--- Log opened Fri Feb 09 00:00:18 2024
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00:16 < basiic> I came to OpenBSD as the only reasonable OS for 32 bit ThinkPad X60s. Very grateful to discover OpenBSD #NewWorld 
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00:25 < dlg> doesnt amd64 run on the x60?
00:26 < ssm_> it's either i386 or amd64
00:26 < ssm_> I'm guessing i386 because a lot of desktop linuxes stopped support it
00:26 < ssm_> s/support/&ing
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00:43 < Bradipo> Well, also it depends on what you want to do with i386... Firefox on i386 has become unsupported.
00:43 < Bradipo> Other things too if I'm not mistaken.
00:44 < basiic> OpenBSD is gold for supporting 32 bit systems
00:44 < basiic> (and for many other reasons)
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00:56 < basiic> Successor of X60, the X61 supports amd64, though X60 advantage is internally flashed firmware (gnuboot, canoeboot), which in combination with OpenBSD makes the machine ethical
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01:31 < mischief> bit ot, but anyone know if there's a magic trick for getting tmux to resize over a serial line without SIGWINCH?
01:36 < Bradipo> kill -WINCH <pidoftmux> ?
01:36 < Bradipo> Not sure if that signal can be sent this way.
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01:39 < mischief> it seems like it doesn't query the terminal for the size if you do that
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01:59 < Lucas6023> mischief: take a look at stty -a; maybe rows and columns are misconfigured
01:59 < Lucas6023> idk how that happens, but it happens
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01:59 < mischief> of course it is wrong, there's no sigwinch
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02:13 < Bradipo> mischief: Well, kill -l has: 28  WINCH Window size changes
02:13 < Bradipo> So there most certainly is a sigwinch...
02:13 < Bradipo> Oh, you mean the rows/columns in stty -a are wrong, lol.
02:14 < mischief> yes, but sigwinch just makes the program re-read the ioctl that tells the program the rows/cols
02:15 < mischief> it's simply not being updated over the serial line.
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08:02 < jrmu> is there any substitute for xdotool that is part of openbsd base? I need xdotool for manipulating the mouse with my keyboard because my trackpad broke
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08:06 < prahou> jrmu: you can use cwm, it has bindings for mouse control see cwmrc(5)
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08:06 < jrmu> prahou: Interesting yes, I did read about cwm having some bindings, but AFAIK there was no mousemove command? Let me check again
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08:07 < prahou> jrmu: pointer-move-up etc
08:07 < jrmu> since the trackpad is totally not functional, I need some way to be able to navigate GUIs
08:07 < jrmu> oh wow nice!
08:08 < jrmu> I have to give this a try!
08:08 < jrmu> it also has a nice keybinding, this seems superior to xdotool
08:09 < prahou> afaik it respects the 'moveamount <pixels>', so you can make it a bit faster
08:09 < jrmu> Yeah actually cwm was what inspired me, I read about it in mwl's absolute openbsd book, he said cwm can emulate mouse clicks
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08:09 < jrmu> I checked cwm(5) and didn't find anything about mouse move so I gave up prematurely I guess
08:10 < jrmu> well if this works I'm switching from fvwm to cwm from now on
08:11 < prahou> good luck
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08:43 < jrmu> is there any way to emulate a mouse down/mouse click with cwm?
08:43 < jrmu> I can't seem to find it in cwmrc(5) or cwm(1)
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08:53 < prahou> jrmu: how about that, I don't see it either. I guess your next bet is xmodmap. you can rebind keyboard keys to mouse clicks
08:54 < jrmu> yeah taking a look now
08:54 < jrmu> a friend of mine also suggested setxkbmap
08:54 < jrmu> thanks prahou 
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08:58 < ABBBF> I have an issue with my networking setup
08:59 < ABBBF> I am binding two interfaces using a bridge
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08:59 < ABBBF> one has an ip address and works fine when used directly
09:00 < ABBBF> when I snoop on the traffic on the interface with the ip, I can see traffic coming in. now when I try and connect to the ip address from the same subnet on the other interface attached to the bridge it fails (there is no reply on the tcp/ip layer). There was a succesful arp request, but the arp table does not get updated successfully. Instead, I see "(incomplete)"
09:01 < ABBBF> The interface with the IP can see the TCP connect request being sent to it
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09:36 < rIMpossible> How can I change the input language in (a) terminals (b) X programs, like firefox, xfe, libreoffice, ...
09:36 < rIMpossible> ?
09:36 < rIMpossible> LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8
09:37 < natmeo> rIMpossible: you mean how to switch languages?
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09:38 < rIMpossible> natmeo: yes
09:38 < natmeo> setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us,ru,il -option grp:win_space_toggle
09:38 < natmeo> this will switch the layout with win + space
09:40 < rIMpossible> natmeo: thank you, that was a great help
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09:48 < kodcode> how can I know which packages are part of a meta package before?
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11:02 < dansimon> Has anyone experimented with sndiod in a vmd Linux guest, is it possible to forward audio to the OpenBSD host..?
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11:05 < dansimon> does vmd support audio on its clients at all?
11:07 < IcePic> don't think so
11:07 < sibiria> no
11:07 < IcePic> but sndiod can talk network I think
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11:17 < op2> dansimon: never did with linux under vmd, but once i forwarded audio from openbsd to a linux machine, sndiod works fine over the network
11:18 < op2> so if you manage to have the linux vm using sndio properly (it's not really popular there), then forwarding it to openbsd should work, or at least that's what i'd expect
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11:25 < dansimon> op2: yeah, that's what I'm working on, but no lock so far. I'm wondering if vmd doesn't emulate audio hardware, and as such, is not capable of forwarding any audio over the network...
11:26 < dansimon> when I try to use sndio in debian in a vmd, I just get a lot of cant find audio card errors
11:29 < op2> dansimon: i guess most of this applies on linux as well: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#audionet
11:30 < op2> basically you need to be running sndio with -L- on openbsd host
11:30 < op2> and have sndio on the linux guest be using sd@10.0.0.N/0 as address of the remote system
11:30 < op2> i'm also supposing the vm can talk to the host
11:31 < op2> note that while it seems a CIDR, it's not.  the /0 is the device on the remote ip address IIRC
11:31 < pardis> dansimon: you don't need audio hardware to forward audio over the network
11:31 < pardis> when properly configured to forward over a network, sndiod won't try to access any audio hardware at all
11:32 < sibiria> dansimon: vmd does not emulate audio hardware, as said earlier. it does cpu, network, disk and serial. nothing more at the moment
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11:32 < dansimon> op2: Ah, I didn't know about AUDIODEVICE, thanks :)
11:33 < oldlaptop> dansimon: I haven't done precisely the configuration you're talking about before (openbsd host running linux guests in vmd), but yes, that'll work just fine.
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11:35 < oldlaptop> I don't as much these days, but freely mixing linux and openbsd as sndio clients and sndio servers has worked fine for quite a while; the main issue will be that most applications as built by most linuxes will either not have sndio support enabled at all or will prioritize everything else (alsa, pulse, etc etc) above it
11:36 < oldlaptop> For the meaning of "configure your program to use snd@hostname/0" and such things, you'll want to read sndiod(8) and sndio(7)
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11:36 < oldlaptop> (Note carefully the line about ~/.sndio/cookie)
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11:37 < dansimon> hm... AUDIODEVICE='snd@<my host>/0' aucat -i test.wav' still gives: default: couldn't open audio device
11:37 < dansimon> I can ssh into and out of the guest to the host
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11:38 < oldlaptop> That suggests it's not picking up the setting; are you sure you didn't typo it? and that the program really is running with that environment variable set?
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11:38 < oldlaptop> In the case of aucat(1) you probably don't want to use AUDIODEVICE= at the commandline like that, read the manpage with attention to the -f option
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11:39 < oldlaptop> (Oh, no, it would still be default, wouldn't it. :|)
11:41 < dansimon> It could be a Debian issue I suppose...
11:41 < oldlaptop> Are you certain you either have ~/.sndio/cookie arranged correctly or that there are no other open connections on that sndiod?
11:42 < dansimon> I copied the cookie from the host to the guest, the host is still using the sound card, but no other systems
11:43 < op2> mmhh maybe it's a quirk of how sndio-portable works?
11:43 < op2> it could be interesting to spin an openbsd vm to test
11:43 < oldlaptop> I would try to make sure "the host" isn't "still using the sound card"
11:44 < oldlaptop> (for troubleshooting whether you have the cookie arranged correctly)
11:44 < dansimon> Yeah, I can do that, just give me a few minutes...
11:44 < oldlaptop> That applies between different users on the same host, incidentally. (If, f.ex., you have mpd running as _mpd and you running as dansimon, they can share the sound card only if you've arranged for both to have the same cookie)
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12:12 < dansimon> Ok, installed an obsd vmd guest, same issue
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12:14 < dansimon> host rc.conf.local: sndio_flags="-L-" scp ~/.sndio/cookie from host, tried AUDIODEVICE="snd@192.168.86.245/0" aucat -i test.wav, I still get: default: couldnt open audio device
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12:18 < dansimon> Do I need to disable sndio output on the host first..?
12:18 < oldlaptop> <oldlaptop> I would try to make sure "the host" isn't "still using the sound card"
12:18 < oldlaptop> <oldlaptop> (for troubleshooting whether you have the cookie arranged correctly)
12:19 < dansimon> I'm not sure I understand? I can play audio on the host
12:19 < oldlaptop> I'm sure you can.
12:20 < dansimon> No, but what does 'still using the sound card' mean, that I shouldn't run two audio programs simultaniously, one on the host one on the guest, or that audio must be disabled on the host to allow audio on the guest?
12:21 < oldlaptop> I'm suggesting you make sure nothing else is connected to the same sndiod.
12:21 < oldlaptop> I only say "using the sound card" because <dansimon> I copied the cookie from the host to the guest, the host is still using the sound card, but no other systems
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12:22 < dansimon> So.., do I need to remove the host cookie or something?
12:22 < oldlaptop> It might also be helpful to explain exactly what you did with the cookie, etc. (i.e. where did you copy it, under what name?)
12:23 < oldlaptop> If you remove the host cookie, libsndio will create a new one the first time you try to connect to an sndiod.
12:24 < dansimon> scp <host>~/.sndio/cookie ~/.sndio, so that ~/sndio/cookie on both host and guest are identical, both using the same user name
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12:25 < oldlaptop> Can you try using aucat -f instead of messing with environment variables, to be absolutely certain it's using the device specification you want?
12:25 < oldlaptop> ISTR one or more -ds may provide useful information also
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12:28 < dansimon> (from guest) aucat -f snd@192.168.86.245/0 -dd -i test.wav gives: sample-3s.wav,pst=cfg: play, chan 0:1, 44100Hz, s16le, bytes 44..563756, vol 8388608, followed by the error: snd@192.168.86.245/0: couldn't open audio device
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12:30 < oldlaptop> If you can run sndiod with -d on the other end too, that should show connection attempts
12:31 < oldlaptop> (I would `# rcctl stop sndiod; sndiod -ddL -` or something roughly similar)
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12:33 < dansimon> Oh, now it worked!
12:33 < tercaL> I have a weird habit of, -as a first step after a fresh installation-, disabling sndiod on OpenBSD servers (web/mail servers). I don't if that hurts something or not.
12:34 < dansimon> Face palm! I forgot a space in /etc/rc.conf.local, 'sndio_flags=-L -', not '-L-'
12:34 < oldlaptop> That'll do it
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12:34 < dansimon> Thanks for your patience :)
12:34 < oldlaptop> tercaL: It wastes however many seconds of your valuable time it takes to disable sndiod
12:35 < oldlaptop> otherwise should be pretty much irrelevant
12:35 < oldlaptop> kind of like wasting time to type -gameXX.tgz at installation
12:37 < oldlaptop> (only instead of saving a massive 2M of disk you're saving a stupendous... looks like ~10ms of CPU time over 48 days, on the router here at the moment)
12:37 < sibiria> RAM use, attack surface, etc. :P
12:37 < oldlaptop> I guess you probably spent more CPU time than that disabling it too
12:37 < sibiria> i disable things that have no reason to be running in the background
12:38 < oldlaptop> rss for the two sndiod processes there is <2k, I would assess real attack surface from sndiod in the default configuration as zero
12:39 < sibiria> sndiod, dhcpd, resolvd etc... if i don't use it, it has no reason to be running
12:39 < oldlaptop> There was a time when it would actually end up with nontrivial CPU usage over time (still not really practically relevant, but it would stack up a few minutes in ps over a few months, something like that)
12:39 < oldlaptop> it doesn't do that now
12:40 < tercaL> sibiria: +1
12:42 < oldlaptop> sibiria: I don't contend there's anything significantly wrong with that, just that in most of those cases you're not gaining anything either
12:43 < sibiria> i'll turn the question around: spamd, nfsd and vmd are disabled by default. do you lose anything by not enabling them despite not using them?
12:43  * tercaL grew up with these kind of advices; http://geodsoft.com/howto/harden/OpenBSD/remove_files.htm
12:43 < sibiria> if you stand nothing to lose, just fire them up and let them sit unused and idle
12:43 < oldlaptop> That would be wasting time for no gain too :)
12:44 < sibiria> there's never a loss in keeping a clean home
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12:44 < oldlaptop> tercaL: (that page appears to contain some pretty bad advice)
12:45 < tercaL> oldlaptop: It was a joke, anyways :) It's a well-known page according to its horribility.
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12:46 < tercaL> Instead, I care to keep the home clean.
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15:22 < ABBBF> Anyone good with bridges?
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15:23 < IcePic> I used software bridges some 20 years ago when "transparent firewalls" was the new hot thing, but it gets much harder to debug, so I stopped designing things like that 
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15:25 < IcePic> new there is veb, tpmr and vethers to help you confuse packets
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15:29 < ABBBF> I'm confused, I got something simple
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15:33 < miah> describe problem, sometimes just stating the issue will help you figure it out
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15:33 < thrig> what's that rubber duckie, I should steal from the poor and give to the rich?
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15:34 < miah> reverse that
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15:35 < ABBBF> a VLAN interface and a physical and I wanted to bind them with a bridge
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15:35 < ABBBF> to connect two networks
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15:40 < mischief> at l2?
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16:16 < Lucas6023> I don't believe you need a bridge for that
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16:17 < Lucas6023> what's your idea? to have tagged and untagged packets in the physical interface?
16:17 < Lucas6023> that can be achieve by configuring an IP address in both the physical interface and the vlan interface, afair
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16:41 < bilaliscarioth> Curious about hardware development i wanted to try to add support to my touchpad/synaptics for lenovo ideapad3, but can I break my touchpad if i do something wrong ?
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16:56 < mischief> probably no
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16:57 < bilaliscarioth> that makes me feel better than before lmao
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16:59 < bilaliscarioth> thx about it !
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18:57 < vortexx> talking of bridges... do any of the newer bridge interfaces in OpenBSD like tpmr work for giving public IPs to VMs over wifi interfaces? Normally that just works with wired ethernet
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19:02 < Lucas6023> vortexx: maybe veb(4)?
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19:11 < vortexx> Lucas6023: yeah maybe
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19:59 < avemestr> Finally Word will be available on OpenBSD: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=170742832804260&w=2
19:59 < fettuccine> lmao what
20:00 < fettuccine> based
20:01 < thrig> someone is being very silly
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20:03 < uwharrie> similar to the sshv3 thing
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20:18 < lts> I hope they include similar features like that sudo on Windows. Like "any user on the same system can connect to this service and execute sudo commands" https://www.tiraniddo.dev/2024/02/sudo-on-windows-quick-rundown.html
20:19 < Bradipo> I was tempted to respond and suggest that April 1st ist still many days away.
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20:20 < Bradipo> But why?  Windows already has runas.
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20:20 < avemestr> New Go version 1.22 adds an experimental port to OpenBSD on big-endian 64-bit PowerPC (openbsd/ppc64). Nice: https://go.dev/doc/go1.22
20:21 < echelon> interesting
20:21 < echelon> does it fix go's implementation of pledge?
20:22 < echelon> nope, issue still open.. https://github.com/golang/go/issues/60322
20:25 < avemestr> At least they acknowledge it as something that should be fixed (hard) or at least documented.
20:25 < jrmu> my laptop has azalia0: no supported codecs , so when I try to play a video file with vlc, I get this error message [0000008e4eaae060] main audio output error: module not functional [0000008ea80f9060] main decoder error: failed to create audio output [0000008e4eaae060] sndio audio output error: cannot create audio playback stream
20:26 < jrmu> Is there any way to redirect the audio even without hardware to support it? So the audio can be played on another device
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20:31 < oldlaptop> Obviously they'll need to support the rest of the msoffice suite; linking /usr/bin/sqlite3 as Excel should be a good start
20:32 < oldlaptop> (of course they'd have to reimport sqlite, but that's a trifling small price to pay for Excel functionality)
20:32 < jrmu> I was wondering if it would be possible to stream that audio over the network and play it on another laptop, or maybe use an external usb headset to play it
20:32 < oldlaptop> jrmu: I'd expect a USB headset to mostly Just Work these days(?)
20:33 < oldlaptop> see sndiod(8) (with attention to -L) and sndio(7) for network transparency, that's definitely possible
20:33 < jrmu> would it work even if the internal sound card is not working?
20:33 < jrmu> I could try to buy one in that case
20:33 < oldlaptop> A USB headset is a sound card.
20:33 < jrmu> ah ok cool, let me give that a try
20:33 < oldlaptop> (I would rather have a more general USB sound card)
20:33 < uwharrie> jrmu: you could configure sndiod to stream to another sndiod
20:34 < oldlaptop> SNDIOD_FLAGS=-f snd@some.host/0 or so :)
20:34 < oldlaptop> (as you'll see in those pages)
20:35 < jrmu> ok thanks oldlaptop uwharrie , will research
20:35  * oldlaptop missed this one: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=170743166806910&w=2
20:36 < Bradipo> oldlaptop: That needs to be added to cowsay.
20:36 < oldlaptop> should be a straightforward... yes
20:36 < oldlaptop> then should be easy to integrate with the new Word(1), especially with the old M-x theo code
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22:44 < Bradipo> Can I not force an unmount of NFS that is hung?
22:44 < Bradipo> I'm trying: umount -f /mnt/nfsshare
22:44 < Bradipo> But it's just stuck.
22:47 < vortexx> if it fails, reboot is usually the only answer
22:47 < Bradipo> I see: nfs server hostname:/path: not responding, but I know that already, that's why I'm trying to unmount it.
22:47 < Bradipo> Bah, ok.
22:47 < Bradipo> Well, that's unfortunate.
22:47 < vortexx> yeah, it's one of the issues with nfs
22:48 < Bradipo> If I bring up a different machine on the same IP, will it perhaps free up?
22:48 < vortexx> I forgot to umount before going off to Christmas and spent 16 days with unresponsive NFS and then came home and it worked again. Couldn't be bothered to reboot :)
22:48 < vortexx> maybe
22:48 < Bradipo> I may give that a try.
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22:50 < avemestr> I get the same issue with sshfs. Just stuck and requires a hard reboot because even shutdown/reboot don't complete.
22:52 < uwharrie> it's a property of most *nix kernels to refuse to allow actions on processes/files/mounts that have pending IO
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22:55 < avemestr> Yep, but the problem is one cannot force an umount either. Fair enough if a mount dies - especially a remote one due to whatever circumstances (network, remote host, etc). But it ought to be possible to force a umount and then lose whatever was pending and remount afterwards to resume operations.
22:56 < avemestr> (I'm not saying it's an easy issue to fix, at all)
22:57 < Bradipo> Right, I hope that a fake IP will allow it to unmount.
22:57 < uwharrie> I'd always assumed the failure scenarios of deciding who had the last successful IO and which side held the correct state were too numerous to resolve, so simpler systems have always punted to a reboot
22:58 < Bradipo> Yeah, that will be my final solution if all else fails.
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23:11 < Bradipo> Yep, a bogus IP freed it up.
23:11 < Bradipo> I started a new NFS server on the old IP and OpenBSD said: is alive again
23:11 < Bradipo> Now I can unmount and remount.
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 10 00:00:19 2024