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01:10 < mischief> huh. i setup gitea in a vm, and it is unable to git clone the linux kernel within the configured 20 minute timeout. :-(
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01:39 < oldlaptop> the linux kernel is kinda big
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01:42 < mischief> yea, i ended up cloning the main repo first and then swapping it to the stable repo (which was what timed out)
01:42 < mischief> but now i have mirrors of openbsd and linux on my gitea instance \o/
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01:54 < mischief> 10 minutes to clone from the local gitea instance. :v
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11:21 < remiliascarlet> Oh, I figured out how to get pkg_add to work on my PowerBook G4 again: PKG_PATH=ftp://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages/powerpc/ doas pkg_add -ui
11:22 < remiliascarlet> Because by default it tries to look into /pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages-stable/powerpc/ for whatever reason, which doesn't exist.
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11:29 < sibiria> the reason it looks there first is to find updates to the versions built for -release
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11:30 < sibiria> but it's an unfortunate bug that it croaks if it can't find the -stable path
11:30 < quinq> send-a-paaatch
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12:26 < GwenNelson> quick question - how can i create a world-writeable append-only file?
12:26 < GwenNelson> when i set the uappnd flag, it looks like only root can write to it
12:28 < quinq> What's the uappnd flag?
12:29 < IcePic> quinq: "man chflags"
12:29 < quinq> Yeah did my homework and just found it ^_^
12:29 < quinq> Thanks IcePic 
12:29 < GwenNelson> yeah, i'm using chflags
12:30 < GwenNelson> problem is that as soon as i set the uappnd flag, it resets the perms so only the owner or root can write to it
12:30 < quinq> It says “uappnd  set the user append-only flag (owner or superuser only)”
12:30 < IcePic> GwenNelson: that seems to be what it was made for
12:30 < quinq> Guessing that means only owner or superuser can use it then
12:30 < GwenNelson> damn, so no way to make it world-readable?
12:31 < GwenNelson> i'm gonna have to write a setuid wrapper i guess
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12:34 < quinq> Out of curiosity, what's the use-case?
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12:35 < GwenNelson> quinq: i'm building a pubnix and it's for a traditional file-based chat
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12:35 < GwenNelson> the idea is that users append their chat lines to a file while also doing tail -f
12:36 < quinq> ok, nice :)
12:36 < GwenNelson> i'm thinking of giving up and just running an ircd
12:36 < quinq> Yeah…
12:36 < quinq> Would that work with concurrent access?
12:36 < IcePic> could you have a writeable socket somewhere, then it gets read by a daemon/program which can append-only to its file
12:37 < quinq> You might be interested in ii, which kind of does that, but over an IRCd (https://tools.suckless.org/ii/)
12:37 < GwenNelson> IcePic: yeah, it'd be pretty simple to have a daemon do it
12:37 < GwenNelson> quinq: partly inspired by ii
12:38 < quinq> ok :)
12:38 < GwenNelson> ii uses FIFOs, and a frontend named lchat
12:38 < GwenNelson> i'm modifying lchat
12:38 < IcePic> I would also think out a method to rotate it, otherwise it will be huge after a long while
12:38 < GwenNelson> IcePic: obviously
12:38 < GwenNelson> though i wonder how much disk space it'd really take up if it's just plaintext
12:39 < GwenNelson> about a decade of IRC logs came to approx 1GB according to a friend
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12:39 < quinq> My ~4yo logs of #openbsd, which isn't necessarily the most verbose chat, is ~80MB
12:40 < IcePic> GwenNelson: not much, but also consider how big it could be if someone pipes urandom via base64 encode into this pipe
12:40 < quinq> The other 10 years are somewhere else, but would amount to the same proportion
12:40 < GwenNelson> IcePic: okay, good point 
12:40 < GwenNelson> i need to have a daemon that can sanitize stuff
12:41 < quinq> Can be a fun project, but sounds like what IRC already solved ;)
12:41 < IcePic> not saying all users will be evil, but it takes only one starting it when you are away a few days
12:41 < GwenNelson> quinq: IRC requires an ircd
12:42 < GwenNelson> also it generally involves a heavier client
12:42 < quinq> Slightly
12:42 < GwenNelson> though suckless's ii is nice i guess - i could just wrap that up
12:42 < GwenNelson> but it feels like giving up
12:42 < quinq> Well, again, can be fun
12:43 < quinq> If just to re-discover by yourself the potential issues, and how to overcome them
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12:44 < GwenNelson> also, i just want to do this the traditonal UNIX philosophy way - lots of small programs and some glue
12:44 < GwenNelson> hmm, netcat -U only takes the first connection
12:44 < GwenNelson> err, -lU i mean
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12:45 < GwenNelson> yeah, i'd better actually code this daemon in a real language
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12:45 < quinq> while :; do nc -l foo; done
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12:47 < GwenNelson> or -k
12:47 < GwenNelson> okay, an idea is starting to come together
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12:48 < GwenNelson> i can basically have the "daemon" be a shellscript that does nc -lkU and pipe the output to the logfile, and the clients just connect, send a line, disconnect
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12:54 < GwenNelson> got a hackish implementation working, wooo
12:55 < quinq> gg :)
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14:18 < GwenNelson> so, what's cwm like?
14:19 < sibiria> barebones and sometimes annoying. but it gets the job dobe
14:19 < sibiria> done*
14:19 < GwenNelson> how's it compare to twm et al?
14:19 < quinq> different
14:19 < GwenNelson> i don't know if i should bother learning to use it
14:20 < quinq> I don't know either :/
14:21 < sibiria> i've never used twm. all i know it has a bit more functionality than cwm
14:22 < GwenNelson> for truly minimal setups it's my fav
14:22 < GwenNelson> *fave
14:22 < GwenNelson> but i recently tried hyprland and hypr - tiling magic
14:24 < quinq> Not on OpenBSD
14:25 < GwenNelson> no other tiling WMs available? cos i only just "got" tiling
14:25 < sibiria> i don't think twm is a tiling window manager. but it might offer that function as well
14:25 < armani> I use spectrwm, in ports
14:25 < GwenNelson> twm doesn't tile
14:26 < __gilles> you could take on my legacy and revive fion :p
14:26 < armani> __gilles: oh hey oh
14:26 < GwenNelson> too lazy
14:26 < __gilles> hey armani :-)
14:26 < armani> __gilles: fion toi même
14:27 < quinq> haha, hé ho !
14:27 < sibiria> GwenNelson: i think sway is in the repo
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14:27 < sibiria> with no info on how working-or-not it is
14:28 < armani> dangerous road ahead
14:28 < GwenNelson> i've only used sway on my pinephone
14:28 < quinq> Best slipery slope
14:28 < GwenNelson> speaking of pinephone - is it safe to run obsd on it yet? last i heard it lacks support for thermal management
14:29 < quinq> You can use it safely during winter
14:29 < GwenNelson> lol
14:29 < sibiria> "handwarmer"
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14:29 < quinq> depends where you put it
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14:31 < GwenNelson> should i put it down my knickers?
14:31 < sibiria> go for it
14:31 < sibiria> it's *your* phone
14:32 < GwenNelson> true, but last time i did that, it was on a video call with my boyfriend
14:32 < GwenNelson> he's dumped me now
14:32 < sibiria> best keep it in the backpack or pocket then
14:32 < GwenNelson> lol
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18:35 < digitalrane> GwenNelson, re: tiling wms, has anyone suggested i3 to you yet? sway is basically a wayland version of i3, last i checked i3 is in ports
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18:40 < tux0r> stumpwm is the only good tiling wm
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18:52 < l0rd_hex> tux0r: that is a lie and you are a liar for saying it
18:52 < tux0r> no.
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19:13 < anexit> How can I keep a steady throttle here;
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19:14 < anexit> https://paste.fuckingjuniper.com/?0b87be55b7c138b3#r4vWe5F+eJVRjvIxBn2/ZD+tfQbE4uKq/9gHCgPsQlg=
19:14 < anexit> jumping around from 1- 11
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19:22 < l0rd_hex> anexit: your firewall goes to 11?
19:23 < pony> why not just make 10 more secure
19:23 < l0rd_hex> heh
19:23 < pony> :)
19:24  * l0rd_hex gives pony a tasty carrot
19:24 < l0rd_hex> ^
19:24  * pony noms carrot
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19:24 < anexit> bandwidth at the firewall is only 100mb
19:25 < anexit> which is what... 8 mb net
19:25 < sibiria> 11-12
19:25 < anexit> yeah
19:25 < l0rd_hex> queue std on em3 bandwidth 55M <-- how come 55?
19:25 < anexit> so this person is blowing out line up
19:25 < anexit> haha
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19:26 < anexit> l0rd_hex I bumped it to 100
19:27 < l0rd_hex> and this crap-smelling lobster who is using all the bandwidth is 10.0.6.134?
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19:28 < anexit> yup
19:28 < anexit> and surprising.. she looks like one from her photo
19:28 < anexit> HAHA
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19:28 < l0rd_hex> keep clear of that crusher-claw son
19:28 < l0rd_hex> personally I'd do a match to assign them to the developer queue
19:29 < l0rd_hex> my guess is that it's an order issue in you config
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19:30 < anexit> this is what throws me off;
19:30 < anexit> https://paste.fuckingjuniper.com/?927d2fb123e67558#dOfI7dwd4SSmmlG5ju6vszrruHQPSWm3Qyufuci2kdc=
19:30 < anexit> but iftop tells a different story.
19:30 < l0rd_hex> what about your ole pal pfctl?
19:30 < anexit> thats what I'm showing
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19:31 < anexit> pfctl -s queue -v -v
19:31 < anexit> 2.85/MB/s
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19:31 < l0rd_hex> and you have "queue developers parent std bandwidth 2M max 3M flows 200 default"
19:31 < anexit> Yep
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19:32 < l0rd_hex> is the user wearing a hat?
19:32 < anexit> so maybe it is working
19:32 < anexit> no a man bun
19:32 < l0rd_hex> hmm
19:33 < l0rd_hex> keep in mind there are other ways to clog a pipe than bandwidth 
19:33 < anexit> udp?
19:33 < l0rd_hex> like the time theo(7) flushed his keys down the toilet
19:33 < sibiria> choking upstream = downstream chokes, too
19:35 < l0rd_hex> you should always have a safeword before choking bandwidth 
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19:35 < l0rd_hex> 4 _OR_ 8 byte words
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19:38 < anexit> Gotcha
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19:40 < anexit> bwm-ng is showing the correct queue set
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19:40 < anexit> so iftop must be boning me here... pfctl show it correctly as well.
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19:43 < l0rd_hex> I'm personally suspicious of network tools that aren't in base since a lot of them are written for Linux and might not be pf-aware
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19:44 < sibiria> shouldn't matter. pf sits between application and the MAC. it will affect the application sending/receiving and it will affect statistics from sniffing the interfae
19:44 < sibiria> interface*
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19:47 < l0rd_hex> I suppose so but with the lack of /proc and /sys I think most apps are just making ioctl calls 
19:49 < l0rd_hex> **generic ioctl calls
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20:02 < thrig> Berkeley sockets being a thing, unlike other forms of networking
20:02 < l0rd_hex> they're quite similar to sockettes
20:03 < sibiria> what's the current rationale for letting dhclient/dhcpleased stay on berkeley sockets and entirely outside the owner's control?
20:03 < l0rd_hex> you mean like a unix socket?
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20:04 < sibiria> no, bpf
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20:08 < l0rd_hex> sibiria: I dunno what you mean... like listening on udp/68?
20:09 < sibiria> dhclient speaks over bpf. dhcpleased speaks over bpf. pf can't wrangle their traffic
20:11 < sibiria> "dhcp should always work" is a possible reason. but i find the choice problematic
20:11 < l0rd_hex> I think maybe because of their ISC herritage 
20:11 < l0rd_hex> heritage?
20:11 < l0rd_hex> the extra r is for redundant
20:15 < thrig> mostly not broken, probably a lot of annoying work to fix, no tuits, etc
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20:20 < l0rd_hex> sibiria: that's a good question but I assume it's because it was originally written by ISC and ported (versus written from scratch by OpenBSD devs), like @thrig said if it's not broken it's not a priority to fix, although I agree with your assessment of it being problematic 
20:23 < sibiria> dhcpleased was written from scratch. i think the choice to stick with bpf was to not alter expected behavior
20:23 < sibiria> which i don't entirely understand because in pursuit of security, openbsd constantly alters behavior
20:24 < l0rd_hex> in the mean time, I'd recommend wearing a long sleve shirt and plenty of sunscreen when fetching dhcp leases .. oh and rinse the leases under cold tap water before using
20:24 < sibiria> moving to regular network path and adding a permissive rule in the default pf.conf would've been better
20:25 < l0rd_hex> sibiria: dhcpleased's source include bpf.c/.h which florian imported but it was written by Archie "stay outta Riverdale" Cobbs
20:26 < l0rd_hex> so I guess they decided to keep it
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20:28 < l0rd_hex> the bpf code does put dhcp packets back on the wire so pf could deal with dhcp packets (as long as you're not using dhcpleased) and if you are dhcpleased gives you enough options (I suppose) to filter (like the interface option)
20:30 < l0rd_hex> I asked Florian about it but he said "please stop trying to kick the stall door open, I'm using the bathroom"
20:30 < l0rd_hex> I _tried_ to ask I mean
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20:38 < kuzdra> hi. i believe i've read somewhere (faq or man pages) that usernames prefixed with an underscore get a special treatment. maybe that they can't be used for logins or something? did i dream it up? otherwise, point me at a man page, please
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20:49 < dayid> kuzdra: Not a manpage, but a quick google: 
20:49 < dayid> It's related to a OpenBSD convention, mentioned in the book "Absolute OpenBSD, 2nd Edition: Unix for the Practical Paranoid" (p. 103)
20:50 < dayid> So you may have to mailing-list dive for historic primer rather than manual page dive for it.
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20:55 < kuzdra> dayid: right on. it must be indeed where i saw it when i skimmed the book /-: thank you!
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20:59 < thrig> someone on Debian, meanwhile, was learning why numeric usernames is a kinda bad idea
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22:09 < Manis> Numeric usernames are a disaster, yes. Every utility handles it differently.
22:10 < thrig> someone else put unicode into a username, but then nobody could login as the login displayer thingy crashed
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22:36 < Manis> Haha no.
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22:50 < tommyrot> unicode is never a good idea
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 10 00:00:41 2024