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00:03 < thyssentishman> no I don't. I'm rebuilding right now
00:03 < thyssentishman> thanks sibiria, I'll take that into consideration
00:04 < thyssentishman> currently I'm mostly experimenting
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06:16 < ssm_> anyone know what a usecase is for the <> (read and write) redirection? I've known about it for ages but I don't actually know how you're supposed to use it
06:16 < ssm_> only thing I can think of is reading a file into awk and writing back to the same file?
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06:22 < ssm_> I tried with sed but it just ended up writing to stdout instead of to the file
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06:37 < IcePic> ssm_: giving a program /dev/null for both stdin and stdout might have an effect of not having it hang on to those default descriptors?
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07:17 < eniac> cat > hello.txt <<EOF
07:17 < eniac> hello 
07:17 < eniac> EOF
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07:34 < ssm_> >|hello.txt
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13:29 < PyR3X> anyone used LDAP to store dhcpd/dns configuration and script configuring dhcpd(8)/nsd(8)
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14:43 < squid64> Anyone install OpenBSD on M1 mac using asahi? How would I get wifi to work in the installer? (no ethernet port)
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14:46 < Lucas_> squid64: according to https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=8108 , the M1 has a bwfm(4) device. https://man.openbsd.org/bwfm.4 says that it requires firmware. So no.
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14:46 < Lucas_> *So no, you won't be able to the wifi to work in the installer
14:48 < squid64> Lucas_: So how can I get the firmware on it without being online? Since I can't run fw_update or anything without being online.  
14:49 < sibiria> you can install firmware from disk
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14:49 < Lucas_> exactly
14:49 < squid64> So I'd have to do an offline install then mount disk with firmware on it and copy it?
14:50 < sibiria> fw_update -p /some/where
14:50 < Lucas_> do the offline install, then boot into the installed OS and install the firmware you downloaded earlier.
14:51 < squid64> Oh alright, thanks. I'm new to OpenBSD so I didn't know much. 
14:51 < sibiria> when in doubt, empty all mags
14:51 < sibiria> consult with the manpages* i mean
14:51 < sibiria> sorry, i've been revisiting half-life 2 lately. riveting
14:52 < squid64> I'll check where I can download that firmware and will try that out
14:52 < sibiria> firmware.openbsd.org/firmware should be it
14:52 < Lucas_> https://man.openbsd.org/fw_update.8
14:52 < Lucas_> yes, that URL
14:53 < Lucas_> but fw_update does list it
14:53 < Lucas_> *fw_update manpage
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14:53 < Lucas_> can't write properly today
14:53 < sibiria> keyboards... what a bunch of disobedient bastards
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14:54 < squid64> alright downloaded it
14:55 < Lucas_> squid64: btw, if you don't have an OpenBSD at hand, you'll probably want to install minisign and check the signature for the firmware
14:55 < squid64> Do I need to extract the archive too?
14:55 < Lucas_> no
14:56 < Lucas_> the signify key for firmware-76 is RWTjkGqNGXmQxWRiGhZYwI3lUuv1LNutoO7ERDCfFwLB/Lkp1aCsS4QP , but check it from another source too
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14:57 < Lucas_> after you have booted into the installed OS, `fw_update /path/to/the.tgz` will install the firmware
14:58 < sibiria> or -p /path/to if you want fw_update to search and install everything it deems relevant
14:58 < Lucas_> I highly recommend you also run `fw_update` after you get internet, which will install whatever else you need
14:58 < Lucas_> that's assuming that all the firmware was downloaded, isn't it?
14:59 < sibiria> i *think* there might be two or three files needed for the apple silicon models
14:59 < sibiria> but -p will slurp up anything that "matches" in the target directory, whether one or many files
14:59 < Lucas_> apple-boot-firmware-1.6.tgz is probably needed, but quite probably also included in the install media
15:01 < Lucas_> hmm, maybe not. The manpage says that fw_update deals with non-freely distributable firmware.
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15:35 < squid64> So I installed apple-boot and bfwm with fw_update but I still don't see anything new in ifconfig
15:36 < sibiria> firmware is only loaded on boot. you will need to reboot
15:37 < squid64> I had rebooted but I don't see anything new and fw_update just shows add done; update none; keep apple-boot,bfwm
15:38 < squid64> Don't know what I am doing wrong
15:38 < sibiria> then it has the firmware it wants. you won't see anything in ifconfig until you've configured an interface
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15:39 < squid64> So I need to add it manually? Because yeah I don't see a new name in there. On my thinkpad my adapter just showed up on there. 
15:39 < sibiria> so it doesn't even list the interface as DOWN?
15:40 < sibiria> can you spot it in dmesg?
15:40 < squid64> no
15:41 < sibiria> it sounds like you're missing some firmware after all
15:42 < squid64> yeah not in dmesg either i don't see anything like it
15:43 < pardis> no, it doesn't sound like missing firmware
15:43 < pardis> a device with missing firmware will show up in dmesg and ifconfig, but not function
15:43 < squid64> my adapter on my thinkpad gets detected on my macbook tho so that can be a way to get online at least
15:44 < pardis> if a device doesn't show up in dmesg, it is unsupported
15:44 < squid64> weird because it says it's supported on the site
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15:44 < squid64> But it was talking about openbsd 7.1
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15:44 < sibiria> pardis: but he stated it's *not* in dmesg
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15:45 < squid64> I thought it would just work
15:45 < pardis> exactly
15:45 < sibiria> which is indicative of no matching firmware
15:45 < pardis> no it isn't
15:45 < sibiria> squid64: could you post the dmesg?
15:45 < pardis> firmware is not the problem if the device is not in dmesg
15:45 < pardis> indeed, fw_update looks at dmesg to tell what firmware it needs to install
15:46 < squid64> I have to go now i'll come back with that later
15:46 < sibiria> if fw_update did add it, then there really should be something in the dmesg. post it or have a closer look
15:46 < squid64> at least my usb wifi adapter gets detected so that's something
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15:46 < pardis> if the device is supported, it will be in dmesg whether or not you have firmware
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15:48 < sibiria> i'm not sure that's entirely accurate unless something changed or was fixed the past couple of years. i have an athn(4) pci-e card that does not show up in dmesg at all without relevant
15:48 < sibiria> +firmware
15:49 < pardis> I don't believe that, because fw_update would not install the firmware for a device that isn't in dmesg
15:49 < sibiria> granted it could be a fluke with that specific chip, impossible for me to say
15:49 < pardis> have you had to manually tell fw_update to install the athn firmware?
15:50 < sibiria> i think it found it on its own but i can't remember for sure, it's been a few years since i last fought with the card
15:51 < pardis> and this isn't a recent change, it's been how firmware works since I started using OpenBSD circa 5.6
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16:09 < RobbieAB> I thought most PCIe devices should still register the correct PCI-ID even if the firmware isn't support by the drivers...
16:10 < pardis> s/most/all/, since otherwise the driver can't know which firmware to load
16:11 < RobbieAB> pardis: I am prepared to accept the possibility of really broken firmware that doesn't even manage to report the pci-id correctly. :D
16:12 < pardis> I can think of precisely one case where that applies, actually
16:12 < RobbieAB> And I was pre-empting the pedants pointing that out with "most" 
16:13 < thrig> I've seen bargin UPS that used the same USB ID so you couldn't plug two of them into the same host
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16:14 < pardis> some USB 3G/4G modems will default to identifying as a USB mass storage device containing a Windows driver, and once initialised they switch into modem mode, but that shouldn't apply to any wifi devices, but even in that case the driver would need to know what sort of device it really has in order to load the firmware in the first place
16:15 < RobbieAB> I had one of those USB 3G modems. It worked perfectly for me under Linux, it was awesome.
16:15 < RobbieAB> I have a photo of me browsing the net by candle-light in the middle of a powercut.
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16:18 < thrig> it was a dark and stormy driver install
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17:06 < lescx> Newbie question and maybe someone can help out: I installed audio/amused from ports. I removed the optional glib2 dependency, build and installed the package. But, when I ran `pkg_add -u`, the optional dependencies were installed - shouldn't have happended, but the prebuild binary includes the glib2 dependency.
17:07 < lescx> What is the correct way to manage this issue? Can I "pin" or "ignore" the package? Any other way to manage?
17:07 < pardis> you're probably better off renaming the package
17:08 < pardis> building packages is not recommended for new users and you're supposed to be able to figure things out on your own if you install custom things
17:08 < lescx> I'm very aware the building packages is not for new users but then again, I want to make my hands dirty. :)
17:09 < pardis> another option would be to bump the package version epoch so that updates are not considered "newer"
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17:13 < brass> Is there a page that describes how yacc works? I've never used it and I see it's part of the compilation process for a lot of programs
17:13 < brass> The man page is pretty sparse on how to write programs using yacc
17:14 < thrig> o'reilly had a lex and yacc book
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17:16 < oldlaptop> https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Yacc%3A-Yet-Another-Compiler-Compiler-Johnson-Hill/eae8d61d339aafcdd3c93734524aadd6ad257394 (http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~moorthy/Courses/modcomp/projects/project2/yacc.pdf appears to be the PDF link) is the paper cited in SEE ALSO
17:17 < lescx> My issue was actually a non-issue. I just had to add a `REVISION=1` field to the Makefile which installed `0.16p1` instead of `0.16`. Today I learned. Thank you, pardis. :))
17:18 < pardis> that will work until the package mirrors have a new version that pkg_add updates to
17:18 < brass> oldlaptop: I'll take a look, thanks!
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17:19 < brass> I'm a little surprised OpenBSD's yacc has so little documentation, considering how good the man pages usually are
17:20 < oldlaptop> it's kind of like how clang(1) doesn't describe the C language
17:20 < Bradipo> Well, it was probably inherited from NetBSD originally and nobody has bothered to document it since it just works?
17:20 < sibiria> clang manpage, section "Teach Yourself C/++ In 21 Days"
17:21 < oldlaptop> The kind of documentation brass wants is really not manual page material (where something vaguely similar exists, e.g. in ksh(1), it fits kind of awkwardly)
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17:24 < brass> I suppose that's true, I'm just not aware of any sort of "The C Programming Language" for YACC. I tried googling it earlier and didn't really come across any definitive texts
17:24 < oldlaptop> Ah, also: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/yacc/PSD.doc/
17:26 < IcePic> yes, the yacc dir has tons of docs
17:26 < oldlaptop> (several other things, notably fsck, have similar documentation that isn't in manual page form or hooked up to the build - I think these days you'd even need groff from ports or something to build it, mandoc not being well-adapted for non-manpage roff)
17:26 < IcePic> found the same as oldlaptop 
17:26 < oldlaptop> At a glance it looks like it's basically the paper the manual cites
17:26 < k0ga> brass: the classical reference in the O'Reilly book
17:27 < k0ga> Lex & yacc
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17:27 < brass> oldlaptop: Is that PSD.doc directory part of the base system somewhere or would I have to clone it and build it myself?
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17:28 < brass> Interesting that the docs exist, but in a not-super-obvious place 
17:28 < oldlaptop> I don't believe it's built or installed, no (and for the reasons I just explained I don't think it currently reasonably could be)
17:28 < IcePic> https://www.reddit.com/r/C_Programming/comments/kn71qq/lex_and_yacc_tutorials/ <- has a few links
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17:28 < oldlaptop> The source tree probably should be thought of as a somewhat obvious-ish place, especially for development tools
17:29 < oldlaptop> I'll agree it'd be nice if it could be hooked up to the build and installed somwhere.
17:29 < oldlaptop> (though that'd probably be a lot of work, if it's even reasonably possible to typeset with mandoc)
17:30 < oldlaptop> it's a roff document that isn't a manual page, and there just isn't really in-tree support for such things these days
17:30 < brass> IcePic: Thanks
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17:31 < pardis> the website might be a better place for a rendered PDF
17:31 < brass> Looks like the makefile it tried to include (bsd.doc.mk) doesn't exist in the current source tree
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17:34 < brass> IcePic: This was one of the links from reddit, it seems pretty short so I'll try it first https://epaperpress.com/lexandyacc/download/LexAndYacc.pdf
17:34 < oldlaptop> https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/share/mk/Attic/bsd.doc.mk
17:35 < oldlaptop> the whole groff toolchain (groff itself, but also bib, eqn, etc.) is long since gone now
17:37 < oldlaptop> perhaps it'd also be nice if the groff port could install a bsd.doc.mk to format the handful of PSD papers with (fsck has another important one)
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17:40 < brass> Probably a good idea tbh
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21:59 < echelon> off-topic, but is it possible to get a checksum of a root ca if it wasn't included in the cert chain??
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22:04 < echelon> or any identifying information about the root ca when using openssl s_client -connect -showcerts
22:13 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/certexp.txt
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22:58 < echelon> thrig: fancy
22:58 < echelon> thanks
23:00 < echelon> eh, server's will export the private key file?
23:00 < echelon> servers*
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23:11 < sibiria> no. the public key
23:15 < echelon> oh, misread, it's an option flag that takes a client-side cert for authentication
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 18 00:00:19 2025