--- Log opened Wed Jan 15 00:00:17 2025
--- Day changed Wed Jan 15 2025
00:00 < seninha> hi, how can i use base openrsync,scp,ssh,etc to copy relative paths from local machine to a directory on a remote host and keep the same path relative to that directory?
00:02 < Bradipo> Relative to *which* directory?
00:02 < seninha> Bradipo, to destination directory on remote rost.
00:02 < Bradipo> Is rsync in base?
00:02 < Bradipo> Oh, I guess openrsync is... never used it.
00:03 < Bradipo> But if it's anything like rsync it should keep paths correctly.
00:03 < Bradipo> Or you could use tar or even dump/restore.
00:03 < seninha> Like copy foo/bar/c.c foo/bar/c.h foo/pee/wat README to remote.net:/var/www/htdocs/
00:04 < seninha> such that they lend in /var/www/htdocs/foo/bar/c.c /var/www/htdocs/foo/bar/c.h etc
00:04 < seninha> openrsync can do something similar with -r (recursive copy), but only for an entire subtree
00:04 < Bradipo> I see, so you want to copy a specific file but have it also retain the complete _relative_ path.
00:05 < seninha> `openrsync -r foo/ README remote.net:/var/www/htdocs`
00:05 < seninha> yep
00:05 < seninha> rsync can do that, but am wondering if could also do that on a base installation
00:06 < Bradipo> Right, but you don't want openrsync -r foo/ you want openrsync foo/bar/c.h
00:06 < Bradipo> I was about to say that rsync can do it. :-)
00:06 < Bradipo> Don't know about openrsync since I've never used it.
00:06 < seninha> yep, subtree contains files i dont want to copy
00:07 < seninha> And also do that on a single ssh connection (or else i could openrsync each file, but that's more conn time)
00:07 < seninha> hmm
00:07 < seninha> tar(1)
00:08 < seninha> untar a whole tar bomb via ssh
00:08 < Bradipo> tar can do just specific files.
00:08 < Bradipo> You don't have to tar the entire thing.
00:08 < seninha> exactly
00:13 < Bradipo> The rsync option is -R
00:14 < Bradipo> I don't see a similar option for openrsync.
00:16 < Bradipo> Pity, because one of the scripts I use for backup uses -R.
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00:18 < PapaChub> Is it possible to pass, e.g., `-o KexAlgorithms="ecdh-sha2-nistp256"` to ssh-keyscan?  It doesn't like the `-o` command-line option, and it doesn't seem to read ~/.ssh/config or /etc/ssh/ssh_config, etc.
00:18 < Bradipo> Nope.
00:18 < PapaChub> Bummer
00:19 < Bradipo> ssh-keyscan doesn't handle a lot of things that would be useful.
00:19 < Bradipo> I've asked this same question before.
00:19 < Bradipo> You can do -t ecdsa, but that won't restrict it to specific KexAlgorithms, unfortunately.
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00:22 < PapaChub> We've FIPS-encumbered -- I mean FIPS **enabled** -- an Ansible server...  I could add `KexAlgorithms -curve*` to all the client `sshd_config`s...  maybe using Ansible... BUT!
00:23 < Bradipo> What specifically is ssh-keyscan doing wrong though?
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00:24 < PapaChub> It's dying with "kex_gen_client: Key exchange type c25519 is not allowed in FIPS mode" and not falling back to, e.g., ecdh-sha2-nistp256
00:24 < Bradipo> You want it to fail if the correct KexAlgorithms isn't present on the server?
00:25 < Bradipo> ssh-keygen is dying?
00:25 < PapaChub> It works if I "subtract" the `curve25519-*` algs
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00:25 < Bradipo> Well, ssh-keygen cannot "subtract" anything because 1) it doesn't read the sshd_config, and it doesn't accept -o.
00:26 < PapaChub> Dying is too strong a word; "failing to produce a public key"
00:26 < Bradipo> Yeah, I assumed that's what you meant.
00:26 < PapaChub> sshd_config on the remote machine(s)
00:26 < PapaChub> Where sshd *is* running
00:26 < Bradipo> Is the remote machine FIPS-encumbered?
00:27 < Bradipo> Or is it the client that is FIPS-encumbered?
00:27 < PapaChub> client
00:27 < Bradipo> So there must be some tendril that's inserting itself into ssh-keyscan and preventing it?
00:27 < Bradipo> Probably some crypto library that it's linked against that is doing stupid things.
00:28 < PapaChub> Yup, that's what FIPS mode does: hijacks all your crypto libraries so whenever you try to do anything "weak", like MD5, it barfs
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00:31 < thrig> hopefully without bugs, like when a selinux library was used to help gain root on linux due to an error in sudo
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00:34 < PapaChub> Registering for an extended validation certificate, after they make you jump through all these hoops to notarize your passport and whatnot, the final step was: "Click this link in your email to run some random '.exe' you just downloaded over the Internet"  <facepalm>
00:37 < Bradipo> PapaChub: What about something nasty like: kh=$(mktemp -p /tmp known_hosts.XXXXXXXXXX); ssh -o KexAlgorithms=ecdh-sha2-nistp256 -o UserKnownHostsFile="$kh" -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o PreferredAuthentications=none -N -n bogus@remote /bin/false; cat "$kh"; rm "$kh"
00:38 < PapaChub> Or the portal where you make changes to your 401(k) uses your SSN as a userid and a six digit numeric password, whereas the Smurfs forum you frequent requires a 14-char password, prevents copy-pasting, sends 2FA via an email that times out after five minutes (Greylisting, anyone?) and logs you out every two hours!
00:38 < Bradipo> Yeah, nasty, I know... there may be a better option for ssh than those I've specified.
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00:39 < PapaChub> "If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid..."  There's a fine line between nasty and clever!  ;-D
00:42 < PapaChub> PS: Throw a `-q` in there to suppress "Banner" and "Permission denied" messages, and you're all set!
00:43 < Bradipo> The /bin/false may be overkill since -N was requested.
00:43 < PapaChub> You can even simulate `-t <type>` w/ "-o PubKeyAcceptedAlgorithms=ssh-rsa" etc
00:43 < Bradipo> Right.
00:43 < PapaChub> :like:
00:44 < Bradipo> It would be nice if ssh-keyscan accepted -o though. :-)
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00:45 < Bradipo> It would also be nice if ssh -o UserKnownHostsFile=- would dump to stdout instead of creating a filed named '-' in the CWD.
00:46 < Bradipo> I suppose you could always install a system-wide /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts and push that out with ansible.
00:47 < Bradipo> But then you have to collect all known SSH host keys, generate the file, and maintain it when things change.
00:47 < Bradipo> Then clients should never be prompted for SSH host keys, and if they are, then that could be a red flag.
00:48 < Bradipo> Of course, that doesn't help if they are doing SSH to something outside your control...
00:48 < Bradipo> But that raises the question: why are they using ssh-keyscan?
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01:46 < mischief> there's also sshfp dns records
01:53 < thrig> I had some automation for collecting, checking, and building out a site-wide ssh known hosts file (before sshfp records)
01:54 < thrig> mostly learned that libssh didn't support fancy modern ciphers only ssh servers
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02:14 < seninha> Do you use to use pax(1) rather than tar(1)?
02:15 < seninha> i am used to tar and have always used it...
02:15 < seninha> since they both use the same archive format, i think it's more a matter of taste than technical differences
02:16 < pardis> they are the same program on OpenBSD
02:16 < oldlaptop> It is entirely possible that there as many as three or four people out there so dedicated to POSIX conformance in all aspects of life that they use pax.
02:17 < seninha> oldlaptop, or dedicated to a saner interface
02:17 < seninha> tar(1) cli sucks
02:17 < oldlaptop> you can mostly pretend the insane part isn't there
02:17 < pardis> around 60% of the unix cli sucks, but we're stuck with it
02:17 < seninha> but i think it's the common demoninator between unixes
02:17 < seninha> linux lacks pax as far as i know
02:17 < oldlaptop> https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/pax/pax.1.en.html looks to be a thing that exists
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02:18 < thrig> rhel.pkgs.org/8/epel-x86_64/pax-utils...
02:18 < seninha> i dont remember pax on a base debian installation
02:19 < oldlaptop> amusingly, it appears to be genetically related to openbsd pax/tar/etc.
02:19 < oldlaptop> (https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/pax)
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02:21 < oldlaptop> certain commercial linuxes care about being able to advertise standards-conformance-ish and probably do include pax
02:22 < oldlaptop> (these will be the same ones that install ed by default)
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02:31 < thrig> and not the wacky ones that link vi to nano
02:32 < vortexx> seninha: in the early days of messing with deadm00 osx86 (based on OSX 10.4 x86) I discovered pax, an archiver I hadn't encountered (only 7 years of *nix by then). Curious thing but it works
02:35 < seninha> arch linux has tar(1) but not pax(1) on its default install
02:36 < seninha> interestingly, it has a posix meta-package: https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/any/posix/
02:37 < seninha> so am thinking tar is more popular for being the thing you may find anywhere
02:37 < vortexx> I wonder if it came into OSX via FreeBSD or NeXT's 4.3/4.4BSD userland
02:38 < vortexx> tar has been around forever, how often do you see a .pax file?
02:38 < vortexx> or did back in the day
02:39 < seninha> vortexx, OpenBSD tar does pax archive format.
02:40 < seninha> GNU tar support pax format too.
02:40 < seninha> But i dont think there's a GNU pax.
02:42 < seninha> many .tar i found around culd have been pax files then...
02:43 < vortexx> from Wikipedia: Packages handled by the Installer (macOS) often carry the bulk of their contents in an Archive.pax.gz file that may be read using the system's pax (heirloom) utility
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02:47 < vortexx> there's a pax package on ubuntu which states it's history is from 4.4BSD
02:48 < vortexx> https://www.gnu.org/software/paxutils/
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02:53 < seninha> `tar -cf - /etc/hosts | file -`: /dev/stdin: POSIX tar archive
02:53 < seninha> `pax -w /etc/hosts | file -`: /dev/stdin: POSIX tar archive
02:54 < vortexx> because tar and pax are the same binary in OpenBSD as stated by pardis
02:55 < seninha> vortexx, yep; but i manuals say each defaults to different archive format
02:55 < seninha> tar(1) to ustar, pax(1) to pax
02:56 < seninha> s/but i/but/
03:00 < vortexx> seninha: pax -x ustar (from the manpage) should fix that
03:01 < seninha> gonna start using pax(1) now! The interface is better (and more rememberable), the format seems to be compatible with other implementations of both pax and tar; and saves me from xkcd://1168
03:02 < vortexx> but.... from the tar manpage: Specify the output archive format, with the default format being pax.
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03:02 < vortexx> whatever floats your boat
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03:09 < vortexx> just checked AMIX 2.1c (SVR4 vanilla), no pax on that
03:12 < thrig> openbsd history also says pax is 4.4BSD but those have been best guesses (that is, wrong) in some cases
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03:29 < lts> Let's hope openrsync isn't affected, or that will be the third in a heck of a long time https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2025/01/14/3
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03:31 < thrig> probably not due to rsync servers not being run by default?
03:34 < thrig> ... maybe I should look at a pledge/unveil wrapper for rsync ...
03:39 < oldlaptop> there aren't many things left that could possibly be a remote hole in the default install
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03:40 < oldlaptop> pretty much sshd, and whatever surface the TCP/IP stack itself still exposes (there are still people who block ICMP echo requests because of vague memories of "ping of death" remote holes in the 90s)
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04:08 < thrig> or that ICMP is a great way to exfiltrate data or run a remote shell over
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04:20 < oldlaptop> do they also block DNS?
04:23 < thrig> the small internet retailer I worked at in payments did
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09:06  * RobbieAB has memories of explaining to people precisely how trivial it would be to use DNS to exfiltrate data in one role.
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18:50 < euphores> What has recently been with gtk apps? No one of them could start on my machine. Just curious.
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19:05 < uwharrie> there was a recent pango bug that's since been resolved
19:06 < uwharrie> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=173689221602591&w=2
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21:04 < amnesiac> Hi. added few vms and now getting this message: 'could not allocate guest memory (data limit is 4.0G)' when starting last vms. And no such file or directory. Seems it's datasize in login.conf But, all size of available memory is 64 | configured for those vms sum is 40 | and after starting few with 37 last ones failwd with those messages. 
21:04 < amnesiac> what could it be ?
21:04 < amnesiac> datasize for vmd about 60
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21:07 < amnesiac> ahh time. seems all sleeping.
21:11 < Bradipo> Or those awake don't know or are lurking, or away.
21:15 < amnesiac> Bradipo, some poetry at openbsd channel.
21:16 < amnesiac> it's really wierd. Huge amount of ram available. now limits in configuration with value 4G anymore, and it fails.
21:18 < Bradipo> Unfortunately, I haven't played with vmd at all.
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21:24 < amnesiac> Bradipo, it's really great app and you spend your time with interest as you see ;)
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 16 00:00:33 2025