--- Log opened Fri Jan 05 00:00:28 2024
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00:42 < SomeRandoUser> Where can I find the source and patches used to build OpenBSD packages?
00:43 < Bradipo> That's the ports(7) system.  man ports
00:44 < SomeRandoUser> This isn't for ports. It's for the base system (stuff you install with pkg_add).
00:44 < Bradipo> Well, you said packages.
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00:44 < Bradipo> packages(7) is not base.
00:44 < Bradipo> And stuff you add with pkg_add is not base.
00:44 < SomeRandoUser> I thought pkg_add and ports were separate things.
00:45 < Bradipo> packages(7) that you add to OpenBSD are made from ports(7).
00:45 < SomeRandoUser> oh I see
00:45 < Bradipo> And you add them  using pkg_add(1).
00:45 < Bradipo> If you want the base system, then you need to look at release(8).
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02:00 < rtprio> does anyone use puppet on openbsd, with a non-openbsd puppetserver?
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02:24 < SomeRandoUser> Is it possible to install gcc on OpenBSD?
02:25 < SomeRandoUser> There's a gcc package, but installing it doesn't give me gcc.
02:25 < oldlaptop> It gives you a binary named egcc.
02:25 < oldlaptop> (I imagine the historical reason was named "egcs", once upon a time)
02:26 < SomeRandoUser> Oh.
02:26 < SomeRandoUser> I remember egcs. That was over 20 years ago!!!
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02:55 < Bradipo> I'm trying to update my /usr/ports tree with cvs... it keeps telling me: C databases/puppetdb/7/pkg/PLIST-plugin
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02:56 < Bradipo> Followed by: cvs update: move away databases/puppetdb/7/pkg/puppetdb.rc; it is in the way
02:56 < Bradipo> But I haven't modified any files locally.
02:56 < Bradipo> So I delete it, rerun cvs update, and then I get the same file or a different set of files that are all conflicting.
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02:58 < Bradipo> What's odd is that after I remove the file, and rerun cvs update, it brings it back and says it conflicts and is in the way, etc.
02:59 < Bradipo> At this point, I'm tempted to just checkout the entire tree fresh.
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03:05 < thrig> maybe it's a sticky tag thing
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03:19 < Bradipo> Well, I've been using -PAd
03:19 < Bradipo> Specifically: cvs -d anoncvs@anoncvs4.usa.openbsd.org:/cvs -q up -r OPENBSD_7_4 -PAd
03:20 < Bradipo> -A should "reset any sticky tags"
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04:29 < HornySlayer3000> epony is an idea and a special information system
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04:36 < phy1729> HornySlayer3000: not here
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04:38 < el_doge> phy1729, why not
04:39 < phy1729> it's offtopic
04:39 < phy1729> dfdx: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=170442939101250&w=2
04:40 < el_doge> muh offtopic nazi
04:40 < el_doge> how is it offtopic
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08:23 < weezelding> any recommendations for 3 x rj45 fw machine? plus if it can be completely controlled with serial, like APUs. got apu2 already so that's out of question
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08:30 < Voyager_MP> https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/products/low-energy-systems.html
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08:31 < Voyager_MP> Very solid, easy to use 
08:31 < weezelding> oh and passive cooling is almost a must
08:31 < Voyager_MP> it is 
08:32 < Voyager_MP> I use them all over the place, thay never broke down. 
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08:33 < weezelding> cool, looks similar what that dutch vendor is doing which i cannot remember now
08:34 < Voyager_MP> who is the dutch vendor 
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08:35 < weezelding> cannot remember the brand's name but they have orange covers in some of their industry grade PCs
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08:38 < IcePic> weezelding: edgerouter lite, 3 GE, serial console, fanless
08:38 < IcePic> also, non-x86 for extra nerd points
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08:56 < weezelding> IcePic: afaik that needs some tuning and time and the latter i don't have :) neither it has that many packages compared to amd64
09:01 < IcePic> bah
09:01 < weezelding> :D
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09:01 < IcePic> mips64 got 8995 packages for the 7.4 release.
09:01 < IcePic> should be enough for anybody.
09:02 < IcePic> It's not like the box where serial conf is important will be running 29 tabs in chrome
09:03 < weezelding> can it saturate 1Gbps?
09:04 < IcePic> not in obsd, but I haven't tested the smaller ERLs lately. I can probably rig a test with an ERL3 and see what the limit is now.
09:04 < IcePic> lots of things have unlocked in the stack since I last benched
09:04 < weezelding> with the recent changes apu2 can so that should be enough for now. but i'm afraid my apu2 will break soon as yesterday i lost the PSU
09:05 < weezelding> not that i would saturate 1Gbps constantly but heck, if i have it, i want to saturate it! :)
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09:26 < rahl> Usually when running the same cp command twice, things just quietly succeed, overwriting where necessary.
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09:27 < rahl> Just noticed that when using -R and a symlink got copied it works as expected the first time. But on a subsequent run I get this error:
09:28 < rahl> cp: cannot overwrite directory /path/to/file/copy with non-directory /path/to/file
09:28 < rahl> It appears the destination symlink is perceived to be a directory.
09:29 < rahl> Is that expected behaviour? I'm only really seeking to understand what's going on here - it's not critical. 
09:30 < IcePic> I would check what kind of entry /path/to/file/copy is, perhaps you made a dir where you expected a file, due to -R moving a whole dir?
09:32 < rahl> IcePic: it appears both the src and dest are symlinks
09:32 < rahl> thankfully the symlink points to a directory within the copied tree
09:33 < rahl> This post acknowledges the situation (CASE 2), and suggests rsync as an alternative https://superuser.com/a/1395410. I still wonder why this is the programmed behaviour 
09:33 < IcePic> just thinking that repeated "cp" commands may not be as idempotent as one might wish
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09:34 < rahl> Yep
09:35 < rahl> Oh, and -R is documented as copying symbolic links, not following them
09:35 < IcePic> "cp -R /var/empty /dst/path/empty" will create /dst/path/empty if it didn't exist the first time, but put a new empty inside /dst/path/empty the second time
09:35 < rahl> Try empty as a symbolic link.
09:35 < IcePic> I've used rsync at times just to get a restartable cp or mv, in case I need to resume an aborted run. Especially mv is tough to break/restart
09:36 < rahl> From what I've heard in the past, rsync is a much more robust option
09:40 < IcePic> it has some quirks too, one might need to go "rsync -a /path/to/src/. /path/to/dest/." to make sure no new dirs are created, but apart from that it is very nice
09:40 < rahl> ack
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09:52 < rahl> On another topic, does userdel also remove the default group that might have been created with useradd?
09:52 < rahl> It appears I have a case where it wasn't
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09:52 < rahl> Is it reasonable to simply manually remove the offending line from /etc/group?
09:54 < IcePic> I think it doesn't, and it is reasonable for you to remove
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09:59 < rahl> ack, thanks
09:59 < rahl> I'm happy to take your word for it :)
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10:07 < IcePic> rahl: its just one of those design choices that will be bad for some corner case regardless of how you choose.
10:08 < IcePic> perhaps some computer has a few local accounts and some over YP/LDAP and perhaps this group started out locally and now isn't or vice versa. Keeping track of when the last user of said group is gone may be hard or could get the wrong answer if ldap is down when you userdel that one last local user, and then the group is gone
10:08 < IcePic> for most/many setups, groups gets added along with users and seldomly is there a real churn so that having a few hundred entries in /etc/groups is an actual issue.
10:10 < IcePic> what is cumbersome for people is often not as tough on computers. =)
10:10 < rahl> Yeah, that does make sense
10:11 < IcePic> not directly related, but I've run obsd systems (in the 4.x/5.x days) with some 180k users in /etc/passwd. Now, passwd uses pwd_mkdb to make a database for you and we had few groups to which most users belonged, but it worked ok
10:15 < zyxer> So 180k users is not a big deal for OpenBSD?
10:15 < zyxer> Good to know.... 
10:16 < rahl> That is not an insignifcant amount
10:19 < rahl> Another Q. When using chroot to run a command within, as a specific user with specific group(s), is anything like a login shell done (i.e. that would set up HOME, etc), or would we have to set those up before hand (in which case I'm assuming that the (or some) current environment vars would be passed into the chroot)?
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10:20 < rahl> This is also assuming the command being run requires certain ENV set
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10:38 < rahl> nvm, ran some tests and yes it seems env vars are passed through
10:42 < IcePic> I think env is kept, in order to run your shell as a login shell and all that you would need to copy a large amount of rc files into the chroot at all times
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11:31 < rahl> It's cool, don't need to. Just wanted to know what it would do
11:32 < rahl> Before running a suggested command
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12:10 < rahl> Is the a way to use kill with a pidfile? I've seen a bash solution, but I'm using ksh default shell, which would probably handle it too
12:10 < rahl> Just wondering if there's a more portable option
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12:14 < tarxvfz> well, in my practice kill `cat /path/to/pidfile` worked everywhere... not sure about this, do not remember using it with ksh
12:14 < rahl> ack, will try
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12:18 < rahl> Looks good :)
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12:20 < sibiria> prefer $(cat <file>) over accents
12:21 < sibiria> also valid:  $(< <file>)
12:22 < quinq> (on ksh, but not portable)
12:23 < sibiria> should work fine on bash, too
12:24 < quinq> And on any shell that supports it
12:24 < sibiria> re: 99.9999%
12:24 < quinq> Doesn't make it portable either
12:25 < quinq> sibiria, nice statistic, I'd be curious to see your scientific procedure
12:25 < sibiria> i asked 100k people on the streets and only one answered something else than bash
12:26 < quinq> So only one openbsd user, was that you?
12:26 < sibiria> yes
12:26 < quinq> You should hang out in other streets
12:27 < sibiria> no
12:27 < quinq> Just for your own statistical sense sake
12:28 < sibiria> i asked 100k people in #openbsd on libera and only one said something else than ksh, so the redirect is still valid
12:28 < Voyager_MP> is it save to put your ssh public key on a webpage ? 
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12:28 < Voyager_MP> whats your opinon ? 
12:29 < sibiria> Voyager_MP: yes, but the pseudononymous you can later on be identified
12:29 < Voyager_MP> true
12:30 < sibiria> though it does pose a small risk of you being "tricked" into a bad host, if you're not paying attention to ssh's host notifications
12:31 < Voyager_MP> true as well
12:31 < quinq> sibiria, this somehow feels a bit dishonest
12:31 < Voyager_MP> removed the key :D 
12:31 < quinq> Voyager_MP, what would be the goal of that though?
12:32 < Voyager_MP> remote support 
12:32 < quinq> I don't understand
12:32 < quinq> Remote support of what?
12:33 < Voyager_MP> you can simply tell someone to add the key, so I can login 
12:33 < rahl> sibiria: ack. That would be by normal choice when using bash. I'm still quite new to ksh. Are the backticks technically more portable?
12:33 < sibiria> Voyager_MP: if you need to, and if it's not an integrity issue for you, just publish the key but keep an eye open about what ssh tells you when you connect
12:33 < rahl> It's not essesntial, I would just like to know
12:33 < quinq> rahl, both are portable, it's a matter of readability and style taste
12:34 < IcePic> rahl: backticks are older, but you can't stack them, and are slightly more prone to get changed into ` ´ by some fancy-print-helper that makes pretty-quotes out of them than $( ... ) 
12:34 < quinq> I don't think there's a real risk of sharing a public key, because it's, well, public
12:34 < quinq> And pseudo-hiding it (it won't be) doesn't sound like it's actually solving a problem
12:34 < pardis> if someone who has already MITM'd you wants to trick you into sshing into a malicious host, they don't need your key
12:34 < pardis> they can just configure their sshd not to perform auth at all
12:35 < pardis> publishing your key makes no difference
12:35 < sibiria> rahl: at some point they may become LESS portable, but mainly they pose some kludges and a few risks. can't nest them, need to be escaped in many cases etc.
12:36 < sibiria> rahl: what isn't 100% portable is redirecting in the second way i described:  $(< somefilename)
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12:37 < rahl> ack, thanks for the clarification
12:37 < sibiria> but it'll work everywhere that matters ;)
12:37 < rahl> :p
12:39 < quinq> Just not on systems that don't use bash as their main shell
12:39 < quinq> (or ksh, for example)
12:39 < sibiria> works fine on ksh
12:39 < quinq> Yes, we already stated that a few minutes ago
12:39 < sibiria> ksh, bash, dash, zsh
12:39 < quinq> Not dash
12:39 < sibiria> i know csh is a no-go, but nobody in their right mind uses that
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12:40 < sibiria> (good riddance)
12:40 < sibiria> i think csh can't even do $parens
12:41 < sibiria> it's worse than mixing coffee and coca-cola
12:41 < quinq> That's why it's called portable (as in specified by a standard)
12:41 < quinq> You don't have to enumerate which implementation added the extention or not
12:42 < sibiria> command subs isn't portable either
12:42 < quinq> Several things are not indeed
12:42 < sibiria> nitpicking about this seems pointless, instead of just being pragmatic and forward about it: $() is the way to go
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12:42 < quinq> Nitpicking about explaining to people what's standard and what isn't?
12:43 < quinq> And recommending using non-standard features instead of standard ones because “it should work most of the time”?
12:43 < quinq> And this is about < redirection, not about sub-shells
12:44 < quinq> Anyway, I think that we both made our point, no point arguing anymore on my side at least
12:44 < sibiria> nobody _recommended_ anyone to use < redirection in $parens. the syntax was offered for insight and plurality
12:44 < sibiria> i prefer to use cat for it
12:45 < pardis> you can also use dd
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12:54 < lil_lasagna> is there a reason why doas and other binaries don't compile with extra warnings and hardening options, like -fpie, -fpic or -fstack-protector?
12:55 < lil_lasagna> compiler options seem to be pretty barebones
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12:58 < uwharrie> lil_lasagna: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=169558749114476&w=2
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13:09 < uwharrie> and my understanding is that the compiler is configured so that the other flags are on by default
13:09 < lil_lasagna> uwharrie, how/where can I check what those default flags are?
13:11 < IcePic> man clang-local could help (man gcc-local on some arches)
13:14 < lil_lasagna> thanks!
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14:37 < taleon> I want to use opensmtpd with two domains and two IP addresses. However, I only have one external network interface and use the second IP as an alias. In smtpd.conf, however, I cannot allow two domains with different pki to listen on the same interface. What is the best way to solve this? Virtual interfaces or is there a more elegant solution directly in the smtpd.conf?
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14:49 < armin> taleon: you can simply list these domains (e.g. foo.com and bar.com) in /etc/smtpd/domains and MX records, and then set the MX records for both domains to mx1.foo.com (that should resolve to the IP, and the IP should reverse-resolve to that hostname, but that's it).
14:50 < armin> taleon: I don't think there's a need to bind to two IP adresses for that.
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14:55 < eea> can do it with a single IP, I have it setup with 1 interface and 5 virtual IPs
14:55 < eea> pro tip, make sure DNS is all set
14:56 < quinq> Did gmail just bork their DNS?
14:57 < quinq> $ drill -T imap.google.com
14:57 < quinq> […]
14:57 < quinq> google.com.     60      IN      SOA     ns1.google.com. dns-admin.google.com. 595653177 900 900 1800 60
14:57 < quinq> Or maybe Google just decided to remove IMAP access to gmail, wouldn't surprise me
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15:00 < quinq> They must have delegated network infrastructure to AI
15:05 < armin> quinq: did you try imap.gmail.com?
15:07 < quinq> That one works
15:08 < quinq> Yep, it's back
15:09 < mybalzitch> can't serve ads over imap
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15:13 < mason> hah
15:14 < thrig> it's not impossible but you'd have to inject text or images or videos into the messages
15:15 < thrig> or html with external resources if your mail client is silly enough to do something with html
15:16 < quinq> You can just inject spam mail :)
15:16 < quinq> s/spam/legitimate interest advertisement/
15:18 < thrig> the last two ads I saw on google were for a car (I don't know how to drive) and a bank (I already have a credit union)
15:23 < quinq> That's because you're rejecting all those nice cookies, nice google can't give you accurate advertisement for things you don't know yet you need!
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15:40 < IcePic> like ads for a washing machine for 3 months straight, just after you buy a washing machine
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15:51 < dfdx> 23:39 < phy1729> dfdx: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=170442939101250&w=2
15:51 < dfdx> amazing. thanks.
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15:56 < bountyht> Anybody using dsocks on OBSD 7.4 can confirm it works?
15:56 < bountyht> I suspect the last syspatch update broke it for me
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 06 00:00:01 2024