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03:02 < ssm_> 🐧  🔫🐡
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07:14 < dlg> anyone here use traffic shaping in pf?
07:15 < zelest> I do add "set prio X" on various rules, but that's it
07:16 < zelest> not setting up any queues or anything
07:17 < dlg> k
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07:53 < mischief> dlg: a tiny bit, mostly for tcp ack prio
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07:54 < dlg> ive got changes in that area coming up
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07:55 < dlg> but i want people who use it to tell me if it breaks stuff
07:56 < mischief> is the diff up?
07:56 < dlg> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=172983303216472&w=2
07:56 < dlg> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=173011856619193&w=2
07:59 < mischief> that seems pretty reasonable to me
07:59 < dlg> me too
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08:00 < renaud> dlg: I use some basic one for tcp ack, probably like mischief 
08:00 < lts> Oooooh queues over 4Gb! Thank you
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08:00 < renaud> match on $ext_if proto tcp set prio (3, 7)
08:00 < dlg> but just need people to speak up if it breaks
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08:04 < renaud> apart from being more straightfoward, do you expect those patches to make any difference?
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08:07 < renaud> I am not sure how it would affect memory consumption
08:08 < hexabit> Part
08:09 < hexabit> sorry :D 
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08:09 < dlg> neither are that worrying frmo a memory consumption perspective
08:09 < dlg> the bw specification one changes the representation of bw in ioctls, which is a layout change which breaks compatability
08:09 < dlg> but the kernel already uses uint64_ts in the stuff it operates with
08:10 < dlg> so the memory consumption at runtime is the same
08:10 < dlg> the real concern for both is if we lose spare bits that are relied on during mathematical calculations
08:11 < mischief> is there anything that actually reads those bandwidth structures besides pfctl
08:11 < dlg> systat qu does
08:11 < mischief> i remember them being very deep in the nested goo of the ioctl structures
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11:38 < rnkn> I'm trying to rsync from macOS to OpenBSD with `rsync --rsy rsync -av --delete --exclude .git/ /Users/rnkn/Documents starbeastie:backup/sevastopol
11:38 < rnkn> sorry, rsync -av --delete --exclude .git/
11:39 < rnkn> and I'm getting `openrsync: syntax error in received rules`
11:39 < rnkn> surely there's no syntax error in '.git/'?
11:45 < rnkn> okay it's the --delete option, it succeeds without --delete.... but why??
11:45 < sibiria> probably because it's openrsync
11:45 < sibiria> it's rudimentary
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12:25 < sinvet> remiliascarlet, hi, you mentioned that you use PinePhone, which OS you run on it ?
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12:32 < pardis> rnkn: how is this invoking openrsync? the openrsync binary is not called rsync, so it won't be used by default
12:33 < pardis> have you done something weird with your system?
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13:59 < opv> I'm inside a 7.6 live shell and trying to format a flash drive as RAID so I can use it as keydisk in the installer. However neither fdisk nor disklabel find the drive, even though the installer shows it. What am I missing?
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14:00 < opv> Nevermind, needed to run MAKEDEV, all good
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17:11 < remiliascarlet> sinvet: PostmarketOS.
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17:19 < sinvet> remiliascarlet, which gui ?
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17:21 < sibiria> "the visual basic gooey"
17:22 < sinvet> sibiria, there are multiple options for postmarketos
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17:34 < mps> pmOS is based on alpine linux, so everything from alpine could run on it
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18:07 < sinvet> mps, yeah, but user experience feedback is useful as there many options for different distros on pinephone, some of them incomplete
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18:15 < mps> sinvet: I'm talking about pmOS only
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18:22 < sinvet> mps, yeah but it still has multiple mobile suitable guis, some are more advanced
18:22 < sinvet> mps, and some are unsuitable for mobile even if youre able to install them
18:23 < sinvet> mps, according to https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=PinePhone_Software_Releases there are (Phosh, Plasma Mobile, Sxmo, Plasma Desktop, Gnome 3, Kodi, XFCE4) options
18:25 < morpho> what is this?
18:25 < sinvet> morpho, a little bit offtopic
18:25 < morpho> like android with Gnome?
18:26 < sinvet> morpho, no its linux
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18:26 < morpho> on a arm64 phone im guessing?
18:26 < sinvet> gnu/linux
18:26 < sinvet> yeah pinephone
18:26 < morpho> aactually, if its based off alpine linux
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18:26 < morpho> it would not be GNU
18:26 < mps> sinvet: I know, I installed XFCE on nokia N900, and even awesome wm to play with it
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18:26 < morpho> alpine is busybox + musl :^)
18:27  * mps is alpine developer
18:27 < sinvet> morpho, perhaps you're right, my bad
18:28 < morpho> mps i almost installed alpine this morning 
18:28 < morpho> its really cool, thankyou
18:28 < mps> for some time I dream about alpine with BSD kernel
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18:29 < RobbieAB> mps: You said you are an alpine developer, make it happen! :)
18:29 < mps> morpho: you are welcome
18:29 < mps> RobbieAB: if I know enough about BSD kernel, but I don't
18:30 < RobbieAB> Awww. :(
18:30 < morpho> mps would it be bsd libc though?
18:31 < morpho> or musl still
18:31 < sinvet> mps, so which GUI you use for postmarketOS ?
18:31 < mps> morpho: it must be, afaik musl will not work on BSD
18:31 < sinvet> on pinephone
18:32 < mps> sinvet: no, I don't have pinephone, only phone I used pmOS is nokia N900
18:32 < metala> Q: I've just had my first install of OpenBSD. On reboot "staritng network daemons" hanged on smptd, then I've got (timeout) sndiod. Can I get them started in parallel w/ xenodm?
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18:32 < sinvet> mps, oh I see, my bad
18:33 < mps> sinvet: np
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18:35 < metala> Ok.. interesting I've just rcctl disable sndiod, yet "starting network daemons" is still hanging after smtpd
18:36 < thrig> is DNS broken? SMTP daemons like to make DNS requests
18:36 < opv> How can I check if my CPU supports AMD SEV from inside running OpenBSD system? I'm grepping through `sysctl -a` output but not finding anything that would match
18:37 < metala> hmm... good point. I've just removed the domain part from /etc/myname and maybe it's getting an NX from my local recusrive dns
18:37 < thrig> maybe the cpuid port can dig that out
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18:42 < metala> Thanks! The smtpd was timing out, I had pressed LF and (timeout) was on the next line with sndiod, which got me confused. I will troubleshoot the smtpd now. Nothing on /var/log/daemon, though.
18:43 < lucas> opv: dmesg is the usual place, not sysctl. That being said, SEV support is being actively worked on, and idk the current status.
18:43 < opv> lucas: yeah, my cpu reportedly supports it but vmd won't work with it
18:45 < thrig> modern SMTP daemons may fare... poorly... sending email with the domain unqualified
18:49 < Bradipo> I still use an unmodern SMTP daemon, without too much hassle.
18:50 < thrig> Sendmail run in this most modern and progressive of ages would also fare poorly if unqualified hostnames are used
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18:51 < Bradipo> I'm not sure why, an unqualified hostname should be handled correctly if sendmail is configured correctly.
18:52 < RobbieAB> Bradipo: Big conditional in there. ;)
18:52 < Bradipo> Though, if you're refering to the mess that is SPS and DKIM, perhaps.  I don't know since I don't really use them.
18:52 < Bradipo> I also haven't used sendmail in many moons, so it's possible that Sendmail is no longer possible to configure correctly.
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18:54 < thrig> it's fine, if you qualify the hostname, etc
18:54 < RobbieAB> Finding documentation on sendmail these days is a challenge, IME. I also don't get the impression many places are deploying sendmail as a new option, most opting for alternatives (or just buying a SaaS option)
18:55 < Bradipo> And here we are using communication technology that is almost as ancient as SMTP. :-)
18:57 < metala> if I have a choice I'd try qmail as MTA, but I usually stick to defaults.
18:57 < opv> RobbieAB: I have found most people are afraid of running their own mail servers and prefer to go the SaaS route
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18:58 < thrig> qmail+patches to deal with various modernisms, probably
18:58 < Bradipo> metala: I've been running qmail for years.  Still works.
18:59 < Bradipo> But, people hosting their own email is certainly a dying breed.  Even Solene has decided against it (for the present).
19:04 < sibiria> fcrdns and spf feels like it's the very least anyone can do if self-hosting. neither is complicated
19:04 < sibiria> same with dmarc
19:05 < sibiria> goes a long way
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19:05 < Bradipo> To each his own.
19:05 < sibiria> they are just simple dns records. being able to get emails out to the recipients seem like a rational case for bothering
19:06 < Bradipo> I agree that proper DNS configuration is necessary.
19:06 < metala> If I could guarantee availability I would, however mine are either on shared hosting or a postfix container in cloud provider. Also setting DNS PTR, I've never done that at home and I am not sure I can do it easily.
19:06 < Bradipo> You don't have to do it "from home".  You could just as easily have a VPS and then "tunnel to home".
19:06 < sibiria> metala: almost no ISP offers that for residential connections, unfortunately. and it's the most important step
19:06 < Bradipo> That way the "external world" sees your VPS, but really it's talking over a tunnel to "home".
19:07 < Bradipo> But, if SPF and other things are so great, why is PTR even still an issue?
19:07 < Bradipo> Honestly...
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19:08 < Bradipo> If one has DKIM, then there's really no point to validating PTR or what you call FCrDNS.
19:08 < metala> Bradipo: that's something I will keep in mind. I've been already thinking of tunneling part of my internal SOHO network through a VPS.
19:09 < sibiria> fcrdns is the correct term. ptr is just one component of it
19:09 < sibiria> dkim is something entirely else
19:09 < sibiria> and it's not that spf isn't great. it really is, and a very effective tool. but fcrdns comes from a time before that, and it was back then a simple and efficient solution to weed out spamming coming from malware living on residential connections
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19:10 < Bradipo> Yes, I know what fcrdns is... I've never heard it called that before.  When did it become "the correct term" for it?
19:10 < sibiria> verifying fcrdns today makes less sense. it's an unfortunate remain
19:10 < metala> sibiria: yep, just as I thought. I need to speak to my ISP.
19:11 < Bradipo> My SMTP server does not make any policy decisions based on fcrdns, however, it does impose a greeting delay on those who don't have it.
19:11 < Bradipo> e.g. if your don't have fcrdns, then you'll have to wait for the SMTP banner.
19:11 < Bradipo> Other than that, if you're willing to wait (which most spammers are not) then that's fine.
19:11 < sibiria> Bradipo: PTR record != FCrDNS. the latter is the case of your advertised hostname's A/AAAA record having a PTR record that maps back to your hostname. the "full circle"
19:11 < Bradipo> I know that.
19:11 < Bradipo> What makes you think I don't know that.
19:12 < sibiria> you confusing it for just the PTR portion
19:12 < Bradipo> I use tcpserver with -p (aka paranoid mode or in "modern" terms fcrdns).
19:12 < Bradipo> http://cr.yp.to/ucspi-tcp/tcpserver.html
19:12 < Bradipo> It's been a thing much longer than the term fcrdns has been "correct" for it.
19:12 < metala> djb <3
19:13 < Bradipo> I'm not confusing it with PTR, you just think my use of it was confusing.  I can agree with that.  It's not complete to just say PTR.
19:13 < Bradipo> Until now, I've called it paranoid mode. :-)
19:13 < Bradipo> Now I can use fcrdns.
19:14 < Bradipo> Any host that doesn't pass the paranoid test (e.g. fcrdns) incurs the waiting cost.
19:17 < sibiria> verifying it doesn't hurt. but it sure has a lot less point to it these days when SPF is around
19:17 < Bradipo> Right.
19:17 < Bradipo> That's what I was suggesting above.
19:18 < Bradipo> So, I'll continue to verify it because I find it more valuable and easier to verify than SPF. :-)
19:18 < sibiria> would be better if "Big Email" decided to stop bothering with FCrDNS qualification and hard-enforce SPF
19:18 < Bradipo> Gmail does hard-enforce SPF now.
19:18 < Bradipo> Gmail proper, not Gmail hosted domains.
19:18 < Bradipo> Gmail hosted domains still have it under their own control.
19:19 < Bradipo> And no, I would not wish for "big email" to solve problems.
19:19 < Bradipo> They really just make more of them, and all to keep their cartel going.
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19:20 < Bradipo> "big email" does not care about their "customers".
19:20 < sibiria> so do they really enforce it, and discard emails from hosts that have no SPF record?
19:20 < Bradipo> Yes, they do.
19:20 < Bradipo> Gmail now requires either SPF or DKIM.
19:20 < Bradipo> One of them has to be present or they reject the email.
19:20 < Bradipo> Of course, their customers are unaware of this.
19:21 < Bradipo> Again, this is only for @gmail.com.
19:21 < sibiria> mhm
19:21 < Bradipo> This is not for Gmail hosted domains.
19:21 < Bradipo> I believe it's still an option for Gmail hosted domains to make their own choice in this regard, but I don't know it for a fact.
19:22 < thrig> even more fun is when half your users are in outlook, and half in gmail, and gmail and outlook are having a snit
19:22 < Bradipo> lol
19:22 < Bradipo> And neither can resolve it because neither has any kind of real relationship with their customers.
19:22 < Bradipo> That's because the relationship is your data and "big email".
19:22 < sibiria> well, that's good imo. SPF takes but a minute to set up, and really is to be considered complete authorization of the submitting MTA
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19:23 < Bradipo> I've never bothered with verifying SPF.  Don't need to.  Other less onerous means are more effective.
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19:25 < sibiria> verifying DKIM satisfies the same, more or less. both are similarly "complex" to set up on the receiving end
19:25 < sibiria> but i meant having an SPF record, to make sure one's submissions pass as authorized
19:25 < Bradipo> Right.
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19:27 < metala> sibiria: how do you treat domains with SPF that has ~all ?
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19:28 < Bradipo> What does ~all mean?
19:30 < metala> accept the email from unlisted ip but mark as insecure/spam
19:31 < Bradipo> I don't know why we need SPF for that. :-)
19:33 < Bradipo> My biggest complaint about how @gmail.com went about doing it is that they don't bother looking at other useful and verifiable information.
19:33 < metala> the default would be -all, but I think my colleague was using some external mailing service at some point and as a result I had to add this.
19:33 < Bradipo> For example, if they want to reject email on domains that has no SPF, why not at least bother to see if the email is being delivered *from* the legitimate MX record for that domain and give it a pass?
19:33 < Bradipo> Seems like they have an agenda to push rather than care about their "customers" receiving emails.
19:34 < Bradipo> I could live with "we will only accept email from the MX record if no SPF record is present".
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19:34 < Bradipo> That's a good faith measure.
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19:35 < sibiria> metala: for both spf and dkim, if one fails, i tag it as suspicious so that i can at least inspect it to be sure
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19:36 < sibiria> if i were to host mail for someone else than just myself, i'd go with eventual dmarc record's instructions
19:36 < sibiria> as for my own spf- and dmarc record, i go with a strict 100% reject
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19:37 < Bradipo> I guess I'll never be able to email you.  Oh well. :-)
19:37 < sibiria> you will but it'll get a red scary label ;)
19:37 < Bradipo> Good thing we have other archaic modes of communication at our disposal.
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19:39 < Bradipo> sibiria: I already make my emails have a big scary label by including the X-message-flag header. :-)
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19:40 < Bradipo> X-message-flag: Outlook---a program for virus transmission.  And it also does email.
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19:40 < sibiria> "portable malware host"
19:41 < Bradipo> Looks like they finally got tired of people abusing it: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/office/developer/exchange-server-2003/ms875195(v=exchg.65)
19:41 < Bradipo> Or maybe that notice is just becausxe it's "old documentation".
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19:54 < ssm_> This browser is no longer supported.    Upgrade to Microsoft Edge to take advantage of the latest features, security updates, and technical support.
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20:14 < oldlaptop> Google Edgium.
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20:18 < Bradipo> Edgy Googlium?
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21:49 < ssm_> have an issue where empty directories, and maybe even files vanish in my mfs partition... hope my memory isn't going bad :(
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21:57 < thrig> there is a hole in your mind
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22:00 < ssm_> >_>
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22:00 < ssm_> must be the microplastics
22:01 < thrig> the Babylon 5 actor the line was directed to had a medical problem
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22:19 < metala> I've added pipewire through pkg_add, but the "undefined symbol 'tss_<smth>'" in libspa-support.so. Why are there dep. issues for a package installed with pkg_add?
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22:22 < uwharrie> are you running a release or snapshots? did you recently upgrade the OS but not the packages?
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22:25 < metala> just installed obsd 7.6 a few hours ago.
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22:27 < metala> i'll try pkg_add -Uu
22:27 < metala> It doesn't seem to do anything.
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22:50 < metala> interesting... firefox was waiting for a DNS timeout for a query to <machine's hostname>.
22:52 < metala> it's the same reason why smptd does not start and times out. I've added the hostname to /etc/hosts and now everything is snappy
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23:49 < rnkn> pardis: sorry I have an alias rsync='rsync --rsync-path=openrsync'
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23:50 < rnkn> seems to be this same issue: https://github.com/kristapsdz/openrsync/issues/27
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 30 00:00:35 2024