--- Log opened Sun Nov 17 00:00:08 2024
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00:02 < ssm_> port
00:03 < ssm_> looks like a bouncer, though the homepage is dead
00:04 < surrounder> polarian: https://git.suckless.org/sic/
00:04 < polarian> suckless 
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00:04 < polarian> now you know its decent :P
00:04 < surrounder> and its little brother ii 
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00:06 < polarian> might take a look 
00:07 < polarian> openircd when?
00:10 < vortexx> won't
00:10 < vortexx> the devs hide over on calgary uni chat using an irc predecessor who's name escapes me right now
00:11 < polarian> talking about uni 
00:11 < vortexx> so there's no itch to scratch
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00:11 < polarian> I should see if I can get a group of people at uni to use IRC 
00:11 < polarian> I doubt I can get even one to 
00:12 < ssm_> polarian: correct me if I'm wrong, but this irc channel isn't even official. primary openbsd comms are on the mailing list
00:12 < polarian> ssm_: I am aware :)
00:12 < polarian> openircd was a joke :/
00:12 < polarian> of course it wouldn't happen 
00:13 < polarian> plus ngircd is a good lightweight ircd which works well for small irc communities 
00:13 < vortexx> it is Saturday, a bit of humour is needed
00:14 < ssm_> looks like net/ircd-hybrid is the closest ircd to the original that's currently ported
00:14 < ssm_> vortexx: skibidi
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00:14 < vortexx> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Citizen%27s_Band
00:15 < vortexx> icb
00:16 < vortexx> (they may have moved on from that, but I'm not in the know)
00:16 < polarian> vortexx: a few beers you mean?
00:16 < polarian> or in my case, cider.
00:17 < polarian> I like beer too, but cider is more appealing when at home
00:17 < polarian> before someone accuses me of not being a real BSD user because I don't like beer -_-
00:18  * ssm_ is drinking beer right now
00:19 < vortexx> cider is enjoyable, but I drink wine on Saturdays
00:19 < vortexx> ssm_: not heard of skibidi as software
00:19 < vortexx> just some lame song a few years ago
00:20 < ssm_> vortexx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKjxeZo74Wg
00:21 < vortexx> no thanks
00:21 < ssm_> they're selling it at target and walmart
00:21 < ssm_> $50
00:22 < vortexx> no places I have access to, at least for now
00:22 < vortexx> not expecting to visit the states till next year
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00:39 < polarian> ssm_: what beer?
00:39 < polarian> vortexx: never been a fan of wine :/
00:41 < tux0r> i'll go visit the london whisky show in 2024, because beer needs a good companion
00:41 < tux0r> *2025
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00:43 < polarian> what London whiskey show 
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00:43 < polarian> Whiskey is nice, but I mix it with coke/pepsi, and always get mocked for it :()
00:43 < tux0r> there is only one 
00:43 < tux0r> well, yes, rightfully so
00:43 < polarian> :(
00:43 < polarian> I should try it neat, but it tends to make me vomit 
00:43 < tux0r> depends on the whisky
00:44 < polarian> I like the flavour, I can't take the strength 
00:44 < tux0r> try an aberlour
00:44 < polarian> I think it could potentially be trauma from erm...
00:44 < polarian> how do I put this without breaking opsec
00:44 < polarian> lets just say I have drank IPA before 
00:44 < polarian> not the beer
00:45 < tux0r> IPA?
00:45 < polarian> Isopropyl Alcohol 
00:45 < polarian> (toxic)
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00:45 < vortexx> polarian: depends on the wine. Can be an acquired taste... you'd probably need to do some tasting
00:45 < vortexx> but if beer does you well you're fine too
00:46 < polarian> tux0r: but the burning sensation reminds me of it and can make me feel really sick obviously 
00:46 < polarian> if your body thinks you ingested something toxic, it will throw up
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00:46 < tux0r> ugh
00:46 < tux0r> sounds like you shouldnt have done that
00:46 < polarian> tux0r: the thing is I like the flavour of whiskey 
00:46 < vortexx> as for whisky, you need 14+ year old stuff if you want to drink that neat
00:46 < polarian> I just wish it didn't make me feel sick
00:47 < polarian> I know some people mix it with a bit of water
00:47 < vortexx> which may not be within your financial reach
00:47 < vortexx> or ice
00:47 < vortexx> ice is better usually
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00:48 < tux0r> vortexx: there is awesome 9-year-old whisky
00:48 < tux0r> but yes, i usually drink 11+
00:48 < tux0r> ALSO, water only for cask strength
00:48 < tux0r> and ice sucks
00:48 < tux0r> it needs warmth to expand its flavors
00:48 < polarian> hmm
00:48 < polarian> I like it cold too lol
00:48 < tux0r> physics.
00:49 < polarian> drink it with whiskey stone 
00:49 < phy1729> Getting off topic again
00:49 < polarian> phy1729: not my fault this time though :)
00:49 < polarian> tux0r: #openbsd-social?
00:49 < polarian> although me and vortex are having a political convo there :P
00:50 < tux0r> well, then i'd rather opt out
00:50 < tux0r> politics make me angry.
00:50 < vortexx> nah we can talk drinks over 
00:50 < vortexx> no more pol stuff
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01:37 < jfsimon> ssm_ tux0r correct the forum engine, does the job so far
01:40 < oldlaptop> polarian: I think "OpenBSD people" tend to care more about "can I use this?" than "does this license match my chosen ideology?"
01:40 < oldlaptop> permissive licenses are used because they make the answer to that question "yes" for as many people in as many context as possible
01:40 < oldlaptop> *contexts
01:41 < oldlaptop> for most random people in the context of wasting time on IRC, GPL or whatever is generally going to meet the "can I use this?" test just fine
01:43 < oldlaptop> (whether you choose to sink effort into *contributing* to something is a different matter)
01:43 < polarian> oldlaptop: depends who you talk to 
01:43 < polarian> I have met one or two permissive absolutists 
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01:47 < ssm_> polarian: <never been a fan of wine :/> good thing wine doesn't work on openbsd
01:48 < ssm_> polarian: beer was some weird key lime pie sour ale
01:48 < ssm_> didn't like it the first time but the second time it's okay
01:49 < vortexx> I'm half surprised we don't have some piece of software called beer by now
01:49 < oldlaptop> Wow. Utterly shocking. https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=beer&category=&maintainer=
01:50 < oldlaptop> Even debian doesn't.
01:50 < ssm_> oldlaptop: <I think "OpenBSD people" tend to care more about "can I use this?" than "does this license match my chosen ideology?"> I first and foremost look at the programming language
01:50 < polarian> ssm_: nice joke :P
01:50 < polarian> re: wine not working on bsd ^^^
01:50 < oldlaptop> ssm_: That seems even sillier, if anything. (is that the point?)
01:50 < oldlaptop> Except insofar as it can possibly inform "can I use this?" in a technical sense
01:51 < ssm_> it's silly? I don't want to use something that imports firefox or a massive graphical toolkit as a dependency if I can avoid it
01:51 < ssm_> ITT browsh
01:51 < oldlaptop> Neither of those really has anything to do with the programming language.
01:51 < ssm_> s/programming language/dependencies
01:53 < ssm_> programming language too though, I build ports so I can avoid rebooting on -current and spending multiple hours building rustcc or llvm is a pain
01:54  * oldlaptop doesn't see how building ports avoids rebooting
01:55 < ssm_> packages falling out of sync with base
01:55 < ssm_> I could upgrade base in place I guess
01:55 < oldlaptop> That would mean waiting multiple hours for llvm to build.
01:56 < ssm_> I mean unpacking the base tarballs
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01:56 < ssm_> sets
01:56 < oldlaptop> (Not that this is a particularly sane use case anyway, I wouldn't think? What's the concrete reason to avoid rebooting?)
01:56 < ssm_> don't want to lose my session :(
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01:59 < ssm_> also I have a bunch of custom ports, and every time I upgrade I rebuild them
02:04  * xse likes to keep the amount of stuff that even needs building minimal, just a few packages and scripts that can happily live in ~/bin
02:08 < ssm_> ports I rebuild are mostly ports I made myself or maintain (graphics/FastNoiseLite, graphics/fast_obj, www/pipe-viewer, net/i2psnark games/stone-soupe), I have 2 ports I use newer versions of than in-tree (games minetest, games/cataclysm-dda), and I have a port of www/badwolf with my own hacks
02:09 < ssm_> it takes around 20-30 minutes to build it all after upgrade if I use FETCH_PACKAGES=-Dsnap and MAKE_JOBS=$(threads)
02:11 < xse> aww stone-soup! great memories i need to give a graphical tiles version a try!
02:11 < ssm_> it might be very different now from what you remember
02:12 < xse> must have changed a bit sure :p
02:15 < ssm_> food's gone, curses are gone (minus ash), gods are largely reworked, attacks of opportunity (makes kiting harder), transmutations has been reworked into shapeshifting/talismans, venomancer is now alchemist and takes the remaining transmutation spells, lots of species replacements
02:15 < ssm_> just to name a few
02:17 < thrig> meddling wizards
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02:35 < ssm_> I need more Zot lore
02:37 < dlg> like the car?
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02:40  * xse Succumbed to a kobold brigand's curare-tipped dart
02:40 < xse> i missed that :p
02:43 < thrig> the kobold didn't
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02:44 < xse> :')
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09:05 < quinq> I don't get IPv6 routing since update to 7.6 with no configuration change :/
09:06 < quinq> Hummm, and it actually just started working as I typed this in.
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10:14 < mischief> quinq: did you turn on dhcp6leased?
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10:17 < quinq> mischief, I don't use DHCP6
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12:24 < rkta> what's the way to block certain user agents using httpd?
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14:32 < quinq> rkta, most likely relayd
14:34 < rkta> I just blocked the IP ranges in pf. Suckers at amazon...
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18:36 < polarian> so... I got into a little debate and need to check if im sane. Someone is pushing that all public servers should reboot monthly at least (preferably daily or weekly) and if the distro/OS doesn't have weekly kernel updates its insecure and cant be used
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18:37 < polarian> now OpenBSD doesn't get patches weekly, sometimes not even monthly, by their standard OpenBSD wouldnt be secure enough to become a public server
18:37 < polarian> is it just me or is this insane?
18:38 < polarian> (Linux-lts has weekly updates, which is what they are basing it off)
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18:49 < phy1729> That's someone who's used to a memory leaking code base assuming everything must leak
18:52 < betabug> does "not having weekly updates" mean that huge gaping leaks are sitting around for a couple of weeks?
18:52 < betabug> or does it simply mean "there will be an update if one is necessary, which isn't that often"?
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18:53 < phy1729> Frequency of updates is a bad metric. What matters is time from a known issue to it being patched.
18:56 < betabug> exactly
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19:05 < thrig> too high a frequency might indicate that the code is no good
19:06 < betabug> sshhhhhhh, don't say it! ;-)
19:06 < thrig> (if you've ever scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and scrolled through the 'Microsoft' section of the weekly CVE report
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19:19 < vortexx> rebooting weekly or monthly is a windowsism more than anything else, and sometimes those practices leak into linux world via people who had to learn linux but originally trained on windows...
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19:20 < thrig> I often reboot unix systems (how do you know they'll boot without failing at some annoying hour of the day?)
19:21 < thrig> or that special linux fileserver that didn't have enough memory to run fsck on, luckily that was found during a proactive test
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19:54 < phy1729> It can also be a containerism to force devs to not keep local state.
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20:00 < thrig> or the netflix chaos monkey thing were you break stuff (and then maybe learn that your so-called redundant routes are not redundant)
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 18 00:00:10 2024