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05:49 < remiliascarlet> echelon: "body weight training supplement" This is 100% going to be a man made drug, can't recommend it.
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05:50 < echelon> thanks doc
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06:47 < xzdx> does anyone wanna see something stupid I made
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06:48 < xzdx> https://github.com/X8X-XZDX/echo-compile
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09:16 < vortexx> Zerock: you could try using tcpdump to see if the nfs packets are jumping interface, having two interfaces with the same ethernet address could well be the cause
09:16 < byteskeptical> \q
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09:19 < IcePic> Zerock: if you kill a process with -9, it will die inasfar as it will not consume cpu anymore, but if it is stuck in a system call, this "death" will not occur until it returns from the call, which can be "never" depending on which call it is
09:21 < IcePic> but having same mac address towards a more-or-less intelligent switch will often have bad consequences
09:22 < IcePic> Sun hardware used to have same mac on all interfaces, but the assumption there was that those interfaces would never be on the same collision domains anyhow
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11:13 < martian67> IcePic: they also loved to do weird shit like not have a burned in MAC address, you had to set it in the OS
11:14 < IcePic> martian67: it came with the battery-backed clock, so when battery went out, the "host id" from which mac-addresses were generated was lost
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11:25 < Zerock> you are correct that I'm running Sun hardware :)
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11:28 < sibiria> makes me think of some of Sega's arcade systems, where many of the games were stored in battery-backed SRAM, eventually killing the entire cartridge if the battery ran out
11:29 < Zerock> wow
11:29 < Zerock> I knew of Nintendo cartridges using batteries for the save data, but I'd never heard of using volatile RAM for the game data itself
11:29 < Robbieab> martian67: I am pretty sure Broadcom currently have some cards where the MAC is set in the firmware
11:29 < sibiria> Zerock: they certainly were "unique"!
11:30 < Robbieab> And we have also seen Intel cards in some of the HP gear that can't PXE boot because they don't have a MAC until the OS comes up. 
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11:30 < sibiria> eventually hardware hackers solved the problem by reverse-engineering the schematic and coming up with solutions to write game dumps back into the SRAM with new battery
11:30 < Robbieab> That last one took some fun debugging.
11:31 < Zerock> sibiria: that's good. bless ROM dumpers. I am in ROM hell with another sparc system right now
11:31 < martian67> Robbieab: well, it’s always set in firmware, just a matter of where exactly
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12:25 < remiliascarlet> Zerock: Thankfully these batteries are replaceable.
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12:27 < anexit> how can I add a ntp server to my dhcp settings file?
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12:52 < Zerock> remiliascarlet: batteries? my issue is with the boot PROM, not the NVRAM
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13:18 < tercaL> https://ozgurkazancci.com/down/openbsd_puffy.jpg
13:19 < sibiria> cute. is it made from plaster? did you sculpt it?
13:22 < tercaL> sibiria: Thank you. Made from filament, by my 3D printer; Ender 3 V3 SE.
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13:27 < Robbieab> martian67: Many NICs have it burnt into the silicon, AIUI.
13:28 < Robbieab> anexit: option ntp-servers ip-address [, ip-address ...]; per the current docs
13:29 < martian67> Robbieab: i doubt it, because that would mean every single chip is custom?
13:29 < martian67> and that would make it ridiculously expensive
13:29 < sibiria> this is my server guardian: https://i.imgur.com/UOQeOW3.jpeg
13:29 < sibiria> (you will excuse the mess)
13:31 < Robbieab> martian67: I'm not sure how exactly they actually do it, I just know there was some surprise and irritation when the Raptor Talos crew discovered that they needed to check they collected the MAC address before wiping the broadcom firmware when working on a replacement copy.
13:31 < martian67> chips can be cheap because you make a trillion of them, all exactly the same
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13:32 < martian67> sibiria: cute :)
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13:35 < sibiria> martian67: https://www.etsy.com/se-en/listing/620538807/yellow-globe-fish-openbsd-amigurumi
13:35 < sibiria> unfortunately she (or etsy) really hiked the price...
13:36 < martian67> people vastly underestimate the time it takes to make hand crafts like that
13:36 < sibiria> was $30 when i bought mine two years ago
13:36 < martian67> there is a reason that the industrial revolution started with cloth and clothing
13:36 < martian67> hand making anything cloth related is insanely time consuming
13:37 < martian67> i bet that thing takes hours per blowfish
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13:38 < martian67> i doubt the price is unfair or a cash in sibiria, just a reality of the labour that goes into it
13:39 < sibiria> i'm sure she has bills to pay
13:40 < martian67> sibiria: people balk at like $3000 for a hand quilted blanket
13:41 < martian67> but if you do the math, its often less than minimum wage vs the hours put in
13:41 < IcePic> My wife made me this one: http://c66.it.su.se:8080/blowfish/dsc02524.jpg
13:41 < martian67> the economics of clothing are pretty insane, its no overstatement to say machines made that sorta thing literally 100s of times cheaper
13:41 < sibiria> i would balk at the idea of spending $3000 on a blanket, when a $35 industrialized one will do the same job in a practical sense
13:42 < martian67> sure
13:42 < Zerock> you wouldn't if that was the only way to get a blanket
13:42 < martian67> but what i mean is there is nothing particularly outrageous about the price
13:42 < martian67> from an inputs perspective
13:42 < Zerock> there's a reason everyone just wore dresses for the longest time.
13:42 < sibiria> in what alternative universe is the only solution to warm yourself up spending $3000 on a blanket? :D
13:42 < sibiria> in the places where your life depends on a blanket, they don't cost $3000, but $3
13:43 < martian67> sibiria: a world before machines made it cheapo
13:43 < IcePic> spend $3000 on a 16-core mips64 and compile kernels all day!
13:43 < martian67> which was most of human history :)
13:43 < sibiria> yes and back then inflation, capitalism and profiteering wasn't a "thing"
13:43 < Zerock> inflation wasn't, but the price compared to a day's earnings was comparable
13:44 < sibiria> a hand-woven poncho from colombia costs nothing over there and is as common as napkins in europe. but someone will import them and sell them for hundreds of dollars *here*
13:44 < martian67> it costs a lot over there relative to what people earn
13:45 < martian67> which is the salient point
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13:45 < sibiria> no. just like a futon in japan doesn't cost a fortune over there, only here, because "special"
13:46 < martian67> id go as far as to wager in relative price, its way more than hundreds of dollars on an earnings vs cost 
13:46 < sibiria> but all that said, everyone understands that crocheting a puffy takes a bit of time :)
13:46 < martian67> over there
13:46 < Zerock> a pufferfish is a particularly complex shape
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13:46 < martian67> yeah, crocheting complicated shapes is pretty damn hard
13:47 < martian67> you gotta think in terms of hyperbolic geometry the whole thing is a bit nuts
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13:47 < martian67> there is a lot of interesting math there, way more than people expect :)
13:48 < Zerock> crochet mandelbrot when?
13:48 < martian67> you can reduce it to a pattern, but you have to understand the intent of the pattern if you want things to come out not-weird looking
13:48 < IcePic> martian67: like pixeling in the 80s on a TV
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13:50 < martian67> IcePic: yeah a lotta work to make a line
13:51 < sibiria> remiliascarlet can probably enlighten everyone about the cost of a common non-artisanal futon set
13:51 < martian67> sure, but thats gonna be machine made
13:51 < martian67> which is the key here
13:52 < martian67> at least partly
13:52 < martian67> ever stuff like crocheting or knitting is partly machine made, the yarn after all
13:53 < martian67> doing *that* by hand is even more ridiculously time consuming
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13:53 < martian67> its kinda wild to consider how the fuck everyone managed to even be clothed 
13:53 < martian67> i guess there was a reason people had like, 2 sets of clothing 
13:54 < martian67> one for life, one for church :D
13:54 < Zerock> that's why animal skins were/are used
13:54 < Zerock> at least the sheet material is already made
13:55 < Zerock> woven fabric is horribly tedious
13:55 < martian67> yep there was a reason people hung shit like tapestries in castles as a show of great wealth
13:56 < martian67> we are talking like, private jet levels of wealth there
13:57 < martian67> anyways all deeply off topic haha
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13:59 < tercaL> super cool, loved both sibiria and IcePic. A tiny carpet?
14:00 < tercaL> sibiria: Yeah, have seen that link, wanted to order one, but pricey..
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14:03 < remiliascarlet> sibiria: I have no idea, I don't even use a futon.
14:04 < GnarledHorn> Hello team. The recent dhcpleased breakage caught me and I now have a laptop that can't talk to the network (wired or wireless). Any creative ideas on how I can get connectivity to pull the snapshot with the fix? Reference: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=172473821713271&w=2
14:06 < GnarledHorn> disregard - it's in the original mail. Remove all lines in the /etc/dhcpleased.conf file
14:06  * GnarledHorn slides back into the shadows
14:06 < Zerock> yep I was just about to suggest that :)
14:06 < Zerock> good luck
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14:11 < GnarledHorn> Fix confirmed and I can also confirm the patch has made it into snapshots
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15:37 < remiliascarlet> echelon: "thanks doc" 95% of the doctors would actually recommend man made drugs, because it's their main source of income.
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16:48 < lts> Openports.pl unresponsive. I hope not permanently
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16:52 < brynet> lts: https://openbsd.app/
16:52 < brynet> is a good alternative
16:54 < lts> Faster, cleaner, and not even using javascript. Thank you
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20:15 < klsrqm> been finding a lot of the mirrors are unreliable as well. so many installs hang for me half way
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20:51 < jcs> maybe it's you
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20:54 < Bradipo> "maybe it's me.  Maybe it's just the constant rhythm of the sea..."
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21:09 < avemestr> Maybe it's Maybelline!
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21:14 < klsrqm> jcs: it's usually me.
21:15 < klsrqm> mind i don't think i managed to cause e.g. an entire outage at planetunix; but i have known to cause even larger crises unintentionally so who knows :)
21:15 < klsrqm> *have been known
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21:26 < thrig> click here to disable AWS -- some intern somewhere
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21:38 < vortexx> has anyone bothered to try running netauthd on OpenBSD?
21:38 < vortexx> (no it's not in ports)
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22:28 < izder456> clear
22:28 < izder456> whoops habit lol sorry
22:31 < avemestr> No worries, it's clear for us what happened.
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22:34 < Vaelatern> vortexx: why do you ask?
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22:34 < Vaelatern> storage driver?
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22:58 < Vaelatern> last I checked the file storage driver works
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23:57 < gtlwuc> does libevent work with libtls in async/nonblocking and kqueue?
23:57 < gtlwuc> or do i have to use libressl?
23:58 < gtlwuc> does man.openbsd.org contain a page that addresses this?
--- Log closed Wed Aug 28 00:00:23 2024