--- Log opened Fri Jun 28 00:00:00 2024
--- Day changed Fri Jun 28 2024
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04:17 -!- MentalEx- is now known as MentalExcuse
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04:25 -!- moetuning [~Jean-luc@125-168-247-236.sta.wbroadband.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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05:18 -!- adig_ [~default@109.166.138.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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13:30 < jadi> Um... turned on my laptop, complaiend about fsck. Ran it manualy some "Can not red blk"s. Rebooted. Root can login with no issues but when my normal user logs in, I get 
13:31 < jadi> bash: can't load library 'libintl.so' or other... and return to login prompt. 
13:31 < jadi> any ideas?
13:32 < jadi> ok.. found out that its a "bash" issue. root login's with sh. 
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14:49 < jadi> because sh needs  much less libraries I assume
14:50 < phy1729> maybe run pkg_check
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15:24 < IcePic> jadi: sh needs only things present in base system, bash needs stuff from ports
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15:35 < oldlaptop> (k)sh shouldn't need any dynamic libraries at all, being in /bin
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15:37 < oldlaptop> jadi: Based on what you've said so far, I'd wonder about disk failure, and also perhaps would wonder what happened immediately before you "turned on your laptop" - was it not powered off safely?
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16:07 < pixificial> Hello. Apologies for off-topic question, but OpenBSD programmers excel at C programming conventions so here goes. I am developing a C program and it is almost all about strings and files. And in C, you have to error check for most if not all string and file functions. Because of this, almost half my source lines are made up of error checking. Is there something I can change that would elegantly solve 
16:07 < pixificial> the problem while staying as Correct as possible? Here is the perpetuator file: https://codeberg.org/Pixificial/staticpagegen/src/branch/master/staticpagegen.c
16:08 < Bradipo> Use functions that do the checking for you.
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16:08 < Bradipo> That and good data structures.
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16:10 < jadi> phy1729: IcePic thanks for the help. right. switched to ksh and it is working. but still had issues with HDD on the machine and some libs can not be read
16:10 < Bradipo> An example: http://cr.yp.to/lib/stralloc.html and another: https://www.fossil-scm.org/home/file?name=src/blob.c&ci=trunk
16:10 < pixificial> Bradipo: The error checking contains a function, so all the errors are handled with a single extra file. It still takes a huge amount of space though.
16:10 < pixificial> single extra line*
16:10 < jadi> oldlaptop: you are right. HDD issues and damanged files are causing this. It was a power failure. 
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16:12 < Bradipo> pixificial: Also, generally it's simpler to check for success and then just use a generic error message that accesses errno.
16:12 < Bradipo> On anything that is not success.
16:14 < phy1729> pixificial: there's a C channel as well. The sarcastic meme answer is use rust though
16:16 < pixificial> Bradipo: Thank you. I will go through those links a bit, althogh my program does not make use of dynamic memory / heap so it should be simpler.
16:17 < pixificial> phy1729: It is too sarcastic if they tell you to use Rust :).
16:19 < Bradipo> pixificial: Oh, well, your description did say "string and file functions".
16:19 < Bradipo> Arguably the biggest attack vector against C code is mishandled strings.
16:21 < Bradipo> But if you're not reading strings into array or allocated memory then maybe you're fine.
16:23 < pixificial> Bradipo: Here is a snippet of the code. As you see I do utilise a function but even a single line if checking doubles the source lines in the end:
16:23 < pixificial> 		for (i = 0; i < subfils_n; i++) {
16:23 < pixificial> 			if (write(indexfd, "[0|", 3) < 0)
16:23 < pixificial> 				return reterr("write", NULL);
16:23 < pixificial> 			if (write(indexfd, subfils[i], strlen(subfils[i])) < 0)
16:23 < pixificial> 				return reterr("write", NULL);
16:23 < pixificial> 			if (write(indexfd, "|", 1) < 0)
16:23 < pixificial> ...
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16:24 < pixificial> That for loop goes on for 6 more strings, so 6 more reterr(char [], int) calls.
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16:30 < Bradipo> Yeah, there's probably a more efficient way to do that, but you either have to check for errors or not.
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16:49 < IcePic> pixificial: perhaps all those calls could be baked into one writev() call ?
16:51 < IcePic> or bake the strings into one with snprintf() or something, then make one write of that string
16:52 < Bradipo> Maybe he's trying to avoid strings.
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16:55 < Bradipo> Although, I see that line 258 does have snprintf(), so that's not it.
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17:17 < pixificial> IcePic: I haven't heard of writev before, thanks. Just checked it and it is in POSIX.1-2008. Great.
17:19 < pixificial> IcePic: I did think of snprintf actually. I don't know what made me decide this reterr hell is the better option at the time hahah. Will see.
17:20 < IcePic> pixificial: I think baking a string to do one write() would be the "common" choice. Often easier to reason about it that way.
17:20 < IcePic> becomes slightly weird to have 4-5-6-7 super small writes and figure out what to do if next-to-last fails
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17:22 < pixificial> IcePic: Agreed. To snprintf or to writev then..? What should be the determining factor for choosing which function to use here for instance?
17:24 < IcePic> string operations are just calls into libc, so still in your process address space and cheap, whereas multiple write() calls are still syscalls so it would be slightly faster (or easier on the scheduler) to go the snprintf route
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17:33 < thrig> also test with like a full filesystem to see what syscall the error (if any) happens on
17:33 < pixificial> IcePic: But wouldn't writev and snprintf do very similar if not the same amount of syscalls? I don't think writev just calls write multiple times (though I am not sure).
17:36 < IcePic> snprintf isnt a syscall, only a call into libc
17:36 < phy1729> writev is its own syscall
17:42 < IcePic> one could imagine how writev() would be a loop wrapping a bunch of write() calls though, but in this case it isn't
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17:59 < Bradipo> I'm curious how writev avoids being a loop of write()s.
18:00 < Bradipo> It has to loop over each iovec member in the array because each iovec has an iov_base pointer to memory and a length.  There's no guarantee that they are contiguous.
18:01 < Bradipo> Maybe there's some efficient kernel structure that gets passed around for it...
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18:55 < pixificial> IcePic: I know, but it works with syscalls in the background similar to how fopen(3) uses open(2)
18:55 < pixificial> So the question still stands I think.
18:56 < pixificial> snprintf(3) could be using bunch of write(2) calls too.
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19:27 < Bradipo> pixificial: snprintf doesn't write anything anywhere...
19:28 < Bradipo> It just copies memory.
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23:14 < gnubert> Just like to say that previously been using Debian as hobby Os/Daily river at home . But now i have switch to OpenBSD (because internet is scary!) Previously  i did think fvwm was old obsolete useless!. Now, why use any thing else ?.
23:14 < gnubert> Previosly read on internet that OpenBSD packages are old. Tex that Firefox never get any updates and most packages are old! That is far from true. Firefox Emacs Vim and many other is often ahead compare to Debian.
23:14 < gnubert> OpenBSD don't play Netflix , but in my family at tacco friday we watch the Tv set in the livingroom, inte på and 14" laptop.
23:14 -!- monkeybusiness [monkeybusi@2605:6400:441a:3e13:1442:9bc3:4fc0:5352] has joined #openbsd
23:15 < gnubert> Thank you everyone in the OpenBSD community for offering a superb Os.
23:15 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD releases much more often than debian, so *releases* will tend to have newer stuff.
23:15 < oldlaptop> I doubt there's that much of a difference on average between -current ports and sid
23:17 < oldlaptop> There will be the occasional case where a port is stuck behind for some reason or other. (e.g. for a while... I guess we're supposed to call it "KDE Plasma" now? was just gone, because porting kde6 was a huge task for the one heroic Augean-stable-shoveler who does most/all kde/qt porting work)
23:19 < oldlaptop> firefox in particular benefits from having a mozilla developer as an openbsd developer/porter
23:20 < gnubert> I'm just happy my Compaq nc6220 still works, doubt i will try KDE on it ;)
23:27  * oldlaptop definitely wouldn't expect KDE6 on a Pentium M to end well
23:28 < oldlaptop> firefox on i368 probably won't be possible *all* that much longer :|
23:28 < oldlaptop> oh, it already isn't
23:28 < Bradipo> gnubert: I'm a fan of the fvwm in base as well.  The only trouble that I have with it is mastering the concept of the buttonbox.
23:29 < Bradipo> fvwm is highly customizable and just works.
23:32 < gnubert> I don't know why i still use Firefox , old habits!
23:32 < gnubert> Well nice that Mozilla have some one that support OpenBSD :)
23:33  * pony doesn't know which browser to use, so just uses Firefox
23:34 < oldlaptop> There's reeeeally only two now. :|
23:34 < pony> true
23:34 < pony> eventually there will be one I think
23:35 < pony> then the web will be google web
23:35 < oldlaptop> It's impressive Mozilla has made it this far maintaining an independent implementation of GoogVM.
23:35 < oldlaptop> Even Microsoft had to give up.
23:35 < pony> yep
23:35 < phy1729> One pays the other (in theory for deafault search, but probably also to avoid antitrust)
23:35 < gnubert> i only add Key Tab A M Next (CurrentDesk !Iconic) Focus and some Exec.
23:35 < byteskeptical> I mean if you consider they are they main funding source...some would say just one
23:36 < pony> mmm
23:36 < byteskeptical> illusion of choice and all that
23:36 < pony> ya
23:36 < pony> I guess it is already google web
23:39 < gnubert> Quck poll: firefox iridium chrome lynx
23:39 < gnubert> firefox
23:39 < thrig> w3m
23:39 < byteskeptical> ladybird is the only hope
23:39 < gnubert> forgot that onw :(
23:39 < thrig> well, a modified w3m that can't execute programs or do much of anything with the fileysystem
23:39 < byteskeptical> or netsurf
23:41 < byteskeptical> now all we have to do is pool our millions together and fund development for the better part of the next decade at slightly incrementing amounts per year
23:46 < gnubert> Hope that BSD's survive the the new shiny NEW Ai revolution, and that a search still is a personal decision and not a Ai forced.
23:49 -!- DINOWILLIAM is now known as DIDAVISION
23:49 < gnubert> AL 2000
23:55 < Bradipo> Firefox would be much easier to use if they stopped changing all of the useful things about the browser and instead "innovating" where it matters.
23:56 < quinq> =rr
23:56 < thrig> err, but parts of the web spec are they going to throw away?
23:57 < Bradipo> I now have to routinely hack the omni.ja to disable stupid behaviors that (to return to better prior behaviors that they thought nobody cared about).
23:58 < sibiria> ladybird browser holds a lot of promise in terms of truly being neutral and not having commercial interests that encroach on integrity etc.
23:58 < gnubert> fvwm can sometime be , annoying on a laptop when AutoRise enabled!
23:59 < Bradipo> I disable AutoRaise.
23:59 < thrig> I've pretty much only used cwm on laptops, fvwm when I had a "big" monitor on a desktop
23:59 < Bradipo> I only want windows to raise when I want them to raise.
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 29 00:00:29 2024