--- Log opened Tue Mar 19 00:00:07 2024
00:00 < ssm_> I figure I need to set up unbound and use the `request name-server` option in iked.conf, but as you can see unbound doesn't want to start on anything but 127.0.0.1 it seems
00:01 < ssm_> if there's a simpler way than using unbound I'd rather use that
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01:00 < vortexx> thrig: I've just spent 4 hours upgrading the laptop (2020 XPS 9310, I7 cpu, 32Gb of ram, fast SSD) and the lag in GNOME after a few minutes was phenomenal. Like 30s between typing something and it appearing in the terminal
01:00 < vortexx> and if you switch terminals it appears in the new one instead of the one you typed into
01:00 < vortexx> (this is in 7.5)
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01:43 < e54> Hello all, is 7.5 released soon? 
01:43 < cat5> I have a much less powerful openbsd desktop, but opening gtk programs, browsers etc and everything happens virtually instantaneous
01:43 < cat5> however, I'm not running dogshit (gnome)
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01:46 < e54> Im going to give it a try again. Only problem I have had in past, warm cpu. Other than that I love it
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01:59 < oldlaptop> e54: It's been tagged (https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/?only_with_tag=OPENBSD_7_5) for some time now. The current planned release date appears to be April 5, but that may well change. (See https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/etc/root/root.mail - you'll note the initial guess was the 4th, and that got bumped back a couple of weeks ago.)
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02:45 < e54> oldlaptop: Thanks
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16:56 < alepzi-> is it a syntax error to make a udp pf rule that has "flags any" because that doesn't apply to udp rules?
17:01 < thrig> udp has flags?
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17:09 < alepzi-> no
17:10 < alepzi-> that's my point
17:10 < alepzi-> if i put flags any on a udp rule i don't get a syntax error but shouldn't i?
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17:11 < Bradipo> Syntax is probably correct, just doesn't apply.
17:15 < pardis> I suppose one could argue that flags being undefined by the protocol falls under "any"
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17:17 < pardis> looking at /usr/src/sbin/pfctl/parse.y, FLAGS ANY is represented by setting $$.b1 = 0 and $$.b2 = 0
17:18 < pardis> then later, an error is thrown for non-tcp protocols if either b1 or b2 is not zero
17:18 < pardis> so either this is by design and the "any" case really just means "don't look at flags", or this is a bug
17:19 < thrig> probably worth a clarification on teh lists?
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17:21 < pardis> ah, it looks like the check for flags with non-tcp was added before 'flags any'
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17:22 < pardis> 'flags any' was added here in Oct 2006: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sbin/pfctl/parse.y#rev1.504
17:23 < pardis> whereas the logic for validating combinations of proto and flags dates from Jul 2002: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sbin/pfctl/parse.y#rev1.135
17:24 < Bradipo> I do know that rules like this haven't caused problems: pass in proto { tcp, udp, icmp } from any to any flags S
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17:24 < pardis> indeed, but try: echo 'pass in proto udp flags S' | pfctl -nf-
17:24 < Bradipo> Yep, that's invalid.
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17:25 < Bradipo> I get a syntax error.
17:25 < pardis> me too
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17:26 < pardis> it's only the 'flags any' case that doesn't trip the error condition
17:26 < Bradipo> Though, I also get the syntax error when I add tcp to that...
17:26 < pardis> I don't
17:26 < pardis> specifically, this does not give a syntax error: echo 'pass in proto { udp tcp } flags any' | pfctl -nf-
17:26 < Bradipo> This gives me syntax error: echo 'pass in proto { udp tcp } flags S' | pfctl -nf-
17:27 < Bradipo> Ok, using any I don't get a syntax error.
17:27 < pardis> oh, whoops, I tested the wrong thing
17:28 < Bradipo> Interesting...
17:29 < Bradipo> Even this produces syntax error: echo 'pass in proto { tcp } flags S' | pfctl -nf-
17:29 < Bradipo> But this does not: echo 'pass in proto { tcp } flags S/SA' | pfctl -nf-
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17:30 < pardis> it looks like prior to Oct 2006, 'flags any' was the default and therefore there was no way to specify it in the syntax, so of course it worked with udp
17:30 < pardis> when that was changed, 'flags any' simply restored the old default behaviour, and was still udp-compatible
17:31 < pardis> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=116013438116256&w=2
17:31 < pardis> whether this is still desirable is a question for those with commit bits, not me
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17:33 < pardis> Bradipo: ah, 'flags S' is not valid according to pf.conf(5)
17:33 < pardis> the form is 'flags a/b'
17:33 < pardis> I copied it from your example rule without looking closely
17:33 < Bradipo> And I copied it from cvsweb. :-)
17:34 < Bradipo> Which claimed that it was valid syntax.
17:34 < pardis> maybe it was valid in 2002
17:34 < Bradipo> Right.
17:34 < pardis> I suppose if one were determined to find out, one could spin up an OpenBSD 3.2 VM
17:34 < Bradipo> This produces an interesting error, but not syntax: echo 'pass in proto { udp } flags S/S' | pfctl -nf-
17:35 < Bradipo> Maybe it's a special case of "syntax" error.
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18:09 < lus> Is there a live OpenBSD iso?
18:09 < uwharrie> lus: no
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18:11 < uwharrie> lus: there are some projects based on OpenBSD that attempt to provide one such as Fuguita, but nothing official
18:11 < pardis> it really depends on what you mean by "live"
18:11 < pardis> the standard OpenBSD installer is a minimal live rescue system
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18:12 < pardis> but you won't be able to use it in all the same ways you would a normal OpenBSD installation
18:13 < lus> It seems there is one - https://fuguita.org/
18:13 < pardis> that was already mentioned
18:15 < lus> pardis: sorry I did not see the post 
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18:22 < Bradipo> lus: You can just install OpenBSD to a USB thumbdrive and then it's "live".
18:22 < Bradipo> You can boot it on any system that supports booting from USB.
18:27 < pardis> well, and of the same architecture
18:30 < lus> Bradipo: cool
18:32 < lus> off to work to install on usb, see you later, thanks
18:33 < Bradipo> Right, don't choose i386.
18:33 < Bradipo> Unless you know you'll need it.
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18:41 < lus> Bradipo: I downloaded the amd64. Can I dd this to a usb and then install on the same?
18:41 < Bradipo> I've done it before, yes.
18:42 < Bradipo> I think I usually do this with minirootXX.img
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19:08 < pardis> only if you have a network interface that works in the installer
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19:14 < Bradipo> Yes, but I'm not sure how well using a larger image would work installing to the same media that contains the sets.
19:15 < lus> I couldn't get the wireless interface to work.
19:15 < Bradipo> So there is definitely a caveat emptor in this case. :-)
19:16 < Bradipo> For wireless you may have to put some firmware on the image before booting.
19:17 < lus> I installed OpenBSD some three times, all the times I couldn't get the sets from the disk, but I had to download over the network. This time I could not make the wireless interface work - I could not get the ap's list
19:17 < pardis> Bradipo: I mean that you can only install to the same disk at all if you have a working network interface
19:17 < pardis> having a larger image will indeed not help
19:18 < pardis> I suppose you could mount an mfs, copy the sets from the image to the mfs, then start the installer...
19:18 < Bradipo> Right.
19:18 < pardis> oh wait, but the install kernel doesn't have mfs
19:18 < pardis> lus: it sounds like you probably need firmware, as Bradipo mentioned
19:19 < pardis> you will need to copy that into /etc/firmware/ if you want the driver to pick it up
19:19 < Bradipo> Or 2 USB thumbdrives. :-)
19:19 < pardis> yes, or some free space on an internal disk
19:19 < Bradipo> One for installer (with complete sets) and one to which you install.
19:20 < lus> the wireless was found as iw0, but I it told me to put in the wpa password before the essid
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19:21 < pardis> there is no iw(4) driver, but all of the drivers starting with iw require firmware
19:22 < pardis> so you'll need to find out which of those it actually is and obtain the firmware from http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/ if you want to go this route
19:22 < lillian> hello, trying to have opensmtpd run a script when it receives an email but I can't figure what user the scripts run under
19:22 < lillian> I keep getting permissions issues (for things I try to do in the script) when I already gave the required permissions to smtpd user
19:23 < pardis> put 'id >/tmp/foo' into your script and see what it produces?
19:24 < Bradipo> You can have the script write out information to /tmp
19:24 < lillian> good idea, let's see
19:24 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/yak.txt
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19:25 < Bradipo> I see I'm not the only one still using `` 
19:27 < lillian> uid=103(smtpd) gid=104(smtpd) groups=104(smtpd)
19:27 < lillian> hm...
19:27 < lillian> there should be more groups there
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19:27 < Bradipo> Maybe, maybe not.
19:27 < Bradipo> I don't think there's a requirement to load secondary groups.
19:30 < lillian> that'd do it then. any way to have smtpd load secondary groups? or should I take a different approach?
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19:31 < Bradipo> Just for clarification... did you add the smtpd user to some groups that you wanted it to use and expect it to work?
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19:31 < lillian> yes
19:32 < lillian> is there some obvious thing I missed where it says that wouldn't work?
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19:46 < pardis> it's not generally expected for secondary groups to be considered without a normal login process
19:46 < pardis> a daemon that drops privileges will usually not bother with it
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19:46 < pardis> this doesn't look like it's running on OpenBSD
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19:47 < lus> I downloaded the FuguIta and I gunziped to 2147483648, when I did dd it said no space left on device!
19:48 < pardis> (I was going to suggest giving the smtpd user doas permissions to run your script as some other user, but whatever OS you're using may not have doas)
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19:48 < thrig> writing a file to /dev will often do that
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19:50 < lus> I'm from linux and it's frustrating not to use fdisk, what's the substitute?
19:50 < lus> please
19:51 < Bradipo> Well, OpenBSD does have fdisk, but it's purpose isn't necessarily to partition, but rather to allocate space for disklabel.
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19:54 < lus> Bradipo: I'm running OpenBSD on RPi and I have USB stick which I am trying to burn FuguIta
19:55 < lus> how do I list the storage disks 
19:55 < Bradipo> sysctl hw.disknames, or you can look through dmesg output.
19:55 < Bradipo> A lot of these may be answered by http://www.openbsd.org/faq/
19:56 < Bradipo> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html specifically.
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19:56 < lus> hw.disknames=sd0:a41c1a578684c14b,sd1:
19:59 < lus> I did 'dd if=FuguIta-7.4-amd64-202403191.img of=/dev/sd1 bs=1M
20:00 < lus> and it gave me no more space on device, but device is some 15G
20:01 < Bradipo> You filled up the disk, certainly.
20:01 < Bradipo> There is no device by the name of /dev/sd1
20:01 < Bradipo> But I'm sure you have a 15GB file there now.
20:01 < Bradipo> Or however big FuguIta-7.4-amd64-202403191.img is.
20:01 < thrig> delete it and try following openbsd documentation
20:04 < cat5> lus: e.g. if you've confirmed that sd1 is actually your USB drive (disklabel sd1) then you'd probably want to be writing to /dev/rsd1c
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20:05 < lus> cat5: ok started writing, it takes some time
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20:29 < Bradipo> Linux, I spit on you: mount: (hint) your fstab has been modified, but systemd still uses the old version; use 'systemctl daemon-reload' to reload.
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20:30 < thrig> at least it warned you, instead of wrapping the boot around a pole and leaving you with a backtrace from somewhere irrelevant?
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20:32 < Bradipo> Praise be.
20:33 < thrig> ... as happened with some early ubuntu/systemd where the user had fiddled with fstab
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21:00 < ssm_> my pf.conf is getting pretty complex and I'm looking for a way to test it
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21:47 < ssm_> my vps seems to not care about the contents of resolv.conf, even if it's totally empty, any ideas as to why?
21:47 < ssm_>  /etc/hosts is default
21:47 < ssm_> domains still resolve, but it always uses the same nameservers no matter what
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21:50 < Bradipo> So you're saying that if you run: dig x it shows a response from a nameserver that is not defined in /etc/resolv.conf ?
21:50 < Bradipo> e.g. when I run dig, it shows me:
21:50 < Bradipo> ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
21:50 < Bradipo> What SERVER does dig show on your vps?
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21:51 < Bradipo> ssm_: ?
21:51 < ssm_> Bradipo: same thing as yours
21:51 < Bradipo> And what are the contents of /etc/resolv.conf ?
21:52 < ssm_> nameserver 127.0.0.1, though I don't have unbound running at the moment
21:52 < ssm_> let me try changing it
21:53 < ssm_> okay it does change
21:53 < ssm_> I'm still leaking to 188.93.173.251 when I run this script though https://raw.githubusercontent.com/macvk/dnsleaktest/master/dnsleaktest.sh
21:54 < Bradipo> What does "leaking to 188.93.173.251" mean?
21:54 < ssm_> dns is being resolved by a server I did not configure
21:54 < ssm_> no matter what I configure it resolves dns on that server
21:55 < Bradipo> So you see 188.93.173.251 in the dig output as a "SERVER:" ?
21:55 < quinq> Yes, that script leaks your data to bash.ws
21:55 < dostoyevsky2> hmmm... my automated openbsd install fails because  ftp.eu.openbsd.org seems to be down
21:55 < ssm_> Bradipo: no
21:56 < Bradipo> What exactly are you claiming then?
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21:59 < ssm_> wish I knew
21:59 < Bradipo> Why do you care about what this script does? :-)
22:00 < ssm_> what the heck are sites like dnsleaktest.com reporting then if not dns leaks
22:00 < Bradipo> Well, for one, can you define what "dns leaks" means?
22:00 < ssm_> sure can't, I'm a noob
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22:00 < thrig> it could be more a radish or turnip than leek
22:00 < cat5> heh
22:01 < uwharrie> "If you use the same ASN for DNS and connection - you have no leak, otherwise here might be a problem."
22:01 < dostoyevsky2> Bradipo: when you request a dns entry and the dns replies... so leaky
22:02 < uwharrie> never seen DNS leak described that way
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22:03 < Bradipo> That's an interesting definition for "leak DNS".
22:03 < Bradipo> Both are that is.
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22:04 < dostoyevsky2> web servers are even leakier
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22:07 < Bradipo> ssm_: Basically, they are claiming that if your DNS queries leave your network, it leaked.
22:08 < Bradipo> DNS was designed this way.
22:08 < Bradipo> You make a DNS query, if the name cannot be resolved locally, it has to "leave" your network.
22:08 < Bradipo> At the point that it leaves your network, any passive observer who has the ability to monitor the traffic from your network can see it.  So that's a "leak".
22:09 < Bradipo> Is it any surprise that your ISP can see what DNS queries you make?
22:09 < Bradipo> Is it any surprise that between ISPs the DNS queries can be observed by those with "power" to do so?
22:09 < Bradipo> dnsleaktest.com is a privacy advocacy website.
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22:10 < Bradipo> Using a proxy just changes who can observe the DNS queries, it doesn't change the fact that unless you're using DNSCurve you won't really have any DNS privacy.  And even then, there is analysis that can be done on encrypted/private DNS.
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22:12 < ssm_> I'm trying to send my dns queries to quad9, but these sites say I'm sending them to john ISP instead
22:13 < ssm_> when just running unwind locally it doesn't do this, but when I'm connect with iked to my vps it does
22:13 < Bradipo> Well, that's easily proven false...
22:13 < Bradipo> If you send your query to quad9, do you know what they do with the DNS query?
22:13 < Bradipo> At any rate, you can easily see where your system is sending the intial query by using tcpdump.
22:14 < ssm_> I would hope they comply with swedish law like they say they do and just give you the ip and delete your dens request afterwards
22:14 < ssm_> s/dens/dns/
22:14 < uwharrie> that assumes the query is reaching them
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22:15 < Bradipo> And it also assumes that they don't have to recurse to find the answer to the query, thus sending the DNS query to other servers.  This is how DNS is designed to work.
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22:18 < Bradipo> ssm_: At any rate, if you don't want DNS queries leaving your OpenBSD system, configure pf.conf to block all outbound traffic except to those IPs that you deem trustworthy.
22:19 < thrig> blocking all outgoing traffic is good for security
22:19 < Bradipo> Then use a VPN (or other tunneling tools) to get DNS queries out of OpenBSD.
22:20 < ssm_> I'll do my best
22:20 < ssm_> appreciate the advice
22:26 < sibiria> ssm_: "john isp" is quad9's network
22:27 < Bradipo> "Quad9 blocks lookups of malicious host names from an up-to-the-minute list of threats."  Censorship?
22:28 < sibiria> no. bad actor protection, similar to what you can opt in for with dns0 and opendns
22:28 < sibiria> blocks resolution for known botnet hostnames and similar
22:32 < ssm_> sibiria: dang I haven't considered that actually, you're probably right
22:33  * ssm_ is convinced he will get good at networking if he pages through pf.conf(5) enough times
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22:34 < thrig> Stevens also wrote a book or two
22:36 < ssm_> will take recommendations
22:37 < ssm_> I figure a good book is better than flailing my arms around like an idiot trying to decipher netadmin speak
22:37 < sibiria> just run unbound on your openbsd box, and set your computers to use the openbsd box for name resolutions
22:37 < sibiria> i wouldn't recommend blocking outbound traffic to port 53 because some applications, "for security", want to do their own name resolutions. some of those may croak if they can't
22:38 < sibiria> then drop a few open resolvers in the rotation of unbound
22:38 < sibiria> for dns-over-tls
22:38 < ssm_> yeah I have unwind running locally, I just saw a different dns server when connecting to my vpn with iked so I assumed misconfiguration when it could just be a different quad9 server
22:39 < sibiria> one of quad9's networks is PCH, run by bill woodcock. sometimes people see PCH/WoodyNet show up when they use various "DNS test" services on the web, and freak out
22:39 < ssm_> unwind config is just `block list "/var/db/unwind_blocklist"\nforwarder { 9.9.9.9 port 853 DoT 149.112.112.112 port 853 DoT }\npreference { DOT }`
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22:40 < ssm_> bill woodcock is an awesome name
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22:42 < visl> cccccctrkugklhfgkehlfjgutktuclikdtnueehtdigg
22:42 < visl> oops.  have a otp
22:42 < sibiria> ty
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 20 00:00:09 2024