--- Log opened Wed Oct 02 00:00:37 2024
00:04 < eea> i am eagerly anticipating risc-v support from openbsd
00:06 < vortexx> eea: https://www.openbsd.org/riscv64.html <-- there's been some support for a while, but I don't know how well it all runs
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00:08 < eea> well, that was sorta my point... we literally just need a working risc-v computer or two
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02:36 < rnkn> "compat_linux is currently only supported on the i386." oof
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02:51 < mischief> rnkn: what would you need that for?
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02:54 < rnkn> oh I was looking on man.openbsd.org 5.1, compat_linux is no longer included in OpenBSD it seems
02:54 < rnkn> mischief, running Ubuntu Firefox to get Widevine
02:54 < rnkn> theoretically
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02:59 < mischief> rnkn: no shot. sorry dude.
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03:01 < rnkn> ah Widevin is only x64 Linux anyway, which rules me out
03:01 < rnkn> Widevine
03:01 < mischief> rnkn: winewide is closed source and the authors do not provide binaries for which openbsd could use
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03:03 < mischief> and as you have observed there is no linux emulation any more.
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03:07 < pardis> rnkn: you can run Linux in a vmd guest
03:07 < pardis> and it works better than Linux binary emulation did at the time it was removed anyway
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03:42 < rnkn> pardis: but there's no graphics on vmd right?
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05:41 < pardis> rnkn: there is no graphical console, but that doesn't mean no graphics
05:41 < pardis> you can still run X clients
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05:41 < pardis> it would be quite difficult to prevent that, in fact
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05:49 < rnkn> so theoretically one could run x86 Ubuntu on arm64 Openbsd?
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06:10 < pardis> no, that's not how virtualisation works
06:11 < pardis> well, one could in qemu, but that's emulation
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06:22 < rnkn> a VM needs to be the same arch as the host?
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07:22 < pardis> a VM runs on the host's CPU
07:22 < pardis> the guest needs to be the same arch as the CPU just the same as the host OS does
07:23 < pardis> except in cases where the hardware itself can emulate other hardware (which does not apply to any hardware supported by vmd)
07:24 < IcePic> the only thing I know of would be x86_64 being able to run x86_32 somewhat comfortably
07:24 < pardis> yes, that's a weird case where you could argue for them being different architectures or variants of the same architecture
07:24 < IcePic> I think there could be a similar case for mips64 -> mips32, but I don't know of any such virtualization hosts. 
07:25 < IcePic> so in essense you are correct, its always about same cpu arch
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07:26 < IcePic> otherwise you get into full emulation. Which could be fast (with JIT) but its still a whole other kind of "running programs/OS inside a program" 
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07:32 < thyssentishman> rnkn: you can try to do something like the following, but with Firefox
07:32 < thyssentishman> https://anirudh.fi/blog/signal-vmm/
07:32 < thyssentishman> not sure how well that'd work though
07:32 < thyssentishman> worth a try IMO
07:34 < thyssentishman> icyphox: that's your blogpost no? ^^
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08:33 < rnkn> thyssentishman: interesting, thanks :)
08:36 < rnkn> so theoretically it's possible to get DRM playback in OpenBSD, by running Ubuntu in vmm and doing the hack to download the aarch64 ChromeOS version of Widevine
08:42 < quinq> You'd be better off downloading an unlocked version of the videos you need
08:42 < quinq> Rather than trying to run very limited software
08:48 < sibiria> set sail for "The Bay"
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09:48 < rnkn> quinq: I respect artists' rights
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10:04 < pardis> theoretically you can whenever vmm support for arm64 is committed
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11:11 < quinq> rnkn, sure, I'm talking about the blocking software
11:12 < quinq> You don't have to disrespect artists rights
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13:28 < rnkn> it's their right to using DRM 
13:29 < rnkn> these rights are no different to the rights under which  OpenBSD is distributed 
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13:30 < sibiria> and it's your right to watch the movie you paid for, without being forced into having to watch it standing on your head
13:31 < sibiria> now you paid and "respected" the artists' rights. go get a functional copy anywhere you want
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13:38 < rnkn> sibiria: sorry but paying for a copy of a movie does not give you the right to watch other copies however you like
13:38 < rnkn> you buy a license, you don't own the film
13:39 < rnkn> just like you don't own openbsd
13:40 -!- break19_ is now known as break19
13:40 < rnkn> anyway, ot
13:44 < vortexx> depends where you live, the right to a personal copy of a product you bought exists in some countries. Too complex a debate for this channel.
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13:47 < sibiria> yes, it depends entirely on where you live. most of europe has consumer protection laws involving the right to make private use copies of film and music you bought
13:48 < sibiria> in fact even sharing such copies with one's family, and even closest circle of friends
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13:48 < sibiria> but yes, off-topic. please enjoy your DRM jail!
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13:55 < amnesiac> Hi guys. Have a question. If mouse has several programmable buttons - does it drive by umous or ukbd too ?
13:55 < amnesiac> have this message in system log when attaching device: uhidev2 at uhub4 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 "Razer Razer DeathAdder Essential" rev 2.00/2.00 addr 7
13:55 < amnesiac> confused by this: wskbd2: connecting to wsdisplay0
13:55 < amnesiac> why it sees as wskbd ?
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14:42 < polarian> Just a thought which I didn't know the answer to, why does OpenBSD use cvs? Is it because its what was used back when development begun and there is no desire to migrate to say git...?
14:43 < polarian> also I assume OpenCVS never came into fruitation?
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14:43 < phy1729> git also is GPL'd and the project would prefer to avoid GPL code where possible
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14:47 < vortexx> https://gameoftrees.org/ will hopefully provide the future for release control on OpenBSD
14:47 < vortexx> https://gameoftrees.org/goals.html
14:48 < amnesiac> I saw openbsd tree on github
14:48 < vortexx> I think that's out there out of convenience but it isn't the master repo
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14:51 < IcePic> polarian: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=136724343006024&w=2 
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15:10 < Bradipo> Anyone know of software FIDO2 implementations that run on OpenBSD?
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15:23 < dfdx> IcePic: fascinating e-mail. in it, he says "GIT next week?" lol. That e-mail was sent literally over 10 years ago. imo, shows how he was unable to differentiate between a fad and what ultimately dominated version control tools.
15:23 < dfdx> and i say that as someone who is happy with cvs and would have preferred mercurial lol.
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15:27 < Bradipo> I too like CVS, but I also recognize some of the value of DVCS.  I tend to prefer Fossil over the others.  I've tried many.
15:28 < Bradipo> But, Fossil doesn't readily scale to the size of the BSD source trees.
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15:28 < Bradipo> Doesn't matter to me because I don't expect any of my use of it to ever grow to that size.
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15:36 < Foxy_> amnesiac: OpenBSD on GitHub (https://github.com/openbsd) = read-only repositories synced with OpenBSD CVS repos (src, ports, xenocara, www)
15:38 < amnesiac> Foxy_, yes
15:38 < amnesiac> I'm curious about wskbd pewviously asked about it
15:39 < amnesiac> when connecting mouse to machine
15:39 < amnesiac> log says wskbd attached
15:39 < amnesiac> because of programmable buttons exist on the mouse ?
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15:45 < rIMpossible> Hello
15:46 < rIMpossible> I want to use a Dell wireless mouse MS5120W, what do I need to change in wsconsctl to get it work?
15:46 < rIMpossible> It has a little wireless dongle.
15:47 < rIMpossible> wsconsctl mouse.type is 'synaptics', what I assume is for the internal trackpad ...
15:49 < rIMpossible> The dongle shows in syslog as "Dell Computer Corp Dell Universal Receiver"
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15:52 < dfdx> I don't know your specific case, but I know that Openbsd supports wireless, but not bluetooth. 
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15:54 < Bradipo> As long as the mouse shows up as a USB mouse, it should work.
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16:05 < rIMpossible> dfdx: Bradipo: I will sent the output to scratchpad, maybe I have overseen sth.
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16:14 < rIMpossible> https://pastebin.com/YmVzQ9kx
16:15 < oldlaptop> dfdx: I think pretty much everybody is devoid of the magical future-vision necessary to tell whether $foo is a "fad" or not
16:16 < oldlaptop> you might as well laugh at someone for thinking SVN was the obvious way of the future circa 2003
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16:16 < Bradipo> The one nice thing about CVS is that it's closer to the "everything is a file" nature of Unix.  If things blow up, at least the files are all there.
16:16 < oldlaptop> Bradipo: Even the Tcl core really stretches the limits of fossil, IMO.
16:17 < Bradipo> That's interesting, I didn't think that the Tcl core stretched it at all.
16:17 < oldlaptop> (and that's as close to an automatic "if there are problems they'll get fixed" case as you'll get for fossil besides sqlite)
16:17 < Bradipo> I'm talking about the NetBSD Fossil repository which is over 50GB.
16:17 < oldlaptop> Have you tried a `fossil clone` from scratch lately? :P
16:18 < Bradipo> On Tcl core?  I haven't.
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16:18 < oldlaptop> And in fairness that's still a few orders of magnitude behind netbsd (my tcl.fossil is not quite 600M, tk not quite 400)
16:19 < Bradipo> I cloned the NetBSD Fossil repository (when it was still available) and it took days.
16:19 < oldlaptop> It's awfully slow to clone IME, and rather sluggish to sync. But not NetBSD levels of comedy.
16:22 < Bradipo> According to the /stat page, Tcl Core is 422 MiB.  That's not terrible, and I don't think that stretches Fossil's limits.  It might stretch bandwidth limits...
16:23 < oldlaptop> I mean, in one sense netbsd didn't "stretch the limits" - sqlite databases can get a lot bigger than 50G
16:23 < Bradipo> True.  I was able to sync just fine once I had cloned.
16:23 < Bradipo> But it took many days to clone and then many days to "rebuild" the NetBSD DB.
16:24 < Bradipo> So yeah, it "worked", it just wasn't blazing fast.
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16:24 < Bradipo> And I did this all on OpenBSD.
16:24 < Bradipo> I imagine it would have been slightly faster on other OSes.
16:26 < Bradipo> I just now finished cloning Tcl core... it took about 6--7 minutes "on the wire".
16:26 < Bradipo> Now it's rebuilding.
16:28 < oldlaptop> Yeah, it spends IIRC a solid majority of that time doing database stuff off the wire
16:28 < Bradipo> Well, when I cloned NetBSD, it took way more time "on the wire" than it did in rebuilding.
16:29 < Bradipo> Probably because I was pulling down data from across the pond.
16:30 < Posterdati> hi
16:32 < Posterdati> please help, I have an old xeon x3210 and I cannot use vmd with it. BIOS reported VMM technology for this cpu, but dmesg returns this: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,LONG,LAHF,PERF,SENSOR,MELTDOWN
16:32 < Posterdati> thanks for help
16:34 < Bradipo> Is it disabled in the BIOS? Assuming it can be disabled/enabled...
16:34 < oldlaptop> That's a core2 CPU, isn't it?
16:35 < oldlaptop> core2 has no "nested or extended paging capabilities" (in vmm(4)'s language)
16:37 < seninha> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_processors_(Core-based)#Xeon_3000_series_(uniprocessor),_Quad_Core
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16:39 < lts> Here I was thinking is my CPU from 2013 too old
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16:50 < Bradipo> oldlaptop: Indeed, the rebuild for Tcl core is taking much longer than the transfer over the wire.
16:51 < oldlaptop> I'm guessing that's partly because of how intensively they use branches
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16:51 < oldlaptop> that giant netbsd repo was just giant, not particularly complicated
16:51 < oldlaptop> tcl is full of topic branches
16:51 < oldlaptop> (in a way openbsd on got presumably wouldn't be)
16:52 < Bradipo> I'm not sure why branches would make a difference.  But that's an interesting suggestion.
16:52 < Bradipo> I wonder if Tcl is doing: https://www.fossil-scm.org/forum/forumpost/4c706795b9baace33bc216de1008a1925e2e3a528a18308df905d609dae224d7
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16:52 < Bradipo> Though, perhaps that only improves wire speeds, not rebuild speeds.
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16:54 < Bradipo> A branch in Fossil is simply a tag that propagates to descendents, but maybe the calculation of which artifacts have which tags is expensive?
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16:57 < oldlaptop> The actual structure will be more complex too
16:57 < oldlaptop> the history is very much *not* basically linear
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17:10 < Bradipo> oldlaptop: By the way, after Tcl was successfully cloned, my tcl.fossil is only 338MB... you might want to run "fossil rebuild --compress-only tcl.fossil" to make it smaller.
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17:27 < vortexx> Posterdati: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/28033/intel-xeon-processor-x3210-8m-cache-2-13-ghz-1066-mhz-fsb.html no VT-d on that CPU (and it goes back to Q1 2007... try something even slightly more recent ?)
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17:32  * oldlaptop doesn't recall whether the cutoff is Sandy Bridge or the step before that
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22:12 < demoman> in vi is it a bug that I have to wait the full keytime for 'dd' when I have 'map da[ F[d%' set?
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22:16 < demoman> i can do 'map dd dd' as a work around but I think that is dumb
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22:21 < Bradipo> demoman: What does "wait the full keytime" mean?
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22:22 < demoman> Bradipo: just wait for keytime to timeout is a better way to put it
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 03 00:00:38 2024