--- Log opened Sun Dec 22 00:00:58 2024
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00:37 < yang3> building Emacs, it's over 1 week long build, currently compiling at it went from 15% to 26% in 5 hours
00:38 < fnix> are you on a PDP?
00:38 < macarona> lmaooo
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00:40 < xse> phew, pray to the outlet gods the electricity keeps flowing
00:40 < sibiria> how long did nano take?
00:43 < mischief> fnix: worse, a lemote yeeloong
00:43 < fnix> oooooooooh
00:43 < fnix> cute little mips machines
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00:46 < macarona> just get an old thinkpad bro ;-; yang3 
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00:48 < yang3> bleh thinkpad
00:48 < yang3> got those too
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00:49 < yang3> nano compiled fast
00:49 < yang3> less than 2 hours
00:49 < yang3> or maybe under an hour
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00:49 < fnix> Thinkpads are not open source hardware though
00:50 < yang3> Lemote has an Open bios
00:50 < yang3> PMON
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00:50 < setient> no but there is some cool stuff with that risc v framework mobo you can get
00:50 < fnix> Are you compiling these things to test your hardware? Surely it would be better to cross compile
00:50 < yang3> I dunno if any later computers were also having PMON, or if it's a BIOS which is used on later Loongson CPUs
00:51 < yang3> fnix, well mostly to test yes
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00:51 < yang3> i compile the programs which I plan on using
00:51 < yang3> i dunno if there is a qemu for Yeeloong
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00:52 < fnix> I once installed gentoo on a T60 so I understand. That was in 2014 though
00:52 < yang3> T60 was fast in 2014
00:53 < setient> yang3: you can compile mips64el on x86 if you wanted
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00:53 < setient> prolly faster than on mips64el
00:53 < yang3> Yeeloong is 2010
00:53 < fnix> Compared to a lemote computer that's without a doubt. Web browsers were starting to get big though.
00:53 < yang3> setient, yeah I might consider that
00:53 < yang3> or i could build it on a VPS
00:53 < yang3> AMD64 port
00:53 < setient> yup
00:54 < setient> i build on a sparc64 from like, 2005?
00:54 < setient> its a sunfire v100
00:54 < yang3> I think I'd need to read more about ccross-compiling
00:54 < fnix> I wish we had these obscure computers laying around junkyards in Quebec, I'd be in heaven
00:54 < setient> its VERY useful on older hardware
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00:55 < fnix> non-x86 computers are very rare here.
00:55 < yang3> oh
00:55 < setient> fnix: huh
00:55 < setient> arm is prolly popular?
00:55 < setient> i bet you can find sparc too
00:55 < fnix> in phones, yes
00:55 < setient> fnix: apple laptops too!
00:55 < setient> there are also windows based arm laptops again
00:55 < fnix> those don't count
00:55 < setient> why not?
00:55 < fnix> because it's apple
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00:56 < setient> and sun was like apple, but worse
00:56 < setient> like for source, being nice to open source devs
00:56 < setient> or DEC
00:56 < setient> or HP (for the parisc stuff)
00:56 < yang3> fnix sometimes very old computer hardware capacitors can explode...if it hasn't been powered up in a decade...you need soldering skills then
00:57 < fnix> I did some computer engineering before moving to computer science so I know how to solder
00:57 < fnix> You just have to make as many connections touch as possible and it goes faster
00:57 < setient> fnix: 
00:57 < setient> https://www.ebay.com/itm/325659656268?_skw=sunfire+v100&itmmeta=01JFNXW3ZF3SMSFQPNEKPXSB27&hash=item4bd2d4004c:g:0AwAAOSwhQBkZXjI&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlPwJQfUgilTMrRTV2hGUTKtHzDJvw9rG1iB%2BtDpFKh1pn5DUXTMQK4GoO9MmCpEQWKWYXYu2USYUSqmURG%2BBiEyYT0t8ytL5i9ZYNb8roi26ODdHF7ksquZg%2F8SucZLal4JNr0qSka6UoMn1DaEVcRftTNe3whc%2Bde0qsdjqXATFd9bg20Ptl4fb3mhaV4X1i9MUYPg1ty8maLu40mhwb8dDLOMEiqFLd
00:57 < setient> Zlrvzk8drtXoO4ylor%2B3SlvEY5SoL%2BiY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_K_8L39ZA is a good deal
00:57 < setient> bah
00:57 < setient> its a sunfire v100 with 2 gb of ram
00:57 < setient> its solidly ok!
00:57 < setient> that url blows
00:58 < fnix> 200$ US with shipping that's roughly 624$ CAD and still going up
00:58 < setient> f
00:58 < yang3> setient which CPU does sunfire 100 have? There was an auctiojn the other day here for SunFire model but it had a x86 CPU
00:59 < fnix> It's not that bad but I'll definitely find a SPARC machine when I'll have some money to spare
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01:00 < fnix> Or an old PowerPC mac I get high on that
01:00 < fnix> How's the OpenBSD ppc port?
01:01 < setient> yang3: an ultrasparc IIe 550 mhz
01:01 < setient> this one 
01:01 < setient> sunfire v100
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01:01 < macarona> > 9 <fnix> Thinkpads are not open source hardware though
01:01 < macarona> oh didn't know that thx
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01:04 < fnix>  you're welcome
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01:05 < setient> fnix: i am shocked you can't get old hardware up there
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01:06 < setient> i should just mail you these two sun ipc's i got.
01:07 < fnix> Quebec wasn't really into computers for a long time. In the 90's they made deals with Microsoft to increase computer literacy so Microsoft systems were widely used in the industry
01:07 < fnix> and stilla re
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01:09 < fnix> there's also the language barrier, Microsoft always translated their software, many other systems didn't
01:09 < setient> yeah
01:10 < fnix> I remember that my brother did an internship in Alberta and used a Sun computer and it was a big deal for everyone, nobody sees that here although it's common in the west
01:11 < fnix> Worst part is he's an industrial engineer, it wasn't even a tech-related internship
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01:13 < setient> oof
01:13 < setient> i would consider getting stuff now though, because its going away. like away away.
01:13 < yang3> I have a few Sparcstations 5, 10, 20, IPX....I never get the time to play with tat
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01:14 < yang3> pizza boxes
01:14 < setient> those are good
01:14 < setient> well fun
01:14 < setient> i like the ipx a lot. favorite unix workstation
01:15 < yang3> :) a friend who runs an electrnics recycling company says, that it's almost impossible to find computer hardware from the 1990s and earlier on the junk
01:16 < yang3> mostly it's x86 these days
01:16 < fnix> I'll try to find something soon then, I wouldn't want to miss out
01:16 < yang3> Pentiums
01:16 < yang3> fnix your best bet is EBAY
01:17 < fnix> Yes I figured, there's been this x86 dark age that's ending with ARM and RISC-V
01:17 < macarona> i'm unable to find ANY hardware in the junk ;-; are all these stories about digging up thinkpads and cpus real?
01:17 < fnix> the 2010s
01:17 < setient> there is still power!
01:17 < setient> it aint going anywhere anytime soon
01:17 < fnix> Where is it being used?
01:17 < setient> ibm sells a current gen ibm rackmount with 16tb of ram and stuff
01:18 < setient> some supercomputing
01:18 < macarona> oh power. like those raptor talos II compoters?
01:18 < macarona> i think it's not open tho right?
01:18 < fnix> I probably couldn't get my hands on that unless I win the lottery
01:18 < setient> https://top500.org/system/179398/
01:19 < setient> no
01:19 < setient> like, the only open one is risc v
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01:19 < fnix> very nice
01:19 < macarona> fairs
01:19 < setient> x86 isn't, nor is arm, nor is alpha, sparc, anything
01:19 < mischief> really hoping milk-v doesn't cuck me and i get my megrez soon
01:19 < rnelson> 7.5 mW/hr
01:20 < fnix> yang3's little mips notebook that compiles emacs in 5 days is open :^)
01:20 < macarona> the price for freedom
01:20 < setient> fnix: no it isn't
01:20 < setient> not as open as risc v
01:20 < setient> the ISA isn't open
01:20 < fnix> Stallman misled me then
01:20 < fnix> wouldn't be the first time
01:20 < macarona> are there any risc-v laptops out there?
01:21 < setient> it was the most open at the time
01:21 < setient> macarona: yes https://frame.work/blog/introducing-a-new-risc-v-mainboard-from-deepcomputing
01:21 < macarona> fnix: lol stallman uses an x200 nowdays. smh gave up on the dream i c. is librebooted tho so that's good
01:21 < macarona> setient: niiice. thx
01:21 < setient> https://deepcomputing.io/product/dc-roma-risc-v-laptop-ii/
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01:22 < macarona> i wanna libreboot my t60 but scared i'd brick it so i'm waiting to get a backup first
01:22 < macarona> oh i'll check this link too thx
01:22 < setient> i mean a librem laptop is about as open as what yang3 has
01:22 < fnix> hehehe that t60 I said I installed gentoo on earlier? I bricked it with libreboot a few days later
01:22 < setient> macarona: there are a few others too
01:22 < fnix> good times
01:23 < macarona> setient: more!
01:23 < setient> https://liliputing.com/risc-v-laptops-299-muse-book-and-399-dc-roma-ii-with-spacemit-processors-are-now-available/
01:23 < setient> yeah just google around
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01:23 < yang3> I have a laptop called Olimex Talos I
01:23 < yang3> I have a laptop called Olimex Teres I
01:23 < macarona> fnix: omg ;-; i was THIS close to just librebooting cause i couldn't wait. rip. now you gotta get an spi programmer and shit
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01:23 < yang3> and supposedly it's OSHW
01:24 < mischief> there's the LicheePi Console 4A, which is probably of similar size to the yeeloong
01:24 < xse> around here it's less common to find stuff in junkyards, asking around in enterprises/schools/libraries and so on is very much worth it tho They often have to pay to get rid of computer when upgrading their parks and even if there's drill holes in the hard drives they're more than happy to give some machines away
01:24 < macarona> setient: oh oki. i'm just bad with all this ISA and arch stuff so idk which cpus are actually truly open. i'll look up risc-v's tho. thxxx
01:25 < mischief> actually it's smaller lol
01:25 < macarona> xse: oh i'll give that a shot. thx
01:25 < setient> no problem!
01:25 < setient> i used to collect all sorts of old unix workstations
01:26 < setient> i had an sgi, rs/6000, m68k mac's, mac clones, sparc stations, sparc clones, an alpha or two
01:26 < macarona> daym
01:27 < setient> yeah
01:27 < setient> ran openbsd, netbsd, freebsd and linux on most of them. some of the propriatory os's too.
01:29 < macarona> sentient: did you run one of those uhh proprietary unixes? or a cpm/dos thingie?
01:29 < yang3> I also have Indy and Indigo2
01:30 < yang3> my parents are just "throw this all away, and make some space"
01:30 < macarona> lol they don't understand
01:30 < yang3> yea
01:30 < setient> i had an indigo 2! and an indy!
01:30 < setient> yeah
01:30 < setient> i ended up tossing it all cuz my parents were dumb and i am across the country
01:30 < setient> it happens
01:31 < setient> i ran a server on a quadra 840av with netbsd for a while!
01:31 < yang3> Back then i had SUN 450 E, it was a mini-fridge sized
01:31 < yang3> Debian wasn't working well, and I didn't deal with BSD's back then, so I sold it to a local guy
01:32 < yang3> he was happy to buy it, and i was happy to get rid of it, it was big, the heaviest thing I carried on my hands ever
01:32 < yang3> that SUN 450 E had a PSU which drained 800-1000 WATTs
01:33 < setient> yeah
01:34 < yang3> I remember that I won the E450 on EBAY for 1 EUR
01:35 < yang3> and it was transported with a big truck down to another country
01:35 < yang3> and he added a bulky Monitor to it, so the price was double
01:35 < yang3> You know those 20" CRT monitors
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01:38 < setient> i do!
01:38 < setient> i had a 21 inch sun srt
01:38 < setient> got trashed
01:38 < setient> a 21 inch sgi
01:38 < setient> or was it 20, whatever
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01:40 < yang3> mischief, lichie PI console 4a looks interesting, similar to those GPD laptops, but those are more high-end ones
01:41 < yang3> Do you know any other vintage computer forums, beside EBAY, where it's possible to buy and sell computers / hardware? 
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01:42 < setient> i have a gpd win 4. i dislike it but mostly because i didn't put it in a case and i need to replace the battery. oops.
01:42 < setient> you can go to the vintage computer festivals and pick stuff up
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01:42 < yang3> those are far away from me
01:42 < yang3> i went once
01:42 < setient> :(
01:42 < yang3> 20 years ago
01:43 < yang3> I wanted to go a few years ago again, but then it was Covid-Era
01:43 < yang3> Maybe next year
01:44 < setient> i went to my first one recently at the computer history museum
01:44 < setient> it was cool.
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01:44 < setient> i live near it
01:44 < yang3> nice
01:44 < yang3> you in Europe?
01:45 < setient> there is also the MIT flea in boston still
01:45 < setient> i am in the san francisco bay area
01:46 < yang3> ok, yeah vintage computing is more popular in the US
01:47 < yang3> and you got more vintage museums
01:47 < setient> yeah
01:47 < macarona> not fair! us got all the computer innovaton and stuff. i wanna visit sometime
01:48 < macarona> s/us/US/ for clarity
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02:15 < yang3> Does someone have this Lichee PI console 4a ?
02:15 < yang3> it looks nice, but more of a toy-like computer, it's not that cheap 
02:16 < yang3> GPD's are probably better produced
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02:16 < yang3> same price
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03:03 < SNAX_74> Does anyone know how to resolve this error message: - > Can't install gcc-libs-8.4.0p25 because of conflicts (gcc-libs-11.2.0p14)
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03:09 < mischief> remove the newer gcc if you want the old one
03:09 < mischief> (or rather, the libs)
03:09 < krell> exit
03:09 < krell> oops
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10:46 < sozuba> Hi, is does wayland work well with openbsd? I am coming from linux, I have tried openbsd once for a few hours, a few years ago and wayland was still not in openbsd. I see https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wayland-1.23-Released and https://openbsd.app/path/wayland/wayland and want to know how things are. Please
10:46 < sozuba> especially kde plasama 6.2 with wayaland
10:46 < sozuba> wayland*
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11:22 < cgnarne> sozuba: wayland is ports. i only tried sway. it works well enough but atm i don't see any reason to switch from X for me.
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11:24 < sozuba> cgnarne understood. I have already moved from x and tried various WMs for wayland and now settled with kde plasma wayland. Just wanted to know if i switch back to openbsd, i would have aworking wm/dte to set things up. Thank you
11:26 -!- chrisz [f1se5f4xc0@62.144.37.69] has joined #openbsd
11:26 < sozuba> okay, just found this https://github.com/openbsd/ports/blob/master/meta/kde/pkg/README-plasma#L68 - looks like its there but needs some work.
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14:50 < sozuba> Hi, trying to install openbsd on a wifi only laptop. got the firmware for wifi on a usb, but when i do fw_update, it says, not found. What can i do now?
14:51 < sozuba> i downloaded and booted https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.6/amd64/install76.iso
14:52 < sibiria> if you have the full install image (or disc) you don't need network to install
14:52 -!- Xenguy_ is now known as Xenguy
14:52 < sibiria> but if you want to install firmware at the same time anyway, you can point fw_update to your USB drive with -p <some path>
14:52 < sozuba> it says fw_update is not found
14:53 < sozuba> i search for the tool, but couldn;t find it on the iso, while booted
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14:58 < sozuba> anyway thank you sibiria
14:58 < sibiria> again, you won't need it to install if you use the full image/disc. you can install the firmware afterwards when you've booted up
15:02 < sozuba> unnderstood
15:02 < sozuba> thank you again
15:02 < sozuba> rebooting
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18:15 < whiteman809> can i hot swap disks in openbsd?
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19:05 < mischief> kn: nice port for chicago95. unfortunate that openbsd doesn't have plymouth, since i think that was my favorite part of the theme. it even skinned the luks password prompt box on linux :)
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19:30 < byteskeptical> whiteman809: no
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19:43 < kn> i'll always remember plymouth as the thing that stopped me from seeing whatever error blocked the boot process from progressing further
19:44 < seninha> kn: you could have pressed ESC
19:44 < kn> a bit like selinux, where troubleshooting usually starts with "disable foo, than try again ..."
19:44 < seninha> (or was it F1?)
19:44 < kn> i don't remember what it was over a decade ago
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19:45 < seninha> Unless plymouth itself froze and could not switch to the system's messages view
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20:15 < shtrophic> ¿OpenBSD meetup at 38c3?
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21:08 < kuzdra> something must have been changed in the recent week worth of changes in -current. 7.6-stable and a week old snapshot were considerably and noticably slower for me. "rcctl ls on" would take between 1-2 seconds per one service. now the entire run takes 3 seconds
21:10 < thrig> kdump has an -R flag
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 23 00:00:59 2024