly, presuming the changes might get clobbered with an update for example. 
19:10 < Lucas6023> no, changes don't get clobbered. That's one of the things I like the most about OpenBSD, sysmerge.
19:10 < thrig> I'd be more likely to pledge and unveil znc
19:10 < Bradipo> Hmm, I thought that they would get clobbered...
19:10 < Bradipo> I have local changes to /etc/rc that get clobbered everytime I upgrade.
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19:11 < thrig> configuration management (e.g. Ansible or whatever) is one way to configure things
19:11 < aerth> maybe git repo /etc directory or copy and enable myznc
19:11 < Lucas6023> also, what's your plan? iirc rc doesn't support chroots. =
19:11 < ox1eef_> I have modified the unveil file for chromium, and it never gets clobbered. 
19:12 < Bradipo> There are some things that do, some things that don't.
19:12 < rahl> Lucas6023: afaict I could use the daemon command to run chroot directly
19:12 < Bradipo> For one, /etc/rc is part of base, and the chromium unveil file is from packages, fairly different environments.
19:12 < rahl> thrig: You mean I should try to mod znc directly instead?
19:12 < Lucas6023> Bradipo: good point. Things from ports aren't clobbered. The base system is, as updates are basically a `tar -x`over the files
19:13 < Bradipo> rahl: Yes.  Instrument it with unveil/pledge.
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19:15 < rahl> Bradipo: That would be preferable. Not sure I'm quite ready for that yet. Surely it would be significantly more involved than chrooting - which would at least give me some improvement; theoretically in a short amount of time
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19:19 < ox1eef_> Wouldn't you have to modify the source code of vnc itself ? So indeed, there would be more to it.
19:19 < Bradipo> Yes, I believe it would involve modifying the source code of vnc itself.
19:21 < rahl> Well, yes, which is why I'd prefer to avoid that path for now. First and foremost I'd like to get something running
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19:21 < Lucas6023> rahl: what "daemon" command? at least the manpage of znc doesn't say anything about chroot, and the docs I found in its wiki all suggest to use something external for chrooting
19:21 < Lucas6023> start-stop-daemon, in particular
19:22 < rahl> Lucas6023: yes, their wiki instructions are for debian IIRC
19:22 < Bradipo> Well, it shouldn't be too difficult to get a chroot working.
19:22 < rahl> daemon is part of the rc.d script
19:22 < Bradipo> Especially if vnc has a short list of dependencies.
19:22 < rahl> Quite
19:22 < rahl> Which brings me back to my original point, of whether it's reasonable to directly mod an rc.d script
19:22 < Lucas6023> yes, it is
19:23 < Lucas6023> if it comes from ports
19:23 < rahl> ack
19:23 < rahl> It's at least not part of base
19:23 < Lucas6023> alternatively, you can also `cp /etc/rc.d/znc /etc/rc.d/mychrootznc`
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19:24 < Lucas6023> chances of something colliding with it are quite low
19:24 < Lucas6023> at preset, nothing does, in fact
19:24 < rahl> True that would also be reasonable
19:25 < rahl> Appreciated
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19:30 < dayid> rahl: sidenote: if you do, you will need to track the file and "re-make" your modifications upon future pkg_updates.
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19:32 < dayid> I track my /etc/ with RCS/git (pending machine and use) and even specifically for znc I compare after a pkg_add -u/sysupdate and usually just "git checkout rc.d/znc" to "go back to" my version (using the daemon_flags/daemon_user I want)
19:33 < phy1729> Why not set flags and user via rcctl?
19:33 < dayid> For other things - like where I run multiple unbounds, I did as others suggested and copied to unbound-protected, etc.
19:34 < dayid> phy1729: if it were just flags I think that would be preferred, but AFAIK znc does not allow daemon_user to be passed via flags.
19:34 < phy1729> rcctl set znc user ...  should work
19:35 < dayid> While that exits 0 for me, it made no changes to any file in /etc/.
19:36 < dayid> I was expecting a change in /etc/rc.conf.local for that, right?
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19:37 < Bradipo> What does: rcctl get znc | grep user ?
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19:37 < dayid> it shows all just prefixed znc_ for class/execdir/flags/logger/rtable/timeout/user
19:38 < phy1729> yes it'd show up in /etc/rc.conf.local
19:38 < dayid> ah, it apparently it smarter than I.
19:39 < dayid> When I _unset_ "daemon_user" in my /etc/rc.d/znc -- *then* do the rcctl set user it modifies rc.conf.local to add "znc_user=dayid"
19:39 < dayid> but since I already had daemon_user=dayid in /etc/rc.d/znc it was doing nothing I guess.
19:40 < dayid> Well that's a pleasant one. I didn't realize I could change this in that manner; I thought since znc's manpage itself didn't have an argument-style flag like a "-u user" that I couldn't do such.
19:40 < phy1729> That's an rcctl feature for any daemon
19:41 < Bradipo> Probably just uses su.
19:41 < dayid> Ah, well great then - learned something good and got to clean up a deviation on my system too then :D
19:42 < Bradipo> I believe that's also how daemon_class is handled (su -c).
19:43 < phy1729> /etc/rc.d/rc.subr 165 or so
19:44 < dayid> Any magic trick for the 2 of a daemon while I'm already here and getting things fixed up on behalf of others?
19:45 < Bradipo> 2 of a daemon?
19:46 < dayid> Yeah, like the cp /etc/rc.d/unbound /etc/rc.d/unbound2 type situation. I run multiple unbounds for different subnets as they have different logging/forwarding needs.
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19:46 < phy1729> For unbound in particular there are views, but making a copy or symlink of the rc.d file works otherwise
19:47 < Bradipo> rcctl(8) recommends doing symbolic link and then setting the values of the daemon_* variables appropriately.
19:47 < Bradipo> Though that doesn't help much with trying to setup chroot since rcctl has no way to enable a chroot.
19:48 < dayid> OK so I'm at least not too far off the beaten path then. Glad my znc is cleared up though that makes it one less thing to keep an eye on when updating.
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19:51 < dayid> May have to sort out that the rc_pre for unbound checks the main .conf auto-trust-anchor vs the config provided in daemon_flags w/ -c. hmm. Same with the default bit of unbound-checkconf.
19:51 < dayid> Perhaps I should just revisit and see if I can use tags/views to better handle my situations. Ah -- someday perhaps.
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19:52 < dayid> Not quite like bind views and seems light enough to run the multiple unbounds but having it all bundled would be handy at times.
19:53 < Bradipo> unbounds on different IPs?
19:54 < dayid> Yeah, right now I've got them bound and listening on separate subnets. Some devices (IOT junk) get a very locked-down set of what they can resolve, others (children's devices) go to nextdns and are similarly locked down but slightly more free, and then others still yet (my work machines, etc) are free to resolve publicly/wholly.
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19:56 < phy1729> I do similar to that with views
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19:59 < dayid> I'll have to see if I can get the forward-zone stanzas to match based on tag/view; used views on bind but hadn't really had a case for them with unbound so far. Usually on bind I used it to separate customers or internal/external etc.
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20:09 < obcecado> rpz is also handy
20:09 < obcecado> (on unbound)
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20:25 < cjs> I am sure that I have just been missing something for all these months, but, alas, I am missing it: xenodm -- can it automatically switch between 2+ WMs / DEs, and, if so, where (exactly) is the documentation to achieve that cleanly?
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20:28 < thrig> I have a thingy in cwm to switch to fvwm, and a thingy in fvwm to launch cwm
20:28 < Quantafac> I have always switched WMs by editing the ~/.xsession file with the one I want to run. Log out and back in.
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20:28 < thrig> bloatier environments might be more problematic from the extra additional cruft involved?
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20:31 < cjs> thrig: Quantafac: Intriguing. Well, I typically have a minimalist tiler installed as my 99% driver (spectrwm -- used it for years now) and something like LXQt for the odd and end that simply does not play nicely when run from the tiler.
20:31 < cjs> LXQt and other deliberately minimalist DEs *can* be run from .xsession with 1 line, so maybe just having a commented out 'exec _' in that file for quick switching really is the cleanest way to go.
20:32 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/wmswitch.txt
20:32 < Quantafac> thrig:  Not sure if there would be any problems. I've used gnome, xfce, and dwm which all seemed to work properly. cjs: adding the exec line is all I typically have to do in my case.
20:33 < cjs> Someone who wanted to go all fancy could have a script that replaces the hash in .xsession and logs out.
20:34 < cjs> (not fancy)
20:35 < cjs> Anwyay, thanks, folks. Good to think aloud for a moment.
20:35 < mischief> spectrwm gang, woo
20:36 < cjs> mischief: coreystephan.com/openbsd-thinkpad <-- almost finished with top-to-bottom revision with a fresh 7.4-release installation, so 99% right, but there is my spectrwm setup on my little ThinkPad for getting things done in OpenBSD
20:39 < cjs> always nice to find spectrwm folks -- obviously, it is basically an OpenBSD project
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20:44 < begriffs> https://www.openbsd.org/armv7.html this page lists many ARMv7 systems-on-a-chip that are supported to various degrees by openbsd. Anyone know which ones are supported best of all?
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20:45 < begriffs> I want to buy a low-power fanless computer to set up as a home server, and want minimal fuss running openbsd
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20:51 < begriffs> maybe it's overly restrictive to look at just armv7 for that task
20:51 < tommyrot> if you are buying you should probably skip arm7
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20:54 < begriffs> thanks for the tip. What would be a nice quiet low energy thing to run a mail server and host some files?
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20:56 < metavoid> any reasons you haven't looked into arm64 and an RPI 4? or do you need moar juice?
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20:58 < begriffs> don't need much juice at all. :) Just don't know the first thing about these kind of boards. Is the RPI 4 well supported?
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21:03 < cjs> begriffs: FYI Setup of an ARM SOC with OpenBSD requires a serial cable. There are no bootable flash imags, e.g. FreeBSD or Raspbian. Yet, once installed, things for a device like the RPi4 are supposed to work 100%.
21:03 < cjs> (95%+)
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21:04 < sibiria> software framebuffer works
21:04 < sibiria> needs input on the boot prompt, though
21:05 < begriffs> that's encouraging. Any other SOC which is even easier to install on and run?
21:06 < sibiria> they're for the most part the same
21:07 < sibiria> the raspberries are the clumsiest ones
21:07 < sibiria> the others typically just need you to hook keyboard up to let the install kernel know it should switch over to image output instead of serial
21:08 < sibiria> other than that it's same same - write miniroot install image to microSD card and boot
21:08 < sibiria> microSD, USB, what-have-you
21:08 < avemestr> Life becomes easier with some Intel or AMD CPU on a board with HDMI/DP video output..
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21:08 < sibiria> you get video output on the Arm boards, too
21:09 < sibiria> just not hw-accelerated rendering
21:09 < thrig> probably you won't be running hefty things like lilypond on it?
21:10 < cjs> Avoid display output on RPis in the BSD world in general. A minimalist WM on some buggy rolling GNU/Linux distro with the latest kernel is about the 'best' that it gets on that front.
21:10 < cjs> Headless is much, much better.
21:11 < sibiria> i think it's been a few years since you caught up with linux and Arm :) hw-accelerated rendering, incl. opengl for compositors and 3d stuff, works pretty good on many SoCs these days
21:11 < thrig> maybe you could 8bit up a terminal and then telnet over...
21:12 < begriffs> I really only need shell access on this little machine to run some server programs. For the day to day I was planning to SSH in through my lan.
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21:12 < cjs> sibiria: That might be so. I have been headless only on my little Pi for many months now, if not longer :)
21:13 < begriffs> Wonder if the RPI allows me to connect to a tty via usb, using cu or something
21:13 < aerth> begriffs: do you have a usb serial thing? (eg. adafruit 954) 
21:13 < cjs> The real limitations are always the slowness of the device and the lack of desktop-oriented software for anything beyond the truly generic.
21:13 < cjs> Professional tools tend to exist solely as AMD64 ports/packages for most platforms.
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21:14 < sibiria> my Rock5B is pretty damned snappy. very competent desktop Arm SBC
21:14 < begriffs> I do have a USB dongle that allows me to connect wires to it and to usart pins on a soc
21:15 < cjs> sibiria: Right. All just depends on workflow needs.
21:16 < sibiria> Linux on Arm does 99% of what Linux on x86-64 does
21:17 < cjs> sibiria: *does*, again, depends on workflow needs. Several pieces of software that are basic for my professional needs are ported/packaged for most OSes on AMD64 but are not even compilable on ARM.
21:20 < mischief> begriffs: odroid-h3 or protectli devices
21:21 < mischief> or any cheap x86 mini pc really.
21:21 < mischief> i see like 4 different new ones a day in my news feed
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21:32 < sibiria> begriffs: again, you don't need serial for everything Arm on openbsd
21:33 < sibiria> the bootable install kernel provides video output, but you need to manually let the bootloader know you want that when it starts up
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21:58 < begriffs> BTW, speakind of raspberry pi, does openbsd provide access to the gpio pins on there (spi, i2c, serial)?
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22:00 < phy1729> aiui sort of, see gpio(4)
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22:02 < ox1eef_> Anyone know if it is an OpenBSD-specific feature for ungoogled-chromium to distrust the now-defunct DigiNotar authority ? On this page: chrome://settings/certificates?search=cert
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22:12 < metavoid> ox1eef_: probably related: https://security.googleblog.com/2011/08/update-on-attempted-man-in-middle.html
22:15 < ox1eef_> Yep. Seems so. Thanks.
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22:39 < solene> yeah, kde plasma is working https://media.bsd.network/media_attachments/files/111/688/496/571/270/825/original/8195595d1c4373ab.png
22:40 < solene> and so is sway on wayland! :D https://media.bsd.network/media_attachments/files/111/668/915/419/100/409/original/c50db1d20dc47898.png
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22:45 < avemestr> Nice work by the people involved!
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 03 00:00:26 2024