--- Log opened Sun Apr 14 00:00:05 2024
--- Day changed Sun Apr 14 2024
00:00 < nij-> x220 <3 mon amour
00:00 < nij-> t480 is kinda costly.. is it famously a good choice?
00:01 < penne> yea it be costly
00:01 < penne> sadly this idk. im new too to obsd and laptops too
00:01 < penne> some wiser ppl here might help
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00:02 < surgot> sibiria: ahh well, i already registered at some other cloud provider for now and just waiting for verification, i will try oracle if this doesn't works
00:03 < nij-> kk i will rely on my old love x220
00:03 < nij-> x220 was really nice..
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00:03 < nij-> i missed it
00:03 < sibiria> it's not hard to find providers who will allow outbound traffic towards port 25, but it's hard to find one who takes the whole thing serious in order to protect the reputation of their netblocks
00:04 < nij-> Oh no. I do use some proprietary stuff like dropbox..
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00:06 < penne> nij-: im sure youll find web versions for most stuff
00:07 < nij-> but i use that to backup my files :/
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00:07 < penne> aw. time for physical backups ig :b
00:08 < nij-> ig?
00:08 < penne> i guess
00:08 < surgot> sibiria: i agree
00:08 < nij-> dropbox sync all the time
00:09 < penne> they're better for your privacy anyways
00:09 < nij-> A small change -> sync.
00:09 < nij-> Any offline tool that's like that?
00:09 < penne> daily backup might do
00:09 < mischief> nij-: i use spectrwm.
00:09 < nij-> penne no.. daily is too slow..
00:10 < nij-> but hmm. perhaps daily works for me already.
00:10 < nij-> but i don't feel secure :/
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00:10 < penne> do you need to switch between multiple synced devices?
00:10 < nij-> iphone -_-
00:10  * nij- ducks
00:11 < penne> haha
00:11 < nij-> and i don't plan to stop using my macbook right away either
00:11 < nij-> so yes
00:11 < nij-> Also, my calendar and todos are stored in org files, which are synced via dropbox to iphone :/
00:11 < penne> idk but im sure there's a foss alternative someone here might point out
00:12 < nij-> kk
00:12 < thrig> todo? uh, vi ~/todo
00:13 < penne> im bad with backups lol i literally tar gzipped /home/penne /etc and /var then rsync'd them to termux on my android phone :b
00:13 < nij-> lol you don't use emacs?
00:13 < nij-> lol penne
00:14 < penne> this is till i get me proper external storage
00:14 < penne> thrig: based
00:14 < penne> nij-: i should try emacs it sounds neat
00:14 < thrig> I dropped emacs for vim over two decades ago, and then dropped vim for vi
00:15 < penne> thrig: howwww. vi dont even have undo history or syntax highlighting!
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00:16 < nij-> thrig must be kindin' me
00:16 < nij-> when will you switch back to pencils and papers?
00:17 < penne> i use it on simple edits or when editing /etc as root cause i dont trust my neovim and it's plugins to run as root
00:17 < nij-> btw, they are turing complete machines
00:17 < nij-> penne Emacs is fucking neat.
00:17 < nij-> It's a virtual lisp machine.
00:17 < penne> nij-: you forgot ed(1) :b
00:17 < nij-> ed - not based enough
00:17 < penne> nij-: hmm
00:17 < nij-> just use pencils and papers
00:17 < penne> yea
00:17 < penne> just use your memory
00:18 < thrig> syntax highlighting is about the first thing I turn off, and don't use undo history
00:18 < penne> thrig: aaaaaa what about cxxlrcaebklrabkqjbksatbrcABKRABK
00:19 < penne> i wanna try using only vi now...
00:19 < nij-> data is bloat
00:19 < nij-> don't write anything
00:19 < sibiria> vi users be like, "oh keyboard? i turn that off. i don't really believe in using keyboard for programming"
00:19 < nij-> haha
00:19 < penne> sibiria: programming? just use your mind!
00:20 < nij-> just use the universe
00:20 < sibiria> emacs users, "tbh keyboard is overrated. i simulate it using <something else>, i find it far more intuitive and productive"
00:20 < penne> compile the program in your brain and run each assembly line in your head EASY
00:21 < sibiria> they always seem to want to one-up eachother and everyone else in coming up with the most contrived and retarded setups for just navigating in text and editing text
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00:22 < penne> meanwhile vscode users getting shit done
00:22 < penne> this a joke dont kill me
00:23 < sibiria> i really love Sublime Text
00:23 < oldlaptop> Someone's got to buy all those DIMMs they're making
00:23 < penne> same it was my fav for a long time
00:23 < thrig> some users wanted sublime text installed. didn't wanna pay for it
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00:24 < sibiria> thankfully it's just nagware
00:24 < oldlaptop> I'm amused to see the electron-editor things make me look like I'm saving memory using kate.
00:24 < sibiria> and tbh not very nagging. pops up a dialog every 50 saves or something
00:24 < penne> it looks like a nice foss editor. why dont it just act like one
00:24 < sibiria> can be closed immediately
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00:24 < oldlaptop> (which is a hog by pre-electron standards, but maybe not so much now)
00:24 < penne> oldlaptop: electron apps scare me
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00:25 < penne> in the future the browser will be the os
00:25 < oldlaptop> Realistically they've been there on the Planet Of The Users for years now
00:25 < mischief> you act like it isn't already
00:26 < penne> i will be a bitter old person then and i will yell at the cloud as i reminice about "how we did it back in the day"
00:26 < penne> oldlaptop: yea
00:26 < penne> mischief: sadly yes but needs more work
00:26 < oldlaptop> It's slightly less bad than running everything in flash or whatever. (At least the Augean-stable crew can still keep the reference implementation of the GoogVM compiling.)
00:27 < penne> o im happy i wasnt there in the flash days
00:27 < thrig> flash did have a lot of CVEs
00:27 < penne> i hate js
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00:28 < oldlaptop> It's cool to have (say) onshape run "on" openbsd. (Cooler still to use some of the newer inhabitants of cad/ for the same job, but as cool as cad/solvespace and cad/openscad are, they don't quite do all the same things)
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00:29 < penne> idc if it saves time and makes your job easier. programs belong in the os, documents belong in the browser
00:29 < penne> oldlaptop: is that a webapp?
00:29  * oldlaptop strongly recommends the former, incidentally, to users of FusionSolid360OnshapeWorks missing the ability to define geometry with pictures instead of math
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00:30 < oldlaptop> penne: onshape is, more or less, Google Docs for high-end professional solid modeling
00:30 < penne> oh my
00:30 < penne> thats one upside of it at least
00:30 < oldlaptop> (free as in beer for noncommercial models you're willing to license under the vaguely ISC-smelling license specified in ToS)
00:31 < penne> you can run proprietary stuff anywhepe
00:31 < penne> oh foss too?
00:32 < oldlaptop> No, Onshape is assuredly *not* FOSS. I'm sure they use it in the sense that their servers are probably all linux, etc.
00:33 < oldlaptop> The "free" plan requires that your models be public and liberally licensed as a condition of service.
00:33 < penne> ohh interesting
00:33 < oldlaptop> (I assume it's a holdup for some prospective customers that there's no space between that and "lots and lots of money")
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00:34 < oldlaptop> Anyhow. cad/solvespace does the important 20% (maybe not even that much, but enough to be useful) without the GoogVM or 1.21 gigabytes or armies of lawyers.
00:35 < oldlaptop> Strongly recommended.
00:35 < penne> nice
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00:54 < mischief> solvespace is cool
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01:10 < vortexx> penne: you can enable hyperthreading on OpenBSD but it's turned off by default, for security reasons. YMMV on how useful or not this is
01:10 < vortexx> adding hw.smt=1 to /etc/sysctl.conf and rebooting will reenable it
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01:16 < vortexx> penne: also one of the joys of OpenBSD (and other BSDs) is a lot of GNU tools and commands have replacements in base. There's always something to learn from that.
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01:17 < vortexx> OpenBSD's sets allow to do most networking and OS administration with just the base tools, nothing more, and that's half the point of using it
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01:56 < ssm_> just remember disabling the 'games' set will lead to serious system security holes
01:57 < ssm_> an admin without hack(6) or tetris(6) will go mad and install a backdoor in no time at all
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02:23 < oldlaptop> ssm_: especially once the realization hits that you wasted multiple seconds typing -gameXX.tgz, all to save about 2M of disk
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06:58 < avemestr> surgot: After you have paid the first invoice you can request SMTP opened.
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06:58 < avemestr> Sorry, just saw sibiria beat me to it.
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08:26 < surgot> avemestr: oh alright thanks anyways
08:28 < avemestr> As indicated above it's possible to find providers that allow SMTP from the go, if they do not care about the reputation of their IP blocks. So you sign up, and is able to send mails, but nobody accepts them because your IP is tainted.
08:29 < IcePic> yeah. email is hard to run for yourself these days
08:29 < IcePic> unfortunately
08:30 < avemestr> Hetzners approach prevents drive-by spammers from tainting their IP blocks. Also, Hetzner is (in)famous for requiring validation of different sorts if you're from a foreign country. But I think it's fine. They don't want to facilitate spammers.
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09:33 < surgot> avemestr: i'll try hetzners i've already verfied my gov id's over there so i guess so they will allow after certain time. yeah its pain this days to get a good cloud provider who provides smtp i did had linode account and they unblocked the ports but later i just loss access to that account and now am just struggling everywhare even vultr not allowing to use port 25
09:36 < surgot> i can't even create a new linode account it said sign up cancelled due to "fraudulent behavior" i tried contacting with them but no reply
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10:03 < sibiria> linode is one of the providers that don't care about netblock reputation
10:03 < sibiria> i see tons and tons of spam attempts coming from compromised linode servers
10:04 < sibiria> compromised/abused
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10:08 < surgot> sibiria: i see 
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12:06 < penne> vortexx: thx for the correction <3
12:06 < penne> and it's true you can do more with less on obsd
12:07 < penne> idk why my msgs didnt send. i think it was an internet issue
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14:01 < cat5> thrig: tell me about dropping vim for vi i am interested
14:04 < penne_> ^
14:04 < avemestr> "Install OpenBSD. Do NOT do 'pkg_add vim'."?
14:05 < cat5> avemestr: my curiousity is satiated, thank you
14:06 < sibiria> give micro a try. fantastic and power terminal editor
14:06 < sibiria> powerful*
14:06 < cat5> but i'm addiced to vim
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14:09 < sibiria> micro is: https://github.com/zyedidia/micro
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14:13 < cat5> >successor to nano
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14:26 < sibiria> >better alternative to insane emacs fanboy culture
14:26 < sibiria> etc.
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15:26 < avemestr> sibiria: Do you use the ODroid H3 Net card accessory?
15:27 < mischief> i do, on the h2+
15:27 < mischief> old picture :) https://i.imgur.com/vTN45NT.jpg
15:29 < avemestr> Seems Odroid H3(+) is more or less the only option as successor to the APUs, if one wants gigabit speeds AND low-power consumption. The CWWK/TopTon/Kingnovy/HUNSN/etc devices with newer CPUs (N100 etc) all comes with the I225/I226-V NICs which are not hassle-free according to the interwebs.
15:30 < avemestr> mischief: Nice!
15:31 < mischief> lately having trouble with it falling over with thousands of pf states, but that seems to be more of a software problem than a problem with the hw
15:31 < mischief> cpu is idle most of the time
15:32 < mischief> avemestr: do you need a dmesg?
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15:33 < avemestr> mischief: Could be interesting! There's some on NYC*BUG but none with 7.5 and H2+: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?fts=odroid
15:34 < avemestr> mischief: Especially the NICs on the Net card is worth knowing :-)
15:37 < avemestr> mischief: Do you run the OS off an eMMC or some SATA-attached SSD?
15:37 < sibiria> avemestr: i do not, but i believe metavoid does, for the H3
15:37 < sibiria> iirc he said openbsd can reach all of the NICs on it just fine
15:39 < sibiria> if it matters: the old H3 netcard has the same realtek NICs as the mainboard. the new edition netcard has intel i226 (or i225?)
15:39 < mischief> a bit noisy from wireguard but oh well
15:39 < mischief> https://0x0.st/X-vp.boot;
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15:42 < mischief> avemestr: i used to use the mmc but it was too slow. the 2.5" ssd is a very tight fit in the case, but i have a cheap 120G disk in there
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15:42 < avemestr> Interesting! "Intel UHD Graphics 600" went from "not configured" to working over some time/reboots it seems? Perhaps 7.4 to 7.5?
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15:43 < mischief> avemestr: bsd.upgrade
15:43 < mischief> i upgraded like last week
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15:44 < sibiria> "intel uhd graphics" on my h3, on 7.4, works fine
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15:49 < thrig> ding dong LESSOPEN is getting itself dead
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15:50 < avemestr> Thanks for all the input!
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15:53 < mischief> worth noting the rx performance is a little low, which i think is a problem in the rge(4) driver.
15:54 < mischief> see https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=170306229908085&w=2
16:01 < avemestr> Both my ISP and attached devices are 1Gbps at the moment, so it seems plenty fast.
16:03 < sibiria> i have no means of testing if my H3 can do a full 2.5 gbps in either direction, but i think it's capable of it. at 1 gbps it's nowhere near significant cpu/intr/sys/ stress
16:04 < mischief> i have a full 2.5G main lan, and 10G from my desktop to my closet server thru a 10/2.5 dumb switch
16:05 < mischief> and wireless router capable of 2.5/10
16:06 < avemestr> You're living in the future :-)
16:06 < mischief> i recently picked up one of these as well, they are the same chipset that is in the odroid hw https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZCVC9B4
16:07 < mischief> avemestr: with a little investment, it's not that much. especially if you don't buy overpriced server/prosumer stuff
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16:08 < avemestr> It seems RTL8125(B) is quite well-performing under OpenBSD and more stable than I225/I226-V, even though it seems those are also becoming more stable.
16:08 < avemestr> Imagine living in a world where Realtek is the safe choice over Intel :-D
16:08 < sibiria> i don't think realtek has had hardware problems in their NICs in the last 20 years
16:08 < sibiria> last known case was early 2000s or late 90s
16:08 < sibiria> intel, too, had their share of broken NICs
16:09 < thrig> all part of Intel's "tick, tock, thud" cycle
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16:10 < sibiria> i personally never had issues with realtek during the ~25 years i've used their NICs. always delivered
16:10 < avemestr> Yes! And it's quite a difficult impression to shake. Perhaps I226-V is rock-solid now. But people (or me at least) is hesitant buying devices with that due to the I225 troubles a couple of years ago.
16:10 < sibiria> and, darn it, i really rather buy taiwanese realtek than american intel
16:10 < thrig> some professor bought a $5 nic back in the 1990s, had to run ping every minute or so or otherwise it would fail on linux
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16:37 < martian67> intel falling down on NICs is some sad ahit
16:37 < martian67> shit
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17:15 < thrig> this ncurses code is giving me a headache
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17:16 < avemestr> Makes one wanna swear 'n curse.
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18:17 < ssm_> how I feel today https://0x0.st/X-wy.jpg
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18:19 < thrig> ping of pings
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18:22 < thrig> read my shorts, what the heck ncurses. where do you load the damn file or fail??
18:23 < thrig> read_shorts -> Read -> fake_read -> etc etc etc
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20:23 < puffybuf> how do I get ipv6 dns resolvers to setup automatically in resolv.conf, resolvd only puts ip4
20:24 < thrig> SLAAC don't do DNS
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20:25 < puffybuf> I get an ipv6 using: ifconfig vio0 autoconf
20:26 < puffybuf> ifconfig vio0 inet6 autoconf
20:26 < zelest> which runs slaac :)
20:27 < puffybuf> is dhcpleased getting the resolvers?
20:28 < zelest> dhcpleased is used for interfaces with AUTOCONF4 and slaacd is used for interfaces with AUTOCONF6
20:28 < puffybuf> dhcpleasectl  -l vio0
20:28 < puffybuf> does show all the ip4 nameservers
20:29 < thrig> SLAACD don't do DNS, autoconf does SLAACD, therefore Socrates is mortal
20:30 < zelest> Interestingly enough though, slaacd(8) mention "IPv6 Router Advertisement Options for DNS Configuration, RFC 8106"
20:31 < puffybuf> my virtual host provider doesn't allow the ipv6 address slaacd gives btw, I have to manually put in the ipv6 address they want me to use which is annoying
20:31 < puffybuf> yea so obsd just doesn't do it
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20:32 < thrig> only took them like a decade or more to get that into SLAAC (whoops?)
20:32 < thrig> "uh hey guys what about DNS?"
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20:37 < sibiria> puffybuf: you have to install dhcpcd
20:38 < sibiria> and use dhcpv6
20:38 < thrig> bad news if your ISP don't offer a server for that
20:38 < thrig> in which case uh manual config via some include
20:40 < puffybuf> other soln: I can get the information through akamai interface and write a script to setup my virtual hosts I guess
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20:55 < xFCFFDFFFFEFFFAF> p/
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21:11 < penne> o7
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23:19 < thrig> whoops, vi don't like it when you break ncurses
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23:31 < vortexx> thrig: you don't say?
23:31 < vortexx> lol
23:32 < vortexx> what are you up to with ncurses anyway?
23:33 < vortexx> tsk, I somehow deleted minidlna's entry in login.conf when running sysmerge... And it filled /var up with a log complaining of too mane open files.
23:33 < vortexx> going to have to get newsyslog to handle it
23:34 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/log-spam.txt
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 15 00:00:45 2024