--- Log opened Tue Dec 10 00:00:41 2024
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00:34 < yang3> I tried to compile and build several programs on loongson/mips64el...some builds were successful, but mostly they would fail, because of Python dependancy. I tried to build Python, but it results in a fault - https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d02092b3/
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00:44 < brynet> yang3: "Fatal: /usr/ports/pobj must be on a wxallowed filesystem (in lang/python/2.7)"
00:48 < yang3> what does it mean "wxallowed FS" ?
00:49 < yang3> drwxr-xr-x    70 _pbuild  _pbuild   2048 Dec 10 01:13 pobj
00:55 < brynet> It means /usr/pobj needs to be either a seperate filesystem, mounted wxallowed. The flag is documented in mount(2). Some software in the ports tree violates mandatory W^X mitigation during build.
00:55 < brynet> https://man.openbsd.org/mount#wxallowed
00:56 < brynet> /usr/local is also mounted wxallowed to handle this for installed ports/packages.
00:57 < brynet> err, either a seperate filesystem, or you'll need to change the options for the underlying filesystem, which in your case means /usr. Not recommend.
00:57 < brynet> recommended*
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01:05 < yang3> ok, thank you for clarifying
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07:42 < IcePic> perhaps an mfs mount even, if only to make python compile
07:44 < IcePic> yang3: also, you might take a peek at the m88k list of packages I built, since gcc3-based m88k has an even smaller list of working ports, so if they built on m88k, it should build on your box aswell
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08:39 < moviuro> Hi all, on my 7.6 amd64 machine, I have the dhcpcd package inst:dhcpcd-10.0.10v0 . I have a cronjob that runs: `/usr/sbin/pkg_add -vunI|/usr/bin/grep 'Adding'|/usr/bin/grep -v 'Adding quirks-'`. That job reported that an update to dhcpcd is available (dhcpcd-10.1.0v0.tgz). I am using PKG_CACHE=/var/cache/pkg (both in crontab(5) and in my zshrc) ; that new package is there. However, when running `#
08:39 < moviuro> pkg_add -Uu`, nothing happens, no updates to dhcpcd are installed.
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08:49 < mischief> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages/amd64/dhcpcd-10.0.10v0.tgz is the only available one, so clearly there is no upgrade
08:50 < moviuro> mischief: https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages-stable/amd64/dhcpcd-10.1.0v0.tgz
08:55 < mischief> right. maybe if you add a few -v's pkg_add will tell you more
08:58 < moviuro> nothing caught my eye https://x0.at/iaSV.txt . I don't even get where the pkg DB or list is fetched from (installurl(5) is https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD
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09:10 < kuzdra> moviuro: maybe there is some PKG_* var set in your interactive env that inteferes with checking -stable packages?
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09:28 < moviuro> env|grep -i PKG --> PKG_CACHE=/var/cache/pkg
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09:48 < mischief> perhaps your pkg cache is confusing it. what if you run without it?
09:52 < moviuro> mischief: unset PKG_CACHE; pkg_add -vvvvUu # no dice, same output https://x0.at/tsOL.txt
09:53 < kuzdra> moviuro: i've just tried installing the old version 10.0, then pkg_add -uU updated it to 10.1 just fine. i used PKG_CACHE. i don't have much other ideas other than what mischief said (if your cache is somewhat corrupt (maybe file modes or smth)); and perhaps pkg_check can identify something?
09:54 < moviuro> pkg_check -vvvvi; echo $? # 0
09:56 < kuzdra> moviuro: just a crazy thought: are you absolutely sure version 10.1 isn't installed already? (-:
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09:58 < moviuro> pkg_info|grep dhcpcd # dhcpcd-10.0.10v0    DHCPv4/IPv4LL/IPv6RS/DHCPv6 quad stack client
10:04 < kuzdra> okay, another thought... (i'm all guessing here, because i have little experience with this matter.) the new version of dhcpcd was uploaded about a day ago. you use a CDN. could it be your cronjob hit a mirror with a new version and report&downloaded it, but now your manual 'pkg_add -u' hits another mirror which doesn't have an update yet?
10:05 < kuzdra> it must be checking the SHA256 manifest file first, i suppose. so, if it's so, maybe your cached new package isn't picked up
10:05 < moviuro> kuzdra: the file's timestamp is not correct, it has been online for a few days already
10:05 < kuzdra> point installurl to a specific mirror where you can see for sure the new package exists, hmm?
10:06 < moviuro> kuzdra: did that, same result (https://ftp.ec-m.fr/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages-stable/amd64/)
10:07 < kuzdra> sigh
10:10 < kuzdra> i mean, you can 'pkg_add $PKG_CACHE/dhcpcd-10.1.0v0.tgz' if you really need to have a new version, but it'll destroy the evidence for further debugging and investigation. i'm really curious to find out the cause here now
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10:13 < kuzdra> moviuro: perhaps drop a mail to misc@/bugs@ too?
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10:25 < moviuro> it's crazy, it really looks like crontab operates in its own parallel dimension :/
10:26 < moviuro> in crontab(5): /usr/sbin/pkg_add -vunI # dhcpcd upgrade is available and dry-run. in my shell, /usr/sbin/pkg_add -vunI # nothing to do
10:26 < kuzdra> your crontab seems to operate in our shared dimension. there *is* an update indeed. it's your shell that doesn't pick it up for some reason
10:28 < moviuro> ls -l $(which pkg_add) # /usr/sbin/pkg_add -> /usr/bin/true
10:28 < moviuro> (that's a joke)
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10:36 < mischief> moviuro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
10:36 < kuzdra> moviuro: what if you run pkg_add in a clean env? i.e. 'env -i pkg_add -un'. keep your installurl pointing to the specific up-to-date mirror too
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10:37 < kuzdra> maybe you have some http caching proxy in the way?
10:38 < moviuro> I'm using an HTTPS installurl
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10:48 < moviuro> kuzdra: env -i /usr/sbin/pkg_add -vvvUunI # behaves differently in crontab(5) and in my session. In crontab, the newest version is fetched (pretending). Nothing happens in the shell (nothing to do) (tested with sh, ksh, zsh). So yeah, something very weird is going on.
10:50 < kuzdra> weird. cosmic rays and bit flops /jk. just curious, you running stable, not current, right?
10:50 < moviuro> yes, stable. I find just about enough bugs as-is
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11:10 < Posterdati> hi
11:10 < Posterdati> please help, does vmd support AMD E2 3200 APU? Thanks!
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11:11 < oldlaptop> I'm not going to make any confident statements without seeing an actual dmesg, but "probably"?
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11:12 < mischief> easy to test. try to start a vm :)
11:13 < kuzdra> Posterdati: also https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq16.html#Prerequisites
11:13 < oldlaptop> looking it up, that's one of the earliest "APUs" (K10 core), so if any of them won't work it'd probably be that
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11:13 < sibiria> it needs more than just basic AMD-V
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11:13 < oldlaptop> yes
11:13 < sibiria> the AMD equivalent to EPT, whatever their name is
11:14 < kuzdra> SLAT
11:14 < sibiria> SLAT is the generalized name yeah
11:14 < oldlaptop> cat core APUs (AIUI) should mostly have it, but K10? (I'd say "probably not" seeing that)
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11:14 < sibiria> RVI, is what AMD calls it
11:15 < mischief> i can't find it on amd website, which means it's old
11:15 < sibiria> Posterdati: it should be easy enough to find CPU feature flag list for that model on the internet. "RVI" is what you want
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11:15 < mischief> here's a nickel kid, get yourself a ryzen
11:15 < sibiria> "join the winning team"
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11:16 < oldlaptop> mischief: K10 would be ~15 years ago
11:16 < oldlaptop> same core as "Phenom"
11:17 < mischief> oh so not old, more like one foot in the grave
11:18 < kuzdra> moviuro: could you ping me when/if you find out something more about your problem, please?
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11:24 < Posterdati> sibiria: RVI is enabled in that cpu, but vmd gave this error on start: vmd: vmd: re-exec requires execution with an absolute path
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11:25 < sibiria> maybe your vmd.conf is just bad
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11:30 < Posterdati> sibiria: ah ok
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11:42 < emmanuelux_> fresh install of openbsd VM in hyper-v of windows 11 last update (24H2) => no net (net ok in install program, but not after boot) : in fact no tcp connection to wan, udp and icmp ok, tcp to wan with other rdomain ok so I use route -T30 exec), if someone can test ? (I have tested ubuntu VM and it is OK)
11:43 < PaulFertser> moviuro: I suggest you try running "ktrace -f /tmp/ktrace-cron.out -tcitxX /usr/sbin/pkg_add -vunI" there in cron and that will produce /tmp/ktrace-cron.out file to process with "kdump -f /tmp/ktrace-cron.out" same about the invocation from shell. Then you can pastebin both traces for us to see what's actually different.
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11:56 < Posterdati> sibiria: it does not work
11:57 < Posterdati> sibiria: vmd: vmd: re-exec requires execution with an absolute path
11:58 < sibiria> rcctl -f restart vmd
11:59 < Posterdati> vmd(ok)
11:59 < Posterdati> thanks
11:59 < Posterdati> what was the problem?
12:00 < sibiria> only you can know :)
12:00 < sibiria> guessing your config, or that you tried to start vmd manually
12:00 < Posterdati> lol no erro 
12:00 < Posterdati> no I used rcctl restart vmd
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12:00 < sibiria> if you haven't enabled vmd you need to force (-f) start/stop actions
12:01 < Posterdati> I did rctl enable vmd 
12:01 < Posterdati> before
12:01 < sibiria> enabling doesn't imply starting
12:01 < Posterdati> yes I told you
12:01 < Posterdati> I used rcctl restart vmd
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13:09 < mischief> ever since i saw a bunch of syn's to port 80 a few days ago from ip blocks in china i started filtering them with pf
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13:10 < mischief> in roughly 2 days there's 6.5 million blocked packets
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13:28 < moviuro> PaulFertser: https://try.popho.be/dumps/ktrace-cron.out https://try.popho.be/dumps/ktrace-notcron.out -- from my very limited delving into those, -notcron has lots of "ftp: Writing -: Broken pipe" which seem to be an issue.
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13:39 < moviuro> nvm, both have the same number of broken pipes. Really out of my depth here, waiting for the experts' insights now
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14:35 < PaulFertser> moviuro: it looks like in the cron case it detects on statup that stdout (fd 1) is not a TTY (because it's piped) but when you run interatively it is. Probably that's the only real difference after all?
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14:47 < moviuro> PaulFertser: NB we're using pkg_add -I (force non-interactive)
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14:49 < PaulFertser> moviuro: and yet in the notcron case it clearly checks for it being tty and starts showing "|****   " progress bars etc.
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14:54 < PaulFertser> moviuro: hm, actually I see another difference, I'm searching for "dhcpcd-10" and I see how in the cron case it has that updated version so there must be something else too.
14:56 < moviuro> 08      14      *       *       *       /usr/bin/env -i /usr/bin/ktrace -f /tmp/ktrace-cron.out -tcitxX /usr/sbin/pkg_add -vunI # taht's what generated the trace
14:56 < moviuro> so there really *shouldn't* be anything else! at all!
14:56 < PaulFertser> Somehow it's getting dhcpcd-10.1.0v0.tgz href only in the cron case
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15:02 < PaulFertser> moviuro: so in one case (cron) it's looking at /pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages-stable/amd64/ and in another just /pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages/amd64/ , looks like that's where the difference is from.
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15:04 < PaulFertser> Nope, disregard that
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15:05 < moviuro> kdump|grep packages-stable returns a lot more results on -notcron dump ?..
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15:06 < moviuro> does pkg_* have a default cache directory somewhere? Or anything that would leave traces (not idempotent)
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15:08 < PaulFertser> I made a mistake but not adding "n" to the -t flags so unfortunately the log doesn't show file names.
15:10 < moviuro> # /usr/bin/env -i ktrace -f /tmp/ktrace-notcron.out -tcintxX /usr/sbin/pkg_add -vunI ?
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15:11 < PaulFertser> moviuro: there's a cache https://www.openbsd.org/papers/eurobsdcon2023-espie-cache.pdf and probably setting CACHING_VERBOSE can give even more debug
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15:27 < PaulFertser> moviuro: yes, and I suggest you redirect input and output for pkg_add when running interactively too while creating a kdump so there's more direct comparison.
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15:41 < moviuro> change of behavior! when running pkg_add in /tmp , it finds the update. When running in /root, it doesn't
15:45 < vortexx> moviuro: possibly because /root isn't meant to be accessible to most processes
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16:05 < kuzdra> moviuro: that's news! see which of the too cases is special (an exception to other CWDs)
16:05 < kuzdra> also, how do you run pkg_add from shell?-- interactive root shell, doas, ..?
16:06 < moviuro> interactive shell as root
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16:08 < kuzdra> also, can we focus on a scenario where PKG_CACHE isn't used first? IIRC you said setting/unsetting PKG_CACHE in shell didn't make a difference: 'pkg_add -u' still didn't work. so just to stick to a simple scenario for now and leave more configuration option out for now
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16:09 < moviuro> kuzdra: I was using `env -i pkg_add ...`
16:09 < moviuro> -i      Causes env to completely ignore the environment it inherits.
16:09 < kuzdra> okay, cool
16:10 < kuzdra> let's see what's changed the last behaviour: being out of /root or being inside /tmp
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16:11 < moviuro> so cwd being /root causes the issue. It doesn't happen if cwd is /usr, /var or /tmp
16:11 < kuzdra> i.e. try a few other work dirs... ah okay!
16:13 < kuzdra> what's your /root filemode? i.e. "ls -d /root"
16:14 < kuzdra> ls -ld /root #rather
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16:16 < moviuro> drwx------  6 root  wheel  1024 Dec 10 17:16 /root
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16:39 < moviuro> I can't reproduce the issue on my OpenBSD.amsterdam machine... what is going on?...
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16:40 < kuzdra> moviuro: that's what we've been trying to figure out all day (-: i'm still checking a few ideas here in the meanwhile
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16:40 < Bradipo> What is it that you're trying to figure out exactly?
16:41 < moviuro> # env -i pkg_add -Uu # says there's nothing to do on one of my machines if CWD is /root
16:41 < moviuro> (NB: there is a dhcpcd update available)
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16:44 < Bradipo> Ahh, interesting.  I never use `pkg_add -Uu`.
16:44 < Bradipo> Which version of OpenBSD?
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16:49 < moviuro> 7.6 (stable)
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16:51 < moviuro> the difference between both machines I can think of: the machine where I encounter the issue only has a root account that I use (remote login with ssh publickey). The openbsd.ams machine has a user account (ssh login with key) where I can `su -` to root.
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16:55 < Bradipo> Did -v with pkg_add give any more information?
16:55 < sibiria> why do you run pkg_add with a zero environment?
16:56 < Bradipo> And that was also my next question.  Why `env -i` ?
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16:58 < sibiria> also you don't need -U when updating with pkg_add -u. -U is used when you provide a new package name for installation
16:58 < moviuro> sibiria: make sure "nothing" interferes with pkg_add
16:59 < moviuro> Bradipo: nope
16:59 < sibiria> if you do "su -l" you'll start with a clean slate
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17:00 < sibiria> are you sure the reason you're not finding the update on one machine isn't because it's simply connecting to an outdated mirror?
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17:00 < sibiria> you could try use a specific mirror rather than the CDN if that's the case
17:00 < moviuro> no, both machines connect to the same mirror : https://ftp.ec-m.fr/pub/OpenBSD - it's in installurl(5)
17:01 < moviuro> https://ftp.ec-m.fr/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/packages-stable/amd64/dhcpcd-10.1.0v0.tgz
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17:03 < kuzdra> moviuro: what's your mount output? i'm interested to see if your /root is on a mount point (and not part of /)
17:03 < moviuro> https://x0.at/PDEo.txt kuzdra 
17:04 < sibiria> moviuro: ls -l /var/db/pkg/dhcpcd*
17:04 < moviuro> https://x0.at/2jCm.txt
17:05 < moviuro> (the '*' was expanded)
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17:05 < sibiria> i wonder if maybe there's a goof-up in the version comparison thing in pkg_add
17:05 < sibiria> 10.0.10v0 is a mouthful
17:05 < kuzdra> sibiria: we've been looking into this issue all day. we checked a mirror theory. you may see other options if you got logs.
17:06 < kuzdra> so far it boiled down to a fact that the update is found when pkg_add is run outside of /root, and it's not found when inside /root
17:06 < sibiria> does it behave the same if you do only:  su -l; pkg_add -u
17:07 < sibiria> no trickery with environment inheritance etc.
17:08 < kuzdra> sibiria: we started off cron vs shell. update was reported from cron, but not found via shell. we added 'env -i' because moviuro been using PKG_CACHE. so it was just an idea to rule out potential env var interference
17:08 < moviuro> yes sibiria , su -l; pkg_add -un # doesn't report anything. su -l; pkg_add -u # doesn't *do* anything
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17:09 < kuzdra> moviuro: thanks. yeah, unfortunatelly that (mount) configuration does not fit my other theory
17:09 < moviuro> bog-standard partition scheme from the auto installer
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17:51 < kuzdra> ahhhhhhhh moviuro! i have a good candidate for the problem lol
17:52 < kuzdra> mv /root/dhcpcd-10.0.10v0.tgz{,.bak} # and try again (-;
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17:54 < kuzdra> pkg_add(1) reads: "... pkg_add will use ‘./:installpath’ as a default." and you got the old package tarball in /root, a place that causes your troubles
17:56 < PaulFertser> Yeah, I see your /root has ".//dhcpcd-10.0.10v0.tgz" from this log and that'l likely making a difference.
17:57 < PaulFertser> Interesting, and it's even a documented behaviour? Feels nasty, probably there's a space for improvement there as it's not at all obvious and the results are plain weird.
17:58 < PaulFertser> Nice job finding that spot in the man kuzdra :)
17:59 < kuzdra> PaulFertser: thanks (-: i remembered reading about it while while trying to figure out PKG_PATH and what's "repository" (for my recent mail to misc@ and todays investigation)
18:00 < kuzdra> it's indeed odd. perhaps "." shouldn't be in default, just like it's not recommended in a regular PATH. i wonder about rationale and use cases for that
18:01  * kuzdra is impatient to hear results from moviuro
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18:11 < PaulFertser> kuzdra: yes, please raise this up on the mailing list. Updates (without specifying any specific package name) shouldn't be using current directory I think, that's just confusing and hence insecure.
18:12 < Bradipo> Well, it's documented in the man page, yeah?
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18:18 < PaulFertser> Bradipo: not exactly, that paragraph starts with "Each package name may be specified as a filename..." so it implies it should only affect operations where any package name is actually specified on the command line.
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18:25 < Bradipo> "If the given package names are not found in the current working directory, pkg_add will search for them in each directory (local or remote) named by the TRUSTED_PKG_PATH environment variable, then the PKG_PATH environment variable."
18:26 < Bradipo> It then describes next what happens when neither of those variables are defined.
18:26 < Bradipo> Though, I suppose one can argue over the meaning of "filename".
18:27 < Bradipo> But I guess I'm not sure I see where the flaw is yet.
18:27 < kuzdra> Bradipo: correct, but i think you miss the context. that paragraph speaks about *given* package names. and we are considering a case with *no* package arguments given, just to -u'pdate them all
18:29 < Bradipo> So you expect it to search a different location when packages are named vs when they are not named?
18:29 < Bradipo> It says "Each package name may be specified", doesn't say "must".
18:29 < kuzdra> again, you take that out of context of the whole sentence
18:30 < Bradipo> So you expect pkg_add to search differently when using named vs no names?
18:31 < kuzdra> the paragraph speaks what the optional pkg-name arguments are and have they are interpreted. your quoted "may" is "may be a file, may be a url"
18:31 < Bradipo> Or neither.
18:31 < Bradipo> "may be specified" doesn't imply that it must be either a filename in the filesystem or a URL.
18:31 < Bradipo> But, that's irrelevant.
18:32 < Bradipo> What matters is whether pkg_add has a different algorithm for finding packages when using names vs no names and whether or not it's reasonable to expect it to behave differently under those conditions.
18:32 < Bradipo> Nothing in the man page suggests to me that -u behaves any differently with respect to searching for things to install.
18:33 < Bradipo> The paragraph for -u also begins, "Update the given installed pkgname(s),".  Does that mean that one *must* provide pkgnames?
18:33 < kuzdra> pkg_add works as documented for our purpose here, yes
18:33 < Bradipo> Furthermore, it says "This relies on PKG_PATH to figure out the new package names."
18:33 < Bradipo> Which suggests to me that it will use the same mechanism as mentioned previously for finding packages.
18:33 < kuzdra> what are you trying to convey?
18:34 < Bradipo> I'm contesting PaulFertser's claim that "Updates (without specifying any specific package name) shouldn't be using current directory".
18:34 < Bradipo> That it's working as documented.
18:35 < Bradipo> And furthermore, I'm asking why it should behave differently for named packages vs no names?
18:35 < kuzdra> that's an argument for changing behaviour, not an argument that for a mismatch between the current behaviour and man page 
18:36 < Bradipo> Is there a mismatch?
18:36 < Bradipo> What you said above suggests that it's working as documented, not a mismatch.
18:36 < Bradipo> Unless I've misunderstood. :-)
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18:48 < PaulFertser> Bradipo: when an end-user specifies an exact filename or URL it would normally mean the end user wants that specific file installed, so if it's a relative name the current working directory is taken into account. No surprises here. While performing updates differently depending on what directory you're in (and that could be /tmp and that can "suddenly" have files from other users!) is surprising,
18:48 < PaulFertser> hard to think about and potentially insecure.
18:50 < Bradipo> Yeah, I guess we'll just have to see what devs on misc@ think about it.
18:52 < yang3> sibiria, any suggestions which programs to compile on loongson ?
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18:53 < PaulFertser> If pkg_add can take a file from non-root in /tmp happily just because root performed update in there for whatever random reason that would be a real security issue. And OpenBSD should be secure by default, right? Either pkg_add should be checking permissions and ownership of the files it's using or it shouldn't be updating from "." without explicit option.
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18:58 < Bradipo> I hear your argument.  I wonder what the rationale is for the current behavior.  Perhaps git commit logs will reveal a reason.
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18:59 < kuzdra> so do we
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19:08 < jcs> it's not insecure because it would only add packages that have been properly signed
19:09 < jcs> though if pkg_add and pkg_add -u behavior differ, i think that is weird
19:09 < Bradipo> And one has to go out of ones way to use unsigned packages.
19:10 < PaulFertser> Good point but what if there's a vulnerable signed packaged that was already updated to a fixed signed package on the servers but the attacker puts the older (still newer than currently installed) version there?
19:11 < Bradipo> Why do you cd /tmp before installing packages?
19:11 < jcs> i don't know, what if ifs and buts were candy and nuts
19:11 < thrig> /tmp is worse as anyone can put most any file there
19:11 < PaulFertser> Bradipo: it might just happen that you were doing something else and then decided to upgrade 
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19:12 < Bradipo> Well, wouldn't you find it pretty odd that when you try to install something it installs the wrong thing, and furthermore, that nothing else installs?
19:13 < jcs> but imo pkg_add should not include . as a fallback path, if you want to install local packages you should have to specify a path like 'pkg_add ./package.tgz'
19:13 < Bradipo> e.g. wouldn't they have to replicate *all* packages in /tmp so that a wary admin doesn't find it odd that only one package (the targetted package) is the only one that installs?
19:13 < jcs> but pkg_add is a terrible rats nest of kludge and probably won't get changed
19:14 < PaulFertser> There's a reason why "." isn't included in PATH anywhere by default. So my current notion is that pkg_add should not be suddenly picking upgrades from "." for similar reasons.
19:16 < kuzdra> jcs: worse still, "." isn't fallback, but the first item in the default package path, before installurl
19:16 < jcs> i mean fallback if you don't have $PKG_PATH set
19:17 < Bradipo> That to me is an indication that it's intentional.
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19:17 < kuzdra> for sure it wasn't coded and documented by accident (-:
19:17 < jcs> of course it is, it says so in the man page
19:18 < kuzdra> "pkg_add is a terrible rats nest of kludge..."-- i was afraid to hear smth like that )-:
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19:19 < Bradipo> Have you sent something to bugs@ or misc@ yet?
19:19 < jcs> there is also the quirks package which won't allow packages with insecure versions to be added
19:19 < kuzdra> i haven't. got too tired. unless someone else does (please feel free), i'll try to do it tomorrow
19:19 < jcs> so you would need to have a package version newer than your last quirks update that is insecure, and have no network for pkg_add to update quirks
19:22 < PaulFertser> I didn't have a real proof of concept, granted. But the current behaviour is surely confusing, moviuro wasted a day on it.
19:22 < Bradipo> And this happened because moviuro put a package in /root ?
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19:23 < PaulFertser> Yes, somehow the tarball was in /root. Downloaded and forgotten.
19:23 < Bradipo> Which further bolsters my argument that if someone were trying to convince me to install a package from /tmp that they would have to put more than just one file, because I'm likely to notice (in the same way that moviuro noticed) that something is misbehaving.
19:24 < Bradipo> I would type: cd /tmp; pkg_add X; FAIL
19:24 < jcs> i've done similar, i had to manually copy packages to a machine with no net and they lingered in my home directory where running pkg_add from would not be unusual
19:25 < Bradipo> At which point, I start figuring out why it failed.  Discover the presence of a malicious package, and lock the account of the owner who put it there.
19:25 < jcs> whoever emails the lists, i would not mention the security part or you know who will quickly dismiss it, just frame it as a confusing default
19:25 < Bradipo> Well, no, feel free to air your arguments however you see fit.
19:26 < Bradipo> Open discussion is always better.
19:26 < kuzdra> jcs: noted, thanks!
19:26 < jcs> you say that as if any "open discussion" is going to change the mind of someone that would permit it being changed
19:26 < Bradipo> Well, whatever.
19:26 < jcs> openbsd isn't a democracy
19:26 < Bradipo> Nope.
19:27 < Bradipo> It's not even a codeocracy.
19:27 < jcs> it's a theocracy
19:27 < kuzdra> haha (-:
19:27 < kuzdra> jcs: do you think it belongs rather to misc@?
19:28 < PaulFertser> I think actual exploits are often developed based on something odd/confusing, then you start trying, see the first hurdle, workaround it somehow, see the next etc. Probably there's no way to actually exploit it in any realistic scenario, probably there is but it's not obvious who knows.
19:29 < Bradipo> Well, it's not really a bug per se is it?
19:29 < Bradipo> It's working as documented, right?
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19:30 < PaulFertser> Depends on how you read the document. One is not supposed to have perfect English knowledge and a math degree to understand manpages. I'd say it's at least unclear the way it currently is.
19:31 < jcs> if it were me, i would email tech@ with a small diff changing the default fallback to put . after installpath and include a manpage update, but prefix it with a question asking why it is that way and say it is confusing if it matches old packages in the working directory
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19:33 < PaulFertser> Sounds like the best path forward. Seeing an actual diff is more motivating for reviewers.
19:33 < jcs> unfortunately many things come down to "the way this works is weird but it is like that because someone is relying on it working that way to keep openbsd.org machines up to date"
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19:36 < PaulFertser> Then it least there'd be a chance to unambiguously document it.
19:37 < Bradipo> If you want it documented differently, provide a patch.
19:39 < moviuro> yup kuzdra , bingo
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19:40 < kuzdra> jcs: that's a surprise to me. i've seen upgrade guides and changelogs that break certain backward compatibility and provide relevant instructions to migrate. i understand it's not all black and white, just makes me a little sad, is all. i'm relatively new to OpenBSD too, so learning how things are around here
19:41 < kuzdra> moviuro: yay \o/ do you remember how you ended up having the old tarball in /root?
19:41 < Bradipo> Well, don't take our word for it.
19:42 < Bradipo> You might find a sympathetic ear on misc@.
19:42 < Bradipo> But not many here have any voice beyond the power to self-help in this channel.
19:42 < jcs> yeah, but most things about cooking releases, snapshots, packages, etc. are a delicate subject because those processes need to stay automated and no one likes changing them
19:43 < Bradipo> Sure, I understand that.  There may be a rationale for why it needs to look in the current directory.
19:43 < Bradipo> Just like there is sometimes a rationale for having . in PATH.
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19:44 < kuzdra> jcs, PaulFertser: i'm sorry, i miss one point on the proposal. dealing with that ".": does it concern pkg_add as a whole, or just the -u'pdate mode in your mind?
19:45 < jcs> as a whole, though it's much more surprising in the -u behavior because someone intentionally adding a package with a name would probably notice right away that it picked up the wrong thing
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19:47 < kuzdra> i see. right, -u is where all this conversation has spawned from in the first place
19:47 < Bradipo> Precisely what I was saying above.  Either way it's likely to be noticed in my opinion.  Perhaps after the fact, but still noticed.
19:47 < Bradipo> If I'm in /tmp and try "pkg_add -v tcl", what will happen?  Failure, and then I start trying to figure out what went wrong.
19:48 < Bradipo> If I'm in /tmp and try "pkg_add -u" and it fails because some attacker put a file in /tmp, would this go unnoticed?
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19:48 < sibiria> only if the file's signature passes
19:49 < Bradipo> So an old package?
19:49 < sibiria> i suppose that's subject to the version comparison?
19:49 < Bradipo> True.  If the package is already older than what I have installed, it will be ignored.
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19:54 < sibiria> i agree with the earlier notion that when invoked by root, pkg_add should only install from files that are also owned by root
19:56 < jcs> when would non-root ever use pkg_add?
19:56 < sibiria> i'm not sure. but i know pkg_add facilitates it and has a switch for it
19:57 < sibiria> local packages probably, for development
19:57 < sibiria> they don't necessarily have to unpack to /usr
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19:59 < kuzdra> FWIW pkg_add may be used by non-root for a purpose of checking for updates, i.e. 'pkg_add -un'
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20:40 < divansantana> anyone able to help with a raid5 failure?  Full details here https://paste.debian.net/1339235/
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21:07 < moviuro> kuzdra: before the upgrade to 7.6, I grabbed the package to make sure I had it because I *need* dhcpcd to connect to the ISP fiber: https://try.popho.be/securing-home2.html#super-duper-weird-isp
21:09 < yang3> sibiria, any recommended  packages to compile for loongson / mips64el ?
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21:17 < sibiria> yang3: 
21:17 < sibiria> git and maybe openssl
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21:18 < sibiria> openssl, both the tool and the libraries, are sometimes necessary for things that can't use libressl
21:18 < sibiria> mutt (or neomutt), i think i suggested that earlier
21:18 < yang3> yes
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21:18 < yang3> I have tried to compile all which you suggestzed
21:18 < yang3> some worked some didnt
21:19 < sibiria> lua :)
21:20 < yang3> lua was successfull
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21:23 < yang3> ls /usr/ports/packages/mips64el/ftp | wc -l
21:23 < yang3>  64
21:24 < kuzdra> yang3: what are you building these packages for?
21:24 < sibiria> did irssi compile OK?
21:25 < yang3> no
21:26 < yang3> I think it failed because of python, those dependant on python don't work
21:26 < sibiria> that can be configured. might be an option
21:26 < sibiria> though you'd have to patch the port script
21:26 < yang3> kuzdra loongson / mips64el arch
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21:28 < yang3> kuzdra, mostly for myself, but IcePic and sibiria mentioned that I could aswell share them with other users on the unofficial port, because there are none made for loongson
21:29 < kuzdra> yang3: sorry, i didn't phrase that well. i mean to ask why do build arbitrary packages, what is your intention? like, to help testing ports on loongson, or to share binary packages with others, etc
21:29 < kuzdra> okay, i see now. so you are looking for ones that might be in higher demand. popular ports
21:30 < yang3> sibiria https://paste.debian.net/1339240/
21:30 < yang3> kuzdra yes
21:30 < yang3> I am compiling on the physical hardware, that is why it takes hours to build a package
21:31 < sibiria> oh irssi needs meson and/or ninja
21:31 < sibiria> (which in turn needs python)
21:31 < sibiria> now i recall the woe...
21:31 < yang3> sibiria i tried several which require python dependancy and all failed
21:31 < yang3> i tried to compile also python independantly
21:31 < yang3> but also failed
21:34 < kuzdra> i thought if you don't have a specific list of requested ports and you were looking for inspiration, you could look up package statistics as some Linux distros collect them. https://pkgstats.archlinux.de/packages is one such example
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21:36 < yang3> ok, that is a good hint
21:36 < kuzdra> catgirl is a decent IRC client alternative and written in C, if irsii and weechat remain impossible to build
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21:38 < kuzdra> what's on your list already? (all packages in general)
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21:40 < yang3> https://paste.debian.net/1339244/
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21:44 < yang3> Is it posible to run two builds simultaneously in different /usr/ports directory, in annother shell 
21:46 < yang3> from the same user account, but in different shell
21:48 < thrig> what happened when you tried
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21:49 < yang3> i didnt try yet
21:50 < yang3> but i thought it would speed up the process a bit
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21:51 < mischief> on a single core machine, how could it? :-)
21:52 < thrig> also more disk I/O. but one can (try to) benchmark such things...
21:52 < yang3> I ment, i can run two shells, and when it keeps asking me for "doas" passwords, I could enter it, while the other process would still be ongoing, when the first one waits for password :)
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21:53 < mischief> why don't you just turn off password prompting for doas, dude
21:53 < yang3> i need to enter doas password each time it creates new package
21:53 < yang3> how ?
21:53 < mischief> read the fine manual: man doas.conf
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21:55 < kuzdra> also: /etc/examples/doas.conf
21:55 < yang3> https://paste.debian.net/1339248/
21:57 < kuzdra> i don't know if the ports tree is properly locked (of whether it has to be locked) to run multiple builds. however, the porter's handbook says it's possible and supported with dpb
21:57 < kuzdra> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/ports.html#dpb
21:57 < kuzdra> "When you need to build more than one or two ports at a time, you can use the /usr/ports/infrastructure/bin/dpb tool."
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21:57 < yang3> aha, dpb seems to be more "complicated" for a beginner, so I stick with ports
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21:59 < kuzdra> there is also MAKE_JOBS (see bsd.port.mk(5)), but since you got got a single core... idk. it may not work correctly too (the man page says why)
22:00 < yang3> right
22:00 < Lucas_> also that's not for parallel building of more than one port
22:01 < Lucas_> yang3: do you know that a package-path is?
22:01 < yang3> what a package-path is ?
22:01 < Lucas_> if so, you can use the "root" Makefile, define the pkg paths you want to build and use make SUBDIRLIST=file_with_pkg_paths
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22:06 < Lucas_> yang3: you dealt enough with the ports tree already to look it up on your own :)
22:06 < kuzdra> mutt fails due to python dependecy. i wondered if thats a runtime dep or a build dep, so i checked /usr/ports/mail/mutt/Makefile (i'm learning ports as i go, please bear with me). python is a MODULE. MODPY_BUILDDEP and MODPY_RUNDEP are off. (see also: python-module(5).) is python needed only for this sidecar contrib script then?--
22:06 < kuzdra> MODPY_ADJ_FILES= contrib/markdown2html
22:08 < sibiria> Dependency Chains of Hell
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22:09 < kuzdra> sidebar question: can ports be configured to build differently per different platform?
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22:10 < ssm_> .if ${MACHINE_ARCH} == something maybe?
22:10 < yang3> Lucas_ Yes, I'll read the manpage :)
22:13 < kuzdra> ssm_: okay, yeah. i found examples like that, thanks
22:16 < kuzdra> yang3: i see you built rsync. there is openrsync in base. it doesn't suffice for your needs?
22:16 < ssm_> kuzdra: bsd.port.mk is the manpage you're looking for. Also check the output of make -p, it's full of a lot of really useful stuff you may not know about
22:18 < yang3> kuzdra I am used to rsync from linux....I looked at the manpage for openrsync, but it's quite different
22:18 < kuzdra> sweet, thanks ssm_ (-:
22:19 < kuzdra> yang3: fair enough
22:19 < ssm_> I still think it's silly openrsync defaults to rsync on remote hosts
22:20 < ssm_> alias openrsync='/usr/bin/openrsync --rsync-path=/usr/bin/openrsync'
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22:21 < ssm_> at the very least I think it should try openrsync and then failover to rsync or something
22:21 < yang3> unofficial loongson/mips64el packages are being shared on this link https://ftp.eu.openbsd.org/pub/Unofficial/OpenBSD/7.6/packages/mips64el/
22:22 < yang3> they get mirrored and added occasionally, I don't know how long i will keep the builds going
22:22 < yang3> hopefully the hardware won't break heh
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22:24 < sibiria> would be a shame on such a rare machine
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22:24 < sibiria> does it have a normal SATA (or IDE) slot for the main storage?
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22:26 < yang3> sibiria https://paste.debian.net/hidden/2fae97b4/
22:27 < yang3> If the drive fails, that's not a big problem, because i have spare ones, which can replace it
22:27 < sibiria> so a normal 2.5" SATA drive. putting an SSD in there would give it a decent boost
22:28 < yang3> yes, I think I only have the 2.5" SATA ones
22:28 < yang3> axctually...I might have one SSD 2.5" aswell, new
22:29 < yang3> but maybe it woulkd require an adapter, i dont know
22:30 < sibiria> they use the same standard SATA connectors as HDDs
22:30 < sibiria> drop-in replacements
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22:32 < yang3> ok
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 11 00:00:42 2024