--- Log opened Sat Mar 23 00:00:13 2024
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01:39 < SOLARIS_s> hmmm
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12:53 < nij-> Does this indicate very slow disk IO? https://bpa.st/P4QA
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12:58 < sibiria> yes that's a bit slow. but it's not the reason your boot procedure takes 1 minute
12:59 < sibiria> see what happens if you set the block size to 1m
12:59 < sibiria> (and adjust count so that you get a few hundreds of mb in total)
13:01 < nij-> Here it is.. https://bpa.st/PZ3A
13:01 < nij-> Hmm.. not why? I thought yesterday that was suggested.. 
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13:02 < sibiria> that's 1024 bytes
13:03 < sibiria> 1m = 1 megabyte
13:03 < sibiria> literally, bs=1m
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13:03 < nij-> oops.. thx https://bpa.st/4VJA
13:04 < sibiria> 100 mb/s is relatively slow, but this is openbsd. its disk i/o isn't blazing
13:04 < sibiria> if you're running full-disk encryption that incurs a notable performance hit, too
13:05 < nij-> No, I didn't choose to fully encrypt the virtual disk during installation of openbsd vm.
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13:06 < sibiria> as a perhaps useless reference, i get 150 mb/s on NVMe storage, with full-disk encryption. on real hardware
13:06 < sibiria> re: openbsd's disk i/o *is* slow
13:07 < nij-> Could that be why booting is so slow..?
13:07 < nij-> possibly*
13:07 < sibiria> no
13:07 < avemestr> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169415300421797&w=2 < a good read (actually, the entire thread is) about disk performance. Only thing no longer applying is that OpenBSD has dropped softdep.
13:07 < sibiria> not really sure what's stalling your boot process
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13:08 < sibiria> you could try moving away from cqow2 format for the virtual disk, to something fully pre-allocated and non-compressed
13:09 < sibiria> e.g. raw
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13:10 < sibiria> qcow2 does a few "tricks" to stay compact, which comes with a performance hit. it's oriented towards being size efficient
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13:10 < sibiria> you can use qemu-img to convert your qcow2 image to raw. no need to redo the installation
13:10 < nij-> lemme find out and try
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13:14 < nij-> Wow.. from 1.65G to 10G.. 
13:14 < sibiria> because 10G is your actual storage size
13:15 < sibiria> one of qcow2's tricks is to not allocate blocks until needed. it's space-efficient only in the intermittent sense, but always has a performance hit
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13:15 < nij-> sibiria Yay! It's faster, but it still takes 45 seconds :/
13:16 < sibiria> another problem with openbsd's boot time is the storage probing
13:16 < nij-> I converted with `qemu-img convert -f qcow2 -O raw ./openbsd-disk.img ./openbsd-disk.raw`
13:16 < sibiria> it extends by some 5 seconds for every attached device
13:16 < sibiria> no way around this
13:17 < sibiria> so if you've got 3 drives connected, kernel is gonna sit there for 15 seconds on some do-gooder procedure before it moves on
13:17 < sibiria> if i were you i'd just accept it and get on with getting network connectivity working and updating the system
13:18 < nij-> I only have 2 drives connecting ... edk2..code.fd and disk.raw.
13:18 < nij-> Hmmm slow booting time doesn't mean that later it would be slow?
13:19 < sibiria> on the whole openbsd performs slower than anything linux. it's just how it is. it's gradually getting snappier but it still can't really compete
13:19 < sibiria> if executional/disk/network performance is your goal, openbsd isn't for you
13:20 < nij-> Nope, it's not my goal. I was just wondering if getting stuck here means getting stuck later. Lemme progress as you suggested.
13:22 < pardis> it was gradually getting snappier and then took a step back when softdep was tedu'd
13:22 < sibiria> i always ran without softdep myself. i prefer consistency
13:22 < pardis> I, too, prefer consistency and ran with softdep
13:23 < pardis> never had a problem, although I know some others have in rare cases
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13:23 < pardis> things like git and firefox are unusably slow for me without softdep
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13:24 < sibiria> if you have a multi-write-intensive scenario, softdep really helped
13:24 < phy1729> Have you seen the dependency graphs in the softdep paper?
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13:24 < Sober> Should I upgrade one version at a time if I'm going from 7.0 to latest stable?
13:24 < penne> are there downsides for softdep?
13:24 < sibiria> if you crash you will almost always have unlinked debris, and now and then lost data
13:24 < pardis> you must upgrade one version at a time, version skips are unavoidable
13:25 < pardis> er, unsupported*
13:25 < sibiria> penne: ^ this
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13:25 < penne> ooh
13:25 < penne> thx
13:25 < Sober> pardis: fair enough
13:25 < pardis> phy1729: I don't think so, but I know the code is complex
13:25 < penne> sounds good. backups are important anyway
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13:25 < sibiria> so you'll have a lot of stuff in lost+found everywhere. mostly it's deleted files that softdep didn't get around to fully discard
13:25 < pardis> I'm not saying removing it wasn't the right call, just that claiming OpenBSD is getting snappier when softdep was just removed is not really accurate
13:25 < sibiria> and every now and then, you'll lose an actual live file
13:26 < penne> hmm
13:26 < penne> is there a way to check for that
13:26 < pardis> penne: well, the other downside is that it is no longer in OpenBSD
13:26 < sibiria> yes, look in lost+found
13:26 < pardis> if you want softdep you must run 7.3
13:26 < penne> pardis lmao xD
13:26 < phy1729> The insanity starts on page 9 or so https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/usenix99/full_papers/mckusick/mckusick.pdf
13:26 < penne> sibiria: alr
13:26 < sibiria> during the years i used softdep, i ran it only on file systems that 1) were really write-busy and benefited, AND 2) had data that i could potentially suffer a loss at
13:27 < phy1729> It's terribly clever, but I'd rather boring fs code than clever.
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13:27 < pardis> sure, from a code point of view softdep is horrible
13:27 < pardis> but from a user point of view it makes certain things run much, much faster
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13:27 < nij-> lo0, enc0, pflog0 are the only three interfaces showing up in `ifconfig`.
13:27 < nij-> Does that mean the vritual internet device isn't well deteched?
13:27 < sibiria> disable browser disk-cache and use in-RAM cache, then it'll be nice again :p
13:27 < nij-> (the line was  -device virtio-net-device,netdev=net -netdev user,id=net \)
13:27 < sibiria> browser disk-cache is rubbish from the past
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13:28 < pardis> I'd rather use mfs for cache if I were to do something like that, but I just no longer run OpenBSD on my laptop now
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13:28 < pardis> it's fine on servers
13:28 < pardis> (the advantage of mfs is that if firefox crashes the cache isn't lost)
13:29 < sibiria> nij-: check your dmesg:    dmesg | grep ^vio
13:29 < sibiria> do you have vioN there? if so, you have a network interface. that's a start
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13:29 < pardis> and changing cache settings helps with firefox, but not with git
13:31 < nij-> sibiria output: `vioblk0 at virtio0`
13:32 < sibiria> that's storage, so no it doesn't look like the network interface came along
13:32 < sibiria> what's your "netdev" line again?
13:32 < sibiria> for qemu
13:33 < nij-> `-device virtio-net-device,netdev=net -netdev user,id=net \` 
13:33 < sibiria> try changing to virtio-net-pci
13:33 < nij-> I tried changing this line to UTM's method `-device virtio-net-pci,mac=C2:35:4F:74:10:D3,netdev=net0 -netdev vmnet-shared,id=net0`  but it didn't work either.
13:34 < sibiria> try that again
13:34 < nij-> sibiria you mean `-device virtio-net-pci`?
13:34 < sibiria> try the UTM snippet
13:34 < nij-> oh ok
13:34 < sibiria> you'll need to configure the network interface either way, so see if that snippet at least throws a "vioN" interface in the mid
13:35 < nij-> Sure. Booting .. (one thing though.. I'm asked to use sudo with qemu with that snippet.)
13:36 < nij-> (Well, more accurately speaking, there's a privilege issue so I used sudo to push it through.)
13:36 < sibiria> i suppose it's because qemu wants to create a virtual interface on the host side, too, instead of doing SLIRP or whatever it's called
13:36 < nij-> (Still booting ^^)
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13:39 < nij-> It's much slower this time.. 
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13:39 < nij-> But I can see these already - virtio0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Qumranet Virtio Network" rev 0x00 \\ vio0 at virtio0: address c2:35:4f:74:10:d3 \\ virtio0: msix per-VQ
13:40 < nij-> Wow.. it's still booting..
13:41 < sibiria> ok so now you have a network interface at least
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13:42 < sibiria> try dhcp on it, see what happens
13:42 < sibiria> echo dhcp > /etc/hostname.vio0
13:42 < sibiria> sh /etc/netstart vio0
13:42 < sibiria> ifconfig
13:42 < nij-> Ok.. I will try after it boots. It's still booting.
13:42 < nij-> After 7 minute :O
13:43 < sibiria> what part is it stuck on?
13:43 < nij-> Maybe this slowness is because this is the first time it really booted?
13:43 < nij-> reordering on each term takes a while.
13:43 < nij-> Now it's "starting network daemons"
13:44 < nij-> Booted! `ifconfig` gives vio0. :)
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13:45 < nij-> I haven't used `dhcp` but `ifconfig` already has vio0. Do I have to do what you gave?
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13:48 < avemestr> cat /etc/hostname.vio0
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13:56 < nij-> `ping google.com` works!
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13:58 < sibiria> syspatch; fw_update
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13:59 < nij-> Sorry.. I hit C-c to halt `ping google.com` but that just kills the VM. Have to reboot again :\
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14:00 < avemestr> Is this some kind of exercise in futility?
14:01 < nij-> ?
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14:01 < sibiria> qemu's serial console is a bit annoying. recommend you just ssh into the machine instead
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14:05 < nij-> syspatch: cannot apply patches while reorder_kernel is running // fw_update: add none; update none
14:06 < sibiria> just wait a minute and kernel reordering is done
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14:13 < nij-> sibiria both are done :)
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14:29 < sibiria> great
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14:34 < avemestr> nij-: It's just that you've decided to try OpenBSD for the first time on an Apple M2. On MacOS. Using qemu. Using the miniroot image. It is as if you couldn't have selected a more difficult path every step of the way.
14:34 < avemestr> But great if you get it working!
14:35 < sibiria> definitely something to be said for qemu. for the OS and the computer, not really. eventually oracle will get arm/arm64 going for virtualbox which is a lot easier to work with than qemu
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14:36 < sibiria> iirc it's currently being previewed
14:37 < avemestr> Any 1+ year old amd64 device - even from some bargain bin - would have provided a smoother experience.
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14:38 < sibiria> virtualbox will run on arm macs, too, in rosetta. performance is alright
14:39 < sibiria> if you for some reason don't necessarily need arm64 guests
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14:51 < nij-> Hmm I see. I didn't know how difficult this is.
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15:02 < sibiria> virtualbox really makes it a lot easier
15:02 < sibiria> mostly click'n'play
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15:24 < kroovy> can I somehow *log* the key-exchange-method for a openssh-login? I tried LogLevel DEBUG3, but the info do not satisfy my. (Context: I wanna make sure NTRU Prime + x25519 key exchange is used)
15:24 < kroovy> s/my/me/
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15:26  * sibiria disables everything but ed25519
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15:32 < kroovy> sibiria: i'm making up my mind about the first paragraph under "new features" here https://www.openssh.com/txt/release-9.0
15:32 < kroovy> i wonder if disabling everything but ed25519 is sufficient
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15:58 < sibiria> kroovy: you can tune kex and ciphers, too
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16:24 < GnarledHorn> Hello channel. I'm trying to build an example of fork-exec that uses imsg (man 3 imsg_init) to communicate. I'm having some problems with the ... nevermind, I just needed to include the sys/queue.h header before the imsg.h header (as clearly stated in the man page)
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16:26 < thrig> https://github.com/rjc/newd https://github.com/rjc/newdctl might have codes
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16:47 < Posterdati> hi
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16:48 < avemestr> kroovy: Interesting prospect. Though not wholly unrealistic even for commoners.
16:48 < avemestr> *Though=And
16:51 < kroovy> sibiria: avemestr: I think I'll try disabling every cipher but ed25519 and diesable every kex but sntrup761x25519-sha512@openssh.com
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16:52 < thrig> fine with other openbsd systems, not so good if libssh or older clients are involved
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16:52 < lts> If you happen to have Debian 11 boxes or similar old machines, don't try to restart their sshd with sntrup761x25519-sha512@openssh.com in sshd_config. Guess how I just found out I still have a couple Debian 11s running :-)
16:53 < lts> Slightly offtopic but might save someone reading this from extra trouble
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17:03 < kroovy> lts: oh damn, what's the sshd version on that?
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17:04 < lts> kroovy: 8.4p1-5+deb11u3
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17:12 < kroovy> lts: i see :D you can also list all available kex-algorithms by running `ssh -Q kex`
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17:16 < vortexx> sibiria: echo 'inet autoconf' >/etc/hostname.vio0 is the current syntax...
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17:21 < sibiria> yes
17:22 < sibiria> "dhcp" is an alias these days
17:23 < kroovy> lts: sorry you wanna do `sshd -T | grep kex` to get the currently activated key-exchange algorithms (`ssh -Q kex` is for the client)
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17:24 < sibiria> they are in the man page as well
17:24 < lts> No worries, I had a secondary method of accessing those Debian 11s, and I just reverted the config for them
17:24 < lts> Turns out my ssh ansible playbook did not have a "validate" section :-)
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17:41 < blaub> kinda scared if openbsd still gets enough developers, don't know i there are any statistics
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17:44 < thrig> if only email addresses were recorded in CVS
17:44 < blaub> :)
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18:49 < avemestr> Another concerned user calmed.
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20:41 < riceandbeans> opensmtpd question because I'm too stupid to know how to phrase what I need to look for
20:42 < riceandbeans> I have a mail server running opensmtpd and friends, works great, I have another system I want to send mail through that server to go outbound, such that local sendmail is able to do an smtp auth to said mail server for outbound
20:42 < riceandbeans> So the first server ends up as the mx
20:42 < riceandbeans> I want cron jobs to get mail off the box is the gisct
20:42 < riceandbeans> gist
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23:04 -!- lac [~lac@37.19.199.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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23:39 -!- lac [~lac@37.19.199.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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23:45 -!- tercaL_ is now known as tercaL
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 24 00:00:14 2024