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00:34 < Bradipo> Trying to write a sed one-liner rather than save it in a file...
00:34 < Bradipo> I have the following: sed -ne 's/\(abc\)efg/\1/;t m;b;:m;s/\.$//p'
00:34 < Bradipo> It gives no errors, but also doesn't seem to work on matching input (or non-matching input).
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00:35 < Bradipo> If I write the same sed commands separated by newlines in a file and then use sed -f filename it works, but I would prefer to not have to use a file.
00:36 < Bradipo> Since it's embedded in a script.
00:37 < Bradipo> The only thing that I can figure is that there is some strange undefined behavior, even though the man page does say: "Following the b, t, or : commands with a semicolon and another command is an extension to the specification."
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07:17 < polezaivsani> Hello, Puffies! I'm flustered, there is a world of difference between good and bad docs, especially when facing the subpar ones coming from splendid manuals of OpenBSD
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07:20 < polezaivsani> thinking about it, i wonder if there is some mindset or principles or tennets that can help foster documentation as good as OpenBSD's?
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07:31 < vdamewood> https://documentation.divio.com
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07:38 < polezaivsani> thanks, vdamewood, i'll have a look. i understand the topic of documentation is vast by itself and i prob ain't gonna dive too deep, but learning from known good specimens is too nice a party to learn from
07:38 < pardis> OpenBSD's approach is generally "add documentation when you make the code change"
07:38 < pardis> diffs without man page additions are often rejected
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07:42 < polezaivsani> this rule should help keep the code and docs synchronized i wager; are there some principles that help keep the manuals concise and on point? hoping that it's not just the innate chops of the people involved :)
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07:44 < polezaivsani> * thinking out loud, or is there some correlation between the technical profficiency and ability to write clean documentation?!
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07:47 < IcePic> polezaivsani: I think pardis' explanation is the correct one, if you accept people adding complex code, binaries and things without decent docs to go along with it, you will move towards worse and worse docs as time goes
07:48 < IcePic> a new obsd developer that creates some binary and makes a half-good manpage for it will probably get the code in, and then man-page "experts" will help you fix up the last details, but it would be rejected if it had no docs at all
07:50 < polezaivsani> i'd trade a bunch of best tea i have to hear a brief from those man-page experts on how they do it!
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07:57 < polezaivsani> writing the docs in the first place is an important requirement, but not sufficient to do a good job of it; i remember a nice book 'Style: towards clarity and grace' on clear writing in tech and science mostly; will see if i could improve the ugly docs myself
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12:44 < anexit> Is there a way to turn off tcp6?
12:45 < sibiria> yes but why
12:46 < sibiria> just leave it
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12:47 < lts> Everything not used should be disabled :-) 
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12:48 < anexit> well I installed this app
12:49 < sibiria> "ipv6 scary. lots of numbers. i best disable it"
12:49 < anexit> and it will not listen on tcp4
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12:50 < sibiria> there's an annoying linuxism that has taken root, in how linux allows dual-stack behavior by binding to IPv6
12:51 < sibiria> just tell the "app" to specifically listen on ipv4
12:51 < anexit> https://actualbudget.org/docs/install/local
12:51 < anexit> yeah thats what I'm looking into
12:51 < anexit> it's working though, so thats good
12:53 < lts> -inet6 into /etc/hostname.<if> should help (per if)
12:54 < sibiria> disabling ipv6 to solve misconfigured/misbehaving "app" is like cutting hand off because thumb aches
12:54 < lts> And I'm not disabling ipv6 because I'd be unfamiliar with it, I'm disabling it because I'm familiar with it :-)
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13:40 < anexit> well even disabling doesn't work
13:40 < anexit> it's like :: means ipvr
13:40 < anexit> ipv6, time to do some digging.
13:41 < IcePic> a one-liner in pf would stop all v6 if one needed to
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13:51 < Lucas6023> anexit: the application logs in what address it's listening on. What does it show?
13:52 < sibiria> ::, likely
13:52 < sibiria> anexit: :: is ipv6 equivalent of 0.0.0.0
13:52 < sibiria> that is, "listen on all interfaces"
13:53 < sibiria> the application is probably guilty of being linux-centric
13:53 < anexit> It's Checking if there are any migrations to run for direction "up"...
13:53 < anexit> Migrations: DONE
13:53 < anexit> Listening on :::5006...
13:53 < anexit> it's nodejs
13:54 < sibiria> disgusting. but just tell it to listen on something else
13:54 < anexit> I'm not familiar here
13:54 < anexit> wife wants it for budget
13:54 < anexit> so I'm trying to make it work
13:54 < anexit> works on ipv6 :D  but my home network is v4
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13:55 < sibiria> no reason it can't be both
13:55 < anexit> yeah
13:56 < anexit> I'll ask in nodejs
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13:57 < sibiria> would be surprised if the application doesn't have a configurable option for the host and port...
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13:59 < anexit> I searched all files for port 5006 and it's nothing
13:59 < anexit> ha
14:00 < sibiria> doubtful :)
14:00 < sibiria> there will be at the very least an environment variable or two in a package file
14:00 < sibiria> you just didn't search
14:00 < sibiria> or even read the documentation!
14:01 < sibiria> https://actualbudget.org/docs/config/#hostname
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14:09 < remiliascarlet> They've been fearmongering about IPv4 addresses running out even more than they've been fearmongering about global warming/cooling, which they renamed to "climate change" so that their useful idiots won't have be able to question it anymore.
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14:10 < sibiria> ipv4 addresses did run out. long ago. and now it costs a premium to own a subnet, and a premium to lease a single one
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14:26 < anexit> sibiria: Works both ways though, sepctrum will not hand ipv6 withouth chopping an arm off.
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14:29 < anexit> I figure this out, some config file in /src
14:29 < anexit> setting it to 0.0.0.0 worked
14:29 < anexit> lol
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14:36 < sibiria> a config file. whoddathunkit
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14:52 < remiliascarlet> sibiria: And yet they're still able to distribute IPv4 addresses.
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14:53 < IcePic> remiliascarlet: which "they"?
14:53 < remiliascarlet> Everyone.
14:53 < sibiria> remiliascarlet: because sometimes, very rarely, they're deallocated by honest owners. mostly they're traded for profit
14:53 < IcePic> I think you haven't tried to acquire v4s in a long while
14:54 < sibiria> running out of ipv4 addresses doesn't mean "you can't use ipv4 anymore". it means "now you gotta pay more"
14:54 < IcePic> its nothing like the first 40 or so years
14:54 < remiliascarlet> Oh yes I did.
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14:55 < remiliascarlet> From what I understood is that mobile networks have moved to IPv6-only quite some time ago, which should have freed up IPv4 for actual computers.
14:55 < Lucas6023> I mean, it became bad enough that even big clouds are charging for IPv4s now
14:55 < IcePic> mobile never had real v4s
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14:55 < IcePic> so them moving to v6 did not help a lot
14:55 < remiliascarlet> Ah.
14:56 < Lucas6023> I'm p sure that isn't the case in a big part of the world
14:56 < sibiria> and even if the operators did sit on tonnes of ipv4, they still see no reason to deallocate them rather than sell them
14:56 < Lucas6023> and instead it's CGNAT all the way down
14:56 < IcePic> but saying it is like before is like saying "one can still buy oldsmobiles like before". Sure you can buy an oldsmobile of three if you have the cash, but they don't come out of the factory anymore, but instead swap meets or used-car-salesmen
14:56 < Lucas6023> CGNAT, another thing that wouldn't make sense if there were enough IPv4s
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14:59  * remiliascarlet waits for IPv6 addresses to run out so that IPv8 gets announced.
15:00 < Lucas6023> those should be relatively safe. Lots of providers are giving /48 for free or a relatively cheap one-off payment.
15:01 < Lucas6023> the real question is what happened with IPv5
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15:03 < anexit> Whats so hard about ipv6?
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15:05 < IcePic> iTs DiFfeRenT
15:05 < sibiria> it's scary
15:05 < sibiria> has colons in it, too
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15:06 < sibiria> it's certainly a lot more complex. but so is the internet compared to when ipv4 was created
15:06 < sibiria> ipv6 solves more problems than just the constraint of the address space
15:06 < phy1729> There's also a bit of "we do everything automagically!" then realizing no DHCP is still necessary
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15:06 < IcePic> phy1729: yeah, slaac can't tell you about the printers ip, like dhcp can
15:07 < lts> Enjoy the renumbering event
15:07 < phy1729> slaac also doesn't do PD
15:07 < anexit> Oddly enough we deployed ipv6 and no one useses it.. we also deployed ENIP and .. no one uses it
15:07 < anexit> ha
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15:08 < sibiria> SLAAC doesn't seem to be able to relay a static IPV6 address either. at least that's the conundrum i'm in currently. but then again i don't know much about networking
15:08 < sibiria> i get the impression it's more along the lines of "here's an entire prefix for you. pick any address you want"
15:08 < anexit> https://seam.cs.umd.edu/EnhancedIP/learnmore.html
15:08 < IcePic> sibiria: no, but that is not the intent with slaac
15:09 < anexit> you don't need slaac just use router ads
15:09 < remiliascarlet> IPv& is very hard to remember.
15:09 < remiliascarlet> That's the issue I have with it.
15:09 < phy1729> There are RFCs for which addresses you can pick
15:09 < anexit> https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-5.1/rtadvd.8
15:09 < IcePic> remiliascarlet: you know what, that is what NetBEUI,Appletalk and IPX users said about ipv4 in the early 90s
15:10 < IcePic> remiliascarlet: in the bad old days, the non-tcpip protocols would just name your computer "BOBSCOMPUTER" and that was it. FAR easier than 12.34.56.78, by a huuuge margin
15:10 < anexit> remiliascarlet: Not reall, you're going to have things that you can con join using double ::
15:11  * IcePic knows you can ping6 sprint at 2600:: , can't remember their v4 ip. ;)
15:11 < remiliascarlet> I also find IPv4 easier to allocate which part means what for local addresses. 192.168 = OK, that's local. .x.x = that one machine of that particular segment of this network.
15:12 < remiliascarlet> Meanwhile with IPv6: "where the fuck do I even start?".
15:12 < anexit> See thats where you need to think outside the box though
15:12 < sibiria> do consider: hostnames
15:12 < anexit> picture all devices having their own "public" ip
15:13 < anexit> unless you want nat... which is possible I suppose
15:13 < IcePic> 192.168 is local? I thought that was the remote network I had in the cloud setup? Or behind the corp vpn? Or the free wifi at McD
15:13 < anexit> but even NAT doesn't mean your "safe" or private honestly.
15:13 < anexit> RFC 10/ 192 etc is private networks or local basically.
15:14 < anexit> Which RFC has for IPV6 as well if you want that.
15:14 < remiliascarlet> 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, and 172.16.x.x (I believe? Haven't seen this one being used in 16 years now) are local.
15:14 < remiliascarlet> 127.0.0.1 is localhost.
15:14 < anexit> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4864
15:14 < IcePic> they are unroutable
15:15 < phy1729> 10/8 172.12/12 192.186/16
15:15 < phy1729> er 172.16/12
15:15 < IcePic> phy1729: and .168.
15:15 < anexit> The bigger issue is change
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15:15 < thrig> there are several localhost addesses in ipv4
15:15 < anexit> so a lot of things are in place
15:15 < anexit> I suspect there will always be a divide with ipv4/v6
15:16 < phy1729> IcePic: look it's early :p
15:16 < IcePic> phy1729: =)
15:16 < remiliascarlet> It has been early for 2 decades.
15:16 < phy1729> IP addresses need check digits /s
15:16 < remiliascarlet> IPv6 has been around since the 2000's if I'm not mistaking.
15:16 < anexit> v6.. 90s
15:16 < lts> Ipv6 is older than IPv4 NAT
15:17 < lts> Well, older than RFC 1918 technically
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15:17 < remiliascarlet> And what happened with IPv1, 2, 3, and 5?
15:17 < lts> Its main accomplishment has been preventing us from getting a proper ipv4 replacement
15:18 < IcePic> remiliascarlet: https://www.lifewire.com/what-happened-to-ipv5-3971327
15:18 < remiliascarlet> "a proper ipv4 replacement" Like I2P's "domains"?
15:19 < lts> Something that would have more IP addresses than ipv4, and would be better, equally as good, or at least not too much worse than ipv4
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15:21 < remiliascarlet> I actually like how I2P does things. You can just generate as many B32 addresses as you want, and you can then generate a shorter .i2p "domain", although it requires others to add it to their address books.
15:22 < remiliascarlet> There's no IP address involved at all.
15:23 < anexit> I'm going to say there has to be. otherwise it wouldn't be routable across a BGP appliance
15:24 < anexit> As far as I know most AS accept v4/v6 with some accepting enip
15:24 < remiliascarlet> There isn't. But you're limited to the I2P network only, which is pretty much empty if you don't speak Russian.
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15:47 < ludovicus> I2P outnodes are rare
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15:47 < ludovicus> I'm considering archiving stuff then hosting through I2P
15:48 < ludovicus> but that's a lot of stuff
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15:53 < Bradipo> I mentioned this yesterday but had to leave...
15:54 < Bradipo> Any thoughts on how to make this work: sed -ne 's/\(abc\)efg/\1/;t m;b;:m;s/\.$//p'
15:54 < Bradipo> It seems that when using ; as command separators, it doesn't do any actual matching or branching or something.
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15:54 < Bradipo> If I write the same thing into a file and use -f it works.
15:55 < Bradipo> Neither does this work: sed -ne 's/\(abc\)efg/\1/' -e 't m' -e 'b' -e ':m' -e 's/\.$//p'
15:59 < phy1729> Can you explain the goal in english first?
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16:00 < Bradipo> On lines matching abcefg output only abc, everything else is output as-is.
16:00 < Bradipo> e.g. abcefg -> abc, but abcdefg -> abcdefg
16:01 < phy1729> Ok that's the first bit
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16:01 < Bradipo> the 't m' branches to m if there was a successful replacement to produce abc.
16:05 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@171.221.44.240] has quit [Quit: tozhu]
16:05 < Bradipo> If there is no match, then it branches to the end of the script.
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16:06 < Bradipo> But... therein may actually be the problem... what does "end of script" mean?
16:06 < Bradipo> I think I assumed it meant "last line of script".
16:06 < Bradipo> So that may be one problem.
16:06 < Bradipo> Well, no, because this works fine if I use -f.
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16:18 < rynn> When relayd fails to start, is there any place I can view messages to determine why it failed to start?
16:18 < jrmu> $ doas relayd -d
16:18 < jrmu> should show error output
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16:19 < rynn> So it does syslog anything by default?
16:19 < rynn> *doesn't
16:22 < jrmu> hm, syslog might put errors somewhere in /var/log/{daemon,messages}
16:22 < rynn> Thanks!
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16:23 < Bradipo> I have relayd logs in /var/log/daemon
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16:33 < sibiria> you can redirect that in /etc/syslog.conf
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16:40 < Bradipo> Which for a busy relayd you may want to do.
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16:41 < dfdx> Hi #openbsd, I noticed that when I run "ls -l" something interesting is happening with the dates.
16:41 < dfdx> drwxr-xr-x   5 root  wheel   512 Aug 12  2023 2023-08-12/
16:41 < dfdx> drwxr-xr-x   5 root  wheel   512 Nov 22 01:31 2023-11-21/
16:41 < dfdx> Notice how the first date is "2023" but the second is "Nov 22 01:31" (which is also in 2023!)
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16:41 < dfdx> is there a way to have the month and time show for any file (directories included) only if its in the calendar year i'm in right now?
16:42 < Bradipo> -T ?
16:43 < dfdx> meh. -T is overkill, though.
16:43 < Bradipo> Obvoiusly ls -l is showing timestamps only if it's "recent", for some definition of "recent".
16:43 < dfdx> i'm trying to simplify, not get even more granular.
16:43 < dfdx> Bradipo: correct.
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16:43 < dfdx> just curious if anyone knows how to adjust "recent" :)
16:45 < phy1729> I suppose you could change #define SIXMONTHS       (SECSPERDAY * 365 / 2)   in src/bin/ls/print.c
16:45 < phy1729> (printtime around 250 is where that gets used and does the time printing)
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16:47 < dfdx> phy1729: aha, i'll dig into that. thanks!
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 08 00:00:52 2024