--- Log opened Wed Aug 21 00:00:03 2024
--- Day changed Wed Aug 21 2024
00:00 < fro> i imagine redox will end up just like that
00:00 < fro> because it's a stupid idea
00:00 < polarian> agreed.
00:00 < fro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaOS
00:00 < fro> anyway i don't why you're so into this
00:00 < PyR3X> JOS and others still need assembly or C to bootstrap the jvm
00:01 < fro> yeah and redox still has a libc
00:01 < fro> blah blah blah
00:01 < polarian> idk half of me feels its just massive hype and will die down, and half of me feels that rust will genuinely kill C and me writing C right now is completely useless... so... who better to fix the lifetime of the C programming language against than the project which literally is used as a convention for C. Whenever someone asks how to write good C code almost always I hear "read OpenBSD src tree" 
00:01 < polarian> so if OpenBSD was to adopt rust... then C is truly dead imo
00:02 < fro> there is no such thing as good C code
00:02 < pardis> I've been hearing people say "rust is about to kill C" for at least a decade
00:02 < pardis> it's in the same bucket as "wayland is about to kill X"
00:02 < fro> any year now is the year of the linux desktop
00:02 < PyR3X> this conversation happens every decade
00:02 < polarian> pardis: it unfortunately is though... I bet you have a process on your device right now which is written in, or partially in, rust.
00:02 < PyR3X> I'd prefer zig over rust anyway
00:03 < polarian> zig is too javascripty
00:03 < polarian> I would still take zig syntax over java 
00:03 < polarian> s/java/rust/
00:03 < thrig> sndiod init syslogd tmux ksh irssi etc etc nope no rust
00:03 < polarian> thrig: I was hoping you would say firefox 
00:03 < thrig> eww no why would I start that
00:04 < polarian> gotta use the modern browser to live in modern life... and its that or chromium...
00:04 < fro> how much of firefox is written in rust
00:04 < thrig> the modern web went to shitsville years and years ago
00:05 < fro> the internet says 10%
00:05 < fro> i dunno how accurate that is
00:06 < fro> https://4e6.github.io/firefox-lang-stats/
00:06 < fro> oh there we go
00:08 < PyR3X> I don't like that rust doesn't have namespaces in the package system personally
00:08 < polarian> well there is a lot of C++ in there
00:08 < polarian> its no surprise that mozilla is adopting rust seen as it was their developers which founded the rust programming language. Not to mention the fact that rust is not really a true C replacement because it was developed as a replacement for C++
00:09 < PyR3X> coming from Java this shocked me when playing with rust
00:09 < polarian> to replace C, you must have a simple programming language which is truly better... which rust is not simple in the slightest 
00:09 < polarian> go would be a candidate for a C replacement due to its simplicity, but the GC still makes it unfavourable for osdev
00:10 < polarian> PyR3X: you wrote Java?
00:10 < PyR3X> for 20+ years yeah
00:10 < polarian> I am sure I will be shot for saying it but I actually am quite partial to Java... its performance is far from ideal, its resource usage is also far from ideal... but the ease of development and organisation is just unmatched
00:11 < polarian> I have not tried a single language which is as organised as Java code 
00:11 < polarian> sure its extremely verbose :P
00:11 < PyR3X> I like Java and I port java stuff to openbsd
00:11 < PyR3X> and rust is a fine language and I keep an eye on what they are doing on redox
00:12 < PyR3X> I should say make openbsd packages for java things I use
00:12 < echelon> what do you need to port in java
00:12 < polarian> I dislike kotlin... I feel its a downgrade from Java...
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00:13 < PyR3X> Java has now caught up to the featurs I cared about in kotlin
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00:14 < PyR3X> I'm also a huge fan of OSGi a real component models
00:14 < polarian> its done what rust did and tried to remove boilerplate and verbosity, and I hate it
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00:15 < polarian> surely more lines of code and being able to clearly see what the code is doing than less lines of code but the code is more ambigious 
00:15 < polarian> ambiguous 
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00:16 < PyR3X> well I'm against compiler hacks like lombok but I do like language features in the later JDKs like records
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00:18 < echelon> so is there a way to do dynamic aliasing in opensmtpd?
00:18 < echelon> not sure what the correct term for it would be
00:21 < thrig> what would that mean?
00:23 < echelon> basically, i want something like craigslist where the sender and receiver are never able to see each other's actual addresses
00:24 < thrig> that could be done with regular aliases, and automated with scripts or something
00:24 < thrig> rewriting the sender will be a bit more complicated
00:25 < echelon> hmm
00:26 < polarian> PyR3X: I like the improvement to switch case (-> {}) which made the break keyword redundant which was a source of so many bugs in my code...
00:27 < polarian> im also against lombok
00:27 < polarian> I haven't used records much... but I like the concept
00:27 < polarian> this has went offtopic tho :)
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04:09 < remiliascarlet> fro: "change the name to jOpenBSD" I think your average Javascript developer will go with a name like "OpenBSD.js".
04:10 < remiliascarlet> polarian: LLVM itself always takes forever to compile, let that sink in.
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11:29 < alx^> Heyall, I'm setting up CARP on two OpenBSD boxes that have the same config.
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11:29 < alx^> Right now, both boxes can't be connected at the same time (they *really* have the same config, IP, etc.)
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11:29 < alx^> Just read the whole CARP page on openbsd.org, it's pretty clear, but just 2 questions remain
11:30 < alx^> Can I set the carp device (e.g. 'carp0', 10.0.0.1) to have the same IP as the network device I'll add as 'carpdev' (e.g. 'em0', 10.0.0.1) ?
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11:31 < alx^> And what's the purpose of 'state', if advskew is what determines the master/backup state for carp devices ?
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11:36 < IcePic> alx^: carp should be a separate ip from the "main" ip that each box uses
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11:37 < IcePic> since the carp ip will jump around depending on state, if the two boxes are to be able to run ntp, send logs, mails whatever then this can't depend on the carp ip, or the secondary (current backup box) will not be useable
11:39 < IcePic> and no, even if you could set the same ip on carp0 as on em0, this would confuse the switch when the ip suddenly changes the mac address, since carp devices do not share the mac-addr of the parent interface they are on
11:39 < IcePic> the more security stuff the switch has, the bigger the chance that it would think the box was trying to spoof something and stop working
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11:42 < alx^> IcePic: I see, it makes sense, thanks for the details
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12:53 < quinq> Hummm
12:53 < quinq> A partition got full on one of my systems
12:53 < quinq> Is it possible to see somehow when that happened?
12:53 < zelest> maybe /var/log/messages?
12:54 < quinq> (I mean in retrspect, I don't have any monitoring system explicitely enabled)
12:54 < quinq> zelest, good point
12:54 < zelest> assuming something complains/logs when it can't write
12:54 < quinq> Although that was /var xD
12:54 < zelest> Doh!
12:54 < quinq> oh well
12:54 < quinq> 2024-08-20T19:00:06.839Z fifth /bsd: uid 638 on /var: file system full
12:54 < zelest> Isn't some of it reserved or so?
12:54 < quinq> Perfect :)
12:54 < zelest> Ah
12:55 < quinq> Thanks
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12:57 < quinq> Actually was in the log before, 2024-08-20T11:22:48.079Z fifth /bsd: uid 638 on /var: file system full
12:57 < zelest> :D
12:58 < quinq> I should use a single / fs.
12:58 < sibiria> you should not
12:58 < sibiria> HEATHEN
12:58 < quinq> On a server, the biggest partition is /home (defaults), should have fixed
12:58 < quinq> sibiria :>
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12:59 < zelest> In OpeBSD, I've learned that /var should be biggest :P
12:59 < quinq> yeah
12:59 < zelest> OpenBSD*
12:59 < quinq> HopeBSD
12:59 < zelest> or like this:
12:59 < zelest> /dev/sd0e      1.9G    1.0G    831M    56%    /var
12:59 < zelest> /dev/sd0i      6.9G    261M    6.3G     4%    /var/postgresql
12:59 < quinq> yeah
12:59 < sibiria> i keep nothing in /var besides a few logs. but if i ran mariadb or postgresql on a production thingy i'd bump it up
13:00 < sibiria> yeah or just make that a file system of its own
13:00 < quinq> I have a “big” /var/www
13:00 < sibiria> every guy says that
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13:00 < quinq> Listen, last time it was very cold
13:01 < sibiria> valid excuse, accepted
13:01 < sibiria> have there been any talk on the mailing lists about progressing openbsd's file system towards something modern since the last move when softdep was killed?
13:01 < sibiria> has there been*
13:02 < quinq> (no idea from here)
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13:22 < polarian> remiliascarlet: I am aware, when I was younger I tried gentoo for about 6-12 months, I eventually gave up because recompiling gtk and llvm took forever, plus not to mention the price of electricity you are burning to compile all this stuff every single time you want to change a use flag
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13:34 < piroko> I used to run gentoo on my ppc macbook pro back in college since at the time it was the only linux that would run on it. I fondly remember using emerge as a procrastination tool. "can't write this paper, openoffice has an update!"
13:34 < piroko> cue me fighting compile errors and recompiling for 4 hours straight
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13:34 < IcePic> ..but you learn so much by looking at gcc lines woshing by..
13:35 < piroko> I mean honestly figuring out how to fix random compile errors ended up helping me when I started writing C professionally
13:35 < piroko> but I don't know if it was worth it
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13:58 < avemestr> piroko: Primagen has a nice short tangential to that experience here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZFi-LTpUGHA
13:59 < avemestr> "Learning happens when everything goes wrong and you figure it out"
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14:05 < avemestr> sibiria: There's a bunch of things going on if you search for vfs on -tech.
14:06 < avemestr> sibiria: Most of it seems to be cleaning up stuff, though.
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14:09 < avemestr> sibiria: I'm not sure what modern stuff you would like to see, though.
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14:31 < remiliascarlet> polarian: You have no idea how long it takes to compile Qt6 then. The compile times are so much worse compared to Qt5!
14:31 < sibiria> avemestr: something that's fast and also allows for shrinking
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14:32 < remiliascarlet> On a ThinkPad X200, it takes maybe 1 day to compile Qt5, and 2 weeks to compile Qt6. It's this much worse now.
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14:43 < polarian> remiliascarlet: which is exactly why binary packages/ports are useful
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14:48 < remiliascarlet> Yes, but somebody has to compile it in order for the "binary" packages to exist.
14:50 < avemestr> I'm pretty sure that the machine compiling qt6 for OpenBSD is not a 16 year old laptop.
14:55 < polarian> remiliascarlet: big compile servers :P
14:55 < polarian> s/compile/build/
14:55 < polarian> avemestr: but but you can pull 0.0001% more performance if you compile it yourself for your specific microarch and remove redundant features
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14:57 < avemestr> :-)
14:57 < polarian> also compiling from source does not increase security by much... unless you read the entire source code, and the build scripts to ensure nothing malicious is within the codebase... which you likely wont... so there is little reason to compile from src other than you need a newer version not in the port tree, or need to modify the port to your liking...
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14:58 < polarian> the entire xz drama shows just how the "its open source therefore secure" mentality doesn't work
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14:58 < remiliascarlet> I don't like reading the source code of 98% of the software out there, because their code just sucks.
14:58 < polarian> then dont use it :P
14:58 < remiliascarlet> Makes me depressed for being a software developer.
14:58 < oldlaptop> polarian: Consider that *nobody would have had any chance whatsoever of finding that* if it weren't open-source.
14:58 < oldlaptop> You'd never have known.
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14:59 < polarian> oldlaptop: sure open source gives you the ability to audit the code, but you also got to bare in mind a lot of open source projects aren't corporate... if the xz drama happened within a corporate codebase they would be sued for millions in damages
14:59 < oldlaptop> Probably not, because nobody would ever find out.
15:00 < remiliascarlet> I read OpenBSD source code, I know what it does. I read suckless source code, I know what it does. I read source code written by trusted friends or even myself (surprisingly), I know what it does. I read source code of soydevs, I instantly regret I decided to read the source code.
15:00 < polarian> oldlaptop: they do eventually... oracle has been sued many times for it
15:00 < polarian> in many countries you have the right to reverse engineer :P
15:00 < remiliascarlet> Nice, posted exactly at 00:00:00!
15:00 < polarian> remiliascarlet: where tf are you lol
15:00 < polarian> its 4pm for me
15:00 < remiliascarlet> polarian: You forgot? Japan.
15:00 < polarian> oh right
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15:01 < oldlaptop> I would be interested to see your source for a single lawsuit about a hostile actor sneaking backdoors into Oracle's codebase without its knowledge.
15:01 < polarian> OpenBSD source code is clean!
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15:02 < remiliascarlet> I'm used to this weird habbit of coding at night. Since I've removed all plant foods, sugars, and everything else that doesn't come from an animal from my diet, I have consistent energy for 20 hours a day without getting tired.
15:02 < phy1729> remiliascarlet: I'm significantly less likely to be ok with off-topicness when it has terms like soydev. I'd appreciate it if anything that even approaches political would be avoided.
15:03 < polarian> remiliascarlet: hate veganism, or dieting? lol
15:03 < remiliascarlet> phy1729: At what point did I mention anything political?
15:03 < remiliascarlet> polarian: Not necessarily, it just works best for me.
15:03 < polarian> I think the political thing was directed towards me...
15:04 < phy1729> Let's just stick to technical things and not people's diets
15:04 < eea> given all the recent M$ oopsies, it has made love my openbsd systems all the more :)
15:04 < sibiria> what about the term "soydev". it sits in between diet and technical stuff
15:04 < sibiria> can we unravel that?
15:04 < phy1729> sibiria: no
15:05 < polarian> as for the reading of source code, its one of the major reasons I love OpenBSD... proactively auditing and rewriting code to keep it clean and maintainable, unlike the likes of Linux which is sprawling (there is a graph of SLOC for Linux and in recent years its skyrocketed), how do you keep something secure and functional if there is too much code to review?
15:05 < remiliascarlet> sibiria: It's not a literal term. It's an internet slang for someone who larbs as a software developer, but writes awful, bloated mess of a codebase.
15:06 < polarian> remiliascarlet: its also considered derogatory 
15:06 < oldlaptop> (raw line count in openbsd's kernel has gone up a fair bit lately, for one of the same reasons)
15:06 < Bradipo> remiliascarlet: So what do you eat?
15:06 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: Please stop.
15:06 < polarian> eating stuff can be #openbsd-social no?
15:06 < Bradipo> Ok, fine.
15:07 < remiliascarlet> Bradipo: Jeez, what's wrong here this time?
15:07 < Bradipo> I'm not sure.  I was just curious.
15:07 < remiliascarlet> Oops, tagged the wrong person.
15:07 < remiliascarlet> oldlaptop: Jeez, what's wrong here this time?
15:07 < oldlaptop> The same thing. Please stop.
15:08 < remiliascarlet> Stop with what?
15:08 < remiliascarlet> All I did was answering a question.,
15:09 < sibiria> oldlaptop :D i think you're "outnumbered" this time
15:10 < sibiria> best just roll your eyes and go have a coffee, and it will have died out when you're back
15:10 < sibiria> can't win every battle
15:10 < phy1729> sibiria: please just drop it
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15:10 < sibiria> i stopped discussing the term over 5 minutes ago :)
15:12 < Bradipo> But I think this much is true.  All code sucks.  Very little software can be considered securely written.  As remiliascarlet points out, someone else's code always sucks.  That doesn't mean that it cannot be reviewed for security flaws, it just means that it's not a silver bullet.
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15:18 < remiliascarlet> Bradipo: Since there are people here who don't want to hear my answer to your question, I instead sent it you by private message.
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15:29 < GnarledHorn> For those I asked about forum software - I'm working to get FlaskBB installed. I've built Python 3.11 using the patches from ports. Pillow has some additional system dependencies, but I need to update this machine to the latest snapshot first in order to pull the dependencies in. I'll report back later this week with more progress
15:29 < GnarledHorn> The last official release (2.0.0) was several years ago but the github repository remains active. It has fewer dependencies than the other options I surveyed 
15:29 < sibiria> that sounds like the opposite of compact/light-weight
15:30 < sibiria> having to build python on your own
15:31 < GnarledHorn> I don't want a system python on this machine. One could simply pkg_add it and get on with life
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16:08 < highplainsdruid> i see there are a lot of old xeon machines on ebay with nvidia graphics cards
16:08 < highplainsdruid> are they capable of displaying any kind of basic text mode console on openbsd?
16:09 < highplainsdruid> generic VESA drivers or something
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16:09 < sibiria> they can all function as text console and almost all of them as a basic VGA software framebuffer
16:09 < highplainsdruid> righteous
16:09 < highplainsdruid> thank you
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16:13 < remiliascarlet> If it's Nvidia, you can be guaranteed it won't work on OpenBSD. At least, not until Nvidia open sources their (older) drivers.
16:13 < sibiria> openbsd has drivers for more or less all of the old nvidia stuff
16:14 < sibiria> it's the new stuff we have nothing but "fallback support" for
16:14 < highplainsdruid> i just need it to be a router/server so if it can give me enough text mode to install the os and get networking/ssh going i'm good
16:14 < sibiria> man nv <-
16:14 < highplainsdruid> thanks
16:14 < brynet> If it's a sever, X drivers are irrelevant.
16:14 < sibiria> ^ also this
16:14 < brynet> It will just use the vga text mode or if it's new enough, UEFI framebuffer.
16:15 < sibiria> if you use X server-client terminology, that is
16:15 < sibiria> on the console you will get basic VGA/text mode
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16:16 < remiliascarlet> sibiria: Nvidia is the reason why I can't hook my ThinkPad P50 to any video out port, because Lenovo thought it was a good idea to hard wire all video out with the exception of eDP to the Nvidia card. Only eDP is on Intel HD Graphics.
16:17 < sibiria> that's a shame. in my opinion most lenovo products are overpriced shit these days
16:17 < sibiria> buy them used instead, take over other people's problems :p
16:18 < remiliascarlet> The ones I have are all used.
16:18 < sibiria> my work computer is a t495. i can't believe lenovo priced it at over $1000
16:19 < highplainsdruid> i'm using a t550 i bought used probably 4 or 5 years ago now
16:19 < highplainsdruid> i've dropped it so many times
16:19 < highplainsdruid> i love it
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16:19 < highplainsdruid> i am getting to the point where i'm ready to upgrade to a faster machine but i'm going to use this until it breaks or i really really get sick of its slowness
16:21 < remiliascarlet> My oldest is a T43, and my newest is a P50, and I have many in between them. With 2 exceptions, all of them run OpenBSD.
16:21 < sibiria> my t495 was a "refurb" as well, for $350. for *that* price tag i think it's an alright machine
16:21 < remiliascarlet> 1 of them is NetBSD, and another one is FreeBSD.
16:21 < highplainsdruid> i think i paid $250 and i got a docking station and dual batteries
16:21 < highplainsdruid> can work all day still
16:22 < highplainsdruid> the docking station is great.  i use it as my desktop at home
16:22 < remiliascarlet> The P50 was the most expensive at 25,000 yen. Everything else was somewhere between 4,000 yen and 15,000 yen.
16:22 < highplainsdruid> i don't really like a dedicated desktop anymore, i like having the ability to yank it from the docking station and pick up where i left off somewhere else
16:23 < remiliascarlet> I have a desktop, I just SSH into it when I'm outdoors.
16:23 < remiliascarlet> Because Wireguard.
16:24 < highplainsdruid> do you get acceptable X forwarding performance over wifi?
16:24 < remiliascarlet> But the reason why I got myself a P50 was for game development, which requires better hardware than an X200 for example.
16:25 < remiliascarlet> I have all my computers hooked on ethernet at home.
16:25 < remiliascarlet> But not sure about X forwarding, never did that.
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16:27  * oldlaptop would note that the definition of "old nvidia stuff" for purposes of "openbsd has drivers for it" is *really* old
16:28 < oldlaptop> 2008 or so, as I read nv(4)
16:28 < sibiria> it goes up to mid-to-late 2000s
16:30 < oldlaptop> highplainsdruid: re X forwarding over wi-fi: IMO not really, for most clients nowadays.
16:31 < oldlaptop> Old-fashioned stuff (xlib, xaw, motif, and in a rather different category Tk) will do relatively well, but gtk or qt will generally be pretty painful over any wi-fi connection openbsd will drive (and probably over most real-world wi-fi no matter the drivers)
16:31 < remiliascarlet> How about Fltk?
16:32 < oldlaptop> I'd be pleasantly surprised.
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16:37 < thrig> wifi likes to drop packets
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16:39 < oldlaptop> latency in ideal conditions starts at a cool order of magnitude or so more than ethernet also
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16:49 < remiliascarlet> WiFi is a constantly changing standard that keeps changing for no reason.
16:50 < remiliascarlet> Meanwhile, ethernet is way older than WiFi, and barely any changes (if at all) in the meantime.
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16:53 < oldlaptop> Ethernet has (arguably) an easier job - and it in fact *has* gone through lots of revisions over the past twenty years or so. Partly this is less visible at an end-user level because the bandwidth limitations of even >20-year-old 1000baset are only just starting to become relevant to relatively large numbers of end users.
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16:56 < oldlaptop> Besides all the variety of standards for >1gbit ethernet, note that there exist, or at least used to exist, multiple competing standards for *gigabit* ethernet just over twisted-pair. (The one that didn't need cat6 seems to have won.)
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17:08 < thrig> early ethernet autonegotiate was crappy, back in the 90s. I had a switch with 10-only 100-only and autonegotiate ports, and sometimes you had to fiddle with the duplex
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17:10 < eea> back in the days of dip switches and scsi ids
17:12 < miah> even in recent times, the cisco autoneg stuff can take minutes with some systems
17:12 < miah> to the point where you need to enable 'portfast'
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17:13 < miah> i finally ditched my last cisco switch here. my linux system would frequently boot and be in full functional desktop before the ethernet was finalized
17:13 < thrig> cisco has always been a fan of special things, like 'fixup smtp' that breaks ESMTP
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17:15 < leah2> eughhhhh
17:15 < leah2> that fucking crap
17:16 < Noisytoot> X230/T440p/W541 are the last good thinkpads. Anything newer has bootguard so won't work with coreboot.
17:17 < miah> i frequently get 'mocked' by nonnerds about my thinkpad from ~2012. "your computer is so old. can you even do anything on that?"
17:18 < leah2> if i didnt need a browser, i'd be happy with my x220
17:18 < Noisytoot> I use an x200
17:18 < miah> i have a x120e
17:19 < miah> its 'fine' apart from the fact that the bios has a allow list for wifi cards
17:19 < miah> and sadly no coreboot
17:19 < miah> but openbsd runs great on it
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17:31 < avemestr> highplainsdruid: Depending on the electricity cost where you live, the old Xeons will be in a range from "bad idea" to "a really bad idea". Especially if it's just for router duty.
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17:32 < miah> get a nuc instead
17:35 < remiliascarlet> I'm happy with my X200 and T400 too, but as I said, I went into game development, so more beefy hardware is required.
17:36 < remiliascarlet> I make a custom game engine in OpenGL (I tried Vulkan, but ended up destroying it), so at least I'm not dependent on a specific OS.
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19:24 < TommyC> remiliascarlet: how'd you end up destroying Vulkan? O_o
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19:34 < ssm_> vulkan is hard
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19:55 < topcat001> Spock would be sad
19:57 < IcePic> that year when everyone was arguing about if the dress was white/gold or purple he just died from how illogical it all was
19:58 < thrig> Einstein killed vulkan
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20:23 < ssm_> I built a port with debug information, but when running the port though egdb I get `warning: the debug information found in "/usr/local/bin/.debug/ffmpeg.dbg" does not match "/usr/local/bin/ffmpeg" (CRC mismatch).`. I assume I need to reinstall the port, though `make update` won't reinstall the port, and `make reinstall` wants to remove all forward dependencies first (which for ffmpeg there are a lot). Any solutions?
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20:27 < ssm_> okay, `pkg_add -r -Dunsigned -Dinstalled /path` worked, though it's a bit tedious to do that every time
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20:28 < Lucas> ssm_: you can also do `make INSTALL_DEBUG_PACKAGES=Yes install`
20:28 < Lucas> or reinstall if you already installed it
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20:29 < ssm_> Lucas: I did that, but that just installed the debug symbols and didn't reinstall the ffmpeg package for some reason
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20:34 < Lucas> doesn't need to
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20:35 < ssm_> well, apparently it did, because the CRC mismatch went away as soon as I reinstalled
20:35 < Lucas> if the main package is already installed, that is
20:36 < Lucas> oh, you build your debug symbols but tried to run against an already-installed ffmpeg?
20:36 < Lucas> s/build/built/
20:37 < Lucas> in that case, yes, you need to reinstall, because the symbols are tied to your build
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20:40 < ssm_> Yes, that's why I needed to reinstall ffmpeg, but make update wasn't doing it
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20:45 < Lucas> if you didn't change the version at all, that's the case
20:45 < Bradipo> You have to put a REVISION so it will upgrade.
20:45 < Lucas> update will only update if it detects a higher version
20:45 < Lucas> so yes, if you didn't change the software version, you need to bump REVISION
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20:46 < Bradipo> Right, good point.  I usually only bump REVISION if the software version is the same.
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21:27 < highplainsdruid> electricity is cheap and my climate is cold, luckily
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21:35 < ssm_> Lucas: bumping revision without adding any sort of patch seems... wrong, normally `make update` is smart enough to reinstall the same version when abi is broken or deps are updated even without a revision change
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21:35 < ssm_> I mean pkg_add -u does it all the time (reinstalling the same version)
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21:37 < phy1729> pkg_add -u does it because a dependency changed. See pkg_info -S foo  for the full update signature
21:38 < ssm_> right, so I guess I have to use pkg_add -r for this
21:38 < ssm_> or bump the revision (I'd rather do the former)
21:38 < phy1729> iirc there's a make reinstall
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21:41 < pardis> bumping the revision has the added benefit that pkg_info clearly shows you have a different package from another system with the standard version
21:42 < pardis> I used to add strings to my REVISIONs to say what I changed if I was just making a package locally, but a couple of releases ago they changed it so it barfs if you try
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22:08 -!- xlymian [~user@modemcable212.249-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:10 -!- jalf [~bendavies@224.186.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
22:12 -!- sroso [~sroso@user/SrOso] has joined #openbsd
22:13 -!- sroso [~sroso@user/SrOso] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
22:13 -!- sroso [~sroso@user/SrOso] has joined #openbsd
22:13 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:14 -!- sroso [~sroso@user/SrOso] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
22:14 -!- sroso [~sroso@user/SrOso] has joined #openbsd
22:23 -!- gknux [~gknux@user/galaxy-knuckles/x-3015990] has quit [Quit: ....and i am outta here....]
22:24 -!- breavyn [~breavyn@user/breavyn] has joined #openbsd
22:27 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd
22:32 -!- om_ [~om@23.252.10.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
22:36 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:44 -!- om [~om@23.252.10.125] has joined #openbsd
22:45 -!- om is now known as Guest7908
22:46 -!- zimmer [~zimmer@user/zimmer] has joined #openbsd
22:52 -!- gknux [~gknux@user/galaxy-knuckles/x-3015990] has joined #openbsd
22:54 -!- scain [~scain@2603:8080:b104:4e00:45cf:678b:a7f:b897] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
22:58 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd
23:01 -!- fro [fro@humpty.dance] has joined #openbsd
23:02 -!- Guest7908 [~om@23.252.10.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:13 -!- Echoz [~chris@user/echoz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:14 -!- artmdl [~art5456@d172-218-174-94.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:15 -!- Echoz [~chris@user/echoz] has joined #openbsd
23:21 -!- om [~om@23.252.10.125] has joined #openbsd
23:21 -!- om is now known as Guest5791
23:23 -!- housemate [~housemate@120.21.75.47] has joined #openbsd
23:25 -!- Guest5791 [~om@23.252.10.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:31 -!- housemate [~housemate@120.21.75.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:32 -!- Bradipo [~Bradipo@50.77.44.29] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:38 -!- drkDark [~dark@45.32.176.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:38 -!- ripsum [~richard@192.248.144.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
23:42 -!- om [~om@23.252.10.125] has joined #openbsd
23:43 -!- drkDark [~dark@2001:19f0:7402:dc9:5400:4ff:fef1:5cd8] has joined #openbsd
23:43 -!- om is now known as Guest5059
23:44 -!- ripsum [~richard@192.248.144.158] has joined #openbsd
23:51 -!- Guest5059 [~om@23.252.10.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:58 -!- om [~om@23.252.10.125] has joined #openbsd
23:59 -!- om is now known as Guest9086
--- Log closed Thu Aug 22 00:00:14 2024