--- Log opened Sat Apr 13 00:00:42 2024
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00:29 < dfdx> how do you install go? $ pkg_info -Q go   doesn't show anything relevant.
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00:32 < phy1729> pkg_info go
00:34 < dfdx> weird... that works. 
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00:39 < uwharrie> -Q only checks the first repo which is the security updates on a release. use -Qa to search both updates and release packages
00:43 < dfdx> yeah but the output of -Qa is ridiculous.
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00:46 < oldlaptop> you probably want -aQ, not -Qa
00:47 < uwharrie> :|
00:48 < oldlaptop> (pkg_foo are sometimes a bit funny about option parsing)
00:49 < oldlaptop> in this instance it makes sense that an option that takes an argument should have its argument immediately after it, not another option (but the actual behavior of -Qa is a mystery to me)
00:50 < dfdx> ahhh... 
00:50 < dfdx> thanks oldlaptop.
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01:19 < ssm_> -Qa would find all packages with 'a' in the pkgname I believe
01:20 < thrig> vowels cost extra?
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01:32 < oldlaptop> ssm_: that seems to be... /part/ of the puzzle
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02:01 < a1fa> RTSLN
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02:06 < a1fa> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SfU56IDsb4
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06:18 < lts> AFAIK (some) Go packages still suffer from syscall removal and get the "function not implemented" errors
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06:19 < lts> Well, 7.4 is still supported for 5+ months
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06:25 < xx> out of curiosity, why does openbsd not use the additional double dash --options for the included tools like ls and others?
06:25 < xx> is it for histerical raisins?
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06:30 < CosmicDJ> xx: long command line options are/were a glibc/linux thing, see e.g. https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html how POSIX specifies the argument syntax
06:34 < xx> I see, so --options are non-posix and that's why openbsd avoids implementing them?
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06:47 < CosmicDJ> xx: --options are GNU-only that's why OpenBSD is not using them
06:48 < xx> I mean, it's not like GNU holds copyright on using --options
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07:56 < avemestr> xx: If it's any consolation, I recall a somewhat recent thread on a mailing list about some slight inconsistencies in regards to the usage of dashes for arguments. Can't find it now, though.
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08:56 < pardis> xx: why *should* OpenBSD use them?
08:56 < pardis> "why doesn't OpenBSD do X?" is a malformed question
08:57 < pardis> it's not like the developers gather around a table to discuss what things not to implement for a laugh
09:05 < xx> I'm not saying openbsd should, I was only wondering why it doesn't
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09:07 < xx> the reasons why it doesn't could be any of 1) openbsd didn't know -- is possible 2) too complicated to implement it now 3) no time to implement it 4) would break something 5) want posix adherence 6) hate linux/gnu
09:07 < xx> or anything else
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09:08 < xx> please don't view it as an attack on openbsd
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09:09 < avemestr> The number of things not implemented in any and all OSes is infinite.
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09:11 < avemestr> One would not be able to enumerate all things not implemented in Windows, Linux, MacOS, OpenBSD, Solaris, etc... So the approach is obviously flawed.
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09:21 < xx> that's not really related to my question
09:21 < xx> "Why don't cars have 5 wheels?" "The number of things not implemented in all cars is infinite"
09:23 < avemestr> Vehicles with more than 4 wheels exists in case you don't know.
09:23 < xx> systems with --options exist too
09:24 < xx> still not an answer to the question
09:24 < avemestr> But do you think a motorcycle company hold meetings discussing "why are we not making a 8 wheel motorcycle"?
09:24 < avemestr> Exactly.
09:24 < xx> I'd expect motorcycle companies to have talked about making 3 wheel motorcycles at some point in the past
09:24 < xx> and decided against it for some reason, and i'd like to know the reason
09:25 < xx> could have been 50 years ago the decision was made, just like in unix
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09:33 < avemestr> I believe it was right about the same time, as the meeting was held deciding not to use a: as a way to indicate first disk drive.
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09:56 < dqk> there is actually motorcycles with 3 wheels
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09:59 < dqk> i don't think there's anything preventing you to write a program with long options although keep in mind it's a gnu feature and thus it might not be implemented the same way
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10:16 < xx> yes, nothing is preventing anyone from doing it, that's why my question remains why openbsd doesn't have it for its core utilities. Nevermind, I guess.
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10:17 < penne> ig the reason is just historical. -o options already existed so why fix it if it aint broken
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10:19 < penne> changing all the utilities to add gnu style options sounds like some work that can be put somewhere else. aka not critical enough or needed
10:20 < penne> idk who can push such decisions tho
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10:25 < avemestr> I think Theo summed up the project's position on this debate quite succinctly here: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169524478100519
10:26 < penne> o thx ill check it out
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10:51 < A1ice> hi, I have an OpenBSD device, which does not have OpenBSD's pre-compiled packages support. I want to install software on it, but I don't want to run the ports on this machine. Is there a way to compile and package these pkgs by other machine and can be install like pkg_add?
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11:21 < vortexx> cross compiling ports... Shouldn't be too much of an issue once you've got it setup but probably not for the faint hearted. Presumably dpb knows how to do this
11:21 < vortexx> indeed it does, from the manpage: -A sets the architecture to build for
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11:31 < pardis> might be easiest to install whatever architecture you want to build packages for in qemu
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11:34 < pardis> relatedly to the earlier conversation, why doesn't OpenBSD have options that start with / for Windows compat?
11:35 < pardis> is it because nobody knows it's possible?
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11:36 < vortexx> yeah qemu might be easiest
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11:38 < sibiria> why doesn't openbsd use c:\blah\bleh path format to be compatible with windows? stupid openbsd
11:39 < vortexx> cos we're not VMS
11:40 < oldlaptop> Well, there was that talk about implementing Word for microsoft compatibility a while back
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11:44 < vortexx> dpb: Can't use -j if -A arch is not local architecture <-- this'll slow things down a bit. I'm testing building xz with dpb in i386 on amd64
11:44 < vortexx> will try some other archs too, I'm curious about this
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11:51 < vortexx> mh it goes through the build process but no packages appear in my new packages directory
11:52 < vortexx> weird
11:52 < vortexx> same with alpha
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12:08 < finkfox> when trying to sysupgrade my apu I get "Checking root filesystem (fsck -fp /dev/sd0a)...FAILED.
12:08 < finkfox> cp: /mnt/var/log/ai.log.19480: No such file or directory" ... the autoinstaller aborts and the system is rebooted.
12:08 < finkfox> how can I "fix" this?
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12:21 < vortexx> finkfox: boot into single user mode with bsd -s at the boot prompt and fsck -y /dev/rsd0a, exit and then rerun sysupgrade
12:24 < sibiria> boot -s
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12:36 < xx> when installing openbsd, what is c: in here? https://0x0.st/X-LL.png
12:36 < xx> the whole disk is 100G
12:36 < finkfox> vortexx: ok I will try.
12:38 < jca> xx: it's a reserved partition that represents the entire disk
12:39 < xx> I see
12:39 < xx> that's a little weird
12:39 < vortexx> it's a artefact from the days of BSD on VMS
12:39 < vortexx> s/a artefact/an artefact
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12:42 < vortexx> finkfox: is this a system with a small disk, or are you using all the diskspace for sd0a?
12:44 < finkfox> vortexx: after "bsd -s" I had to do a "fsck -fy" the reboot with "bsd.upgrade". now it finally works. Not sure what exactly went wrong here.
12:44 < finkfox> vortexx: did the fs get corrupted on each "normal" reboot?
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12:47 < vortexx> finkfox: possibly yeah. Try installing smartmontools and do smartcl -a /dev/rsd0c on it to see if there any errors?
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12:48 < sibiria> openbsd has "atactl" in base as well, as an alternative. it can do limited SMART readout
12:53 < vortexx> oh I'd totally forgotten about atactl, thanks sibiria 
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13:54 < jmcunx> I noticed something odd but not concerning with 7.5. Upgrade to 7.5 went to GNU emacs 29.3, but pkg has just 29.2.  Wondering if I should go to 29.2
13:55 < jca> what is "pkg"?
13:56 < jca> the intent is that people use 29.3 on both 7.5 and -current
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14:03 < jmcunx> this is on ftp4.usa.openbsd.org, it points to 29.2.  I will check cdn.openbsd.org to see what 'pkg_info -Q' shows there
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14:05 < jmcunx> cdn.openbsd.org now as 29.2 also, odd
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14:10 < jca> jmcunx: oh I'm confused sorry, 29.3 hasn't been commited to the 7.5 branch
14:11 < jmcunx> somehow I neded up with 29.3, I will revert to 29.2, thanks
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14:12 < jmcunx> neded = ended
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14:13 < vortexx> jmcunx: maybe you did sysupgrad -s instead of just sysupgrade and ended up on a -current snapshot instead of -release, thus you got a newer version of emacs?
14:13 < vortexx> s/sysupgrad -s/sysupgrade -s
14:14 < jmcunx> possible, uname as 'OpenBSD qball.jmcunx.com 7.5 GENERIC.MP#82 amd64
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14:15 < jca> 7.4 ships 29.3 but 7.5 still has 29.2, it was an oversight.  29.3 should be available on 7.5 in the next hours/days
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14:16 < jmcunx> jca: that makes sense, that clears up my confusion, thanks
14:17 < jca> thank you for pointing this out
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14:57 < martin_> I'm trying to understand why resolvd repeatedly writes /etc/resolv.conf, even though there are no changes. It logs the following resolvd[34497]: rebuilding: file trunc/write. DNS servers come from DHCP (dhcpleased on vlan102), but there is reconfiguration of the interface that correlates. Any suggestions?
14:57 < martin_> there is no reconfiguration*
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15:03 < Bradipo> I'm seeing some ANY queries for AAAA sl ... anyone know what the name "sl" might be and why someone would think my DNS server responds to it?
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18:27 < xse> martin_: another thing might be touching resolv.conf like even if it does not modify the content resolvd will react
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18:37 < penne> so i something like this in my ~/.xsession to crop my laptop screen because it got lots of dead pixels on the top right `xrandr --setmonitor cropped '1280/1x720/1+86+48' eDP`. dwm respects it and renders everything inside the cropped region even when maximized, but cwm just doesn't no matter what. what can i do to fix it? thx
18:38 < penne> s/i something/i have something/
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18:44 < martin_> xse: thanks! Turns out it was dhcpcd, which I'm using for dhcpv6 pd only. Adding -C resolv.conf to its flags fixed it
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19:04 < avemestr> penne: If you run xrandr (with no args) inside cwm, does it seem to be configured correctly?
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19:36 < dfdx> Hi #openbsd. I just created a user called _snac. But now when I try, as root, to "su _snac", I get: This account is currently not available.
19:36 < dfdx> is there a common reason why this happens? 
19:36 < sibiria> how did you create it?
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19:37 < dfdx> useradd -g =uid -c "Snac daemon user." -L daemon -s /sbin/nologin -d /var/snac _snac
19:37 < dfdx> sorry, missing an -m in there.
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19:38 < dfdx> weird...
19:38 < dfdx> "su _snac" won't work, but "doas -su _snac" does.
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19:39 < dfdx> i guess "su _snac" expects a login, but i have /sbin/nologin, so su fails.
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19:39 < sibiria> that's normal. you cannot substitute to a user without a working login shell
19:39 < sibiria> use -m for that
19:39 < dfdx> su -m _snac, you mean.
19:39 < sibiria> yes
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19:40 < dfdx> yes. okay, so there is nothing weird about this then.
19:40 < dfdx> that is, about the error message.
19:40 < sibiria> no
19:40 < dfdx> thank you, sibiria.
19:41 < sibiria> keep in mind it will leave the environment unmodified. there's also -s to enforce a new login shell, so that you can assume the full identity of the target
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19:41 < sibiria> i would typically do: su -l -s /bin/ksh <some user without login shell>
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19:48 < penne> avemestr: yeah but plain xrandr doesn't show the cropped, `xrandr --listmonitors` does show the configured monitor on both cwm & dwm
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20:13 < surgot> hello everyone
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20:13 < surgot> i need a suggestion
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20:13 < surgot> can anyone suggest some vps which allows smtp port? 
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20:14 < CosmicDJ> surgot: obsda.ms
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20:25 < sibiria> surgot: scaleway
20:25 < sibiria> (though you cannot run openbsd there easily)
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20:30 < vortexx> exoscale.ch do too but you have to request port 25 be opened. It's a metered service, so beware on your monthly costs
20:30 < pardis> vultr also, but you need to request it there as well
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20:33 < sibiria> with scaleway you just tick a box on your own. same with setting reverse on your IP. no customer support interaction needed
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20:41 < avemestr> Hetzner.de works as well - OpenBSD runs fine on their cloudy things (both AMD64 and arm64).
20:44 < schrht> I'll throw netcup.de in as well.
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21:03 < Lucas6023> buyvm.net works, hosthatch.com works
21:03 < Lucas6023> lunanode.com too
21:04 < Lucas6023> on hosthatch you might need to request it
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21:25 < pirateoverboard> got this error after booting up: reordering: ld.so libc libcrypto sshdrm: /usr/share/relink/_rebuild.k8dHyHy98tb/getprogname.so: Input/output error.
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21:26 < pirateoverboard> dmesg: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1314018
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21:28 < thrig> checking if the disk is full might be good
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21:32 < pirateoverboard> thrig: disk isn't close to full
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22:31 < mischief> sigh. ipfs makes my latency go through the roof
22:32 < mischief> 22000 pf states
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22:38 < mischief> i guess i need to setup my queueing better to handle it
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22:39 < sibiria> maybe reduce eventual blocklist size
22:40 < sibiria> pf-badhost is...bad...
22:40 < mischief> i don't have blocking tables
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23:37 < surgot> avemestr: i just open a account at Hetzner.de they clearly saying "Outgoing traffic to ports 25 and 465 are blocked by default on all Cloud Servers
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23:37 < surgot> You are currently not allowed to unblock these ports."
23:38 -!- nij- [~NPC@2601:180:8300:6610:39e3:acc3:1108:73b1] has joined #openbsd
23:38 < nij-> I understand that openbsd is a bit slower than linux. But it's much more secure!
23:39 < nij-> I wonder which part would be slower? If I just want to use it for my desktop DE, and do some computations sometimes.. will I notice a difference?
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23:39 < penne> the file system seems to be the bottleneck most of the time. the pkg manager too
23:40 < mischief> nij-: one way to find out
23:40 < sibiria> surgot: iirc you can ask them to open the ports up after a month
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23:41 < nij-> why would the pkg manager be slow?!
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23:41 < nij-> I thought it's more about disk io speed, right?
23:41 < nij-> mischief - is...? :-D
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23:42 < penne> anyone here using xterm? its such a pain to config but im tryna stick to base
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23:42 < surgot> sibiria: ahh alright i have to use vultr for now then idk am not sure they gonna allow the ports once they do i will shift everything to there 
23:43 < mischief> nij-: to stop wondering and go use openbsd. :-)
23:43 < mischief> penne: sure, i do. mostly on linux, though.
23:43 < sibiria> surgot: i use oracle with good results
23:44 < sibiria> (openbsd mail server)
23:44 < penne> mischief: i salute your patience. whats your term on obsd?
23:44 < nij-> mischief I installed it in my VM over macbook m2 which is incredibly slow.
23:44 < nij-> I need to get a real laptop for it.
23:44 < nij-> So I'd appreciate if someone here could share some experience before I do that.
23:44 < penne> nij-: baremetal for the full experience would be nice
23:45 < mischief> penne: also xterm
23:45 < mischief> sometimes i use st if i needed dynamic font resizing, say if i'm screensharing
23:45 < nij-> penne Yeah. When it comes to being "slower", is it mostly about disk IO?
23:45 < surgot> sibiria: do they allow port 25?
23:45 < surgot> ig so they wont 
23:46 < mischief> nij-: my condolences
23:46 < mischief> maybe time to feed the macbook to your dog.
23:47 < nij-> loll
23:48 < mischief> i thought m2 was supposed to be fast. maybe you are running x86 on it? i thought it had dynamic recompilation for x86 code, which i heard was still fast
23:48 < mischief> i have no problems with openbsd VMs on my ryzen desktops
23:49 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:50 < nij-> nope
23:50 < nij-> i've tried trouble shooting with help here
23:50 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has joined #openbsd
23:50 < nij-> for 3~4 days? forgot. gave up.
23:50 < sibiria> surgot: they will open the port up when you ask for it, after upgrading to paid tenancy
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23:52 -!- ikichiga [~ikichiga@95-24-5-116.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:52 < penne> nij-: so to share my experience ill start with the negaitves: forget about proprietary apps and games. we have less drivers here so make sure the laptop you get is supported. you can only virtualize openbsd and linux with 1 core via vmd, qemu works but is unusabilly slow afaik. no hyperthreading, smaller repos and the coreutils are less featureful than gnu's (a plus for me). as for the upsides:
23:52 < penne> simple and minimal. small clean codebase and excellent docs uptodate with the system. more coherent and unix-y than linux. less services and other bloat in the bg. proacively secure. simple updates and upgrades
23:52 -!- ikichiga [~ikichiga@95-24-5-116.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openbsd
23:53 < penne> mischief: yooo i love st. st and xterm are the best minimal terms fr
23:53 < nij-> i love to try it soon..
23:53 < nij-> will be moving to canada in may, and then i will buy a laptop for it!
23:53 < penne> goodluck and have fun
23:54 < nij-> i don't game, except playing go in webpage.
23:54 < nij-> I also emacs and lisp quite a lot.
23:54 < penne> yay i wanna move to canada too. they have nice immigration programs
23:54 < nij-> Other than that.. hmmm reading ebooks.
23:54 < nij-> penne I dunno.. Yeah the process has been nice. I dunno what's living like there though.
23:55 < penne> nij-: browsers work great. and i use zathura for books without problems
23:55 < nij-> What are some window managers that work for openbsd?
23:55 < penne> nij-: oh fair. wish ya a happy time
23:55 < nij-> st, stumpwm, bspwm?
23:55 < nij-> Thanks :D
23:55 < nij-> yay i love zathura too
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23:55 < nij-> I'm coming home! Moved from arch to macbook for 1.5 years.. I'm fed up.
23:55 < nij-> Though the hardware of m2 is really amazing..
23:56 < penne> nij-: there's fvwm & cwm in base. dwm works flawlessly too
23:56 < nij-> What's a good laptop for it? I was on x220 and loved it! But it's too old.. 
23:56 < penne> t480 sounds like a nice upgrade. getting one soon
23:56 < nij-> lemme see
23:56 < nij-> is it well tested by openbsd community?
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23:57 -!- haocrcmt^ [~cd@c-98-242-74-66.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:57 < penne> i read abt it and it looks like it. get opinions from others here and do more research tho
23:57 < nij-> kk
23:57 < nij-> how about x220?
23:58 < nij-> It's not expensive, and I know it's going to work.
23:58 < nij-> Last time i moved I trashed all of them :-(
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23:58 < penne> its a classic
23:59 < penne> i was gonna buy one but was savin up
23:59 < penne> having a t480 + x220 as backup/server is the dream
--- Log closed Sun Apr 14 00:00:05 2024