--- Log opened Fri Mar 29 00:00:19 2024
--- Day changed Fri Mar 29 2024
00:00 < cat5> interesting. I just switched my desktop over to xfce after using i3 for a long time
00:01 < sibiria> echo kern.maxfiles=9001 >> /etc/sysctl.conf
00:02 < cat5> that's over 9000!
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00:05 < Bradipo> cat5: Well, from what I can tell, it seems to open the same file over and over, hundreds of times.
00:05 < Bradipo> As observed from fstat.
00:05 < Bradipo> I never had this problem in 7.3, only 7.4.
00:05 < cat5> Bradipo: was there a specific program you were using to open the file?
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00:06 < Bradipo> It seems that many of the xfce daemons open the same file many times and easily max out the kern.maxfiles.
00:06 < Bradipo> thunar, the xfsettings thing, etc.
00:06 < Bradipo> All of them seem to do it.
00:06 < thrig> there might be a bug where someone forgot to call fclose or similar
00:06 < Bradipo> Some less than others.
00:07 < sibiria> that's unfortunate. though a single file descriptor, or a thousand of them, incur no noticable penalty. it's OK to double-up on that if it suffices as a solution
00:07 < cat5> i haven't noticed any bugs with xfce. I actually switched over because I started experiencing a bug while using i3, and thought it might be related to i3
00:07 < Bradipo> Well, it's entirely possible it's a local phenomenon.
00:07 < Bradipo> Maybe there's some kind of data in my filesystem that makes it go nuts.
00:08 < sibiria> or some do-gooder linux-ism, giving free fclose through some mechanism to slurp up data or something
00:08 < thrig> ktrace might give some clues
00:08 < cat5> my sysctl.conf https://termbin.com/q4gw ... I wonder how sane these settings are
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02:41 < Den4ikRus> I decided to ditch MATE completely and just run solo cwm
02:41 < Den4ikRus> cwm is so good my favorite one of x11 wms
02:41 < Den4ikRus> coz I am not into tiling 
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03:17 < lus> sysctl hw.disknames is giving me 'hw.disknames=sd0:a41c1a578684c14b,sd1:', sd1 is a 'sd1 at scsibus3 targ 1 lun 0: <Seagate, Expansion, 060E>' - usb harddisk.
03:18 < lus> how do I get the DUID of the disk?
03:20 < dlg> dlg@apathy ~$ sudo disklabel sd0 | grep duid
03:20 < dlg> duid: 1189507bd2fd8d63
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03:24 < lus> duid: 0000000000000000
03:24 < lus> this is an NTFS disk, I think
03:25 < dlg> duid is stored as part of the openbsd disklabel
03:25 < dlg> if you just have an mbr/gpt with an ntfs partition in it, you dont have an openbsd disklabel
03:25 < dlg> so you want have a duid
03:27 < lus> ok, it's an NTFS partition, it's working ok on windows.
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10:32 < lus> Hello, Running OpenBSD on RPi3. Change /etc/fstab to mount a usb stick on startup, and on reboot the nic is not configured and I am droped in read only mode, thus I cannot change the fstab file, any help please?
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11:36 < deltahotel> hello, would like to install offline obsd , but don't see my usb stick is not detected
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12:09 < remiliascarlet> First thing first, how did you flash your USB?
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14:00 < cat5> dlg: you tricked my into thinking I was in the wrong channel with that sudo business
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14:14 < oldlaptop> (sudo is maintained by an openbsd developer and was in openbsd for many years)
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14:31 < sibiria> doas doas doas sudo su -l
14:32 < sibiria> xxx-tra forceful
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15:17 < dostoyevsky2> https://www.aldeid.com/wiki/UPX <- upx, executable packer, lists OpenBSD as a supported os... I just wonder how that can work on OpenBSD... I guess you'd need to give the executable similar permissions like you would give to a jit
15:17 < cat5> I think I've been on openbsd since 6.3 but don't remember ever seeing it
15:17 < cat5> (sudo)
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15:18 < thrig> HISTORY  The doas command first appeared in OpenBSD 5.8.
15:18 < thrig> one might, therefore, expect that sudo got the boot around then
15:19 < cat5> sounds about right
15:19 < oldlaptop> after being openbsd for, what, a good two decades or so?
15:19 < oldlaptop> *being in openbsd
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15:20 < cat5> maybe it was 6.2 i came in. i don't remember now
15:20 < cat5> i have a couple t-shirts i should check them for reference
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15:25 < jmcunx> from `man doas` :  The doas command first appeared in OpenBSD 5.8
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15:31 < jmcunx> and looks like sudo removed in 5.8 too: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade58.html
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15:39 < IcePic> dostoyevsky2: another option is to do like gzexe and just unpack into tmp (or somewhere like tmp without noexec flags) and re-exec it from there.
15:44 < dostoyevsky2> IcePic: Ah, I didn't actually know about gzexe... nice shell script... thanks for mentioning!
15:45 < miah> theres also shar
15:46 < miah> kinda similar, and weird
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16:14 < IcePic> miah / dostoyevsky2: it (gzexe) follows the same principles as zless, zgrep and so on. unpack to $TMPDIR and run "real" command from there
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16:18 < miah> ya, thats neat and weird
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17:12 < lts> xz compromised. Looks like openbsd was not hit, our xz port is 5.4.5 https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2024/03/29/4
17:17 < thrig> also the vuln uses gnu shell code that should fail on openbsd
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17:18 < sibiria> whoa.
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17:19 < IcePic> thrig: I'm sure porters can patch it so it runs /usr/local/bin/bash instead of /bin/sh so it works!
17:20 < thrig> hopefully not, as I tend not to install ports that require bash
17:22 < byteskeptical> i never like images anyway
17:22 < byteskeptical> s/like/liked/
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17:26 < miah> the fallout from this one should be fun
17:27 < Bradipo> I make it a point not to install bash.  Honestly, why would any port need bash as a dependency?
17:27 < thrig> because someone was too lazy to undo all the wacky bashisms
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17:29 < miah> making scripts portable can be a pita
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17:29 < miah> especially once you get into bsd/linux'isms
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17:40 < Bradipo> I see.  I suppose if some port has a run-time script that calls #!/usr/local/bin/bash that would introduce a challenging dependency.
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17:47 < dkeav> does the xz backdoor only work on glibc systems?
17:47 < thrig> I saw a head +c in the exploit code, which is a gnuism
17:48 < dkeav> wheww
17:48 < thrig> (unless you parked a GNU in the front of your PATH)
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17:50 < lts> He has been part of the xz project for 2 years, adding all sorts of binary test files, and to be honest with this level of sophistication I would be suspicious of even older versions of xz until proven otherwise. 
17:51 < lts> ^ from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39865810
17:51 < thrig> openssl also got a review, so why not other things, too?
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17:51 < uwharrie> looks like the account has also injected unsafe code into libarchive
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17:52 < brynet> it's okay, there was plenty of that in there already.
17:53 < thrig> really_safe_fprintf
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17:58 < brynet> libarchive/bsdtar is really bad, and impossible to sandbox, unlike most other archivers/decompressors in ports, even unrar and p7zip.
18:00 < brynet> but at least it supports compiling with borland c
18:00 < ssm_> I like bsdtar for convenience reasons
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18:00 < ssm_> specifically so I don't need to remember how to use 7zip and unzip
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18:03 < brynet> yeah supporting every conceivable archive format is real convenient, but it's also great attack surface.
18:05 < brynet> p7zip and unzip use pledge(2)
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18:47 < eea> thanks #openbsd! https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2024/03/29/4 has so many linux folks wetting themselves
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18:48 < dkeav> i don't see how any project that has xz past 5.4.0 feels fine about it
18:49 < lts> All my openbsd boxes have xz 5.4.4 installed as dependencies :-|
18:50 < dkeav> yea and the bad actor was involved in most of the releases since 5.4.0 right
18:50 < dkeav> not great
18:51 < dkeav> their target definitely appears to be linux/gnu systems, so that helps for us, but still
18:52 < eea> i have several php/python packages dependant on xz, but openssh isn't one of them :)
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19:01 < oldlaptop> dkeav: in this particular instance, *only* .deb/.rpm package builds, apparently
19:01 < oldlaptop> but, again, still
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19:06 < dkeav> yup
19:06  * oldlaptop would also observe that, unfortunately, there isn't all that much inherent to openbsd that would mitigate stuff like that in ports
19:06 < dkeav> wonder if this person has been active in any other OSS projects
19:06 < lts> Sure https://github.com/google/oss-fuzz/pull/10667
19:07 < oldlaptop> interestingly the backdoor's author/committer does seem to have had trouble with stack-layout stuff, perhaps developing this sort of thing for openbsd would have been harder for those sorts of reasons
19:07 < dkeav> xz-java project too
19:08 < dkeav> hmm
19:08 < thrig> besides someone actually looking at the proposed port in detail
19:09 < oldlaptop> that's something (say) Debian maintainers are supposed to do too - of course there's that thing about "supposed to do"
19:09 < dkeav> shoulda, woulda, coulda
19:10 < oldlaptop> there are of course rather fewer openbsd committers than Debian developers or the equivalents for other big linuxes, that has advantages
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19:24 < cat5> am i a weird guy for not having bash installed?
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19:25 < thrig> I didn't like bash, and then shellshock happened
19:25 < caze> ksh: bash: not found
19:25 < lts> "I don't want to read too much into it, but the person (supposedly) submitting the PR seems to work at 1Password since December last year, as per his Linkedin. (And his Linkedin page has a link to the Github profile that made the PR)."
19:26 < cat5> ssm_: no need to remember with a funciton like so https://termbin.com/sfva
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19:27 < lts> Ah, ignore that - it was about another PR (oddly related though) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39866611
19:27 < thrig> -- "$1" would be less problematic than those $1 (unless zsh)
19:28 < cat5> ah yeah good call, i copied this from stack overflow like a decade ago
19:28 < thrig> $1 in POSIX sh actually being something like glob(split($1)) surprise!!
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19:29 < thrig> also that echo probably should go to stderr and -f "$1"
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19:34 < oldlaptop> lts: tangentially, from that same thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39866551
19:34 < oldlaptop> So responsible. Very disclosure.
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19:36 < thrig> openbsd has gotten in trouble for blabbing about things early
19:38 < tommyrot> be glad one sane person leaked it before embargo so things are back to normal by the end of the week, instead of a select circle of people in the know actively exploiting it for the coming 6 months
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19:38 < tommyrot> on the other hand, this whole thing is OT right?
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19:39 < uwharrie> well a lot of the headlines are implicating openssh, so not completely
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19:41  * oldlaptop thinks the bearing on openbsd's position on vulnerability disclosure is relevant
19:41 < lts> Plus the same actor has been involved in xz version(s) in openbsd ports
19:41 < oldlaptop> you know, how 'irresponsible' openbsd is
19:41 < lts> I mean, not directly in the ports ports, but in the version in ports
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19:52 < ssm_> this whole thing makes me wonder, how often do bad actors send malicious diffs to tech@?
19:55 < uwharrie> never?
19:55 < oldlaptop> For something exactly like this xz backdoor, approximately zero; the backdoor itself is hidden in binary blobs ("test files")
19:56 < oldlaptop> and it's only hooked up to the build (as I understand) in release tarballs, not in version control
19:57 < oldlaptop> it'd be a fair bit harder to hide sneaky things in plain (text) sight in a diff
19:58 < thrig> of course someone has to actually look at the diff and understand it
20:01 < eea> not it!
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21:05 < avemestr> So there's some xz/liblzma stuff going on. I see mostly Debian ans systemd mentioned along with OpenSSH... some systems patch OpenSSH sshd, which pulls in libsystemd, which pulls in affected lib..
21:06 < avemestr> i gather OpenBSD is not affacted? But presune some packages depending on xz might be..?
21:06 < lts> Based on all evidence so far, not affected
21:07 < lts> Including other ports/packages
21:07 < avemestr> Nice!
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21:13  * thrig deletes some old lzma code from the "man(1) on Mac OS X is horribly slow" days
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21:35 < weezelding> =D
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21:40 < ublx> i read the suggestion it was probably targeting debian, and was uncovered in relation to debian sid (and has been attached in the mind to debian for that reason), but that it is upstream of anything debian has done; the seeming culprit has xz commits going back 2 years. could take some unravelling
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21:55 < clemens3> and behind the hood he was helping the main maintainer before he officially took over
21:56 < clemens3> https://www.mail-archive.com/xz-devel@tukaani.org/msg00571.html
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21:57 < clemens3> As I have hinted in earlier emails, Jia Tan may have a bigger role in
21:57 < clemens3> the project in the future. He has been helping a lot off-list and is
21:57 < clemens3> practically a co-maintainer already. :-)
21:57 < clemens3> in quotes
21:57 < clemens3> 2022-06-29
21:57 < clemens3> contributed to llvm and zstd too
21:58 < clemens3> as i understand, the backdoor would only activate on debian and redhat
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21:59 < clemens3> but who knows what had been done before
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22:26 < ssm_> gimp, mpv, claws-mail all depend on libarchive, so I'm not getting rid of it any time soon unfortunately
22:26 < ssm_> might as well use it if getting rid of it isn't an option
22:28 < thrig> and cmake!
22:29 < thrig> "let them eat cmake", etc
22:31 < dlg> cat5: i have annoying muscle memory
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22:41 < ssm_> okay you know why this shit is going to be related to openbsd, some idiot is going to say there's a back door in libssh because systemd links liblzma to ssh and say openbsd has had a security flaw in a heck of a long time
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22:45 < thrig> there were many people on #zsh claiming exploit after shellshock, etc
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22:56 < vortexx> on OpenBSD python and isc bind depend on xz, amongst others
22:56 < vortexx> as does php
22:56 < vortexx> this is going to be an interesting can of worms
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23:20 < aaronm04> So the author his the exploit in a binary test file. Would it not have been possible to use this attack vector if tests weren't run when building a package?
23:20 < aaronm04> Hid*
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23:29 < fro> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=171174950828153&w=2
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 30 00:00:23 2024