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01:19 < coleman> I'm having some trouble compiling Oils shell w/ Readline. The symbols in readline seem to be quite different on openbsd. Is readline heavily patched? You can see my compiler errors here https://github.com/oilshell/oil/issues/1942
01:21 < thrig> readline 9 code may not be compatible with readline-8.2
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01:25 < coleman> Hm, I'm new to openbsd kinda. I ran `pkg_info readline` to check my version and it said 8.2; is there another way to check my version?
01:25 < thrig> what for?
01:25 < coleman> for readline
01:26 < thrig> oh maybe readline got updated in base, I used to have to compile a custom version of it
01:26 < coleman> My uname -a prints OpenBSD mammoth.chroot.club 7.5 GENERIC.MP#138 arm64
01:26 < thrig> so maybe the oilshell needs an older version of readline, not 8.2?
01:28 < coleman> It compiles with 8.2 on my Void Linux machine. It _seems_ like some symbols are different on OpenBSD. It could also be a broken ./configure script in the oil shell repo :)
01:28 < coleman> I will continue to investigate. the oil shell author does not test on openbsd yet
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02:38 < oldlaptop> coleman: nothing outside /usr/local (with exceptions for things like rcscripts under /etc/rc.d) comes from packages. If you want that thing to use readline from packages, those headers and libraries will be under /usr/local somewhere.
02:40 < oldlaptop> whereas if you actually take a look inside /usr/include/readline.h, you'll see #define RL_READLINE_VERSION     0x0403          /* Readline 4.3 */
02:40 < thrig> pkg-config --cflags --libs readline
02:40 < oldlaptop> (I would assume that's the last GPL2 version; that's certainly where base gcc stopped.)
02:42 < thrig> Friday! time to add encryption support to the mail delivery agent... or I could do some more testing
02:42 < oldlaptop> What could possibly go wrong?
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03:19 < coleman> :) thank you!
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03:28 < coleman> I installed readline 8.2 and me main header is at include/ereadline/readline/readline.h
03:29 < coleman> I think I have enough to go on now. Thanks for your help :) 
03:30 < coleman> I should clarify: /usr/local/include/ereadline/readline/readline.h like you said
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08:55 < solene> hi
08:59 < sibiria> aloha
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09:14 < penne> hi
09:16 < thyssentishman> avemestr: care to elaborate on how the t14s g2 is an upgrade from the L14 g5?
09:17 < Lucas6023> coleman: there are quite a few tools that are present both in base and ports. In those cases, even if the port package keeps the same name, things are usually prefixed with an `e` when installed in the filesystem. In this case, you'll find /usr/include/local/ereadline.
09:18 < Lucas6023> you'll have to patch Oils to pick up the right paths in OpenBSD
09:18 < Lucas6023> (you can find the list of installed files of a package with `pkg_info -L $the_package` btw)
09:19 < Lucas6023> it's probably best to check some port that depends on ports' readline to take a dimension of the required patches
09:22 < Lucas6023> oh, I missed the latter messages when oldlaptop already told you all this :(
09:26 < penne> talking about laptops. i read on some openbsd forum that not using proprietary firmware is counterinuitive and that you should worry more about drivers. that got me thinking. is this the same case for proprietary bios and the intel management system? i wanna get the free-est system i can and a power9 is very expensive, so a good option would be a librebooted thinkpad. there's also the problem with
09:26 < penne> the x200 being the only one where you can fully remove the ime, later ones just neuter it. so what im asking is whether ime is a privacy/security risk or if its no big deal like other firmware. thx
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09:34 < solene> penne: I'm using a laptop with coreboot, it allows you to neuter intel ME or even install HEADS if you want to protect your laptop against evil maid attack
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09:41 < penne> solene: nice i didn't know about HEADS, ill look into it thx. what model btw if i can ask
09:41 < solene> penne: this one https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2024-01-03-laptop-review-novacustom-nv41.html
09:42 < penne> nice
09:45 < sibiria> i see you have the same openbsd knit plushie as i do
09:45 < sibiria> mine stands guard on my server/router
09:46 < avemestr> thyssentishman: X > T > L > E.
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09:50 < penne> i need one too :3 gotta learn some knitting
09:50 < solene> sibiria: did you buy this one? https://www.doomyflocrochet.com/boutique/amigurumi-linux/poisson-globe-openbsb-diodon-puffy-blowfish-au-crochet-en-coton-amigurumi/ I like her work
09:51 < sibiria> solene: yep
09:52 < solene> I just saw the rust and vlc one, they are so cute :D
09:53 < avemestr> thyssentishman: Obviously a T14s Gen 4 AMD would be better, but then you face the same wifi card troubles etc. 
09:53 < sibiria> the world needs more AMD laptops
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10:07 < thyssentishman> avm
10:08 < thyssentishman> avemestr: yeah but the X > T > L ... doesn't necessarily hold true always
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10:09 < thyssentishman> just like you can have 64gb ram on the L14 gen 5 but not on the T14s gen 4
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10:13 < mischief> where's P fit in there? my work machine is a P14s gen 3 :)
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10:14 < avemestr> I prefer laptops to be laptops, workstations to be workstations, and servers to be servers. But if you want to buy a luggable laptop with a soldered not-so-supported wifi chip with worse build quality to get a lot of RAM and/or CPU power that's obviously an option.
10:15 < sibiria> my work laptop is a Lenovo T495 (Ryzen model). i'm generally satisfied with it, but the build quality is flimsy and the color gamut of the screen is surprisingly poor. it far from fits its price tag
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10:15 < sibiria> i'd label it as "mid-tier chinese garbage"
10:16 < avemestr> Lenovo explains the ranges quite well here (note the "read more" link to see L, E, etc): https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/faqs/laptop-faqs/best-thinkpad-for-you/
10:16 < sibiria> i'd never buy lenovo for personal use of course
10:17 < sibiria> "T" being "flagship" is just hilarious given the quality of this thing. they've really dropped the ball on quality
10:20 < avemestr> sibiria: True, but doesn't change their position relative to the L and E series.
10:20 < sibiria> i'd dread being given an L/E issue
10:30 < vortexx> 'afternoon. What's the battery life like on X or T series with obsdfreqd running, not running any apps making the cpu hit 100% of use ? (so no streaming videos etc)
10:35 < avemestr> I don't use obsdfreqd, but get 3-4 hours or so on X395 with i3, chrome, some urxvt...
10:37 < vortexx> ok thanks
10:37 < vortexx> that's rather good for openbsd
10:37 < sibiria> no info to give. i don't run openbsd on mine
10:38 < avemestr> It's about 5 years old. Damn. Time flies. Is also able to run two additional displays both doing 2560 x 1440 when docked to them.
10:39 < zelest> yeah, I get about 3-4 hours (more if I try to be economical) on my X395.. also about 5 years and literally used every single day.
10:39 < avemestr> Right now: "Battery state: high, 61% remaining, 176 minutes life estimate" - but that's a bit optimistic.
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10:39 < zelest> and apm -A 
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10:52 < solene> vortexx: if your laptop lowest frequency is very low, the CPU could reach 100% usage easily because it can't computes much.
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10:56 < sibiria> the trick is to make the excellent obsdfreqd balance between being snappy/reactive and still moderate with ramping up freq.
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10:59 < solene> I'd like to implement in it a logic that could use some levels before trying to ramp too high. if the CPU freq could increase to 50% maximum for a while before trying to reach more, it could help maybe
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11:01 < vortexx> solene: don't worry I know that. I'm on a Dell XPS 9310 with an unsupported wifi chip (AX500... maybe qwx will support this one day). My battery is pretty degraded, but I haven't booted into OpenBSD on it in a month or two to see how long it lasts when using ethernet.
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11:02 < vortexx> I have a bad tendency to run multiple video streams at once (one to listen to, one to look at) and it really eats battery life :)
11:03 < solene> vortexx: it eats battery because OpenBSD uses CPU to decode them instead of the GPU, this is a huge energy waste unfortunately
11:04 < solene> and implementing something in obsdfreqd would benefit to all users, not just you ;)
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11:05 < vortexx> solene: yes I realize that
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11:44 < MiniontobyPI> since byteskeptical left and I don't know when he is back, I guess I will ask anyone else.
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11:46 < MiniontobyPI> I got a public protected ipv6 subnet that I can 'claim' using a GRE tunnel. I have set up the tunnel, and I am receiving packets from the tunnel. However, they are not being processed. It seems that when I disable my pf, then it does try to send a reply, but directly to the requester ip, instead of throu the tunnel
11:46 < MiniontobyPI> Can someone help me with my pf.conf?
11:46 < MiniontobyPI> My current pf.conf is located here: https://pastebin.com/hTYWA52Q
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11:49 < sibiria> if it were me, i'd start *without* the bells and whistles. e.g. your "flushudp" extras and syncookies
11:49 < sibiria> same with the antispoof rule, which can sometimes be deceiving and get in the way
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11:53 < sibiria> routing with match-to can also be a bit confusing, because with match it's not immediately obvious where in the sequence of events the nat happens - and order of the rules do matter
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11:53 < sibiria> i don't route with match-to myself. i do it with "pass out on $if blah blah nat-to ($if)" at the correct location in the rule set
11:54 < sibiria> and following that routing, the actual "pass out" for the interface in question
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12:02 < MiniontobyPI> yeah, I added them later, tho
12:02 < MiniontobyPI> the scrub and antispoff
12:02 < MiniontobyPI> same for the match-to
12:04 < MiniontobyPI> sibiria: what do you recommend to do?
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12:07 < sibiria> the things i wrote above is what i recommend. other than that i don't think i can help because i've never used anything gre, so i don't really know how it behaves
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12:12 < MiniontobyPI> Set the "flushudp" to "", commented the syncookies, antispoof and match-to stuff.
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12:23 < tpfau> i am continuing my experiment to get openbsd running on my old alpha workstation. prebuilt packages are no longer available for alpha so i'm trying to build what i need from ports. unfortunately, several ports are failing to build because they can't find GL and/or EGL libs. looks like they were last included in xbase in openbsd 6.7.
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12:38 < thyssentishman> avemestr: thanks for the links. Have you read about the t14 gen 5? it seems to check all the boxes
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12:38 < thyssentishman> however I'm not sure what issues the integrated NPU could cause when using openbsd
12:39 < thyssentishman> it surely isn't supported, but you think that'd cause any issues?
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12:42 < avemestr> thyssentishman: It's a good question. I'd guess it simply would not be used, but truth be told I have no idea how OpenBSD would handle it. Often it's a good idea to wait 2-4 months after new hardware is launched and then check the mailing lists, reddit and https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi for status on support.
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12:45 < avemestr> thyssentishman: Another issue - though I'm not sure - might be the that Intels so-called performance and efficiency cores might not be well-supported (the scheduler might not know the difference). brynet mentioned it a couple of years ago, but I don't know if things have changed - hence my preference for AMD:
12:45 < avemestr> https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/qpzgda/anyone_try_out_one_of_those_new_alder_lake_cpus/
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12:46 < thyssentishman> avemestr: yeah I'd wait if I didn't need the laptop soon, but I also don't mind being the guinea pig
12:47 < thyssentishman> I'd definitely wait for the AMD version (sadly also with integrated NPU) that's supposed to come out next month
12:49 < MiniontobyPI> someone else able to help me?
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12:55 < thyssentishman> avemestr: a shit, the t14 g5 also has soldered Qualcomm WiFi card
12:57 < avemestr> Kinda expected. Seems all AMD from G3 onwards have it :-(
12:57 < avemestr> It suddenly makes sense, that G1s can still be found but no G2s and lots of G3s :D
12:59 < mischief> why do you think qwx driver appeared.. :)
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13:06 < avemestr> Because Qualcomm suddenly realized the error of their ways and decided to make public the information necessary for writing a driver? /s
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13:33 < thyssentishman> is it bad though? or is it just a matter of just waiting/hoping/implementing support for it?
13:34 < thyssentishman> s/support/full support/
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14:05 < amnesiac> Hi. why in boot log exists: 'scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets' ? also follow same with vscsi and softraid0. I does not have mpath devices. However have softraid0 attached. but not on all hosts where this message exists. 
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14:32 < vortexx> amnesiac: just another driver included I guess. I'd never noticed it but my VMs and the APU2 have it as well. Probably does no harm
14:33 < amnesiac> vortexx, same for thinkcentre and apu3 amd64, and arm64 for raspberry
14:34 < amnesiac> vortexx, thank for confirm.
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14:37 < sibiria> maybe that's related to the absurd time the kernel init needs to pass through disk enumeration before continuing
14:37 < sibiria> probing for targets that don't exist
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15:46 < avemestr> thyssentishman: Not "bad" per se. It's just 802.11g speeds as far as I know. Might get better - hopefully stsp gets funding to keep hacking away on the driver.
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16:52 < vortexx> weird, I'm getting icmp denied on IPv4 on one of my uplinks all of a sudden. Router hasn't rebooted, no changes to pf, no changes to anything
16:52 < vortexx> PING 9.9.9.9 (9.9.9.9): 56 data bytes
16:52 < vortexx> ping: sendmsg: Permission denied
16:52 < vortexx> same when pinging the uplink
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17:03 < vortexx> tcp/udp traffic is working
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17:04 < zelest> Permission denied sounds like pf though
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17:46 < vortexx> zelest: yeah it does, yet both links have the same config for icmp... 3 types allowed in, and none of the outgoing traffic is filtered, just pass out on $int
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18:07 < vortexx> found it, the interface's IP somehow ended up in the ssh-violations table
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18:07 < thrig> I tend to put a whitelist before the blacklists
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18:12 < MiniontobyPI> someone else able to help me with my packet filter for my GRE tunnel?
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18:21 < vortexx> thrig: not the worst of ideas, thanks a lot
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18:56 < vortexx> MiniontobyPI: best to email misc@ about it, don't forget to include pf.conf in full
18:57 < vortexx> MiniontobyPI: do you have this sysctl enabled? net.inet.gre.allow=1
18:57 < vortexx> it's turned off by default it seems
18:58 < sibiria> also don't forget forwarding
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19:51 < MiniontobyPI> vortexx and sibiria: I have those enabled. the ones for ip forwarding were also needed for iked. And the net.inet.gre.allow I added for the gre, yeah
19:53 < MiniontobyPI> about mailing to the misc@, i do not prefer to do that, with these kinds of things
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20:00 < spuos> hey, I'm new to openbsd, coming from Linux. Are there any good resources to get started? At the moment I need help getting a new network set up but besides that I'd love to know some good software and things I'd need to set up 
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20:03 < mischief> spuos: see "OpenBSD Resources" on https://www.openbsd.org/
20:04 < mischief> especially the FAQ
20:05 < avemestr> And e.g. openports.pl if you want to search on a web site for the games and applications available with a simple "pkg_add" command.
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20:08 < spuos> Oh I had no idea I already had ports installed, that's neat. Is there an easy way to check what parts of my hardware are supported? i.e, sound, gpu, etc
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20:08 < vortexx> spuos: you can try this: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=index
20:09 < vortexx> too much hw in 2024 to be able to maintain a full list of supported/unsupported
20:09 < vortexx> if you're going to use something else than x86/amd64 there's http://www.openbsd.org/plat.html
20:10 < avemestr> spuos: dmesg | grep "not configured" will list the devices that are NOT supported on your system.
20:12 < avemestr> spuos: You don't have to use ports. Install the pre-built packages (that is based on ports) by using pkg_add. No need to use ports unless you have specific/custom needs for some specific software.
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20:21 < spuos> avemestr, Ohhh I thought pkg_add was the interface for ports. Also it looks like I'm on software rendering :/ is there a way to check audio? 
20:22 < avemestr> Play some sounds..?
20:22 < spuos> well yeah but I don't have any on the system yet lol
20:23 < sibiria> cat /dev/random to the audio device
20:23 < sibiria> unpleasant, but it works
20:24 < avemestr> ... or just some browser to access a site on the interwebz that provide audio. I've even heard they have video some places too.
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20:27 < spuos> yep, works 
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20:34 < avemestr> Start by getting your wired network connection working - then fetch firmware required for the wifi, amdgpu, or other devices where firmware is missing.
20:34 < avemestr> If you had a wired connection during install this would have happened automatically, but it's a bit late for that now.
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20:35 < avemestr> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html
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20:35 < spuos> oh I was just working on that
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20:36 < spuos> having some issues on the nameserver though, I think I have to reload networking, how do I reload an init script? 
20:36 < avemestr> Basicly do "ifconfig" and find the name of your wired interface. Probably ure0 or something. If that's the name, create the file /etc/hostname.ure0 that just contains one line: inet autoconf
20:36 < spuos> they're shell scripts on obsd, right?
20:36 < avemestr> sh /etc/netstart
20:37 < avemestr> Or reboot :D
20:37 < spuos> lol
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20:42 < spuos> that's odd, I can't seem to resolve anything still. can ping external addresses, though. I tried stuffing a ns in /etc/resolv.conf and reloading resolvd, though
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20:43 < sibiria> if you don't need the dns provided over dhcp, you can disable resolvd entirely
20:45 < vortexx> resolvd shouldn't be used on a router if you're planning on running a dns server on it
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20:45 < spuos> it's a laptop
20:45 < vortexx> ok
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20:46 < vortexx> man unwind might be of interest then
20:47 < avemestr> It ought to Just Work.
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20:50 < spuos> It's possible the original network I set up in the install is trying to resolve to a ns on my company network, is there a place that would be listed ?
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20:51 < sibiria> main entry point for dns is always in resolv.conf
20:53 < spuos> I put resolve 1.1.1.1 inside, nothing else beside the unwind entry 
20:53 < sibiria> "nameserver 1.1.1.1" you mean?
20:53 < spuos> ys
20:53 < spuos> yes*
20:55 < spuos> since I ran unwind from the commandline it now just idles on the ping command instead of failing outright
20:56 < spuos> gonna reboot and try again lol
20:56 < sibiria> you don't need to reboot
20:56 < spuos> and RTKit just crashed
20:57 < sibiria> (with the exception of loading new firmware)
20:57 < spuos> so is that bad? 
20:57 < spuos>  figured it would restart any daemons I might have missed 
20:57 < sibiria> you can do that manually as well
20:57 < spuos> anyways I'm sitting on a panic now 
20:57 < avemestr> What is RTKit?
20:58 < spuos> something about trying to access a user address
20:58 < spuos> not a clue, came installed with the sets 
20:59 < spuos>  should I do anything on the panic shell? 
20:59 < avemestr> "RealtimeKit was written by Lennart Poettering <lennart@poettering.net>."
20:59 < avemestr> Just reboot for now probably.
20:59 < spuos> oh hey it watchdogged as you said that 
21:00 < spuos> Poettering 
21:00 < avemestr> Are you on some Apple M-series device?
21:00 < spuos> yep
21:01 < spuos>  why do you ask? 
21:01 < avemestr> That would seem like a good idea to point out, since most defaults to AMD64.
21:02 < spuos> Yeah I'm pretty bad at giving good info to people trying to help 
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21:03 < avemestr> RTKit might also refer to something from Asahi Linux, which is the foundation for the Apple Silicon support on OpenBSD.
21:03 < spuos>  it's uh... taking a while to boot this time 
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21:04 < spuos> never mind
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21:06 < spuos> ok it fixxed itself after rebooting 
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21:09 < spuos> so, no idea what that was about
21:11 < spuos> anyways, any recommendations ideas for what to install for an x session? 
21:14 < sibiria> xenodm, which is part of the base system
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21:16 < ssm_> spuos: I use xenodm and cwm, which are both part of base
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21:17 < ssm_> can be configured very simply; exec cwm in ~/.xsession   put default windows/font config/status bars/xset stuff before your exec cwm line
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21:33 < spuos> yeah I have no idea how to scale this to the high dpi screen properly, everything is tiny. Does anyone know? 
21:34 < avemestr> Perhaps xrandr.
21:34 < avemestr> man xrandr
21:34 < pony> dunno why I pronounce that as x reindeer in my head
21:34 < spuos> Yeah I tried that first 
21:35 < spuos> I thought ran-dir
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21:37 < ssm_> I say X r and r, since it means X resize and rotate
21:37 < pony> ahh
21:37 < pony> I always wondered what randr meant yeah
21:37 < pony> TIL
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21:40 < vortexx> xrandr --dpi set to something high, possibly?
21:40 < spuos> I've also heard x-render, which makes enough sense 
21:40 < thrig> X rand(om) regressions
21:41 < spuos> I tried it actually, but I might have forgot the outpt
21:42 < spuos> nope, nothing 
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21:46 < avemestr> What does xrandr output by itself, what command(s) have you tried and what did xrandr respond to them?
21:47 < avemestr> "I have a problem. I did something. It did nothing." is hard to help with.
21:47 < spuos> it reports the proper resolution and something about 60.00*+
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22:43 < vortexx> spuos: maybe try xrandr --dpi 96, logs from this channel seem to indicate this makes the fonts appear at a readable size
22:43 < vortexx> (I really need to try this in cwm as I usually let GNOME handle dpi stuff
22:43 < vortexx> )
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23:39 < vortexx> it's officially gremlins day... first the fun with a local IP ending up in the violations file, now BIND not listening on the internal IPv4 interface for some reason.
23:39 < vortexx> go on OpenBSD, throw me something else while you're at it
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--- Log closed Sun Apr 28 00:00:04 2024