--- Log opened Thu Oct 17 00:00:58 2024
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01:05 < jb1277976> I'm back.. getting a new laptop and i'm pretty sure everything is going to work on it. Question is i tried to build fvwm3 and it failed to build via ports, i know we aren't suppose to mess with them but the latest package version is fvwm-2 and fvwm3 is what the #fvwm people are telling me to use.. any ideas ?
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01:12 < thrig> does fvwm3 have something you need not provided by the base fvwm?
01:13 < CowboyNeal> what's wrong with the fvwm3 package?
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01:43 < oldlaptop> I guess it has a numeral 3, that sounds important.
01:48 < pardis> and if you really do want to build something from ports, "failed to build" is too vague for anyone to be able to offer any kind of help
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02:00 < byteskeptical> oldlaptop: yeah but is not 4
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02:03 < oldlaptop> 4 sounds too big. That's a whole unit more than 3.
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02:33 < o0x1eef> 7.6 is the only number that matters :)
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02:37 < jb1277976> Hi guys sorry i was afk pardis not on ooenbsd anymore thrig the devs in #fvwm plusnthere topic says use fvm3
02:38 < jb1277976> plus there*
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02:40 < pardis> I'm sure if you're not on OpenBSD people will magically know what you mean, I hadn't taken that into consideration
02:42 < oldlaptop> I don't think the people in #fvwm want to support openbsd's fork of fvwm any more than any hypothetical active twm developers would want to support the fvwm people's fork of twm
02:42 < oldlaptop> (if I recall fvwm's origins correctly)
02:45 < oldlaptop> anyhow, I see a http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages/amd64/fvwm3-1.1.0.tgz - not sure what this business about there "not being a package" is
02:45 < oldlaptop> unless that's about some other random operating system that we can't help you with
02:46 < oldlaptop> it doesn't appear to have ever been marked BROKEN or ONLY_FOR_ARCH either
02:46 < oldlaptop> (or anything other than PERMIT_PACKAGE = Yes)
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04:03 < adonis> 'man curl' mentions certain options need libcurl built with c-ares. But how exactly is that done? I don't see a port that builds curl with c-ares, and fetching the ports tree and looking at the net/curl makefile doesn't imply it supports building with c-ares either.
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04:06 < pardis> if the port doesn't support it then you'll have to either add support for it to the port yourself or build curl outside the ports system
04:07 < pardis> if you're lucky it will just involve adding to LIB_DEPENDS and WANTLIB and adding a CONFIGURE_ARGS flag, but the upstream build instructions should clarify
04:09 < adonis> ok, got it, thanks..
04:10 < jb1277976> oldlaptop: i probably didn't look hard enough.. i was on current and i just did a pkg_add fvwm and fvwm2 came up.. should have done pkg_info -Q fvwm and would have saw fvwm3
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07:52 < opv> vortexx: yeah, wg is blocked too
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12:22 < sinvet> is there currently some way to use telegram on OpenbSD ? I used to use telegram-purple via pidgin but now on github it says that it's abandoned
12:24 < IcePic> https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=telegram&path=&pkgname=&category=&maintainer=
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12:31 < sinvet> IcePic, thanks
12:32 < sinvet> pkg_info -S was not this helpful
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12:57 < solene> hello
12:57 < renaud> hello solene 
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13:06 < sinvet> its nice that someone ported telegram-desktop to openbsd
13:06 < avemestr> sinvet: You'd want "pkg_info -Q telegram" for searching for telegram. Not -S.
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13:09 < solene> pkg_info -aQ
13:09 < sinvet> right my mistake
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13:14 < Foxy_> hello solene :)
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13:16 < solene> hello Foxy_
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13:17 < Foxy_> solene: I'm Laurent C. FYI
13:21 < solene> I know, I remembered someone yelled at me due to your username (:
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13:44 < sinvet> if xenodm starts with minimum possible resolution instead of a proper one, whats the proper way to fix it ?
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13:47 < solene> what's your GPU?
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13:51 < sinvet> solene, Intel HD something
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13:57 < shinbeth> solene, dmesg https://dpaste.com/9YSVSBX7Q.txt 
14:00 < shinbeth> I changed resolution in xfce settings and now it persists but only after loging in, when xenodm login prompt starts its in 640x360 something resolution
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14:00 < betabug> maybe your clock is set to 1984?
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14:02 < solene> shinbeth: maybe a bug with in the graphical driver
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14:15 < sibiria> shinbeth: are you perhaps using an old monitor? one where EDID or DisplayID isn't being sent back to the graphics card
14:15 < sibiria> if the framebuffer driver gets no information about display capabilities, it can't do much else than using the lowest common denominator
14:16 < sibiria> in that case you will need to be explicit about resolution preference in the x.org settings
14:17 < sibiria> it may even be that you're using a "handicapped" chinese display cable where DDC pins are not connected, to keep costs down
14:21 < shinbeth> sibiria, it could be handicapped display as it's lenovo, but its laptops own display, if I remember correctly this probem appeared when I upgraded from 7.4 to 7.5 I was just barely using this computer for a year
14:22 < solene> try to upgrade to 7.6
14:22 < sibiria> for a laptop, even lenovo, i would expect it to work correct and be fully connected
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14:27 < shinbeth> solene, it is already upgraded to 7.6 but that problem did not resolve
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15:24 < miah> supsup
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15:32 < solene> TIL there is nsd in the base system
15:33 < thrig> No Such Daemon
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15:36 < echelon> solene: doesn't everyone run their own root server?
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15:38 < echelon> personally i like powerdns, i've found it requires less resources than nsd
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15:39 < sibiria> nsd uses only 32mb of ram in my case (small setup with just a few zones)
15:40 < sibiria> which is a lot in the relative sense, since all it does is to blurt out static responses, kinda
15:42 < echelon> i tried running nsd on a system with 128mb of ram, and it got oom'ed
15:42 < echelon> powerdns ran stably
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15:43 < echelon> both using static zone files
15:43 < sibiria> openbsd itself is unfit for 128mb of ram
15:43 < miah> interesting, i usually use unbound, i havent really looked at how much of my system its using
15:43 < miah> i run my server with 512mb of ram though
15:44 < solene> unbound is a recursive server for resolving, nsd is an authoritative server to reply to DNS requests for a given name
15:45 < solene> echelon: I don't think so, I never wanted to manage my domains myself for instance :)
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15:56 < miah> unbound replies to my dns requests for given names as well
15:58 < vortexx> 320Mb is about the minimum I've been able to use OpenBSD with in an amd64 VM
15:58 < vortexx> used to be 256Mb several releases ago (maybe even 10)
15:58 < solene> miah: yes but if you own foobar.com, you need to host it on nsd and expose it to the world
16:01 < miah> interesting, its been a minute since i've hosted my own dns and i feel like we did this before at a previouss job using unbound even. i may be misrembering something though
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16:02 < sibiria> unbound isn't a name server but if you pester it enough it can sort of make things look as if it were
16:03 < miah> ya, seems like =)
16:03 < sibiria> that is, you can configure it to respond directly to certain requests instead of doing what it usually does, which is to ask another server for the answer
16:03 < miah> i host my own internal domain using it
16:03 < miah> right
16:04 < miah> its simplicity reminds me of the times i ran maradns (having come from bind)
16:04 < sibiria> and nsd can only do the former (respond about stuff it knows explicitly)
16:04 < miah> but like i said, i dont run my own dns server 'online' at the moment
16:05 < miah> i see
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16:05 < miah> i'll have to look at nsd a bit more i guess
16:06 < miah> (cuz its unlike ill ever touch bind again)
16:06 < thrig> bind is scriptable, so you can have code fiddle around with the records rather than some horrid web interface
16:07 < miah> is nsd's origin named? or something else
16:08 < miah> thrig: ya, generating the files is simple enough. just remember always having some odd issue with it
16:08 < sibiria> i recall reading that a lot of the root servers switched from BIND to nsd the past 10+ years
16:08 < miah> interesting
16:08 < sibiria> fasterer, moderner, betterer
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16:09 < miah> ah straight out of nl labs, but uses a similar named config file format
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16:09 < miah> nlnet even
16:10 < miah> betterer is a good selling point, take my money
16:10 < sibiria> i know very little about DNS, but the syntax looks identical to what i've seen the few times i've had a look at BIND
16:10 < miah> ya
16:11 < miah> reading the wikipedia about it now, it uses the same format for zone files
16:11 < miah> and maybe wikipedia is out of date on this, but it says that 4 of the root servers now use nsd
16:12 < miah> (its been a decade+ since i hosted my own, or run dns for a corp at this point, so my knowledge about the subject is growing very crusty)
16:13 < phy1729> For the root servers in particular you want a variety of servers so no one bug affects them all
16:13 < miah> that seems reasonable
16:14 < sibiria> that way you can get two bugs at the same time, for diversity
16:14 < miah> a dos on one and a rce on the other?
16:17 < miah> running this server has slowly gotten me to return to running my own services
16:17 < miah> so its likely only a matter of time until i return to authorative dns and smtp
16:18 < miah> have been letting registrars or cdn's deal with resolving names for a while now :(
16:18 < miah> and even sadder google doing my email.. which made sense when i moved cross country decades ago
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16:22 < sinvet> solene, I am reading this https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2024-09-12-email-selfhost-to-protonmail.html can you tell what are better privacy oriented email services than protonmail in your opinion ?
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16:25 < miah> ive always head good things about protonmail too; we use fastmail at work
16:27 < sinvet> years ago someone suggested me tutanota, some german email provider, but its a bit complicated I ended up quickly losing access to my account
16:28 < sibiria> i used tutanota and posteo in the past, with good results. but they are subject to german "anti terrorist" laws and at least tutanota have been subpoenad for data
16:29 < sinvet> oh now tutanota is called just tuta
16:30 < sinvet> sibiria, I see
16:30 < solene> sinvet: tuta, posteo and mailbox.org I guess
16:30 < solene> but if you can, just don't use mail, they suck
16:31 < solene> also, tuta offers no imap/smtp/ and don't have import features
16:31 < sibiria> posteo claims "no retention", but if the german states needs them to "wiretap" a user they must comply by law. no idea if they have a canary
16:31 < sibiria> german state*
16:31 < sinvet> also someone on this channel suggested migadu as least annoying, which is also paid and you must have your own domain I used it for a couple of years, trully was not annyed by it but did not investigate its privacy policy though
16:31 < solene> sinvet: tuta had too do this
16:31 < solene> oops, I meant sibiria
16:33 < sibiria> i'm happy to run my own mail server, despite the complications
16:33 < thrig> gmail was quite good at putting openbsd mailing list traffic into the spam folder
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16:34 < miah> i'll be happy to get off gmail and host my own server at some point soon
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16:34 < solene> I wrote this stuff about emails and privacy https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/email-and-privacy/
16:35 < miah> looks very comprehensive
16:35 < sinvet> thrig, gmail was also quite good at at least admitting that they are datamining your emails and training their neural networks on it, calculating your debts and such you can only choose whether you see it or not
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16:37 < miah> :( when i switched to using gmail as my mail host, google was still in their 'dont be evil phase'. sadly that didn't continue.
16:37 < miah> until then i had hosted my own on linux/postfix
16:38 < sinvet> solene, I'll investigate your recomendations, I however have one free mailbox on protonmail but its with lenghty password and only as recovery mail for some stuff
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16:45 < sibiria> google was always evil
16:46 < sibiria> they just stopped pretending
16:46 < eea> so much this^
16:46 < eea> but, they did sort of inspire me to run my own mail on openbsd :)
16:48 < miah> well, true. but definitely 'more evil' after the doubleclick merger
16:49 < miah> there were definitely actions i should have seen as evil back then but for whatever reason i was blind to; (lots of acquisitions of nice software that suddenly stopped being available)
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16:51 < miah> eea: do you use opensmtpd or other? ive been looking into it but haven't quite taken the plunge to routing mail to it yet
16:51 < sibiria> we all float down here
16:51 < sibiria> we all use opensmtpd down here*
16:51 < miah> lol
16:52 < eea> miah: i use opensmtpd and openhttpd, and as much of the included base stuff as possible (relayd/pf/etc)
16:52 < miah> right nice
16:53 < miah> i am also using openbsd httpd; its been solid. started setting up relayd as i want to block some http request methods.
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16:54 < miah> have had lots of fun using location settings to make a whacky web firewall (i hate seeting 404's in my logs for wordpress attacks and such)
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16:55 < miah> i found out lots of sites don't like when you return 418 and some try harder
16:55 < miah> sites? clients? whatever
16:57 < miah> so many dumb requests like this: "GET /shell%3Fcd+/tmp;rm+-rf+*;wget+"
16:57 < miah> they all get added to a pf rule to go to hell
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17:18 < miah> do y'all get to use openbsd in your day job? or are you all linux janitors like myself?
17:19 < sibiria> i used to run openbsd for work, ages ago
17:20 < miah> a startup i worked at in like... 2000 ran freebsd and that is as close as ive ever been
17:21 < betabug> on and off since 2001
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17:22 < miah> very cool
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17:24 < betabug> when there was the sshd remote vuln way back then, in one place I logged back in to upgrade the machine, despite having left the job some months before
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17:24 < betabug> I guess the box kept on running till someone turned off the electricity
17:25 < miah> not uncommon for corps to lose track of server inventory or purpose after people leave
17:26 < miah> maybe less a problem in todays k8s world, but certainly something ive encountered at every job with real hardware or dedicated cloud servers
17:26 < betabug> that wasn't a big corporation, they probably knew there was this box, but nobody knew what it was doing
17:26 < miah> right
17:26 < miah> 'it might be important, dont touch it'
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17:46 < eea> "legacy system"
17:48 < miah> thats my life
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17:50 < miah> im working on a ticket to automate building & replacing a system that was put on the chopping block more than 5 years ago
17:50 < miah> it 'works fine' currently, but is beyond outdated
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17:53 < byteskeptical> miah: sounds like there's at least another 5 years left in it 
17:54 < miah> definitely! =)
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18:42 < sinvet> solene, did you get protonmail plan with vpn ? and if so have you tried using protonvpn via wirehard on OpenBSD ?
18:42 < sinvet> https://protonvpn.com/support/wireguard-configurations
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20:09 < sir-photch> hey there
20:10 < sir-photch> I'm getting lucky
20:10 < sir-photch> VPS console tells me:
20:10 < sir-photch>  "panic: uvm_fault failed: ffffff8000842d48 esr 96000047 far ffffff800db30000"
20:10 < sir-photch> time to panic?
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20:12 < thrig> no Bond, I expect you to die
20:12 < sir-photch> openbsd 7.6 arm64
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20:21 < sir-photch> cool
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20:30 < sibiria> shame if it ran fine on 7.5 on the same host
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20:32 < sir-photch> definetly
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20:32 < sir-photch> because it did
20:32 < sir-photch> at least it didnt panic
20:32 < sir-photch> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
20:37 < sir-photch> who even upgrades to STABLE versions really?
20:37 < sibiria> i always run -stable
20:37 < thrig> me too
20:37 < sir-photch> cool you guys on 7.6
20:38 < sir-photch> ?
20:38 < sibiria> i'm on 7.6 on arm64
20:38 < sir-photch> lucky you
20:38 < sibiria> (oracle cloud)
20:38 < sir-photch> hetzner is a shitshow
20:38 < sir-photch> fucking pricks can't let me access the cloud console from my mobile phone
20:39 < sir-photch> says "verifying that you are not a robot"
20:39 < sir-photch> FOR 10 MINUTES STRAIGHT
20:39 < sir-photch> how am I supposed to reset my wireguard router???
20:39 < sibiria> try temporarily disabling strict browser policies and/or adblocker
20:39 < sibiria> a lot of stupid crap out there still want to do third-party cookies and such
20:40 < sir-photch> hmm, maybe it is vanadium of grapheneos
20:40 < sir-photch> maybe it is time to get less paranoid about the interwebz :/
20:40 < sibiria> at least for a short moment?
20:40 < sir-photch> yeah no you are right
20:40 < thrig> or have a burner device used for modern web crap
20:40 < sir-photch> but still, fiddling with settings all the time
20:40 < sibiria> are you happy with grapheneos? smooth experience?
20:41 < sir-photch> yes definetly
20:41 < sir-photch> they even have the weight to go up to facebook and tell them that their software is broken, for them to listen
20:42 < sir-photch> wait I'll look up the github issue
20:42 < sir-photch> https://github.com/facebook/hermes/issues/1535
20:43 < sir-photch> anyway. If you like to pay with google pay, that won't work, probably never
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20:43 < sir-photch> some banking apps also rely on some google "integrity api" (???) and won't work, but mine does fortunately
20:43 < sir-photch> about banking apps: there is a support matrix online somewhere, community maintained
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20:43 < sibiria> play services, i suppose. i read that it's possible to run it on graphene now in some isolated fashion
20:44 < sir-photch> yes, it is possible and every other app depending on play services works fine, literally
20:45 < sir-photch> you can end up giving google services only network permission on your phone since it is treated as any other app, instead of it being basically a root-level service
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20:53 < sibiria> what model of the Pixel are you using?
20:54 < sir-photch> 7 pro
20:54 < sir-photch> unfortunately, the last generation without hardware memory tagging
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21:01 < sibiria> i was looking at getting a used 6a
21:01 < sibiria> but not sure how long before it's put on life support
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23:02 -!- adig [~default@109.166.138.162] has joined #openbsd
23:03 -!- sinvet [sinvet@user/sinvet] has joined #openbsd
23:03 -!- ficonni [~ficonni@109-92-123-228.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:05 -!- shinbet [sinvet@user/sinvet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:06 -!- shinbeth [~shinbeth@user/sinvet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
23:18 -!- shinbeth [~shinbeth@user/sinvet] has joined #openbsd
23:19 -!- oxyhyxo [~oxyhyxo@101.191.16.128] has joined #openbsd
23:26 -!- CrashOverride [~strcat@p548542dd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:29 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:39 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has joined #openbsd
23:49 -!- shinbeth [~shinbeth@user/sinvet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:49 -!- macabro` [~user@181.209.195.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:49 -!- shinbeth [~shinbeth@user/sinvet] has joined #openbsd
23:50 -!- itrsea [~Thunderbi@user/itrsea] has joined #openbsd
23:50 -!- macabro [~user@user/monkey/x-0691028] has joined #openbsd
--- Log closed Fri Oct 18 00:00:59 2024