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04:52 < njn> if your password for example is 32 chars/128 bit and the block size is 64 bit how does the password length help with the strength if the encrypted password is always the same length
04:54 < echelon> an attacker doesn't do anything special with an encrypted password
04:55 < echelon> they try to brute force as many strings and find one that produces a matching hash
04:55 < njn> oh so the length would be the multiplier?
04:56 < echelon> yeah
04:56 < njn> ahhhh
04:56 < echelon> hence why you use salted passwords, so pregenerated rainbow tables won't work
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04:59 < njn> so the attacker would need to figure out the 64 bit hash brute forcing an X number bit password
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05:02 < echelon> i think there's supposed to be a comma in there, but yes
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05:05 < njn> thanks so much, i think i understand a little better now
05:05 < echelon> np
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05:07 < njn> so it would reveal the bit size or multiplier if the encrypted password wasnt always the same
05:08 < njn> hmm, i think i understand for the most part
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08:39 < emmatebibyte> good morning. the other day i joined with issues regarding /etc/daily.local and /etc/motd, which i thought would be resolved with what advice i was given here but which was not, in fact, resolved by the next running of the daily script
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08:40 < sibiria> su -l; crontab -e
08:41 < sibiria> script until your heart is content
08:41 < sibiria> example:   * * * * * root echo lol > /etc/motd
08:42 < emmatebibyte> is it recommended to use crontab over /etc/daily.local for this?
08:42 < sibiria> i don't think there's a recommendation against it. i've always used root's crontab for these things - in particular if i need exact timekeeping for the "thing"
08:42 < sibiria> less /etc/daily
08:43 < sibiria> read details; DAILY
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08:44 < sibiria> corresponding "bootstrap" will be at the bottom of root's crontab
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08:59 < renaud> oh, I never noticed that 'su -' is documented as deprecated
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10:03 < klsrqm> oh? what's the alternative?
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10:09 < klsrqm> BTW - anyone have any hints why my secondary screen might want to turn itself off every now and then under OpenBSD? It's connected via a Thunderbolt-HDMI converter.
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10:52 < mischief> klsrqm: maybe xset dpms off or smth like that
10:52 < mischief> er.. maybe xset -dpsm. check the manpage
10:52 < mischief> -dpms
10:52 < mischief> i should sleep.
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10:57 < klsrqm> thanks mischief 
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12:58 -!- j3s_ is now known as j3s
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12:59 -!- xs is now known as Guest2257
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13:18 -!- D0peX [~D0peX@2a03:6000:6e64:601::204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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13:24 -!- renaud [~renaud@amandil.arnor.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:35 -!- xs_ [~xs@inda.re] has quit [Quit: Cheers!]
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14:36 < vortexx> klsrqm: OpenBSD doesn't support Thunderbolt unfortunately
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15:09 < miah> alternative to 'su -' is 'doas -s'
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15:12 < highplainsdruid> anyone running gotwebd with nginx instead of httpd?  i'm going to give it a try setting it up
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15:14 < highplainsdruid> seems like it should be fairly straightforward.  omar polo has some documentation on his experience
15:22 < klsrqm> vortexx: well, it works fine mostly!
15:23 < klsrqm> there were a few mishaps when it decided to keep turning off the screen but it seems to work quite seamlessly otherwise 
15:23 < klsrqm> maybe the minidisplay bit works in a more "analogue" manner
15:27 < avemestr> Displayport.
15:29 < klsrqm> thanks, yes. meant to say "miniDP"
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15:32 < vortexx> klsrqm: oh great!
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16:02 < sibiria> anyone here using amdgpu(4) on x.org with working vsync ("tearfree")?
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19:07 < juny> hey folks, I have a thinkpad t16 on which I've juts installed openbsd, but the wireless hardware isn't being detected. I ran fw_update iwx but the interface isn't even showing up in ifconfig
19:07 < juny> the following shows up in dmesg
19:07 < juny> https://clbin.com/YmvF0
19:07 < juny> what does "not configured" mean?
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19:08 < betabug> not supported hardware
19:08 < juny> but the man page claims that "Intel AX210" is supported.
19:09 < juny> is the "Wi-Fi 6" part the problem?
19:09 < juny> is iwx not the correct driver?
19:10 < pardis> sometimes vendors change hardware without changing the model number
19:10 < sibiria> you can install the firmware either way in hopes that it will be found
19:10 < juny> sibiria: I did
19:10 < pardis> it won't make any difference
19:10 < juny> :c
19:10 < juny> alright then
19:10 < pardis> missing firmware is never the reason for a "not configured" message
19:10 < pardis> the driver has to attach to be able to load the firmware in the first place
19:10 < juny> right
19:11 < juny> I got excited when I saw the vendor list that hardware because I thought openbsd supported it. oh well
19:11 < juny> thanks
19:11 < pardis> if you're lucky, they've just changed the PCI ID and nothing else, and you can modify the kernel to add your device's ID and the existing driver will work
19:11 < pardis> if you're unlucky, more intrusive changes will be necessary
19:12 < juny> pardis: is the pci id the three numbers pcidump lists? or is it the class/subclass thing?
19:12 < juny> oh the vendor/product id?
19:13 < juny> I got 8086 and 7e40 in case anyone cares
19:13 < juny> I might try to compile a kernel that looks for that
19:17 < pardis> juny: it looks like the device ID is already defined in /sys/dev/pci/pcidevs
19:17 < pardis> https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/dev/pci/pcidevs#rev1.1990
19:17 < pardis> but the iwx driver doesn't seem to use it
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19:18 < pardis> so you could try adding it to iwx_devices in /sys/dev/pci/if_iwx.c
19:19 < pardis> ah wait, there's a comment about it
19:19 < pardis> /* _14 is an MA device, not yet supported */
19:19 < pardis> so there you go, it's unsupported
19:21 < juny> pardis: thanks :c
19:22  * oldlaptop wonders what "MA device" means
19:22 < pardis> I was wondering that too
19:23 < pardis> but that was committed by stsp, and if anyone would know very well whether or not a wifi device is supported, he does
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19:23 < juny> driver develpoment is so mysterious to me. every time I try to hunt down documentation for a given piece of hardware I end up at impenetrable PDFs hosted in a long forgotten corner of the manufacturer's website
19:24 < oldlaptop> you mean you find documentation!?!?!?
19:24 < pardis> drivers are read-only programs to us mere mortals
19:24 < juny> indeed
19:24 < oldlaptop> x-only, surely
19:24 < pardis> it's x-only to my CPU and r-only to me
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19:25 < juny> well having checked out the tree it can't hurt to try adding it to iwx_devices no? what's the worst that could happen
19:26 < oldlaptop> Probably not physical damage to anything, but these things can be tricky
19:26 < juny> I know too well
19:27 < pardis> the most likely outcome is that the device still would not attach, given there is a switch statement to detect the correct firmware for the model in iwx_attach
19:28 < pardis> you would need to figure out what the right firmware is for your device, add it to iwx_attach, and *then* find out if you get physical damage
19:29 < juny> right
19:29 < pardis> +2 modifier to your roll if you get the firmware wrong
19:29 < juny> :3
19:29 < oldlaptop> Or just plunk it in where the other "_14 is not supported" comment is. I believe the kids say "YOLO"
19:29 < juny> oh well I'll just install linux I suppose
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19:30 < juny> oldlaptop: those kids are parents now :3
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19:30 < oldlaptop> support for the wifi hardware; support for configuring the wifi hardware in a remotely sane way. pick only 1
19:30 < pardis> at least Linux gives you a choice of like 7 insane ways
19:31 < juny> right! and one of them might even actually work
19:31 < oldlaptop> I don't think you get all of them for a particular piece of hardware, though? aren't some of the weird userland tools specific to this or that kind of device?
19:31  * oldlaptop is hopelessly confused
19:31 < juny> oldlaptop: I'm pretty sure this is a kernel problem, the userland doesn't come into this
19:32 < oldlaptop> But networkmanager definitely is guaranteed to possibly make it work most of the time.
19:32 < thrig> Debian 12 installed over wifi but then did rf kills on the wifi after booting (and did not install any wifi debugging tools by default)
19:32 < juny> the hardware just isn't supported
19:32 < juny> thrig: good to know
19:32 < pardis> it can be a userland problem, just install Hurd
19:32 < thrig> arch was also wacky (so many broken things to choose from) but alpine worked pretty well
19:32 < oldlaptop> juny: Yes. (I was referring to the "choice of like 7 insane ways" to configure wifi hardware on linux)
19:32 < juny> ah!
19:33 < pardis> I've never encountered wifi device-specific userland tools on Linux as far back as I can remember, but I only started using Linux in 2008
19:33 < juny> I'll just use whatever the debian installer chooses for me
19:33 < oldlaptop> it's absolutely night and day - ifconfig is The Thing, and it Always Does What It's Supposed To.
19:33 < oldlaptop> pardis: My memory is very fuzzy on all this.
19:34 < juny> I guess I'll check every few months whether the iwx driver gets updated
19:34 < pardis> but there are distro-specific configs, and now there is the option of using the distro-specific config or systemd-networkd
19:34 < juny> it was lovely talking to y'all
19:34 < pardis> or going rogue and configuring it yourself with iproute2
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19:35 < oldlaptop> there were IIRC several things with names like "iwconfig" that did something somewhere between (linux) ifconfig and ethtool, which worked on different sets of drivers
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19:35 < pardis> I remember iwconfig, but it got deprecated around the same time I started using Linux, I think
19:35 < pardis> for a while there was iw, but now you can just use wpa_supplicant for the 802.11 bits and iproute2 for the rest, mostly
19:36 < oldlaptop> Oh, yeah, that's the other thing. wpa_supplicant is basically mandatory on linux (IIRC one generally uses it even when wpa is not involved) and usually irrelevant on openbsd.
19:37 < pardis> indeed, I'm not trying to say wpa_supplicant has a good interface, just that it works the same way for any device (that I've encountered)
19:37 < oldlaptop> Maybe in principle you could argue it's better to have more of that in userland, but it sure causes fewer headaches to just say 'ifconfig iwn0 nwid foo wpakey bar autoconf'
19:37 < thrig> linux has the wacky splitbrain between kernel and userland to navigate
19:38 < oldlaptop> even where kernel-land changes are driving the adoption of new userland tools
19:38 < pardis> an inevitable consequence of your OS being a collection of bits you downloaded from a few dozen sources and don't control the release process of
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20:23 < juny> debian testing seems to support it. oh well, thanks for all the fish
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20:45 < oldlaptop> juny: I assume it has USB ports >:)
20:46 < oldlaptop> (never mind how tricky buying USB wi-fi hardware - any wi-fi hardware, really - is... at least *sometimes* a bare board will actually have chips visible)
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21:28 < pardis> or run OpenBSD in qemu/kvm on Debian with pci passthrough of all devices other than the wifi and a serial console
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21:33 < juny> oldlaptop: indeed. I bought this laptop specifically because of the glorious "AX210" device in its specs, which I thought openbsd supported. but apprarently I have the one it doesn't :c
21:33 < juny> oh well
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23:00 < sibiria> is there any way to see what microcode patch level the system is running on?
23:02 < sibiria> maybe i'm wrong but i get the impression that the patch numbers printed during CPU core enumeration in dmesg is what's loaded by BIOS/EFI, not what openbsd loads from /etc/firmware
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23:09 < opv> is there a way to achieve true HA with smtpd instead of using backup MXes which just queue and wait for the primary to come back online?
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23:12 < eea> a clever script to promote a backup to primary?
23:13 < eea> maybe relayd could help?
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23:14 < eea> perhaps get pf involved, nsd/unbound type rig
23:15 < opv> i don't follow that last one, got a link?
23:16 < eea> not handy, can't redommeend the awesome openbsd man pages tho
23:16 < opv> i mean wdym by nsd/unbound type rig
23:16 < opv> i'm running unbound but there's no pf involved
23:16 < eea> i mean, can't recommend them enough
23:17 < eea> pf would handle the IP movement, if neesed, nsd/unbound if you run your own DNS to update the appropriate mx records
23:19 < opv> i don't run my own DNS, guess that would be yet another HA challenge
23:20 < opv> whether i add a pf or a relayd to route traffic, that's a new SPOF
23:20 < opv> i guess it all boils down to automated editing of dns records
23:20 < opv> or automated periodic sync from primary smtpd to secondary, and then eventual automatic rewrite of the smtpd config to work as primary
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23:54 < AlaskanEmily> So two things I'm wondering: Is $USER necessarily set to be the same as $LOGNAME (is there a reason to ever use $LOGNAME? instead), and separately, in C if getpwuid(getuid()) can't determine pw_name, is there any use to using getlogin() or will that also fail in that case?
23:57 < phy1729> Huh getlogin calls getlogin_r which is a syscall
23:58 < phy1729> Users can mess with environment variables, so I wouldn't put much faith in them
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 14 00:00:47 2024