--- Log opened Sat Dec 28 00:00:06 2024
00:02 -!- lucas- [~Lucas@moon.lgv5.net] has quit [Quit: bye]
00:04 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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00:19 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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00:29 -!- jupiter126 [~jupiter12@87.240.216.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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00:59 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:05 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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01:15 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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01:30 -!- chaky [~chaky@93-138-254-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #openbsd
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01:41 -!- ficonni [~ficonni@213.196.101.110] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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01:51 -!- SirJitsu [~SirJitsu@162-231-111-175.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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01:55 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
01:56 -!- accelerat0r [~user@user/accelerat0r] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:59 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:04 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
02:05 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@rsa59-h05-176-133-210-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr]
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02:08 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
02:09 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:13 -!- dustinm` [~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:13 -!- ficonni [~ficonni@213.196.101.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:14 -!- jambove [~jambove@BC06386F.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
02:15 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
02:16 -!- jambove [~jambove@BC06386F.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openbsd
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02:19 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:20 -!- jitter [~jitter@149.233.252.56.dynamic-pppoe.dt.ipv4.wtnet.de] has joined #openbsd
02:20 -!- jitter [~jitter@149.233.252.56.dynamic-pppoe.dt.ipv4.wtnet.de] has quit [Changing host]
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02:20 -!- chilledfrogs [~chilledfr@176-133-210-176.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #openbsd
02:25 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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02:27 -!- vdamewood [~vdamewood@fedora/vdamewood] has quit [Quit: Life beckons]
02:28 -!- emmanuelux [~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux] has quit [Quit: au revoir]
02:29 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:33 -!- SexWarrior [~DankFrank@2a01:4b00:940e:f600:c5aa:bb82:a21d:4045] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:33 -!- UDENIX [~UDENIX@user/udenix] has joined #openbsd
02:34 -!- dustinm` [~dustinm@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de] has joined #openbsd
02:34 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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02:38 -!- Aedil [~adrian@ip923469d0.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openbsd
02:39 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:45 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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02:49 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:55 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
02:59 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:00 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
03:02 -!- l_k [~student@85.172.76.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
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03:09 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:09 -!- housemate [~housemate@pa49-183-76-50.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openbsd
03:14 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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03:29 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:31 -!- kikadf [~quassel@20014C4E2BC7FF00DEA632FFFE5AD709.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
03:32 -!- kikadf [~quassel@20014C4E2BCF4F00DEA632FFFE5AD709.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openbsd
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03:39 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:41 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@218.89.253.230] has quit [Quit: tozhu]
03:45 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
03:49 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:49 -!- puffybuf [~puffy@user/puffybuf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:52 -!- housemate [~housemate@pa49-199-79-186.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openbsd
03:53 -!- zip100 [~zip100@185.209.196.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
03:55 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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03:56 -!- housemate [~housemate@pa49-199-79-186.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:00 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
04:02 -!- sdds [~sdds@user/sdds] has joined #openbsd
04:06 -!- saulosilva [~saulosilv@181.216.220.21] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
04:07 -!- Mete- [~quassel@2804:24c:f7a3:1881:c6bd:5115:a902:170e] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
04:09 -!- Mete- [~quassel@2804:24c:f7a3:1881:c6bd:5115:a902:170e] has joined #openbsd
04:09 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:14 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
04:19 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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04:21 -!- mxz__ is now known as mxz
04:22 -!- mbuhl [~mbuhl@user/mbuhl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:24 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
04:30 -!- zwr [~zwr@200-97-246-192.user3p.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:35 -!- zwr [~zwr@200-97-246-192.user3p.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #openbsd
04:43 -!- adig [~default@109.166.138.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:49 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:54 -!- mbuhl [~mbuhl@user/mbuhl] has joined #openbsd
04:55 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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05:19 -!- lanky_ginger [~lanky_gin@38.23.149.160] has joined #openbsd
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05:26 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@218.89.253.230] has quit [Quit: tozhu]
05:29 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:30 -!- jonf [~jjf@c-174-166-163-232.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:30 -!- jonf [~jjf@c-174-166-163-232.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd
05:34 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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05:39 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:39 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:39 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd
05:41 -!- pokeysquirrel [~pokeysqui@user/pokeysquirrel] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
05:45 -!- martian67 [~martian67@user/meow/martian67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:45 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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05:49 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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06:12 -!- cantelope [uid598105@id-598105.hampstead.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
06:17 -!- agentcas- [~agentcase@143-42-229-181.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #openbsd
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06:18 -!- bket [~bket@user/bket] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:19 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:19 -!- shiranaihito_ [~shiranaih@ppp-115-87-227-115.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #openbsd
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06:23 -!- pokeysquirrel [~pokeysqui@2600:6c98:a040:89:685c:bcff:d2a3:c117] has quit [Changing host]
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06:44 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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06:49 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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06:55 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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06:59 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:01 -!- housemate [~housemate@pa49-199-79-186.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openbsd
07:01 -!- mijndert2 [~mijndert@86-86-243-190.fixed.kpn.net] has joined #openbsd
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07:09 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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07:19 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:24 -!- housemate [~housemate@pa49-199-79-186.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
07:25 -!- accordvenom [~markie@99-106-182-62.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openbsd
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08:00 -!- mijndert2 [~mijndert@86-86-243-190.fixed.kpn.net] has quit [Quit: kbye]
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11:53 < luscusrex> Apart from supporting more RAM, is there any performance advantage to running amd64 release vs. i386 on an OpenBSD router with 2x GBe links?
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11:59 < sibiria> i686 CPUs basically stopped developing in the second half of the 2000s, so performance is stuck at that point, and for openbsd and networking that's an issue
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11:59 < sibiria> and you don't gain anything from running i686 on an x86-64 capable CPU
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12:02 < luscusrex> ok thanks
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13:53 < pardis> that's not entirely true
13:54 < pardis> there is a small benefit in memory usage due to integers and pointers being smaller, which may be beneficial on extremely low-memory systems
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14:05 < sibiria> it's a valid concern when running e.g. openwrt on a device with 16-32 mb of ram. it's beyond a fringe scenario on openbsd which really wants about 8x that amount as the bare minimum
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15:50 < luscusrex> wasn't sure if I could upgrade from i386 7.6 release to amd64 snapshot, but it worked!
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16:33 < macarona> hi openbsders. i'm writing a slowcgi perl cgi script and would like to have uniform error pages. it serves both static files via a specific route and the rest via fastcgi. how can i make my script return the same 404 page that httpd returns? thx
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16:34 < macarona> s/it serves/my httpd config serves/
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16:37 < pardis> it's not a lot of HTML, just save the content somewhere under /var/www and return that
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16:38 < macarona> pardis: fair. i guess i'll do the opposite and make httpd share a custom page with the cgi script. thxx
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16:48 < byteskeptical> macarona: just redirect to a /error page in your scrip that httpd serves the 404 page from
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16:49 < pardis> please don't redirect to an error page when there is an error
16:50 < pardis> it breaks refreshing later to clear the error condition
16:50 < pardis> and it also means you can't see from the address bar which page you navigated to in order to get the error
16:50 < macarona> oh alright. i'll keep that in mind
16:50 < byteskeptical> pardis: must not go on undeadly much
16:51 < pardis> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20251219080430 doesn't redirect, it just serves a 404
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16:52 < macarona> also while we're talking about httpd. i read the man pages but am still not sure if slowcgi solves the problem with firing up a new process for each request. i tried to check on top but saw nothing popping up on requests
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16:53 < pkal> Anyone here run a mailing list using opensmtpd?
16:53 < pardis> why would you write a new application using slowcgi?
16:54 < macarona> pardis: mostly learning and it's a small website that doesn't take input so no need for anything big yet. if it proves problematic i'll move to plack/sgi with fastcgi
16:54 < sdk_> macarona: slowcgi is a fastcgi implementation, the point of fastcgi is to serve many requests with the same request. Forking a process per request is called "cgi"
16:54 < pardis> slowcgi is a fastcgi-to-cgi gateway, more precisely
16:54 < sdk_> s/the same request/the same process/
16:55 < pardis> what problem with spawning a new process per request do you expect it to solve when you are deliberately using a protocol that involves spawning a process per request?
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16:55 < macarona> sdk_: oh alright. thx
16:55 < sdk_> macarona: read the frist paragraph in the manpage under DESCRIPTION
16:56 < byteskeptical> pardis: but the url didn't change did it, maybe redirect is was the wrong word but I mean just have httpd serve you the html for your page your don't have to change your app url
16:56 < sdk_> macarona: another hint is that slowcgi is a service that's started via rcctl. 
16:57 < macarona> sdk_: yeah. this part confused me as i thought plain cgi needs to always fork. if i understood you right this means slowcgi executes cgi scripts without forking so it got the same scalability as any other fastcgi implementation?
16:57 < sdk_> macarona: regular cgi would not have that and the webserver would fire up the executable on every request. see apache mod_cgi for example
16:58 < pardis> you can't execute a script without forking and still have your old program running
16:58 < pardis> that's not possible in Unix
16:58 < pardis> a program that executes multiple scripts is a program that forks
16:58 < macarona> pardis: hmm i'm confused at your question back there. i guess i need to read up more
16:59 < pardis> you are choosing to use CGI, and you are saying you want the benefits of FastCGI without having to write a FastCGI application (assuming I understand what you mean by "solves the problem with firing up a new process" correctly)
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16:59 < sdk_> oh. actually.
16:59 < macarona> sdk_: alright. i'll check apache's mod_cgi too to get a better understanding
16:59 < pardis> you can't use CGI without using CGI
17:00 < sdk_> yeah, I'm right and wrong at the same time.
17:00 < sdk_> :D
17:00 < macarona> pardis: got ya now. in this case i guess i'll benchmark it and if it's not good enough i'll move it to fastcgi
17:00 < byteskeptical> macarona: https://kristaps.bsd.lv/absdcon2016/
17:01 < sdk_> slowcgi itself is a fastcgi process that keeps running, but slowcgi has to fork the target process for each request.
17:01 < thrig> that being the slow part
17:01 < sdk_> I forgot for as second that slowcgi is not processing the request itself
17:01 < macarona> byteskeptical: thx a lot i had this link before but lost it xD i'll give it another look
17:02 < macarona> sdk_: no worries and thx for the clarifiacation
17:02 < macarona> thrig: lol yeah
17:02 < byteskeptical> kristaps github also has some good cgi/openbsd related resources
17:02 < macarona> niice. cgi content be lacking online
17:03 < byteskeptical> beats v8 for sure
17:03 < quinq> pkal, yeah, with mlmmj
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17:04 < macarona> byteskeptical: the chrome engine?
17:04 < quinq> (and dovecot)
17:04 < quinq> Though I'm sure you can do without :)
17:05 < sdk_> macarona: sometimes the source is easier to understand than the manpage... https://github.com/openbsd/src/blob/master/usr.sbin/slowcgi/slowcgi.c#L866
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17:05 < byteskeptical> macarona: I just meant another {javascript framework} 
17:05 < sibiria> it's just a fastcgi-to-olde-cgi compatibility bridge, since a lot of stuff today no longer does regular cgi
17:05 < macarona> byteskeptical: ooh
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17:06 < sibiria> as in, nginx doesn't do regular cgi anymore. apache doesn't do it unless you throw mod_cgi at it. lighttpd doesn't do it etc.
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17:07 < thrig> CGI doesn't scale, if your site is slashdotted or something
17:07 < sibiria> scales well with cpu cores and ram :P
17:07 < macarona> sdk_: ooh great. clear as day :3 i don't go to the source much cause it don't have much comments and i'm a c noob xD i should read more
17:07 < macarona> thrig: like if it got put on a link aggregator?
17:07 < sibiria> fastcgi's greatest benefit is indeed not the residency, but that you can queue up requests
17:08 < pardis> macarona: incidentally, you don't need something as big as Plack to do FastCGI
17:08 < macarona> oh really?
17:08 < pardis> AnyEvent::FCGI is simple to use and works well
17:08 < macarona> niice. thx pardis i'll take a look
17:08 < sibiria> i prefer FCGI::ProcManager. very barebones yet capable
17:09 < sibiria> automates the boring scale/redundancy/recovery parts as well
17:09 < macarona> sibiria: i'll check on it too. so many pkgs... tbh i also secretly wanted it to be zero-dep but one can dream. i'll nfs mount /usr/local/libdata/perl5 then
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17:11 < sdk_> not everything on the web needs to be fast. 
17:11 < sibiria> i may be forgetting things right now, but i believe the only external dep of FCGI::ProcManager is CGI::Fast
17:12 < sibiria> which in turn of course needs CGI and FCGI. but all in all it's a very light and uncomplicated setup
17:12 < macarona> oh sorry for bad wording. i meant so many implementations to choose from
17:12 < macarona> alright
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17:14 < sibiria> and its simplicity is underappreciated. it queues requests for you, it automatically forks and maintains workers for you, all the heavy lifting
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17:15 < sibiria> incredibly robust in my experience of running it in production environment at work for the past 6-7 years
17:18 < macarona> oh wow
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17:24 < macarona> sibiria: i'm interested in your stack as i always hear of complex frameworks when people talk about production in work
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17:30 < sibiria> macarona: that particular environment is just debian + nginx, and each "API" defined in nginx' config runs off of FCGI::ProcManager. "spawn-fcgi" is used to start each "API" and create the respective UNIX sockets that nginx directs requests into
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17:31 < macarona> sibiria: ooh cool stuff. no js on frontend?
17:31 < sibiria> there probably is but i'm a backend developer, that stuff resides with a different department
17:32 < macarona> sounds like bliss
17:32 < macarona> i gotta find a position like that xD
17:33 < sibiria> i'm glad i don't have to go near that part of the platform. i believe it's dotnet, c# and IIS or so
17:33 < thrig> windows: the cooties zone
17:33 < sibiria> at least that's my impression because they constantly recompile a bunch of things every time there's a minor change, and need to restart equal amounts of stuff just to deploy
17:35 < macarona> sibiria: oh interesting. that sounds very daunting...
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17:38 < sibiria> doesn't give the best impression when the frontend guys regularly say they need to completely "fail-over" services to secondary server just to deploy some changes
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17:41 < thrig> maybe windows is just an IT jobs program to keep people employed digging ditches and filling them back in again
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17:41 < betabug> hiding some bodies in them
17:42 < pardis> it's too bad that the functionality to write files while a web server is online hasn't been invented yet
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17:43 < sibiria> incidentally, instant and seamless deployments by just atomically replacing a file is one of old CGI's strengths
17:44 < sibiria> the simplicity merits a bit of praise
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17:49 < macarona> sorry if it's a stupid question but if i understood man.cgi(8) correctly, it does use slowcgi. is it to keep base simple or is there a merit to it? also somehow i can't find the actual code for man.cgi xD
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17:53 < sibiria> the only reason is to allow old CGI applications a chance to still run without having to be modified
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17:57 < macarona> sibiria: i meant more like how it looks like man.openbsd.org runs off slowcgi instead of fastcgi. i get how openbsd is keeping slowcgi in base for older websites
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18:02 < sibiria> it's probably a solution of the past that just got to ride with the times
18:02 < sibiria> i mean, it works and it's simple without extra requirements
18:03 < macarona> oh fair thing. if it aint broken don't fix it
18:04 < sibiria> maybe this helps to illustrate how it works: https://dpaste.org/me9qA/raw
18:05 < macarona> oh thxxx
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18:05 < sibiria> the few lines of code between pm_pre/post_dispatch is the actual "CGI bridge"
18:06 < pardis> how is this processing requests in parallel when they are processed by a while loop in the main process?
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18:07 < sibiria> pardis: pm_manage() forks and maintains workers
18:07 < sibiria> if they crash it spawns a new one to always keep your pool up to snuff
18:07 < pardis> but what do those workers *do*?
18:07 < pardis> where do they begin execution and what is the while loop for in the main process if the workers are doing something else?
18:07 < sibiria> forking happens right after pm_manage()
18:08 < macarona> oh i thought that was the man.cgi(8) code for a minute. a ProcManager example alr
18:08 < pardis> ah, so the initial process blocks inside pm_manage so that future workers begin execution by returning from that?
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18:09 < sibiria> yes. the parent process queues and distributes requests to all workers, in parallel
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18:09 < pardis> okay, that makes sense
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18:10 < sibiria> and pm_pre/post_dispatch() is how the worker signals to the manager that it's busy and that it's done and ready for more
18:10 < oldlaptop> macarona: did you look in https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/mandoc/ ?
18:10 < oldlaptop> note the man.cgi target in the Makefile
18:12 < macarona> oldlaptop: oh nice. found it now. thx a lot
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 29 00:00:07 2024