--- Log opened Wed Feb 19 00:00:21 2025
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16:13 < passstab> I'm trying to install OpenBSD to dual boot with windows. I have rEFInd installed, but  the installer doesn't recognize that partition.
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16:15 < passstab> So I got through the installer only to get "installboot: no OpenBSD partition."
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16:20 < passstab> Disklabel and fdisk both see that the boot sector is there, but it is unidentified, they do not recognize the filesystem.
16:20 < passstab> Disklabel and fdisk both see that the boot sector is there, but it is unidentified, they do not recognize the filesystem.
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16:27 < Bradipo> I dual boot windows, but I don't use rEFInd.  I follow https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting
16:27 < sibiria> passstab: do you have the openbsd efi boot application installed on the ESP?
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16:28 < sibiria> e.g. a dir OPENBSD with bootx64.efi inside
16:30 < sibiria> you can tell refind to either automatically list all EFI applications it fints, or you can provide it with a "menuentry" in refind.conf
16:30 < sibiria> finds*
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16:37 < passstab> sibiria So I should just add that manually outside of the installer? I'll need to do that through windows then :/
16:38 < sibiria> the ESP is a fat32 partition. you can do it from pretty much anywhere
16:38 < sibiria> i don't know what openbsd installer does if it already finds an ESP containing the default "BOOT" EFI application
16:39 < Bradipo> Maybe it prefers clairvoyance instead?
16:39 < sibiria> but presuming openbsd was first in line, you can just make a copy of BOOT as OPENBSD or similar, or just rename BOOT
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16:39 < passstab> The installer doesn't recognize it as fat32.
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16:41 < passstab> And if that's not an issue, then would it matter that I won't be able to officially complete the installation?
16:41 < sibiria> if you do "disklabel -n sdN" you should find an "MSDOS" label there, usually "i"
16:41 < Bradipo> Well, you should be able to complete the install, but the challenge is getting it to boot afterward, right?
16:41 < passstab> I assume I can just run fw_update manually, is there anything else I need to do?
16:42 < sibiria> this has nothing to do with the blob firmwares
16:42 < passstab> the i disklabel was "undefined"
16:43 < sibiria> then you have no ESP
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16:44 < passstab> But I can boot via rEFInd into windows just fine.
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16:44 < passstab> Is that not the same thing?
16:44 < sibiria> not necessarily
16:47 < sibiria> do you see an "EFI sys" if you do "fdisk sdN"?
16:48 < sibiria> or perhaps "ESP", can't recall what fdisk calls it
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16:50 < passstab> I don't /think/ I did. I'll try to figure out the equivalent in Windows so I can check now.
16:52 < sibiria> this computer -> manage -> disk management, or something
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16:55 < passstab> Yes, that shows a 260 mb EFI System Partition.
16:56 < sibiria> it should hold a directory EFI, and in there you will find the available EFI applications
16:56 < sibiria> at the least BOOT should be there, with rEFInd inside
16:56 < sibiria> BOOT, again, is the name for the default EFI application
16:58 < vortexx> passstab: are you using FDE for OpenBSD or not?
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16:58 < sibiria> to complicate matters, there's also a boot order configured in the EFI Boot Manager
16:59 < sibiria> and i don't really know if openbsd has anything similar to efibootmgr on linux, to wrangle that
16:59 < sibiria> perhaps it's been ported?
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16:59 < passstab> So, if I add that file outside of the installer, it should be able to complete the installation even though it will say otherwise and won't detect the fat32?
17:00 < passstab> vortexx no
17:00 < sibiria> if you create a new dir in EFI/ on the ESP (call it OPENBSD for the sake of clarity) and tuck openbsd's BOOTX64.EFI in there, rEFInd should find it and present it in its menu
17:01 < sibiria> EFI/BOOT/ *should* be there already
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17:26 < passstab> I've mounted the efi partition in windows, struggling to interact with it now...
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17:28 < sibiria> passstab: maybe it helps if i provide an actual dir tree as example?
17:29 < passstab> Oh, hang on, I just got somewhere.
17:30 < passstab> I can see R:\EFI and R:\BOOT
17:30 < sibiria> BOOT should be inside EFI/
17:30 < pardis> passstab: did you do manual disklabel partitioning, and did you delete any partitions that were there by default?
17:31 < sibiria> EFI/ is the root dir expected by UEFI - at least i'm not aware of it accepting anything else outside that directory
17:31 < pardis> you must not delete the disklabel entry for the EFI system partition, otherwise the installer will be unable to find it later
17:31 < pardis> even if it is in fdisk
17:31 < sibiria> passstab: here's an actual dir tree to illustrate how EFI applications work in the simplest form: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1351890
17:32 < passstab> Yes, I more or less followed sibiria's prior recommendations for disklabels.
17:33 < passstab> and in fdisk, I manually made an openbsd partition because I am trying to dual-boot, and preserve windows.
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17:34 < Bradipo> passstab: Did you see my earlier post about: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting
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17:41 < passstab> Bradipo thanks, I'll try that next if this doesn't work out for me. I'm hoping I'm pretty close now.
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17:43 < vortexx> sounds like you're on the verge of getting rEFInd working
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17:43 < pardis> bear in mind that there are occasionally breaking changes in the kernel boot ABI, so if you install things in a non-standard way you may need to do this again in the future when upgrading OpenBSD
17:44 < Bradipo> Even following the FAQ I've had to update the image everytime I install (maybe I just did that out of habit).
17:45 < Bradipo> s/install/upgrade/
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17:54 < passstab> Will the same bootx64.efi that is on my bootable thumb drive work?
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17:54 < sibiria> yes syspatch and whatnot will not know that you've tucked openbsd into e.g. OPENBSD/. in worst case these kinds of updates will overwrite e.g. rEFInd
17:54 < sibiria> as happens regularly with debian and so
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17:55 < sibiria> i make a habit of saving a copy of refind's EFI dir so that i can restore it if overwritten, after i've copied the update over to the real EFI app dir it belongs in
17:55 < dvl> I'm reading a pf rule set, and I see "pass in quick on re1 reply-to (re1 10.0.0.1)" <-- I find reply-to mentioned in passing at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/pools.html - I'm concluding if I'm not using address pools, reply-to won't be of much use to me.
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17:59 < passstab> OK, I'm going to reboot and see what happens. Thank you very much!
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18:10 < IcePic> dvl: reply-to is one way to break ip routing rules, in this case for return traffic
18:11 < dvl> IcePic: In short, unless it's not working now, I don't really need to consider adding it.
18:14 < IcePic> dvl: I think it mostly gets used when you have two ISPs and want to send some traffic over one and other traffic over the other
18:14 < dvl> IcePic: A practical example. Thanks.
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18:17 < passstab> That worked in general, thank you for the help sibiria. (and everyone else.)
18:18 < passstab> Unfortunately, I seem to have mistyped the root password in installation, so I'll probably need to do reinstall, but now I know what I'm doing.
18:19 < pardis> you don't need to reinstall to recover the root password
18:19 < lts> But it might be faster
18:19 < Bradipo> What could be faster than boot -s ?
18:19 < pardis> (and you really shouldn't be trying to dual boot if that's your level of knowledge, it's an advanced configuration)
18:20 < Bradipo> At any rate, reinstalling will reinforce the steps needed to get a working system, so that might actually be the most beneficial thing to do.
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18:21 < passstab> pardis well, now I think I have dealt with the hard part of dual booting, so does that really matter?
18:22 < passstab> I would love to learn more if there is a good guided way to get better at this stuff.
18:22 < Bradipo> The best way is to just dive in and use it, but dual-boot is definitely more "advanced".
18:23 < passstab> At this point, I doubt I would learn much from doing that again. I've attempted this install many times.
18:24 < lts> Then definitely boot -s
18:24 < Bradipo> And now you get to learn what happens when you use boot -s. :-)
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18:25 < passstab> Bradipo Sounds good
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18:26 < passstab> Is that the point of FDI?
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18:26 < passstab> So an attacker can't use boot -s.
18:27 < Bradipo> Well, the point of full disk encryption is so that an attacker cannot get the data.
18:27 < Bradipo> boot -s is just one benefit, but one doesn't need boot -s to access data.
18:27 < Bradipo> I could rip your drive out of your system and mount it on another system without booting your OS at all.
18:27 < passstab> Right, of course.
18:28 < lts> *FDE and yes
18:28 < Bradipo> lts: It took me a while to figure out what was meant by FDI... lol.
18:29 < lts> :-) 
18:29 < Bradipo> I suppose in the English world, some people may actually pronounce encryption with an incryption sound.
18:29 < passstab> Oh, I'm bad at spelling also, cool...
18:29 < passstab> or initialisms at least.
18:29 < Bradipo> Some people write "minus well" when they really mean to say "might as well".
18:30 < thrig> phone autocorrect english
18:30 < sibiria> passstab: glad it's booting and coexisting
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18:31 < passstab> Fortunately, the tutorials for resetting the root password seem simple enough, I shouldn't need help for at least a little while.
18:31 < passstab> thanks again.
18:32 < sibiria> thrig: it "might of been" one of those curious and common americanisms
18:32 < Bradipo> Yeah, there's another good one.  "might of" instead of "might have"
18:33 < uwharrie> "I rectum so"
18:33 < Bradipo> Haha, never heard that one.
18:33 < quinq> The might of bean
18:33 < pardis> for all intensive purposes
18:33 < sibiria> lack toes intolerant... ok i'm exaggerating
18:33 < passstab> oh, my last question, other then fw_update, does the installer do anything important after installing the base system?
18:34 < passstab> bone apple tea
18:34 < quinq> sibiria, nice one ^^
18:34 < lts> Best retards
18:34 < quinq> lts, yes?
18:34 < Bradipo> pardis: Yeah, that's a great one too.
18:34 < passstab> let's get it started
18:34 < pardis> passstab: MAKEDEV, kernel relinking, I think it generates some entropy for the next boot
18:34 < pardis> probably other things, I'm not an installer expert
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18:35 < uwharrie> see https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/distrib/miniroot/install.sub?rev=1.1267&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
18:35 < sibiria> first boot it does some entropy, fw_update, syspatch. that's about it, unless you've told it something more through e.g. rc.firsttime
18:36 < sibiria> some helpful emails, too
18:37 < passstab> so I should do syspatch in addition to fw_update?
18:37 < pardis> it's always a good idea to run syspatch if you are on -stable
18:37 < passstab> cool, thanks
18:37 < pardis> the worst possible thing it can do is tell you there are no patches available
18:38 < sibiria> you have to, in order to get base system patches. fw_update and syspatch deal with two different things
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18:38 < uwharrie> the installer will do it for you the first boot
18:38 < sibiria> if you for some reason don't want to download and patch, but just see if something is available, you can do "syspatch -c"
18:39 < passstab> Can anyone recommend a course or another way for me to become more competent in openbsd?
18:39 < Bradipo> Another way other than just using it?
18:39 < sibiria> looks to me like you're already on that road
18:40 < uwharrie> read the FAQ, use the system to accomplish your required tasks, check out some of Michael Lucas' books
18:41 < lts> +1 on the books
18:41 < passstab> I just feel like I've been asking dumb questions, and should understand principals better.
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18:42 < passstab> Is Absolute OpenBSD 2e still the standard?
18:42 < sibiria> this channel does not discriminate
18:42 < sibiria> newbies welcome
18:42 < passstab> Thank you
18:42 < thrig> books, books, books. also lots of practice on the system
18:42 < uwharrie> it's a bit dated so you need to keep in mind that some things have changed
18:43 < passstab> That's why I asked, but I haven't seen anything newer. (Also, it is expensive)
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18:45 < lts> Nostarch has -30% until tomorrow https://nostarch.com/obenbsd2e
18:45 < uwharrie> another good one is: view anything on a blog, especially one that doesn't mention which version is being referenced, with heavy suspicion. being a niche system, there's a lot of info out there published by people with good intentions but lots of incorrect knowledge
18:45 < lts> (Or until today?)
18:45 < Bradipo> But more than books, just use it.  Take the plunge.  Get rid of the dual-boot crutch.
18:46 < passstab> I would love to, but I'm sincerely not sure when I might need windows again.
18:47 < Bradipo> Yep.  All depends on your final goal.
18:47 < Bradipo> I stopped using Windows in the late '90s (if you can even classify what I did with Windows back then as "use").
18:48 < passstab> nice
18:48 < Bradipo> Now, that doesn't mean that I don't have any exposure to Windows now.  Unfortunately it's unavoidable with work and other people who do use it.
18:48 < Bradipo> But my daily driver is OpenBSD.
18:50 < passstab> I used to just use linux, but that was a few years ago. Then I needed a computer for school, and I wasn't going to take chances with compatibility issues.
18:51 < Bradipo> Imagine if going to school mean that you had to be subjected to all kinds of Procrustean transformations.
18:51 < Bradipo> s/mean/meant/
18:52 < Bradipo> If I had a school so rigid, I would find a different school, especially if I'm the one *paying* for the education at said school.
18:53 < Bradipo> Unless it's a school that is indeed dedicated to teaching Microsoft Products instead of principles.
18:54 < passstab> It was online school, I just didn't know about pearson and co.
18:55 < Bradipo> Pearson Realize now Savvas Realize?
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21:13 < Posterdati> hi
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21:15 < Posterdati> please help. Is it possible to limit resources (memory/swap/disk usage) for a login class. I'm running a server which provide shell access to people, but users app can overflow the login.conf setup I made. Thanks!
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21:16 < tvtoon> you can try restricted shells
21:16 < tvtoon> if you can't set by OBSD itself
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21:17 < Posterdati> some process can elude login.conf setup
21:18 < Posterdati> like tcl scripts por eggdrop
21:18 < Posterdati> or
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21:19 < Bradipo> I'm not sure how they can bypass login.conf restrictions...
21:20 < pardis> prediction: they can't
21:20 < Posterdati> eggdrop seems to do this
21:20 < Bradipo> Does eggdrop have SUID?
21:20 < Bradipo> Does it run as root?
21:21 < Posterdati> no as normal user with no doas/wheel configuration
21:21 < Bradipo> Is it a daemon?
21:21 < uwharrie> or was eggdrop running before you made the changes to login.conf? or are you using a DB and forgot to rebuild it?
21:22 < Posterdati> none of these
21:22 < Bradipo> So you don't have /etc/login.conf.db ?
21:22 < pardis> here's a thought, instead of waiting for people to ask you for information on your setup and saying "no, no, no" for the next 20 minutes, maybe describe your setup
21:22 < Posterdati> new created user can exceed memory consumption by running eggdrop
21:23 < Bradipo> So the user logs in via SSH and runs the eggdrop command and that allows them to do what?
21:23 < Bradipo> What does "id -c" report for that user?
21:24 < Bradipo> If you stump us in 20 questions you win.
21:24 < Posterdati> id -c username 
21:24 < Posterdati> shell
21:25 < Bradipo> And what is it after username logs in?
21:25 < Posterdati> it is logged now
21:25 < Bradipo> Ok, and both "id -c username" and "id -c" return "shell"?
21:26 < Posterdati> id -c -> staff
21:26 < Posterdati> id -c username -> shell
21:26 < Bradipo> So, when you SSH into the system using "username", and type "id -c" it reports "staff"?
21:27 < Posterdati> no
21:27 < Posterdati> I'm root now
21:27 < Posterdati> id -c -> staff
21:27 < Bradipo> Yeah, I don't care about root.
21:27 < Bradipo> I only care about the environment that you claim isn't working.
21:27 < Bradipo> Put yourself into that environment and test that.
21:27 < Posterdati> id -c -> default
21:27 < Bradipo> So you SSH into the system as "username" and "id -c" returns "default"?
21:27 < Posterdati> yes
21:28 < Posterdati> but doing the same on other user return -> shell
21:28 < Bradipo> But that's not the same as what "id -c  username" returns?
21:28 < Posterdati> no
21:28 < eea> '/8
21:28 < eea> oops
21:29 < Bradipo> Posterdati: So that seems to be the mystery to solve then.
21:29 < Bradipo> Why does "username" show up as "default" class when logged in via SSH.
21:29 < Posterdati> simple enough, shell users have got more restrictive login.conf values
21:30 < Posterdati> my user is not a shell service account
21:30 < Bradipo> I'm not talking about *your* user, I'm talking about a user that exhibits the problem.
21:30 < Posterdati> ok it was in shell login class
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21:31 < Posterdati> currently is in shell login class
21:31 < eea> hold on.. the stated problem... username logs in, runs eggdrop/tcl via doas and is magically able to exceed limits?
21:31 < Posterdati> no
21:32 < Posterdati> no one can use doas from a shell account
21:32 < Bradipo> stated problem is username logs in, runs eggdrop and exceeds limits.
21:32 < Posterdati> Bradipo: yes
21:32 < eea> ah, my mistake
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21:33 < eea> have not seen that behavior with my eggdrop on openbsd
21:33 < eea> something seems amiss
21:33 < Posterdati> to be sure, how can make all users to comply to /etc/lgon.conf?
21:33 < Bradipo> Presumably Posterdati has a special class that's more restrictive than "default"?
21:33 < Posterdati> have I to log out them and login again?
21:33 < Bradipo> Yes, they have to logout and login.
21:33 < Posterdati> Bradipo: yes, shell
21:34 < Bradipo> Existing shells are not affected by changes to login.conf.
21:34 < Posterdati> Bradipo: eh, I need to reboot the machine then
21:34 < Bradipo> Yep.
21:34 < Posterdati> ok
21:34 < Bradipo> What's what uwharrie was hinting at earlier.
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21:35 < Posterdati> yes
21:36 < Posterdati> now I can check with ulimit too to see if the limits are corect
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21:37 < Bradipo> In other words, changes to login.conf don't apply to already running processes.
21:37 < Posterdati> ah, timecpu unlimited, I had a value for it in login.conf :(
21:38 < Bradipo> You mean cputime?
21:38 < Posterdati> Bradipo: yes, it would apply to new logins
21:38 < Posterdati> Bradipo yes
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21:42 < Posterdati> thanks people for help
21:43 < Posterdati> something was wrong with the idea that it is possible to bypass login.conf classes
21:43 < Posterdati> now it is clear, thanks
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 20 00:00:06 2025