--- Log opened Tue Apr 30 00:00:06 2024
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00:40 < a1fa> $ dmesg
00:40 < a1fa> ksh: dmesg: Input/output error
00:40 < a1fa> RIP
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00:46 < jrmu> when I run $ ping google.com, I get ping: no address associated with name ; but the strange thing is when I run dig or host, it looks up the DNS records just fine
00:47 < jrmu> I checked /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/hosts, everything looks fine, I can't figure out why name lookup for ping fails, when 1) ping on an IP address works, and 2) name lookup separately works
00:47 < jrmu> Might I have some corrupt ping binary (seems unlikely) or might I have some misconfiguration somewhere (more likely)?
00:47 < jrmu> pf.conf is empty, just the default ruleset
00:48 < jrmu> netcat is able to resolve names properly
00:49 < thrig> dig makes its own DNS requests while ping tends to go through the system resolver
00:49 < jrmu> I set /etc/resolv.conf to use nameserver 8.8.8.8 and nameserver 1.1.1.1
00:50 < jrmu> might resolvd be doing something under the hood I'm unaware of? hmm
00:50 < jrmu> checksum of /sbin/ping matches a clean install, so it's not any issue with ping
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01:10 < xse> does "getent hosts google.com" behaves like ping ?
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03:02 < jrmu> xse: no, it resolves properly like host
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03:17 < jrmu> this is the most puzzling mystery I've ever encountered
03:20 < jrmu> disabling packet filter doesn't help either. /etc/hosts has no abnormal entries in it
03:32 < lts> ipv6 shenanigans?
03:38 < jrmu> ping6 to google works when specifying v6 address $ ping6 2607:f8b0:4023:1000::8a
03:38 < jrmu> but not when using $ ping6 google.com
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04:05 < lts> I can replicate that when /etc/resolv.conf is not readable by all users
04:06 < jrmu> ahh! hmm le tme check
04:06 < jrmu> no, that's not the cause for me, perms are 640
04:06 < lts> Should be 644
04:06 < lts> 640 is not readable by all users
04:06 < jrmu> oops
04:06 < jrmu> yeah fixed it, thank you lts !
04:06 < lts> np
04:06 < jrmu> huh fascinating
04:06 < jrmu> because I ran ping as root and it didn't work previously
04:07 < jrmu> did you test and find that out, or had experience with that in the past?
04:07 < lts> Just a hunch
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04:10 < jrmu> ok thanks thrig , lts , xse 
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10:02 < MiniontobyPI> IcePic: Are you here to continue helping me?
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10:55 < Jadi> I wish I had vscode on OpenBSD :| I'm fine in neovim but vscode would also be nice
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11:49 < Lucas6023> Jadi: you can port it
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12:07 < Jadi> Lucanis6023 have to try. the point is I do not know much about it. just a user. but might try. 
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12:18 < Foxy_> Jadi: you need to port Electron fisrt, good luck ;)
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12:26 < oldlaptop> (the attempt might be a valuable glimpse into the modern-javascript sausage factory)
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12:33 < a1fa> yello
12:33 < zelest> o/
12:33 < a1fa> who thought executing code remotely and unsolicited is a good thing
12:34 < a1fa> the next shit show.. web asm
12:35 < zelest> about:config then change javascript.enabled to false. ;)
12:44 < renaud> and then, enjoy breaking almost every web site.
12:44 < RobbieAB> a1fa: The people running computationally expensive interfaces that were delighted to off-load the cost to the client workstations.
12:44 < RobbieAB> And in fairness, for those people, it was a fantastically good thing.
12:46 < sibiria> i think javascript is great in as far as just controlling already loaded content. it's all the tentacles reaching outside the browser - network, popups, local storage etc., that made it a horror
12:46 < zelest> or the whole single-page idea of it
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12:47 < zelest> renaud, oh I *will* enjoy that. :)
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12:47 < sibiria> js is a fantastic tool for what it was originally intended
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12:48 < zelest> the enshitification of the web is beyond repair though, sadly.. i take it for what it is (shit) and pick the services I use wisely. :)
12:48 < sibiria> yep. mandatory "cyber" hygiene
12:49 < zelest> also, if a site doesn't work without JS, it's broken in the first place.
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12:50 < sibiria> iframes... dynamic page reloads using js... *hard choices*
12:50 < zelest> or simply reload the whole page
12:50 < zelest> it's still 10 times faster than the JS bloat these days
12:51 < sibiria> i understand people's allergy towards full page reloads
12:51 < zelest> i don't
12:52 < zelest> static data is cached client-side anyway.. the page itself should be (partially) cached server-side.. and webserver has keep-alive anyway and the transfer is compressed..
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12:53 < zelest> and 95% of the stuff out there isn't big enough to "we need to offload this to the client" anyway
12:55 < sibiria> i'm currently doing a few small js/html changes on a customer-facing interface editor for $employer's product, and it's just something that'd be a pretty painful experience doing with full page reloads every time a customer rearranges something in the editor
12:56 < vortexx> a1fa: variants of the term DOLE for remote executions of object code was all the rage in the early to mid 90s
12:57 < zelest> sibiria, fair enough, but that's because it's trying to be something it's not. it's an "interface editor" instead of a webpage. :)
12:57 < zelest> which is where the enshitification begins
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12:58 < sibiria> there just isn't a better method to allow customers phrase these interfaces than online in a browser. it wouldn't be feasible for us to sit down with them every time they want to change something, or to build a stand-alone application which submits results to our systems
12:58 < zelest> we realized that web works on all operating systems and all(tm) browsers.. which made it way easier to write "portable code" by simply turning it into a website.. or "web app" :)
12:58 < sibiria> it offers the highest availability for the least amount of complexity and effort
12:58 < zelest> yeah
12:58 < sibiria> previously we stored all interface changes and had users submit them with a button press instead of in real time with every change
12:59 < sibiria> and
12:59 < sibiria>  i dunno if it's because people are the way people are - generally stupid - or if it has something to do with the customer demographic our product is aimed at
12:59 < sibiria> but we had constant streams of complains from people who just failed to submit changes and wondering where things went
12:59 < vortexx> a1fa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgOUaSmXfUU
13:00 < zelest> sibiria, soon the "oh, we screwed up, how do we ctrl-z our changes?" :D
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13:00 < zelest> but yeah, i've seen similar things where people don't understand how to submit
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13:09 < renaud> I would sometimes like a ctrl-z in real life :)
13:11 < solene> I want find / grep in real life
13:11 < solene> s/life/file
13:11 < solene> X_X
13:11 < solene> this is an interesting occurence of reverse dyslexia, I thought it wrote wrong, so I fixed it with what I thought was the right word
13:14 < thrig> dyslexics, untie!
13:14 < sibiria> lysdexics*
13:14 < Tekk>  thrig and here I thought you didn't like perl
13:14 < thrig> my support for python has been true and unwavering over the years
13:15 < sibiria> still going strong at an all-time low level?
13:15 < MiniontobyPI> IcePic: Are you here to continue helping me? Please mention my name when ready
13:15 < sibiria> i don't like python one bit. but sometimes bitter medicine must be had
13:15 < Tekk> Man, even after reading the doc page for "tie" I still have no clue what it does :)
13:15 < Tekk> It's been too long since I wrote perl
13:16 < thrig> oh I used tie recently in a MIDI test perl module
13:16 < Tekk> I think it's like, making all of the subs and variables in a module available as a hash value within the hash you're passing it?
13:16 < solene> I sent a diff to tech@ to report rcctl ls rogue in daily(8), but now I wonder if some people run services that they don't want to automatically start at boot?
13:16 < thrig> https://metacpan.org/pod/Test2::Tools::MIDI
13:16 < Tekk> Hi solene 
13:16 < sibiria> solene: i do
13:17 < solene> hi Tekk 
13:17 < Jadi> Foxy_ oldlaptop oh right... if vscode is Electron its better to forget it. I'm on obsd to get rid of js *apps*s :)
13:17 < sibiria> but it's a bit silly that i have to "force" the service to start just because i keep it disable
13:17 < solene> Jadi: you do not need OpenBSD to get ride of js apps
13:18 < solene> sibiria: I guess you would be bothered to receive a daily mail that the service is running while it shouldn't? :P
13:18 < Jadi> solene right. honestly I started using to learn new things and see new communities. 
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13:18 < sibiria> solene: i am bothered by that :) and one or two other "do-gooder" notifications from daily
13:18 < __gilles> vscode not part of openbsd is sad :-(
13:19 < __gilles> s/not part/not available for/
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13:19 < sibiria> solene: my take on it is that enabled/disabled should only concern itself with auto-start after boot. nothing else
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13:22 < sibiria> and daily checking up on those things makes less sense to me. the user is afterall the one who actively decided to enable, disable, start and stop the services
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15:51 < aaronm04> __gilles: what about vscodium?
15:52 < aaronm04> It's vscode with MS telemetry removed
15:53 < Foxy_> aaronm04: the biggest issue to have vscode/vscodium in ports is to port Electron first !
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15:53 < aaronm04> Anyway, if you're determined to get vscode working, the search term is "electron apps on openbsd" :)
15:53 < solene> Foxy_: we used to have electron :)
15:53 < Foxy_> solene: yes, electron removed in version 7.3 IIRC
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15:55 < Foxy_> but Electron port is ugly, already have a quick look on the old port... and I close my terminal ASAP
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15:57 < thrig> C O O T I E S
15:57 < Foxy_> reason to remove Electron in ports (version 7.3) == "horrible ecosystem" (see /usr/ports/devel/quirks/files/Quirks.pm)
15:58 < ssm_> not supporting electron is a feature
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15:58 < thrig> somewhat disappointing that emacs threw in the towel on the bloat race
15:59 < thrig> meanwhile these Klingons aren't going to blow themselves up
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15:59 < ssm_> we have mg(1), who needs emacs?
16:00 < solene> ssm_: people who need to write accents
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16:09 < miah> we have ed(1) what else do we need?
16:09 < thrig> something that supports filters, for one
16:10 < lts> We have cat(1), you don't really need more
16:10 < miah> (fwiw, i use emacs on openbsd and linux)
16:10 < thrig> gemini://thrig.me/blog/2023/05/15/ex-over-ed.gmi
16:10 < lts> Well, maybe echo(1) would be more suitable
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16:14 < solene> M-x butterfly
16:16 < thrig> these must be TOS klingons given how much they run away
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16:28 < Bradipo> solene: I do accents in nvi by using ctrl-x and a 2 digit hex number. :-)
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16:31 < Bradipo> e.g. ctrl-x c3 ctrl-x a8 will give me an accented e.
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16:42 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: do you keep a mental map of the hex codes or a macro/something
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17:40 < pardis> the input method is not difficult (unless you use that eldritch C-x method), there are plenty of different keyboard layouts plus XCompose
17:40 < pardis> the problem is mg(1) simply does not do utf8
17:40 < pardis> if you send it one of those characters it will not go into your file
17:41 < pardis> this is also the only reason I ever open an editor other than mg
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18:07 < Bradipo> byteskeptical: No, but neither do I know how to type accented e without it.
18:08 < Bradipo> I have no keyboard with accents.  So any characters that I want to type, I have to know the hex.  Search engines find this for me easily.
18:08 < Bradipo> How else would one enter characters that are not on the keyboard?
18:09 < Bradipo> I suppose I could make vi macros that enter them for me.
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18:10 < Bradipo> ascii(7) documents ASCII characters.  Is there a man page for other non-ascii characters?
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18:22 < solene> Bradipo: how do you type kanji?
18:23 < Bradipo> Well, I don't speak/read it, but if I had to, I would look up the hex and use that.
18:23 < Bradipo> Assuming it can be represented that way.
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18:23 < Bradipo> Do there exist special keyboards for that?
18:23 < quinq> I type kanji with ibus
18:25 < Bradipo> solene: How do you type kanji?
18:26 < solene> Bradipo: copy / paste or ibus, or a specific android keyboard from my phone :D
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18:40 < op2> btw, quinq: ibus has never 'stuck' your whole keybord input?  that's the reason i moved to fctx5.
18:41 < op2> i was using ibus + anthy
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18:43 < quinq> op2, to be honest I use it on Linux only
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18:44 < op2> ah :D
18:44 < quinq> But no never happened, though sometimes it doesn't work I have to activate/reactivate a couple times
18:44 < quinq> I also ticked the option “let the system manage they keyboard” or something like that, otherwise it tries to overwrite my keyboard layout
18:44 < op2> to me it randomly hanged, completely breaking keyboard input, and several program didn't like it being killed ^^"
18:45 < quinq> Problem for me with fctx is that it was getting too much in the way, but that was a quick try, maybe I should try again
18:45 < op2> i think i had that option too since i'm using a custom keyboard layout, not sure thought
18:45 < op2> yeah, i had to create a metadata file so it can see my keyboard layout >.>
18:45 < quinq> Yeah, it's buggy I guess
18:45 < quinq> op2, then when I try it again, I'll come to you for help ^^
18:46 < op2> XD
18:46 < op2> i fear i wouldn't be able to re-configure it again!
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18:49 < Bradipo> solene: Yeah, copy/paste works too.
18:49 < Bradipo> But when I'm typing, and especially if the character is used enough, I just memorize the hex and type it as mentioned above using ctrl-x.
18:49 < kodcode> Hello. I am trying to install 7.5 on a BananaPI M5. During the installation I get the following errors: https://clbin.com/LvFNd
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19:21 < aaronm04> Is your sdcard or mmc or whatever it is known to be good?
19:24 < aaronm04> I guess it's eMMC
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19:28 < aaronm04> never mind, it's USB
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20:43 < kodcode> aaronm04: it's a SD card. fdisk -iy on it works, so I am not sure why I get this error
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21:33 < aaronm04> you might have to review the install script to see what exactly it is running that causes that error
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22:12 < Release6890> I could use some design advice. I bought a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon Gen 9 for OpenBSD 7.5 It seems to have as good of hardware support as is available. Unfortunately, I can't seem to move data on or off of it from other non-OpenBSD systems at > 15 MB/s. For LAN Wifi, the network speed does not get above 15 MB/s. For USB external drives rated for
22:12 < Release6890> 1,000 MB/s, I can't get above 3 MB/s when using exFAT.
22:12 < Release6890> The laptop does not have an Ethernet port. I presume I could buy a USB to Ethernet adapter and get full speeds there, but that requires setting up Ethernet for destination devices as well. I could move away from exFAT on the external drive but then I will not be able to use it to share data with non-OpenBSD systems.
22:12 < Release6890> What is the fastest way to transfer data to/from an OpenBSD laptop and other non-OpenBSD systems?
22:15 < Bradipo> That's because exFAT is FUSE or FUSE-like.
22:16 < Bradipo> It would be nice if there were an actual mount_exfat utility but there does not exist such a thing.
22:16 < Bradipo> You could use mount_msdos.
22:16 < Release6890> Yes, that seems to be the problem with exFAT. It requires FUSE and is installed as a package. The mount command is mount.exfat.
22:16 < Bradipo> Yep.
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22:17 < Release6890> Good point. I could go with FAT instead of exFAT, but I really need a lot of files that are > 4 GB in size. Otherwise, that might give better throughput than exFAT.
22:18 < echelon> run linux in vmm and mount it over nfs?
22:19 < sibiria> if "other non-openbsd systems" means just linux, try ext2
22:20 < Release6890> Interesting. I did confirm with `dd` that I can read from the USB device at about 1,000 MB/sec. Would the vmm be able to access the device without a slowdown such that Linux filesystems would run at full speed?
22:21 < Release6890> It becomes less ideal if I have to give up on Windows and only go with Linux, but that is also an options I suppose.
22:23 < sibiria> it'll be faster than the 150 mbit you're seeing for wifi, at least...
22:23 < Bradipo> I wonder how much work it would be to get a real mount option for exFAT?
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22:24 < Bradipo> Require some kernel hacking I imagine for fs structures?
22:24 < sibiria> unfortunately samsung's exfat driver is also GPL, so...
22:24 < Release6890> Well that is something. Thanks! I guess I could try ext2 and then worry about how to read the data on the other systems. For Windows, WSL2 should be able to mount it.
22:25 < Bradipo> Windows might be able to do ext2...
22:25 < sibiria> not natively, but with WSL, yes
22:25 < Bradipo> Kind of a pain, but it's an option I suppose.
22:25 < Release6890> Ok, thanks! That is an option.
22:25 < sibiria> these days there might be a free option as an alternative to Paragon's commercial offers
22:26 < Bradipo> Regarding the exfat driver, cannot it be written from ground up to be BSD?
22:26 < echelon> hmm can you do usb passthrough in vmm?
22:26 < Bradipo> Who do I need to send money to for a mount_exfat(8)?
22:27 < sibiria> echelon: no
22:27 < echelon> oh ok, there goes that idea
22:27 < sibiria> Bradipo: surely, but GPL nazis are waiting to lunge from underneath their rocks, with accusations of "code theft"
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22:28 < sibiria> "rewritten" drivers are often victims of garbage accusations
22:28 < Bradipo> Hmm.
22:28 < Bradipo> GPL sucks, sorry to say.
22:28 < echelon> why hasn't microsoft released it yet
22:28 < sibiria> the code base for the driver isn't large. it's a pretty neat implementation, both samsung's and the one in linux
22:28 < Release6890> It feels like someone else must have bumped into this problem of data on/off a laptop lacking an Ethernet port though. Is there a more common method I missing?
22:29 < echelon> samsung has its own?
22:29 < Bradipo> I usually use mount_msdos...
22:29 < Bradipo> But then I don't have > 4GB files either.
22:29 < sibiria> samsung released a GPL-licensed exFAT driver for linux a couple of years before linux got one
22:29 < sibiria> keyword is: GPL-licensed
22:29 < echelon> Release6890: don't they sell usb-c to ethernet dongles for those laptops?
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22:30 < Release6890> Ok, the use of "mount_msdos" as a routine is helpful to know though.
22:30 < Bradipo> Yeah, usually I just type: mount /dev/sd2i /mnt/dosfs
22:30 < Bradipo> It automatically detects msdos I think.
22:31 < Bradipo> Otherwise mount -t msdos ...
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22:31 < Release6890> Yes, I can go buy the Ethernet dongles. That is definitely a way to go. It feels like that might involve paths though the most tried and true drivers avoiding the filesystem challenges.
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22:32 < echelon> you're introducing a problem that requires a proprietary solution
22:37 < Release6890> Thanks again for all the insights!
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