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02:48 < uuidNuniq> it takes 2m30s to add 14000 routes
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02:50 < echelon> hi, is there a standard way of setting the directory path of core dump files in rc scripts?
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04:00 < mischief> what's the use case for 14000 routes
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06:21 < uuidNuniq> mischief: country level CIDR
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06:23 < uuidNuniq> now 15s, i was using while read line ; do route add $line .... ; done < list 
06:23 < uuidNuniq> that was wrong, now i use printf 'route add %s gw' $(cat list) | sh 
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06:43 < IcePic> echelon: programs usually dump in their current dir, except setuid programs who stash them under /var/crash if you ask nicely (man 2 sysctl <- search for suid)
06:49 < echelon> IcePic: neat, thanks :)
06:50 < echelon> IcePic: do you mean current dir as in the dir local to the executable, or current directory as in the dir cd'ed into?
06:50 < IcePic> last
06:50 < echelon> gotcha
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07:10 < pardis> this information can also be found by typing 'man core'
07:10 < pardis> sometimes just typing 'man' followed by a guess at the right keyword is the fastest way to get an answer
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08:06 < __gilles> hello
08:07 < zelest> o/
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08:17 < kodcode> trying to mount an SD card with an NTFS with `doas mount /dev/sd1i /mnt/usb/` and getting `mount_ntfs: /dev/sd1i on /mnt/usb: Invalid argument`
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09:31 < sonya> kodcode: #disklabel -v sd1  … if required ntfs is "i:", then # doas mount_ntfs -o ro /dev/sd1i /mnt/usb
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09:49 < kodcode> sonya: Did not help. (also from man mount_nfts I see that `Only read-only operation is permitted, which is automatically enforced.` already, no?)
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09:53 < thyssentishman> do any porters here use the git mirror to fetch and work on the ports tree?
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09:55 < thyssentishman> I know the mirror is only updated with an interval of a few minutes, but has anyone had problems working with that?
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10:49 < sonya> kodcode: -o ro just to ensure, not required, yes. as an option try ntfs-3g (also in ro mode).
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12:12 < ninjin> Is anyone aware of anyone using OpenBSD for guitar? I have seen plenty of writing about recording and Midi, but effects processing and modeling is eluding me when searching online.
12:13 < ninjin> Given that there is a strong move away from dedicated hardware for a lot of music production, this does have me interested.
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12:16 < metavoid> ninjin: latency will probably be a problem
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12:19 < ninjin> metavoid: Yes, I thought as much. I think the kernel paths may not be as frequently treaded. Not to mention that a lot of music software looks like hell on earth to port from Linux.
12:20 < metavoid> if you look for performance, openbsd isn't the thing, but who knows, might be good enough anyway
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12:48 < ninjin> No worries, I am more than happy with OpenBSD as it is. I am simply trying to determine if I need to go the hardware route and failed to find any relevant reading.
12:49 < ninjin> My Yamaha AG06 already plays nice with OpenBSD, so getting the audio into the box is a non-issue.
12:49 < __gilles> ninjin: quite frankly even the hardware way, on openbsd you will be limited when it comes to guitar
12:50 < __gilles> depending on what you intend to do, it ranges between limited use to unusable
12:50 < ninjin> __gilles: Ah, I *knew* that there was someone in the OpenBSD community that I had seen with a guitar and now I remember that it was you.
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12:51 < __gilles> yhaha :-)
12:51 < __gilles> well thanks to ratchov, midi is usable kinda
12:52 < __gilles> so if you have a midi guitar, you can find some use
12:52 < __gilles> but other than that, you're better off with a dual boot to something else
12:52 < ninjin> Well, a friend is trying to sell me on a SY-1000. So that would be Midi. '^^
12:53 < ninjin> Is it the latency that does in plugins in a DAW with say VST? That the kernel simply "is not there"?
12:53 < __gilles> even before the latency issue
12:54 < __gilles> I'm unaware of a DAW with VST supported on OpenBSD
12:54 < ninjin> Yeah, Ardour I saw on FreeBSD at least.
12:54 < __gilles> you'll likely end up with audacity or similar
12:54 < ninjin> I am fairly comfortable with my software porting skills, but Ardour looks like the madness to port.
12:55 < __gilles> yeah
12:55 < __gilles> that would be the first challenge
12:55 < ninjin> I will see if there is something more minimal with VST support. Audio processing is still a very new world to me.
12:56 < ninjin> Maybe even just try Audacity.
12:56 < __gilles> I'm interested if you find a way, I stopped looking a few years ago then I trained for Logic so I never looked back
12:56 < __gilles> but you will have multiple challenges:
12:56 < __gilles> - the software
12:57 < __gilles> - support for the hardware you use as input for that software
12:57 < __gilles> - kernel support for low-latency audio input ... and output if you want monitoring
12:57 < __gilles> - performances of userland software when doing sound processing live
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12:57 < __gilles> by all means jump into it and see how far you go, but I doubt it'll be a journey at the park :p
12:58 < __gilles> when in doubt, ask ratchov he has deep understanding of how things work low-level
12:58 < ninjin> Hehe, my biggest concern is that I am new to audio programming and never went deep into a kernel. Still, thanks a ton for confirming pretty much exactly what I expected the answer to be.
12:58 < jca> fwiw we *had* an ardour port but it was "outdated an unmaintained"
12:59 < __gilles> oh hellow jca
12:59 < __gilles> was it usable beyond running ?
12:59 < jca> hi
12:59 < jca> no idea
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13:01 < ninjin> Still, good to know. Better to start from that than from scratch (probably). Will turn this conversation into notes. But for now, I think it is me going via an amp, with effects, etc. hitting the Yamaha so that OpenBSD is out of the chain apart from for recording.
13:01 < __gilles> yeah that's the best bet
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13:02 < jca> that was really "fwiw".  if the upstream code and build system has changed enough, the previous port may not be very helpful.
13:03 < ninjin> I think my main points would be to see if we are "there" when it comes to monitoring and say userland plug-in latency. Because if it is all in userland porting, I know I can do it.
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13:16 < ninjin> Also, finally, many thanks. Doing a bunch of searches and extrapolating based on what you already know is one thing. But then also getting it confirmed is immensely helpful.
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13:30 < sonya> ninjin: for Audacity proper export you need to create several symlinks in /usr/local/lib to reflect proper ffmpeg version and proper lame… example:  /usr/local/lib/libmp3lame.so.0 -> libmp3lame.so.2.2 , /usr/local/lib/libpostproc.so.55.9 -> libpostproc.so.19.0 and so on.. ffmpeg has modified name (version) of libs and they're not reflect ffmpeg.pc data
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13:35 < jca> sonya: if that's the case, ffmpeg and/or audacity should be fixed.  better report it.
13:36 < thfr> yes, ports shouldn't require manual setup of new files or symlinks in /usr/local/
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13:39 < thfr> sonya: best to report the audacity issue and solution on ports@. Or ffmpeg port. Either way, the ports shouldn't require manual creation of symlinks or files /usr/local for their functionality
13:39 < thfr> s/files/files in/
13:39 < sonya> thrig: i think it's made with intention for some other package
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13:40 < sonya> i mean libs versions are changed too obvious
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14:03 < tercaL> Could someone explain what're differences between; "nat on $ext_if from ($int_if:network) to any -> ($ext_if:0)"  and  "nat on $ext_if from ($int_if:network) to any -> ($ext_if:0) port 1024:65535" PF rules?
14:04 < tercaL> On the second rule, what does "port 1024:65535" actually do in terms of NAT?
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14:22 < uuidNuniq> tercaL: nat both ip addr and map random port in 1024:65535 range
14:24 < uuidNuniq> like if your ($int_if:network) port was 800 it will map to ($ext_if:0) port above 1024
14:25 < uuidNuniq> this is usefull when something is listenning on ($ext_if:0) below 1024, this solved such conflict
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14:41 < tercaL> uuidNuniq: That was interesting, thanks for your reply and the idea. "$int_if" is my 10.10.10.0/29 network, a virtual ethernet interface and VMs running on the host system. And $ext_if is the only physical interface on the host machine with a single public IP address. I got 2 OpenBSD VMs for web server and one mail server running on the same machine under virtualization. In my case, do you think adding "port 1024:65535" would be better for overall NAT?
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14:46 < socksinspace> https://clbin.com/oOKWl i expected these pf rules to have no effect at all, yet they cause my ssh session to freeze when i enable pf, and then terminate when i disable pf again, what am i missing?
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14:56 < thrig> why are you enabling and disabling pf instead of just loading new rules?
14:59 < socksinspace> i guess i could make a pf.conf that's just "pass all" and change to that, "pfctl -d" just came to my mind first
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15:04 < socksinspace> seems to make no difference
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15:25 < Bradipo> socksinspace: If I'm not mistaken, simply disabling and enabling pf does not reload rules.
15:26 < Bradipo> That's the role of -f: http://man.openbsd.org/pfctl#f
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15:27 < socksinspace> but when id disable it it shouldn't enforce any rules anymore, no?
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15:27 < Bradipo> Yes, when disable there is no "enforcement" of rules.
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15:31 < socksinspace> also, now, for some reason only the gods might know, the exact same thing that failed before, works https://clbin.com/GwnUJ
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15:32 < socksinspace> i'm starting to suspect teaching sand to think was a mistake
15:32 < Bradipo> Contrary to modern belief systems, sand still cannot think.
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15:33 < Bradipo> But, I'm boggled at such a 2 line ruleset.
15:34 < socksinspace> well, i went to that because my more complicated rulesets would lock me out, so i wanted to start from base principles, and see where i misunderstand things
15:35 < Bradipo> Ok, fair enough.
15:35 < Bradipo> Though, I don't think S/SA is necessary.
15:35 < Bradipo> Because that is already "the default".
15:35 < socksinspace> that is not in my config, seems to be added automagically
15:35 < Bradipo> "For stateful connections, the default is flags S/SA."
15:36 < Bradipo> Oh, well, there is also a default ruleset added by /etc/rc if you have no pf.conf
15:37 < Bradipo> But that doesn't seem to be the default ruleset added by /etc/rc either.
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15:37 < Bradipo> So *you* must have done it.
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15:38 < socksinspace> if i were smart i would probably try to build working rules on a fresh system, and not on a vps that has been used for 2+ years
15:39 < Bradipo> The default ruleset can be seen on line 440: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/etc/rc?annotate=1.572
15:40 < Bradipo> But, you have /etc/pf.conf, so this doesn't apply, right?
15:40 < Bradipo> Unless of course your /etc/pf.conf has errors and it fails to load.
15:40 < Bradipo> But in any event, the 2 line ruleset that you have doesn't align, so it must be something that you (or someone else with access to the system) has done.
15:41 < socksinspace> ok, you gave me an idea, when i do "pfctl -F all" and then load a ruleset it still freezes my session
15:41 < Bradipo> What's odd about that?
15:42 < Bradipo> There is no state that permits the session, so the firewall blocks it.
15:42 < socksinspace> yes
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15:42 < socksinspace> so that is, at least part of, my problem
15:43 < Bradipo> When you use "pfctl -F all" that also flushes all states.
15:44 < Bradipo> Hopefully you have a rule that permits you to SSH back in after you enable the rules.
15:45 < socksinspace> yes, so what freezes my session was not an inherent problem with my rules, just no state being there
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15:50 < socksinspace> i'm still not quite sure where the "S/SA" comes from since it is still there when i do "pfctl -F all" and then load a ruleset that's just "block log all" and "pass log all"
15:52 < socksinspace> but i think "pfctl -sr" shows that because it is the default, and i din't specify anything contradicting it
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15:54 < sonya> socksinspace: imho, S/SA is a part of tcp connection state: SYN -> SYN/ACK and it's required for statefull inspection (for state to be established and had an entry in states table)
15:56 < socksinspace> again, i didn't add that, the "pass log all" in my config just gets expanded to that.
15:57 < socksinspace> unless you're telling me i should disable that
15:57 < Bradipo> socksinspace: Well, as I said, S/SA is the default.
15:57 < Bradipo> When you look at "pfctl -sr" they won't look exactly like what you have in /etc/pf.conf
15:57 < Bradipo> They get "normalized".
15:58 < socksinspace> yes, but i wasn't sure, since you sounded like you didn't think it should be in the output of "pfctl -sr"
15:59 < socksinspace> anyway, i think i have mostly solved that mystery, and can now start writing actual firewall rules to shoot myself in the foot ;D
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16:00 < Bradipo> socksinspace: Sorry, when I first looked, I didn't realize that the output was from "pfctl -sr".
16:01 < socksinspace> no problem :)
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16:04 < socksinspace> now i know that just because my ssh connection gets cut off doesn't neccessarily mean my rule is wrong, that's further than i got last time i tried to configure this
16:05 < Bradipo> Yeah, I almost never use "pfctl -F all".
16:08 < socksinspace> yeah i just had a eureka moment when seeing that in the manpage, that i could try to use it to reproduce my problem, since it had suddenly stopped happening without me changing anything
16:11 < socksinspace> i guess my next step is separating the pass rules for inbound an outbound packets, and seeing how far i can lock them down
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16:16 < uuidNuniq> can i have more than one -f? 
16:16 < uuidNuniq> pfctl -E -f file -f file2
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16:16 < Bradipo> I don't believe so.
16:17 < Bradipo> But you can have include statements in  your file.
16:17 < uuidNuniq> then there is oder issuye
16:17 < uuidNuniq> depends on where you insert include 
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16:17 < Bradipo> In file you can include "file2"
16:18 < uuidNuniq> -f : the statements must appear in that order
16:18 < uuidNuniq> let's say file1 has nat filter, file2 has nat and filter , how do you include file2 in file1, pfctl will report error because of ORDER
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16:20 < uuidNuniq> and some conf has anchors... which is a container, and in a container, there could be a mix of nat, filter,normalization
16:21 < uuidNuniq> i know how to order things in one file, but if you include another file in this file, then the result is unpredictable
16:21 < Bradipo> You can order things the way you want and just feed it into "pfctl -f-"
16:21 < Bradipo> It can read from stdin.
16:22 < Bradipo> But then, why not just do what you want in pf.conf... I guess I don't see what you're trying to accomplish with multiple files.
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17:35 < amnesiac> Hi guys. I saw on https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Miscellanea about cross-compile. So it's possible to build at amd64 for arm64 ?
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17:38 < IcePic> possible yes, but not recommended
17:39 < amnesiac> IcePic, i saw this too
17:39 < amnesiac> Thank you
17:40 < IcePic> mostly, the cross compile setup is used to bring up new platforms, so it caters only to the most serious stuff like kernel and libs and /bin /sbin binaries and so forth. Other things which are in base but less important may not work at all
17:42 < IcePic> it may work for the rest too, but its not a guarantee
17:42 < amnesiac> cause my ryzen do this rather faster then raspberry 
17:42 < amnesiac> I see
17:42 < amnesiac> Thank you for comments
17:42 < IcePic> amnesiac: well, if you run snapshots, you get almost daily builds
17:43 < IcePic> often even faster to have someone else do the compiles for you
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17:45 < amnesiac> I could try to setup vm with qemu to get the same and put more cpu with numa and memory
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17:47 < IcePic> or perhaps sign up for an aarch64 VM online somewhere?
17:47 < IcePic> https://www.oracle.com/cloud/free/
17:47 < IcePic> obsd works on those
17:47 < amnesiac> interesting
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17:49 < IcePic> https://icyphox.sh/blog/openbsd-oci/ <- guide on the specifics of installing there, if you don't want to spin up a linux arm64 and then dding install74.img over it
17:50 < amnesiac> IcePic, will try. Thank you! 
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17:55 < linext> my router is running openbsd
17:55 < linext> the power went out and now the router doesn't boot all the way
17:55 < linext> it says the storage is now bad
17:56 < linext> is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future?
17:57 < mischief> UPS?
17:57 < linext> or let it auto-repair when the filesystem has an error
17:57 < linext> regular routers don't have this problem
17:57 < amnesiac> linext, from which device it boots ?
17:58 < linext> it's an intel all-in-one mini-PC
17:58 < linext> it can get to the root console
18:00 < linext> when i try to boot into multi-user mode, it says kernal panic
18:00 < linext> ufs_dirbad
18:00 < amnesiac> run fsck
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18:02 < linext> cannot find file system superblock
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18:06 < linext> i can "fsck -fy /" and "reboot"
18:06 < linext> seems to be working now
18:06 < amnesiac> great
18:06 < linext> can i put that command on startup so i don't have to manually connect the router to a screen/keyboard?
18:07 < amnesiac> does not help at almost all cases
18:07 < amnesiac> just get good power
18:07 < linext> windows ntfs can typically handle power outages just fine
18:07 < linext> why can't openbsd?
18:07 < byteskeptical> or put a cheap battery pack on it
18:08 < linext> seems strange not to run an automated filesystem check/repair if it's detected to have errors
18:09 < amnesiac> linext, zfs at this point do the best - miracle fs
18:09 < amnesiac> linext, ufs just works
18:09 < byteskeptical> linext: it does, when it encounters something that requires user input to decide what to do you get the behavior you experienced
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18:10 < amnesiac> byteskeptical, correct
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18:10 < amnesiac> ntfs on windows do the same actually )
18:10 < byteskeptical> amnesiac: seems like it but there is no way to stop ZFS from doing what ZFS wants to do
18:10 < linext> windows ntfs has a timeout and automatically checks/repairs the error
18:10 < amnesiac> byteskeptical, yes and it needs alot of ram
18:11 < linext> when the disk has errors, i'd like it to auto-repair
18:11 < thrig> I've seen a horribly looped NTFS. (the user ran their laptop 100% full for months)
18:11 < linext> worse case, i'll just reload the router software and use my backup config file
18:11 < byteskeptical> amnesiac: yes but not well that's why so many third party repair utilities exist to run something that already exists
18:13 < byteskeptical> linext: it tried, you may have missed it but essentially is got to a recovery point where it's automated logic isn't capable of making the decision so it wants the user to manually ran the check and decide for themselves
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18:14 < byteskeptical> which is better than making a bad decision and then leaving you to deal with the aftermath
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18:18 < jf> what are the options for your filesystems in /etc/fstab?
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18:33 < avemestr> Once again, a thread worth reading on the pros and cons of more complex file systems: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169392301328799&w=2
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18:45 < avemestr> Also, both ext4 and ZFS had amusing bugs in November/December. But they are oh so shiny. https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/12/kernel_6_1_ext4_corruption/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/27/openzfs_2_2_0_data_corruption/
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19:10 < socksinspace> because nothing ever is easy i (re)discovered a firmware bug on my old laptop, when i install openbsd on the ssd i put in there it hangs on the bios splash screen while booting, totally unresponsive, only way to fix this is to take the ssd out, put it into another machine, and wipe it (not really a call for help, more of a "computers were a mistake" moment)
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22:21 < Roedy> Hi, I have just upgraded to 7.4 and for some reason I just can't get pf to redirect traffic to a proxy on a different vlan. It just goes straight to the internet. Then I started testing and added a block as the top rule. "block in quick log on $INT_if from $mypc to ifconfig.me" - just as test. This doesn't work. I must be seriously tired....
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22:26 < sibiria> because of state
22:27 < sibiria> also the rule is backwards
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22:30 < Roedy> sibiria, can you elaborate or send me in a direction i can read about it?
22:31 < Roedy> backwards in what way? 
22:34 < sibiria> try "block out quick on $int_if from $mypc to ifconfig.me"
22:34 < sibiria> assuming $mypc is a member of $int_if lan and sitting on the other side
22:34 < sibiria> i mean, block out quick on $ext_if*
22:35 < sibiria> there's probably a NAT rule happening first
22:36 < Roedy> block out on $EXT_if did the trick
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22:36 < Roedy> I need to get my head around why it doesn't work blocking it on the way in instead of out
22:37 < sibiria> the order of rules
22:37 < Roedy> ok. I need to google that.
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22:39 < Roedy> Bu the real problem is redirecting the traffic to a proxy. I have  "pass in quick on $INT_if proto tcp to ifconfig.me rdr-to $proxy port $proxyport" This doesn't work" can you help me figure out why?
22:42 < sibiria> i'd presume the same is happening. order of rules/interfaces
22:42 < sibiria> there might also be a small chance that when you reload the rules, ifconfig.me resolves to something else than it does on your pc
22:43 < sibiria> hosts sometimes load balance by providing single A records in a round-robin fashion instead of multiple A records at once
22:43 < sibiria> pf will resolve hostnames only once, when the rules are loaded
22:44 < sibiria> you may need to put the hostname in a table, too
22:44 < sibiria> try putting ifconfig.me inside curlies - { ifconfig.me } - and see what happens
22:45 < sibiria> i never use hostnames in my rules so i've actually forgot if pf is picky with that
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22:46 < sibiria> finally try making a full-fledged table:  
22:47 < sibiria> table <blah> { ifconfig.me }         ... to <blah>
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22:48 < sonya> and from ($INT_if) to ($EXT_if) if applicable (if address could be changed)
22:49 < Roedy>  I have looked up the IP on my computer and put the ip from my cache in the firewall.
22:49 < Roedy> doesn't help
22:49 < Roedy> Let me try ^^ 
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22:50 < sibiria> you can inspect the expanded rules to see if something obvious pops out:  pfctl -s rules
22:51 < sonya> from ($Int_if:network) also works :)
22:51 < Roedy> ($INT_if) gived me syntax error
22:51 < Roedy> Will try :)
22:52 < sonya> it's for 'from' and 'to'
22:53 < sonya> nat-to ($Ext_if) is also ok
22:54 < Roedy> Now i got this " pass in quick from ($INT_if:network) proto tcp to 34.117.118.44 rdr-to $proxy port $proxyport" - Still doesn't work :/
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22:56 < forgotten> Roedy: check msg
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23:02 < sonya> pass in quick (?on egress?) proto tcp from ($INT_if:network)/any to 34.117.118.44 rdr-to $proxy port $proxyport  … ?
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23:03 < sonya> (?on egress?) - define interface if appropriate, ($INT_if:network)/any - any or lan
23:06 < Roedy> doesn't work
23:06 < Roedy> The only thing i got above in variabled for interfaces, units and ports
23:06 < Roedy> variables*
23:07 < Roedy> pass in quick on $INT_if proto tcp from $Roedypc to 34.117.118.44 rdr-to $proxy port $proxyport
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23:09 < Roedy> FYI Its an carp interface on a vlan interface
23:09 < Roedy> If that changes anything
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23:17 < sonya> Roedy: pass in quick on $INT_if proto tcp from $Roedypc to 34.117.118.44 port {1:65535} rdr-to $proxy port $proxyport
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23:20 < sonya> no, too dumb for an eve, sorry
23:21 < Roedy> sonya: nope. Doesn't work. Thanks for trying though
23:22 < Roedy> This config worked before, so I think its the carp interfaces/vlan interface or the massive upgrade from 6.4 to 7.4
23:23 < Roedy> my oid firewall was out of space to upgrade. so it has taken me some time to upgrade.. Bad i know
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23:26 < Roedy> sibiria: I did inspect the ruleset. Can't seem to find anything :/
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23:32 < seninha> Hi! Why does style(9) prefers "const char *foo" to "char const *foo"?
23:33 < ludovicus> one is west const the other is east const
23:33 < seninha> I could grep 50 occurrences of "const any_type *" in /usr/include/*.h and just 6 of "any_type const *" in the same files
23:36 < pardis> I can't tell you why style(9) prefers it, but it makes good sense to prefer it if you're speaking English, purely because that's the natural way to phrase it
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23:36 < pardis> you have a constant value, not a value constant
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23:36 < phy1729> Those don't mean the same things
23:37 < thyssentishman> do any porters here use the git mirror to fetch and work on the ports tree?
23:37 < thyssentishman> I know the mirror is only updated with an interval of a few minutes, but has anyone had problems working with that?
23:37 < phy1729> If my once in a blue moon patches count, sure
23:37 < phy1729> It's every few hours + not the latest commit
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23:42 < seninha> pardis: c type is kinda read right-to-left: `int const *p[]` reads "p is an array of pointer to const int"
23:42 < Bradipo> That's not exactly right to left...
23:43 < phy1729> iirc the usual explanation is "in a spiral"
23:44 < thrig> downward spiral
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 30 00:00:04 2024