--- Log opened Sat Jun 29 00:00:29 2024
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00:03 < gnubert> i have not use cwm , perhaps i take a look at it! But i don't wish to get stuck in the keybinding Hell!
00:04 < gnubert> We already have vi.
00:08 < gnubert> Arrow keys is the king :)
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00:13 < gnubert> Really i'm very split between vi and mg, some days i feel mg is more sane ! other day's vi is so much more efficient! it Confuse me and kills my night sleep!
00:15 < gnubert> Quick Poll: vi / mg :)
00:15 < pony> you need vimg!
00:15 < pony> I use neovim
00:17 < gnubert> neovim! Is that a framework ;)
00:18 < pony> it's a fork of vim with lua config and other things
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00:25 < gnubert> Software that pull down scripts from who knows where makes me nervous!
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00:38 < gnubert> I wish i had the skill to build my system in a chain of trust. Visual do i know him? Do i trust him. Does someone i know thrust know's him?
00:45 < pony> software from my cousin vinnie
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00:47 < pony> software from my wifes brother paulie
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00:50 < gnubert> Cool to at least have a name, most plugins and software is just [package manager install ]
00:51 < byteskeptical> pony: doesn't mainline vim now support that most of the neovim features?
00:55 < pony> idk
00:57 < gnubert> i think vim is more on the vim script perl side and neovim more lua, i don't trust any of them! Who knows what they pull down ?
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00:58 < gnubert> Guess both can edit text.
00:59 < sibiria> they can, if you twist their arm sufficiently
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01:04 < gnubert> I only let vi/mg in OpenBSD touch my config's files.
01:05 < tux0r> said "gnu"bert
01:05 < tux0r> also, ed(1) is the standard editor.
01:05 < gnubert> ;)
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01:07 < gnubert> yes but all ed have you can use in vi also 
01:07 < tux0r> no.
01:08 < tux0r> because vi does not aim to be ed-compatible.
01:08 < tux0r> (chances are that your "vi" isn't vi anyway.)
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01:12 < thrig> (my vi isn't vi; I've removed various vi-isms)
01:13 < tux0r> my vi is sam
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01:14 < topcat001> I actually use ed quite a bit :)
01:15 < gnubert> True, ed not visual when edit a file, but as far i know all ex commands in OpenBSD vi is the same as in ed?
01:16 < tux0r> it depends on which version of ed you look at.
01:17 < gnubert> i'm not a regex wizard, but so far all works for me
01:17 < tux0r> ed is not really PCRE-compatible anyway
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01:25 < thrig> ed and ex differ in various ways
01:26 < topcat001> I sometimes use the base vi in ex mode as well.
01:28 < topcat001> It is nice to see the edit history in the terminal. Then I find myself using the same techniques in vi mode as well (use regex instead of cursor movement).
01:33 < gnubert> I found out here there is a vi clone, neatvi with UTF-8 support.
01:33 < gnubert> Might be worth to check outh.
01:33 < gnubert> It builds in a blink on a old laptop.
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01:39 < gnubert> Sometimes you might need to edit utf8 stuff.
01:42 < gnubert> ÅÄÖ
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02:24 < rnkn> I have an anon user w/o password setup for gotsh and I get the security(8) email that login anon has no password; how can I tell security(8) that this is fine?
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02:58 < rnkn> belay that last request; I just read the secuirty script, which confirms the nag
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03:11 < oldlaptop> some ex-es (at least vim's) clear the screen on you, which in some instances defeats the point of using ed
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03:11 < oldlaptop> (nvi/nex at least doesn't do that)
03:14 < oldlaptop> further food for thought can perhaps be found in `ldd /bin/ed` versus `ldd /usr/bin/ex`
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03:36 < rnkn> oldlaptop: look at that bloat! (ex)
03:37 < thrig> but ex supports filters, which are spiffy
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07:25 < remiliascarlet> Sorry for the many joins, my server was acting up.
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07:49 < consus> I need to build golang app for openbsd that still uses syscall()
07:50 < consus> Is there any guide on how to handle this on OpenBSD?
07:50 < consus> It seems that upstream sys/unix still uses syscall() under the hood even for dedicated functions
07:51 < sir-photch> I submitted a PR using sendbug about 10 hours ago but it doesn't show up in the archives of openbsd-bugs. Does that just "lag behind" or did my mail not go through? There was an entry in /var/log/mail... that said it was sent
07:52 < sir-photch> Related: do I need to have a proper sender-address configured for that? Right now, I just had user@hostname, with my actually usable email in the Reply-To field
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07:56 < mischief> sir-photch: maybe greylisted?
07:58 < pixificial> Does anyone know if cp(1) uses _XOPEN_SOURCE or _POSIX_C_SOURCE for PATH_MAX? I am trying to find where they would be defined but there are so many Makefiles.
07:59 < remiliascarlet> Apps are on smartphones. I don't think there is or has been any attempts to make an OpenBSD phone.
08:00 < remiliascarlet> Apart from that, any reason you need to use syscalls in a Go program?
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08:04 < mischief> remiliascarlet: i believe they are suggesting an upstream go library uses it.
08:05 < remiliascarlet> mischief:  I don't think that's the case.
08:05 < IcePic> consus: I think there should be a "recent" version of sys/unix that works, so see if you can ask for a newer version of it?
08:05 < remiliascarlet> I make web backends in Go, works fine on OpenBSD 7.5.
08:07 < IcePic> pixificial: I think you are supposed to call pathconf() to get the value
08:09 < IcePic> consus: from the ports maillist: "As far as most archs are concerned, golang.org/x/sys v0.1.0 and up use
08:09 < IcePic> libc functions instead of syscall() for its own use, so the biggest
08:09 < IcePic> problem for x/sys is with older 'dated' v0.0.0-202xxxxx "
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08:16 < pixificial> IcePic: cp(1)'s cp.c or utils.c source files don't call that function.
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08:17 < consus> IcePic, yeah using latest release
08:17 < consus> weirs
08:17 < consus> *weird
08:18 < consus> the changes for openbsd have been upstreamed a while afo
08:19 < sir-photch> mischief: so it needs moderator approval?
08:23 < mischief> sir-photch: no, greylisting by spamd is automatic
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09:01 < pixificial> Is there a way to get the "You have mail." mesage for multiple mailboxes?
09:02 < pixificial> I have local accounts that run "mutt" as their shell so they are for mail use only.
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09:19 < sir-photch> mischief: I suppose I'll use sendbug to generate the body and send it through my working mail account then...
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10:32 < Posterdati> hi
10:32 < Posterdati> please what is the correct way to use pledge when calling ioctl for WSDISPLAY operations? Thanks!
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11:10 < Posterdati> ehehe
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12:44 < pixificial> Why doesn't OpenBSD core utilities define flags with an unsigned integer and bitwise operators but integers for each flag?
12:44 < pixificial> Asking for styling my own programs and to see if there is any wisdom behind it.
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12:53 < pixificial> For example, why shouldn't I implement the following (from cat.c):
12:53 < pixificial> 1   case 'n': 1     nflag = 1; 2     break; 3 case 's': 4     sflag = 1; 5     break;
12:53 < pixificial> as this:
12:53 < pixificial> 8   case 'n': 1 case 's': 2     flags = flags | opt; 3     break;
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12:54 < pixificial> Ugh, terrible formatting took place.
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14:52 < oldlaptop> rnkn: probably more importantly, there might perhaps be situations in which (say) libcurses won't work (because /usr didn't mount), or would be mildly inconvenient (because TERM isn't set for some reason)
14:53 < oldlaptop> pixificial: Without making a deep survey, I would not be surprised if some utilities fiddle with bitwise operations and some do not. There's a pretty wide variety of "who wrote this?" and "in which decade was this written?" in openbsd userland
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14:55 < oldlaptop> I'd kind of expect most newer stuff not to waste time fiddling with packing stuff into a single 'flags' variable, because that saves approximately no memory, in exchange for making the code slightly harder to read, debug, etc.
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15:01 < pixificial> oldlaptop: Thank you. I will use separate integers. I believe it is simpler for the processor instruction-wise too.
15:02 < pixificial> Fetching an int should be easier than fetching a bit.
15:04 < oldlaptop> Maybe? That's not a guess I would put any faith in without measurement (and I somehow suspect that a situation in which you have contrived a measurable performance difference between packing flags and not is a situation in which you are doing something else very wrong)
15:08 < oldlaptop> realize also that there's generally no "fetching a bit". I could make reasonable-sounding arguments against this intuition (depending on the situation maybe it's only one instruction either way, and maybe your hideous swarm of flags is big enough to be the difference between the working set fitting in cache level N and not)
15:09 < oldlaptop> and I wouldn't trust those without measurement either (perhaps also trawling through the compiler's output, etc.)
15:10 < oldlaptop> generally you should be writing code that is sane, reasonable, and simple first, then doing goofy things to squeeze out performance if and when measurement shows that to be necessary
15:14 < pixificial> oldlaptop: If I am making something that serves both as a library and a program (like curl(1)), should I name options that change the program's behaviour as "project_Xflag" and comment what it does in the header file, or should I name it according to what it does like "project_behaviour"? Simple example: Let's say it determines whether to follow or ignore symbolic links in a directory, should I name 
15:14 < pixificial> this flag "program_Pflag", or "program_ignoresymlinks"? Note that this flag will be set with the "-P" option from the command line.
15:14 < pixificial> oldlaptop: Thank you for the good insight on the previous question.
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15:15 < pixificial> I will simply use ints.
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15:16 < oldlaptop> it seems difficult to imagine a situation in which "$X flag" is clearer than "$behavior"
15:18 < pixificial> Yes, but I was taking OpenBSD's cat(1) as my reference for programming. Then again, cat(1) is a single binary not designed for including.
15:18 < oldlaptop> Very different context, indeed.
15:21 < oldlaptop> (I wouldn't describe curl(1) as a "program that serves as a library" - curl(1) is a wrapper program around the library libcurl. curl(1) probably has symbols named something like "Xflag", and libcurl doesn't: https://curl.se/libcurl/c/curl_easy_setopt.html)
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15:30 < oldlaptop> turns out curl(1) doesn't even have symbols like that: https://github.com/curl/curl/blob/master/src/tool_getparam.c
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15:58 < pixificial> Should I prepend the library/program name to all global variables in the code for the possibility that something else includes it?
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16:00 < thrig> why are there so many globals in your library?
16:03 < oldlaptop> it's a really bad idea to treat a global variable as a public interface
16:04 < oldlaptop> the only way errno could be a better example of What Not To Do (TM) is if you're supposed to assign to it
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23:39 -!- bithackr [~bithackr@ec2-3-130-206-38.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
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23:43 -!- djames [~djames@user/djames/x-9001197] has quit [Quit: My Unrecognized Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 30 00:00:29 2024