--- Log opened Sun Oct 27 00:00:39 2024
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02:28 < vortexx> when is ftp going to learn http2 & 3? :P
02:30 < mischief> does it need to
02:33 < vortexx> faaaaasteeer downloads
02:33 < vortexx> so yeah
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02:40 < vortexx> time to install official 7.6 vs my non-official 7.6-BASE one that doesn't have the right hash. Back in a bit
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02:44 < vortexx> re
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03:21 < mischief> vortexx: for the common use of ftp, i do not believe you
03:23 < mischief> wall time for http/2 https://cloudflare.cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/amd64/install76.iso is 0m7.272s, for http/1.1 is 0m7.065s. so basically both line rate on my connection.
03:23 < thrig> maybe if they add javascript and ads and popups and webfonts to ftp
03:25 < mischief> bonus round: curl --http3-only doesn't complete succesfully to cloudflare.cdn.openbsd.org :-)
03:26 < vortexx> heh
03:26 < vortexx> it was just in jest
03:26 < vortexx> I'm no expert on the http protocol
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03:28 < mischief> when your webshit needs walk uphill both ways in the snow, you need http/2
03:28 < mischief> (thanks google)
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03:29 < mischief> for sending a single binary stream.. well, http not-2-or-3 suffices for a big one way transfer
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03:31 < thrig> Range header can be handy
03:33 < mischief> which works perfectly fine with http/1.1
03:34 < vortexx> mischief: all I know is, turning the http2 knob on nginx for nginx really speeds up up/downloads
03:35 < vortexx> s/for nginx/for nextcloud
03:38 < mischief> it is faster in some contexts, but that's the important part
03:39 < mischief> ftp can't take advantage of that, it's not a web browser
03:41 < vortexx> true
03:41 < vortexx> ftp does it's job pretty well nearly all the time as far as I can tell
03:41 < vortexx> if not all the time
03:42 < vortexx> bit odd when it takes 22secs to dl bas76.tgz off a vm on the same server on one vm and then 7s on the other
03:42 < vortexx> but these are mere quibbles
03:44 < mischief> 7s 100MB/s for curl to download install76.iso from cloudflare cdn
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03:44 < mischief> and that's on a computer on my lan through my openbsd firewall ;-)
03:45 < vortexx> that's curl tho
03:46 < vortexx> Installing base76.tgz   100% |**************************|   414 MB    00:15 
03:46 < vortexx> a tad slow
03:47 < vortexx> (and I've been doing sparc64 emulated stuff where it takes 3+ mins to get base76.tgz this weekend)
03:47 < mischief> 7.6 vm on the same host as before
03:47 < mischief> openbsd$ ftp -o /dev/null https://cloudflare.cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/amd64/install76.iso
03:47 < mischief> Trying 104.17.249.92...
03:47 < mischief> Requesting https://cloudflare.cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/amd64/install76.iso
03:48 < mischief> 100% |***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************|   670 MB    00:08
03:48 < mischief> 702595072 bytes received in 8.18 seconds (81.81 MB/s)
03:48 < mischief> even with the qemu and openbsd slowness, still pretty fast
03:49 < mischief> writing to disk is a totally different ballgame though :-)
03:51 < vortexx> yeah these VMs are on spinning rust
03:51 < vortexx> raid5 spinning rust, but spinning rust all the same
03:52 < mischief> yea, i tried your same test. my 'media' volume lives on spinning rust, but since i just dl'd it it was in the page cache
03:52 < mischief> openbsd$ ftp -o /dev/null http://192.168.0.10/media/iso/install76.iso
03:52 < mischief> Trying 192.168.0.10...
03:52 < mischief> Requesting http://192.168.0.10/media/iso/install76.iso
03:52 < mischief> 100% |***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************|   670 MB    00:00
03:52 < mischief> 702595072 bytes received in 0.70 seconds (944.92 MB/s)
03:52 < vortexx> Installing base76.tgz   100% |**************************|   414 MB    00:15 <-- this vm is on an ssd though
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03:52 < vortexx> local download
03:53 < mischief> sata or nvme
03:53 < vortexx> pretty good on your side
03:53 < vortexx> nvme
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03:53 < vortexx> but then it's downloading off spinning rust
03:54 < mischief> if it's not hot in the cache, then it would probably feel a little slow
03:55 < mischief> my hgst 14t disks run at the usual 250m/s or so, which does feel sluggish if you're used to doing stuff that's hot in page cache or on nvme
03:59 < vortexx> but do you host pub/OpenBSD locally?
03:59 < vortexx> I do for release and release-n-1
04:00 < mischief> i keep iso for vms, not the rest. my usage is very infrequent since it's mostly my gateway/firewall today
04:01 < mischief> and having a gigabit line, it's not really a problem to fetch things off the cdns
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04:09 < mischief> side note, my disks are manufacturer refurbished/'renewed' WUH721414ALE604 that are still probably the cheapest $/gb you can find. would be happy to hear of anything cheaper/newer :)
04:09 < thrig> wait a year?
04:10 < mischief> for what
04:10 < thrig> cheaper/newer
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04:10 < vortexx> I don't use iso for vms, just prefer http download from bsd.rd
04:10 < mischief> i'm not in a hurry, i have plenty of free space and they still are selling the mfg refurbished 14t disks
04:11 < vortexx> (and I build my own packages so I have a rather large pub/OpenBSD
04:11 < vortexx> )
04:11 < mischief> doesn't hurt to keep an eye out for deals though
04:11 < mischief> $120 for 14tb is still a steal, even 2 years later
04:11 < vortexx> it'd be nice if we could get 2.5" drives over 5Tb but apparently that has to be SSD only and costs an arm and a leg
04:12 < vortexx> (my homelab is 4x3.5"+2x2.5")
04:13 < mischief> i uh, overbuilt
04:13 < vortexx> my setup is 4 years old now
04:13 < vortexx> 6x4Tb
04:13 < mischief> space for 8 3.5" + 6 2.5" + 4 nvme but i have much less than that
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05:30 < rnkn> JUCE framework does not compile on OpenBSD :(
05:31 < rnkn> it's not a targeted system so I gues I should not have got my hopes up
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08:31 < avemestr> Can it be, that none of the usb-wireless network interfaces support 802.11n but maxes out at 802.11g? https://man.openbsd.org/usb#Wireless_network_interfaces
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08:39 < avemestr> Due to the underlying ieee80211(9)...
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08:49 < avemestr> Hopefully the OpenBSD Foundation will shower stsp with money, so he gets a chance to keep improving the qwx driver! :D
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11:05 < PaulFertser> Hi there! This is my first exposure to OpenBSD so I would appreciate a bit of hand holding. I have a few simple questions and one that might be really tricky, so I'll start with the easy ones.
11:05 < PaulFertser> My target board is Pinebook Pro based on Rockchip RK3399 (arm64).
11:08 < PaulFertser> 1. There were essentially two different hardware revisions, what I call pre-pandemic (components shortage) and post-pandemic. I have the latter and it comes with a different SDIO module soldered, requiring different firmware. brcmfmac43455-sdio.bin gets loaded and works fine but a txt file is also needed. There's a txt file from the module vendor but also just renaming
11:08 < PaulFertser> "brcmfmac43455-sdio.raspberrypi,3-model-b-plus.txt" works too. How do I discuss and propose a change to make this working as intended?
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11:10 < sibiria> maybe sending a patch for that to the mailing list, or bringing it up on the Arm mailing list
11:12 < PaulFertser> Do I have to somehow prove that the txt file from the vendor is redistributable?
11:13 < PaulFertser> What's better, sending the patch or trying to discuss it first on that mailing list?
11:14 < sibiria> it must be redistributable within openbsd's license scope to be included in the base system at least
11:14 < sibiria> but not as external firmware
11:15 < sibiria> just bringing it up on the Arm mailing list should be enough to get discussions going, should any of the developers want to pick up on the topic
11:15 < PaulFertser> The bin file is only downloaded by fw_update anyway, so including the txt in the base (even if legally possible) would not be fruitful I guess?
11:16 < sibiria> if the main firmware is external then the txt file belongs there too
11:17 < PaulFertser> But am I expected to somehow actually prove it's redistributable?
11:18 < sibiria> i don't think there's any officially established process :) but i'm sure providing the info won't hurt
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11:20 < PaulFertser> (another simple q) 2. It looks like miniroot76 lacks the drivers for display hardware so I was only able to communicate with the board via serial console. However after installation was finished the new kernel detected and properly handled the integrated display and keyboard. Is this to be expected, is that how it should be or is this a bug?
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11:24 < sibiria> that sounds normal. in the case of some Arm boards and the miniroot, you can enable a software framebuffer by doing "set tty fb0" and then "boot" at the boot prompt
11:25 < sibiria> and in some cases you will be doing that by guessing when you're on the boot prompt... it can be fiddly
11:25 < PaulFertser> That's the point, the kernel had no framebuffer at all.
11:26 < sibiria> what i'm saying is that on some Arm boards you need to explicitly enable it on the boot prompt before the kernel loads
11:26 < PaulFertser> Also it looks like the boot> preloader only listens on serial anyway. Is it supposed to be using EFI console or not?
11:26 < sibiria> i can't recall if the rk3399 is one of those
11:26 < PaulFertser> Hm, I'm afraid I'm not following.
11:27 < sibiria> the bootloader starts. it gives you a "boot> " prompt and waits a few seconds for input before it proceeds with loading the kernel
11:27 < PaulFertser> Is "set tty" command actually affecting which drivers get activated? Because I didn't have framebuffer in miniroot even after fully booting. So that's not about tty afaict?
11:27 < sibiria> this is the point where you can give some input
11:28 < sibiria> yes you're redirecting the tty from serial to framebuffer
11:28 < PaulFertser> _If_ there is a framebuffer.
11:29 < sibiria> *if* that SoC can accommodate, yes
11:29 < PaulFertser> It can, after install there is a framebuffer and it works.
11:29 < sibiria> i'm talking about then and there, on the miniroot
11:30 < PaulFertser> Yes, in the miniroot there was no framebuffer at all, dmesg was different, no sign of loading anything that could handle the hardware.
11:30 < sibiria> please read:
11:31 < sibiria> the miniroot kernel will not be using the framebuffer driver (fb0) by default on some of those Arm boards. you will need to instruct it to do so at the boot prompt
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11:32 < PaulFertser> And what does "will not be using" here imply? Not calling its init functions at all? Or not attaching a tty to it?
11:32 < sibiria> the pine a64 is one example where this works. by default the whole process goes over serial. but if you interrupt the bootloader and tell it to "set tty fb0" before booting, you will have video output over hdmi when installing
11:33 < PaulFertser> Yeah, but that's sunxi, different vendor so probably different set of software/hardware quirks involved.
11:33 < sibiria> the pine a64 isn't the only Arm board where things are like this
11:33 < sibiria> instead of debating it, why not trying if the rk3399/pbp behave the same with openbsd''s miniroot?
11:34 < PaulFertser> Is that boot> loader reading "etc/boot.conf" on the partition it was loaded from? I tried putting that command there and it changed nothing.
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11:34 < sibiria> for reasons i don't fully understand, it doesn't always work to put those things in etc-boot.conf
11:35 < sibiria> pine a64, again, is an example of that. the only way i could ever get video output during miniroot install on my board was by explicitly telling it to on the boot prompt
11:35 < PaulFertser> OK, let me put the question another way: is the miniroot kernel built with exactly the same options as the one that gets to run after install?
11:35 < sibiria> no it's different
11:35 < sibiria> small and compact
11:35 < PaulFertser> So you can take a quick look at the options and tell if it includes rockchip video bits or not probably?
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11:36 < sibiria> it's not gonna contain rockchip's DRM
11:37 < PaulFertser> Is that a policy for miniroot kernel to include only some real simple fb drivers but not DRM?
11:37 < sibiria> it will contain a rudimentary EFI framebuffer thing - the one you can redirect to by "set tty fb0"
11:37 < sibiria> it's a decision they made long ago. miniroot is small, compact, etc... barebones thing
11:38 < PaulFertser> But should that EFI framebuffer driver even try initialising/probing without that boot option?
11:39 < sibiria> maybe? i don't know. it may be that the bootloader itself has no idea what platform it's running on and can't make a decision
11:39 < PaulFertser> (I'm still assuming tty is one thing and framebuffer is another and you can have use for a framebuffer without tty attached to it)
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11:40 < PaulFertser> The bootloader surely had the idea and it was displaying stuff on screen and messages from boot> too.
11:41 < sibiria> a tty isn't specifically serial. in today's terms it's a virtual console
11:41 < sibiria> a terminal emulator etc.
11:41 < PaulFertser> BTW, the current version offers some rather old 2021 U-boot which doesn't even support keyboard input on that platform. When I tried booting it with a reasonably new version the kernel hanged at ohci init. Is it supposed to be normal and people just stick to U-boot version as soon as they get something working and keeping it up to date is not worth it?
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11:42 < sibiria> no idea why it's using that old u-boot. maybe some custom changes to make things work. i know you can't use e.g. tow-boot on the PBP to boot openbsd
11:42 < PaulFertser> By "tty" I meant anything that behaves like a tty device from userspace point of view. So yeah, it can be serial, it can be virtual terminal or it can be a pty created by sshd.
11:43 < PaulFertser> And so I do not see any reason how tty settings should or can affect framebuffer devices.
11:43 < sibiria> you should let the developers know
11:43 < sibiria> they probably care a lot about your perspective
11:44 < sibiria> and by all means, absolutely do not attempt to "set tty fb0" on your pbp boot prompt to see if it's one of the platforms where this works
11:44 < PaulFertser> I did attempt that and that did nothing.
11:45 < PaulFertser> I'm not trying to force my perspective. Quite the opposite, I want to be educated. That's why I'm asking if that option affects the kernel calling driver init for the framebuffer or not.
11:46 < PaulFertser> Also, as I said, with old U-Boot as shipped by OpenBSD I'm not able to interact with that boot> prompt using the integrated keyboard.
11:46 < sibiria> https://man.openbsd.org/man4/simplefb.4
11:46 < sibiria> tty. terminal emulator. framebuffer
11:47 < mps> I'm also new to openbsd (though I installed it previous year on apple silicon) and want to try it on RK3399 samsung chromebook gru-kevin
11:47 < sibiria> the tty could be a speaker doing morse code if somebody so wanted
11:48 < mps> this device don't have serial port to access it so I'm curious is it possible to use intall76.img
11:48 < PaulFertser> Do you mean the DT for my board should be specifying simple-framebuffer section but probably lacks it?
11:49 < sibiria> i don't know.
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11:50 < PaulFertser> I'm really new to OpenBSD so I have no way to learn that fast, hence asking.
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11:50 < sibiria> the pbp is one of several arm boards the principal openbsd developer sort of abandoned after providing initial support, so you may be stuck
11:52 < PaulFertser> Hm, why so? The schematics are available, there is some working code in Linux for inspiration, why might I be stuck? I'm afraid I do not follow the reasoning yet.
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11:59 < sibiria> possibly a lack of time and interest
11:59 < uwharrie> anecdotes are that it's not a very reliable or usable system and people get tired of the growing pile of quirks that must be dealt with
11:59 < PaulFertser> mps: with that chromebook is https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/hdctools/+/master/docs/ccd.md#suzyq-suzyqable not working to give serial?
12:00 < sibiria> uwharrie: no i think it's something habitual. the pbp works great with linux
12:00 < PaulFertser> uwharrie: you mean RK3399 in general or PBP specifically?
12:00 < sibiria> the developer has a tendency to move on to the next platform as soon as "it boots", kinda
12:00 < uwharrie> the pbp
12:01 < PaulFertser> In my opinion PBP hardware is horribly designed. My best guess is that people doing it had neither motivation nor clue. It's really as if "makers" got access to production lines and were asked to make a laptop out of SBC.
12:02 < PaulFertser> But my questions are not PBP-specific.
12:02 < sibiria> it's certainly wonky, but it gets the job done as a very light desktop setup...at least with linux
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12:04 < PaulFertser> (another simple question) 3. I noticed when Xorg blanks the display the backlight stays on. Is that expected for devices where backlight is not part of the video hardware or is some relevant option lacking in board DT or is it a bug in a driver probably?
12:05 < mps> PaulFertser: I don't have this cable and not sure I can make it myself
12:05 < PaulFertser> mps: the page I linked to says anyone can make it seems
12:07 < mps> PaulFertser: Yes, but need some tools and some extra parts
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12:07 < PaulFertser> Working on anything embedded without serial access is real pain for little gain, so unless you're really forced to better to avoid in my experience. Flying blind is always 10x harder and here it's a matter of finding two resistors and cutting two cables, so nothing special is needed.
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12:09 < mps> PaulFertser: I have some SBCs around and I have serial cables and similar things, but not sure will it be worth to do same from chromebooks
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12:10 < mps> just want to try if openBSD could work on this old chromebook, and if it works is it usable
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12:10 < PaulFertser> mps: I'm afraid even if it boots you won't see it without serial.
12:11 < mps> PaulFertser: anyway I could try blindly
12:13 < PaulFertser> So what exactly are the requirements for that simplefb driver to work? Is it supposed to be getting the information from U-Boot or does something need to be hardcoded in the DT?
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12:16 < sibiria> bootloader needs to see it from what u-boot hands over
12:17 < sibiria> there were one or two patches suggested for that and other things relating to the PBP
12:17 < sibiria> but the developer never reciprocated on any of them
12:17 < sibiria> consequently they have not been merged
12:22 < PaulFertser> And then the kernel picks it up from bootloader?
12:24 < PaulFertser> I would appreciate few links to actual source code, we can discuss the existing implementation directly, right?
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12:28 < PaulFertser> Again, I'm very new, I do not have it all at my fingertips, being not familiar with the system I have no idea where and how to look to answer questions like that.
12:29 < sibiria> https://tomscii.sig7.se/2022/03/Patches-for-OpenBSD-on-the-PinebookPro
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12:38 < PaulFertser> sibiria: are you telling me that PBP U-Boot is doing fine and it's the efi bootloader limitation that it doesn't know how to handle "PixelBitMask" PixelFormat in the data passed by U-Boot and that alternatively manually specifying "simple-framebuffer" node in the DT would work too?
12:39 < sibiria> i don't know which of the two is the actual culprit
12:41 < mps> PaulFertser: found that install76.img can't boot on chromebooks because it is not formatted with CGPT (Chrome GPT0
12:41 < mps> s/0/)/
12:43 < PaulFertser> mps: RK3399 boot ROM doesn't care about partitioning. It first checks whether there's a bootloader on NOR flash connected by SPI, if not, tries to load bootloader from 64*512 at the eMMC host controller, if not, tries the same from SD card. None of that involves GPT.
12:45 < PaulFertser> sibiria: I'm not following. Either I understood the code the same way as you or not. For me it /looks/ clear so why do you have hesitations?
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12:45 < mps> PaulFertser: right, but chromebooks have their first stage bootloaders which search for CGPT. Even u-boot must be flashed on such specific partitions
12:45 < sibiria> i never read or tried the patches, and i don't know what the u-boot that e.g. debian or manjaro distributes for the pbp is like
12:46 < PaulFertser> sibiria: but I'm using U-Boot that OpenBSD distributes.
12:46 < PaulFertser> mps: well,
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12:47 < mps> If I know how to use u-boot I compiled to boot openBSD kernel - but I have no idea how
12:47 < PaulFertser> mps: do chromebooks bootloaders offer at least some kind of EFI environment? It's not like you can't manually "bootefi" the OpenBSD bootloader (the one printing "boot>" prompt) if you run U-boot from elsewhere, not necessarily the SD card with install or miniroot image.
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12:48 < mps> PaulFertser: chromebooks bootloader are made to boot kernel packaged in FIT file
12:49 < PaulFertser> mps: with U-boot you boot just the OpenBSD bootloader, see https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/arm64/INSTALL.arm64 , search for "If the U-Boot target supports bootefi but not automatically finding it"
12:49 < mps> but this FIT file could be also be u-boot which then loads kernel
12:49 < PaulFertser> mps: you need U-Boot with EFI support , then tell it to boot efi/boot/bootaa64.efi
12:50 < PaulFertser> And /that/ should be able to find and boot the real kernel.
12:50 < mps> PaulFertser: I guess I will have to repack openBSD image
12:52 < PaulFertser> sibiria: I can not understand why you're making it that hard for me, you could have just gave a reference to the simplefb driver source code where it does the probing and told me "see, it expects a DT node".
12:52 < sibiria> making it hard for YOU? stupid narcissist
12:53 < PaulFertser> mps: why? All you need is to boot U-boot version that has "bootefi" command support (part of upstream U-boot since long) anyhow somehow from any media. Then that U-boot clearly understands MBR so you can use install76.img without any changes, just by telling U-boot how to load the DT and bootaa64.efi.
12:55 < PaulFertser> sibiria: yes, I assume it's easy and fast for someone who is into OpenBSD to give a direct code reference instead of vague statements or incomplete docs. I do it all the time myself with Linux and userspace software I'm familiar with. Source code is the ultimate answer about how the system works after all.
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12:58 < mps> PaulFertser: I understand this concept but not sure I will try in near future (free time restrictions). I can run openbsd on apple silicon and learn about it there
12:59 < mps> I'm u-boot maintainer on alpine linux
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13:10 < seninha> oof
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16:42 < ym> Why OpenBSD 7.5 gives pppoe0 the same local IPv6 address another interface has when I configure it with inet6 eui64?
16:43 < ym> PPPoE connection is via re1 and pppoe0 gets IPv6 address based on re0's MAC.
16:44 < ym> %pppoe0 suffix is there, but anyways this seems strange.
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16:58 < thrig> because it was coded that way
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17:08 < quinq> What other address would it use?
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17:10 < ym> First non free in fe80?
17:10 < ym> s/non//
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17:10 < ym> I thought the algorithm is to try random and check if it's already taken.
17:11 < thrig> there are various specifications, one of which is to use the mac
17:11 < PaulFertser> For link local addresses the MAC of the interface is normally used because it's guaranteed to be not taken for that lan segment to work properly at all.
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17:11 < thrig> *unlikely to be taken (not guaranteed)
17:12 < ym> PaulFertser, but it takes MAC of another interface.
17:13 < ym> Not the one via which PPPoE connection established.
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17:16 < PaulFertser> ym: good point, for wired Ethernet there's https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2464 which says LL address is derived from MAC address. Let's check what RFCs say about PPPoE.
17:17 < quinq> 18:13:12  ym$ Not the one via which PPPoE connection established.
17:17 < quinq> no? oO
17:17 < quinq> It does here
17:18 < quinq> oh, re1 / re0, I misread
17:18 < quinq> (or rather missed that)
17:18 < quinq> Yeah that's weird, maybe an actual bug?
17:20 < PaulFertser> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5072#section-4.1 "If an IEEE global identifier (EUI-48 or EUI-64) is available anywhere on the node, it should be used to construct the tentative interface identifier due to its uniqueness properties."
17:23 < PaulFertser> So if you try to establish another PPPoE sessiono via re0 and it uses same re0 MAC then it won't be "unique to the link" and that looks like violating RFC then.
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17:24 < ym> PaulFertser, https://gist.github.com/yvm/9f4fdb73540fbd40110770edd0ceba42
17:25 < ym> Don't know how to make it more clear further.
17:25 < ym> PPPoE session is not via re0.
17:26 < PaulFertser> ym: yes, it's clear now, the question is whether it violates RFC or not. And probably it will if you establish sessions via both interfaces but they'll both stick to using re0 address.
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18:45 < ym> Yes, second PPPoE session via re0 (fist is via re1) creates pppoe1 interface and inet6 autoconf gives it same IPv6 address, with appropriate %pppoe1 suffix.
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19:08 < PaulFertser> ym: then indeed it sounds like a bug worth reporting as the RFC says "interface identifier SHOULD be chosen such that the value is unique to the link"
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19:29 < vortexx> ym: https://www.openbsd.org/report.html if you'd like to report this as a bug
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23:48 < dfdx> I finally figured out my httpd+rsyndc+ssl issues. 
23:48  * dfdx sinks into his chair
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23:54 < oxbar> it alwsys feels good to figure something out when you been pulling your hair out 
23:56 < vortexx> dfdx: please post your config if you could please so we can have references for later
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 28 00:00:40 2024