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03:01 < Bradipo> Does anyone here know how DEs like XFCE builds it's dynamic application menu?
03:01 < Bradipo> e.g. after I install inkscape, it will automatically show up in the menu.
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03:02 < Bradipo> Is it as simple as parsing /usr/local/share/applications ?
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03:04 < Bradipo> Yeah, looks like that's what it does.
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04:10 < mischief> Bradipo: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/
04:11 < Bradipo> Thanks.
04:11 < Bradipo> Shouldn't be too hard to script something up.
04:11 < Bradipo> Would be ideal if there is something already that parses the .desktop files and just outputs things.
04:12 < Bradipo> But hey, this is Unix, no reason to be helpless.
04:12 < Bradipo> I just didn't know what the source of the data was for the menus.
04:12 < mischief> there's almost certainly parsers, but if they are useful to you is another story
04:13 < mischief> you could perhaps get away with the https://docs.python.org/3/library/configparser.html module
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04:15 < Bradipo> Well, I was hoping for something like "dconf list /org/" or something.
04:16 < Bradipo> Or even some xdg command.
04:16 < Bradipo> They seem to think of everything, whether or not it's useful.
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04:22 < mischief> it's probably like 10 lines of python
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09:24 < Manis> But it'll probably parse some desktop files slightly wrong. The Desktop file specification goes into detail on how certain escape sequences are to be interpreted, how to handle lists of values or trailing whitespace. I'd be surprised if configparser has a 100% match in behaviour.
09:24 < Manis> And don't even start looking at i18n.
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09:26 < Manis> If you want to parse it properly, it's probably going to be more like 200 lines of $your_favourite_scripting_language.
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17:40 < anddam> howdy, topic has "Unofficial OpenBSD support channel" meaning there's an official one?
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17:41 < synaps3> mailing list ?
17:41 < anddam> I see
17:42 < anddam> I have an opensmtpd question, but it'll take a while to properly assemble
17:43 < sibiria> there's also #opensmtpd, but that channel is less frequented
17:43 < anddam> it's an IKEA kind of question, should I rather go straight to misc@opensmtpd.org?
17:44 < anddam> the gist is I was able to setup my server instance, serving happily two domains, now I moved to a different machine, updated MX and whatnot and gloriously effed up the whole system
17:44 < anddam> same configuration
17:45 < anddam> and the only thing that changed is the hostname, whose A and AAAA records I updated and added to the SPF record
17:46 < anddam> and I am totally not able to understand the -dv output to even pinpoint the error
17:47 -!- polishdub [~polishdub@ip72-208-203-185.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:47 < anddam> I guess I need to a) provide a log of the error b) provide a sample of the config
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17:47 < anddam> sibiria: but still IT here, right?
17:48 < Bradipo> anddam: You can bring up any OpenBSD question here.
17:48 < anddam> cool, also I like your nick
17:49 < Bradipo> Doesn't mean those in this channel will have the best answer.  It is, after all, a very limited audience, as compared to say misc@.
17:49 < anddam> misc@openbsd right? I assume misc@opensmtpd is an even more restricted audience than here
17:49 < Bradipo> But, if it is truly the same exact configuration, is there perhaps some IP in the configuration that should have also been updated once it got to the new machine?
17:50 < sibiria> it'd help if you describe what fails with your setup now after moving
17:50 < anddam> funny thing is I am subscribed to misc@opensmtpd but proudly using the domain I broke
17:50 < Bradipo> Or did you "hand massage" a new configuration to approximate the old?
17:50 < anddam> literally an scp
17:51 < Bradipo> And what specifically is not working correctly now?
17:53 < anddam> mail aren't delivered, and I see there's a fail, and a loop with doubling timeout (kinda like TCP congestion control) that eventually dies
17:54 < Bradipo> So email are accepted by the smtpd and are queued but are not delivered?
17:54 < Bradipo> Are you talking about local deliveries?  Or remote?
17:56 < anddam> I have to describe the setup: I have two domains and I didn't want the hassle to manage an actual mail system, so I came up with a way harder setup that receives email and forwards them to gmail accounts
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17:58 < thrig> the dynamite was not explosive enough, so we also added C-4
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17:59 < Bradipo> Better than m4 I suppose.
17:59 < sibiria> at least m4 can explode repeatedly without being consumed
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17:59 < Bradipo> Why didn't you just sign up for a Gmail account tha manages email domains?
17:59 < sibiria> the gift that keeps on giving
18:00 < anddam> like Apps for Domains or whatever it's called now?
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18:01 < Bradipo> I don't know, I don't use Gmail.  But I believe they have the ability to host entire email domains.
18:01 < Bradipo> So you don't have to setup a mail system with the hassl to manage. :-)
18:02 < anddam> it was partially because it was more expensive once you start adding account, and partially because I wanted to understand how smtpd worked
18:02 < Bradipo> So you have 2 email domains on the same server.  No problems there.
18:03 < Bradipo> You have configured it so some email addresses (or all perhaps) forward to a @gmail.com email address?
18:05 < anddam> yes, but not so easily, I defined a table of addresses for which I want to accept incoming emails (on the two domains) then an "alias" table that transforms that into any other address (in my case a couple gmail addresses)
18:07 < sibiria> you'll need to elaborate on the responses you get in the log
18:07 < sibiria> the reason why the remote system is rejecting your envelopes
18:07 < anddam> so from what I understand opensmtpd receives the message, matches the rcpt-to header with <addresses>, the message goes in forward-only action, goes again into smtpd process but this time from local source, then goes into srs
18:08 < anddam> and I had to setup srs or gsmtpd (the Gmail smtpd) would obviously discard my messages as spam
18:08 < anddam> easy peasy
18:10 < anddam> sibiria: coming, I started -d without -v and will send myself a message
18:10 < RobbieAB> Google got rid of new sign ups for the free tier something like 15 years ago... 
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18:10 < sibiria> all of it should be in /var/maillog as well
18:11 < sibiria> i mean, /var/log/mailloog
18:11 < Bradipo> RobbieAB: Shows you how often I use Gmail. ;-)
18:11 < sibiria> ... log*
18:11 < sibiria> stupid keyboards
18:12 < anddam> https://termbin.com/hpqu
18:12 < RobbieAB> And price wise, google are actually pretty expensive for a vanity domain.
18:13 < anddam> RobbieAB: yeah, I also wanted the flexibility to add any number of aliases or forward I wanted, and I do not particularly like "webpanels" so single config file seemed better
18:13 < anddam> x/single/ i/a /
18:14 < thrig> their fee tier
18:14 < RobbieAB> Bradipo: I still have my free tier account, though I very nearly moved it back to a self-hosted system on openbsd when they tried to get rid of the remaining "freeloading" free tier users... (Who are all technical enough to operate a vanity domain, and have had said vanity domain for 15 years...)
18:14 < thrig> and the probably still snarf up all your datas and do who know whats with them
18:15 < RobbieAB> thrig: They do that for 50%+ of my email anyway as they have the senders... 
18:16 < anddam> slightly updated https://termbin.com/qz0g the aruba.it is me sending myself one email, funny enough got a message from opensmtpd misc ml in that log
18:20 < Bradipo> Yes, sadly, it's hard to avoid sending email to @gmail.com, which means they slurp up the data anyway (unless you encrypt it somehow).
18:22 < Bradipo> anddam: So "mta connecting" is that an inbound connection?
18:22 < anddam> RobbieAB: yep, I had the 50 users tier as well, and I could alias the second domain. I am not sure I qualify for technical savvy though as my service isn't currently working
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18:23 < Bradipo> Is the time correct on your system?
18:24 < anddam> that I know how to check
18:24 < Bradipo> What does "date -u" show?
18:24 < anddam> Wed Jan  8 06:24:27 PM UTC 2025
18:24 < anddam> it's a debian system btw
18:24 < anddam> the timezone is not mine, but is local to the server 
18:24 < anddam> CET+2 I think
18:24 < Bradipo> Oh, debian running OpenSMTPD?
18:24 < anddam> yep
18:25 < RobbieAB> anddam: My point with that comment was more "How stupid can they get?" Maintaining the remaining free tier users costs them almost nothing, and said users are probably A) technical, and B) been around long enough to be involved in decision making - so basically a self-selected group of people they would normally PAY for the privilege of marketing their SaaS platform to.
18:25 < Bradipo> I abandoned Gmail and now recommend anything but Gmail.
18:26 < anddam> Bradipo: my El Cheapo VPS provider is time4vps that is .lt
18:26 < RobbieAB> Bradipo: I was looking at doing the same, but... I'm not the only user on the vanity domain.
18:27 < anddam> RobbieAB: I wasn't even in the fight and probably having the domain (for free) for 15 years at that point, and I disliked the decision and wanted a setup I could carry on, no gmail involved
18:27 < anddam> I'll show my config, stripped down
18:28 < thrig> dinner and a movie first!
18:28 < Bradipo> Do you have an explanation for the SSL errors?
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18:33 < anddam> no I don't
18:33 < Bradipo> That might be the problem.
18:33 < Bradipo> It's trying to communicate using SSL and having errors.
18:33 < Bradipo> Can you use something like sslscan or openssl to connect to lu-in-f27.1e100.net using starttls?
18:33 < anddam> is that why you asked about the date?
18:33 < Bradipo> Yes.
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18:34 < anddam> maybe I copied the certs and permissions got wrong, but that wouldn't apply to the TLS connection, right?
18:34 < anddam> that would be for actual signing of content, like in SRS or DKIM
18:34 < Bradipo> Well, in theory it shouldn't because it should only be doing DH key, not actual certificates.
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18:34 < anddam> yep
18:35 < anddam> so openssl s_client and a connection to that service on port 25
18:35 < anddam> OR
18:35 < anddam> use -v for verbose debug
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18:36 < Bradipo> openssl s_client -starttls smtp
18:36 < anddam> meanwhile a lot of stuff is coming, I guess MTA from all around are trying to push forward messages that got rejected, can I turn off external messages incoming?
18:36 < Bradipo> Not sure if your openssl will verify the certificate.
18:36 < thrig> setting systems up with some form of configuration management that dots the t and crosses the i is an option here
18:36 < anddam> -P smtpd
18:36 < Bradipo> Well, technically they were not "rejected".
18:36 < Bradipo> If they were "rejected", they wouldn't be coming back.
18:36 < anddam> well they didn't go through
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18:36 < Bradipo> Right, messages that were deferred would be more correct to say.
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18:37 < anddam> they died with error on my system after many many retries, I am not sure my smtpd instance did message back (not sure it can)
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18:37 < anddam> anyway, openssl first, then -v
18:37 < anddam> mind a query meanwhile?
18:41 < anddam> Bradipo: reading again the log, those SSL error are for other system connecting to me
18:42 < anddam> in fact I cannot even connect to those
18:42 < anddam> openssl s_client -debug -starttls smtp smtpcmd0641.aruba.it
18:43 < Bradipo> Can you telnet to smtpcmd0641.aruba.it on port 25?
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18:44 < Bradipo> Is smtpcmd0641.aruba.it your host?  Or is it some other host?
18:45 < anddam> no it's Aruba's host, the config says their TLS smtp is on 465
18:45 < Bradipo> Well...
18:45 < Bradipo> Now that's interesting.
18:45 < Bradipo> Almost nobody uses TLS wrapped SMTP on port 465 these days... unless it is seeing a resurgence.
18:46 < thrig> I used to run 465 and 25 and 578 as some clients couldn't do the 25 or 578 because idiot firewalls at hotels or who knows what
18:47 < Bradipo> Is that host smtpcmd0641.aruba.it customer facing only?
18:47 < Bradipo> I'm not able to connect to it either on any port.
18:48 < anddam> no I think it's public, I got it from they setup page for thunderbird or the like
18:48 < Bradipo> Ok.
18:48 < Bradipo> Well, maybe Italy has a great internet wall, like China.
18:49 < anddam> Never take for evil what can be explained by simple stupidity. - one of my favorite fake quotes
18:49 < Bradipo> Yes, and very often a fair observation.
18:49 < anddam> maybe somebody antipezzotto'ed them
18:50 < anddam> that will be a funny day to live
18:50 < Lucas_> anddam: there is way more people in misc@ than in here
18:50 < anddam> Lucas_: which one?
18:51 < Lucas_> openbsd.org
18:51 < anddam> recommended over the specific opensmtpd.org ml?
18:51 < Lucas_> and the people that usually replied in misc@openbsd.org also replies in misc@opensmtpd.org
18:51 < anddam> ok
18:51 < Bradipo> Well, keep in mind that anddam is running opensmtpd on Linux, not OpenBSD.
18:52 < Lucas_> and it's way easier to follow the problem there than in here\
18:52 < Bradipo> So misc@ may be less receptive.
18:52 < Lucas_> then misc@opensmtpd.org
18:53 < anddam> well unless this is too much noise I'll take IRC over email
18:53 < Bradipo> You probably know more about opensmtpd than I do, and I've been using OpenBSD since the late '90s. :-)
18:53 < Bradipo> But that's because I choose to use something other than opensmtpd.
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18:54 < Bradipo> So my understanding will be more "generic" in nature.
18:54 < Bradipo> For example, what does this mean? 73f3063bfeb00006 smtp connected address=62.149.156.41 host=smtpcmd0641.aruba.it
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18:55 < Bradipo> Does that mean an inbound connection from smtpcmd0641.aruba.it?
18:56 < anddam> that's what I get, I guessed each hash is a service, in order to not get crazy while reading, then those smtp lines are all incoming connection from external SMTP server
18:56 < Lucas_> good luck then. I did an attempt to read your issue, but given the nature of chat, it's all over the place, spread across several lines, interleaved with early debugging. That makes it a lot of effort for anyone that isn't following from the start.
18:56 < anddam> since this host is marked as the only MX record on the domain
18:56 < Bradipo> Lucas_: Yeah, IRC has that problem.
18:56 < Lucas_> try #opensmtpd
18:57 < Bradipo> Late-comers have to scratch their heads.
18:57 < Lucas_> that's the best help I can offer
18:57 < anddam> Lucas_: yep, but it's part of the process, I'll collect the info later and filter out the noise
18:57 < Bradipo> And the inbound connection failed due to SSL error?
18:57 < anddam> Lucas_: thx
18:57 < anddam> Bradipo: not sure yet, I started using -v 
18:57 < Bradipo> Well, you could try to connect to your own server using SSL from somewhere else...
18:57 < Bradipo> Assuming you have a "somewhere else".
18:58 < anddam> I do
18:58 < anddam> but it's dinner time so I'll have to skip for now anyway
18:58 < anddam> thanks all for the info
18:58 < Bradipo> Buona fortuna.
18:58 < anddam> Bradipo: Stay Sloth™
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19:17 < thyssentishman> does anyone know how to turn the screen off programatically?
19:17 < thyssentishman> I know of xset dpms force off but I don't want the screen to wake up on mouse or keyboard activity
19:18 < thyssentishman> I thought of setting brightness to 0, but that just results in a very dim screen, but still backlit
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19:19 < thrig> you could disable the mouse and keyboard whilst turning the screen off
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19:20 < thyssentishman> thrig: right, but I do want keyboard and mouse to work, just not wake up the screen
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19:21 < Bradipo> Close the lid and attach a keyboard and mouse?
19:21 < phy1729> I guess you could xrandr --off
19:21 < Bradipo> Ahh, nifty, xrandr has an option.
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19:24 < thyssentishman> phy1729: yes! that works, thank you :)
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22:39 < shtrophic> Is anybody here using unbound-adblock?
22:39 < shtrophic> https://geoghegan.ca/unbound-adblock.html
22:39 < shtrophic> And knows whether or not there are any forks / patches? Apparently, domain names got so long such that this script is not correctly handling them
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22:51 < Lucas_> shtrophic: I think that the suggested thing was to convert it to unbound's rpz
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 09 00:00:23 2025