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03:36 < Bradipo> Regarding ksh file matching patterns...
03:38 < Bradipo> The man page mentions things like *(pattern|...|pattern), and @(pattern|...|pattern), ... and finally !(pattern|...|pattern).
03:38 < Bradipo> But when I try to use them like pre_!(foo|bar).ext, it doesn't seem to work.
03:39 < Bradipo> Sorry, that wasn't a very good example.
03:40 < Bradipo> ls *.!(pdf|ps) does work...
03:40 < ssm_> does pre_{!(foo|bar)}.ext work?
03:41 < Bradipo> Let me give a better description...
03:41 < ssm_> tested, it doesn't work
03:41 < Bradipo> I have files like abc_xyz-t.pdf and abc_xyz.pdf.  I want to exclude those with -t in them.
03:42 < Bradipo> So I thought I could do: abc_xyz!(-t).pdf
03:42 < Bradipo> And that actually does work.
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03:43 < Bradipo> But now let's say I have a bunch and I want instead: abc_*!(-t).pdf
03:43 < Bradipo> That then matches more than I want.
03:43 < Bradipo> I suspect that * must be greedy...
03:45 < Bradipo> I tried also: abc_*[a-z]!(-t).pdf
03:45 < Bradipo> But it matches more than I want.
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04:04 < thrig> fancy "regex" engines usually have non-greedy options
04:07 < oldlaptop> irregex?
04:08 < Bradipo> Yeah, but ksh globbing patterns aren't regex.
04:10 < oldlaptop> What about something to the effect of "abc*[a-z][a-z]"?
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04:10 < oldlaptop> Or perhaps a ? in the last position. Prohibit the second-to-last character being a -.
04:11 < thrig> zsh has fancier globs (and regex)
04:11  * oldlaptop would prefer not to thus wickedly deviate from the pure POSIX path
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04:13 < Bradipo> Let me try that.
04:14 < Bradipo> yes, that seems to work.
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04:17 < pardis> if you need greater specificity, abc*{[!-]?,-[!t]}.pdf
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12:05 < amnesiac> Hi. is there a way to place iked initiater behind NAT ? should be placed some pf rules to forward 500 / 4500 / esp ?
12:06 < IcePic> I think it needs to retain the port, at least for some ipsec endpoints, it seems important that your source port and dest port is udp 500
12:07 < IcePic> haven't checked if same rule goes for 4500, but AH at least will not like nat, so you need to keep it to esp only
12:07 < IcePic> or, wrap it into udp or tcp 
12:08 < IcePic> this is one of the major reasons why wg is so much nicer 
12:08 < amnesiac> wg somtime blocked in path, and nobody touches ipsec
12:09 < amnesiac> yes wg is simple and fresh
12:09 < amnesiac> IcePic, understood. Thank you.
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12:15 < oldlaptop> I would assume OpenVPN is the "best" from that standpoint, since blocking TLS means blocking the Web these days.
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12:17 < oldlaptop> (They could still make trouble by disrupting TLS connections that last too much longer than a page load.)
12:18 < amnesiac> yes. however I personally still like old ipsec.
12:19  * oldlaptop mutters something about accounting for taste
12:20 < amnesiac> :)
12:28 < amnesiac> IcePic, found in the docs here - https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq17.html
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12:28 < amnesiac> If one of the peers is behind NAT, the ipsec-nat-t UDP port should also be open on the responder. If both peers have public IPs, then the ESP protocol should be allowed.
12:31 < mischief> how could it possibly work behind nat in the general case if it requires a fixed port
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12:33 < IcePic> mischief: the general case of ipsec did not consider nat
12:34 < IcePic> I mean, half of the "security" of ipsec (AH) is just impossible to use these days
12:35 < IcePic> so in the days when committees designed ipsec, nat was not thought to become so widespread and the nat-t stuff came after when they realized people would rather nat than move to ipv6
12:35 < mischief> because of..nat?
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12:36 < mischief> some people at my work recently did new work with strongswan and ipsec which are probably in customer networks, so it can't be that unusable
12:36 < IcePic> I don't think so, I think "my old fddi router cant do v6 so I will work around it until.." and then "one fine day" never came, you could nat more than once when needed and "internet" meant "I can say hi to grandma on facebook" so it was worse than before, but still good enough
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12:37 < IcePic> mischief: if you can always put the ipsec on public ips (or work against AWS ingress vpn crap) then its fine. But 10 people on a train or mcdonalds wifi all wanting their IKE traffic to come from udp 500 is going to be an issue.
12:39 < IcePic> I'm not saying there is tons of security to be had for vpns to check "does this packet actually come from the ip that the sender thinks he has", since wg and openvpn shows the math is good enough to not also check perceived ips, but ipsec still makes you have to care about the remote ip at times, and that is causing problems in itself nowadays
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12:40 < mischief> it is aws but i do not know a thing about it. does aws+ipsec not care about source port or something? source port seems like an easily changable part of the protocol
12:40 < IcePic> mischief: I think they dont, and they run huge concentrators with ikev2 to get you inside their network "safely"
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12:41 < amnesiac> right, on my phone strongswan do the thing. Want to do the same with openbsd iked.
12:41 < IcePic> and its kind of a bummer to say "ipsec" when the crypto tunnel can look different in 2^128 ways or so, and the negotiation part is a bit separate and that could be ike or ikev2 and those are also quite different
12:41 < IcePic> in obsd terms, ipsec.conf vs iked.conf
12:43 < mischief> for us these are customer edge devices so i can't imagine them all being able to use a fixed source port reliably. to me it makes no sense to require a fixed source port for a protocol, at least in this decade
12:44 < mischief> i never messed with ipsec on openbsd but if that is a requirement that seems a bit dated :-)
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13:00 < IcePic> mischief: no, openbsd doesn't care as far as I remember, but $vendor boxes do/did
13:01 < IcePic> mischief: and when you want your box to talk to whatever some other org has, then you have to figure out all their quirks, and those admins seldom have any clue except "if you buy same box as we then it werks"
13:01 < IcePic> last job had me set up a lot of ipsecs to financial institutions and banks and those guys were so dense.
13:02 < IcePic> like one whose eq. published "I support NAT-T" and then obsd would go "neat, me too, here is the rest of the conversation on udp 4500" and they firewalled this port off
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13:02 < IcePic> I had no problems asking my end to not look for nat-t capabilities, but it was so #€%#"€% stupid for them to advertise "lets move to another port" and then not allow it
13:03 < IcePic> could not make they network dudes understand that it was their fault, at their end. They would just go "all our customers work fine, we dont dare edit anything in the fw rules, it could break something"
13:03 < IcePic> I would have been fine with "stop advertising this capability", but I guess their flash webpage did not have such a button
13:05 < mischief> @_@
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16:58 < PyR3X> what is the fastest usb wifi adapter supported by openbsd?
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17:08 < vortexx> PyR3X: you're probably not going to get anything better than .11n with recent stuff supported by iwx
17:08 < PyR3X> vortexx: got a link for me to buy?
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17:19 < PyR3X> https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-802-11n-Adapter-Smallest-Plug-n-Play/dp/B08F2ZNC6J
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18:18 < vortexx> PyR3X: intel wifi cards don't usually come as usb dongles. The perf of that edimax isn't great if it's the one I bought a few years ago
18:19 < vortexx> it's a realtek wifi chip iirc
18:19 < vortexx> if you have a smartphone, you may as use it as a wifi dongle, it'll work much better
18:20 < vortexx> via a usb cable of course
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18:27 < lts> In case of a laptop, an internal AX200/201/210/211 is a great and very cheap option too. Get those iwx(4) speeds and everything
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19:21 < oldlaptop> <vortexx> PyR3X: intel wifi cards don't usually come as usb dongles. The perf of that edimax isn't great if it's the one I bought a few years ago
19:21 < oldlaptop> it's also perhaps not the world's best antenna
19:22 < oldlaptop> The one I bought... gosh, 10 or 12 years ago still works just fine though.
19:22 < oldlaptop> (Maybe you don't get the same hardware if you buy one now.)
19:22 < pardis> though plugging the Arecibo Observatory into your laptop may present a practical challenge
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19:23 < oldlaptop> I don't think the SDR tooling for that is in ports
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19:50 < Moon_Rabbit> anyone here with a thinkpad t14 gen1 AMD?
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21:04 < vortexx> oldlaptop: I mean it might achieve 5Mbps, it was enough for limited stuff on the 2001 Vaio, but certainly unusuable on my XPS 13
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21:24 < vortexx> Moon_Rabbit: you could check here if someone has posted a dmesg https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=index
21:24 < vortexx> it's best to explain what your issue with the hw is rather than ask if someone owns it
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21:26 < oldlaptop> (I know someone here had /some/ AMD Thinkpad - maybe if you take vortexx's advice someone can answer your 'real' question)
21:27 < Moon_Rabbit> I don't have a 'real' question I just wanted to know if anyone else owned it
21:28  * oldlaptop refuses to own thinkpads with the heretical post-sandy-bridge keyboard layouts
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21:33 < sibiria> i have a t495 (ryzen thinkpad)
21:34 < sibiria> though currently no openbsd installed on it
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21:40 < tvtoon> one should never own IBM...
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21:42 < sibiria> it's not been IBM for over 15 years. now it's something even worse
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21:54 < oldlaptop> tvtoon: I like the IBM machines. 755-series thinkpads are the best keyboards I've seen on an x86 laptop.
21:54 < oldlaptop> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Model_100 is some pretty nice linear mechanical switches, but the CPU is some kind of 8080)
21:55 < oldlaptop> the screen is also best not dwelt on
21:55 < thrig> trash 80!
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21:56 < oldlaptop> As far as I know the only relation to the better-known (?) desktop trash-80s is the store brand
21:57 < oldlaptop> (I guess you could call those "some kind of 8080" too, but it's a different, better kind of 8080)
21:58 < oldlaptop> It is unfortunately not adequate as a serial console for apu2 boards, they're hardcoded to 115200 baud (which the poor uart is entirely incapable of)
21:59 < oldlaptop> that was a disappointing discovery :P
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22:01 < tvtoon> the older ones, sure
22:01 < oldlaptop> I'll concede that you can colorably argue that T6x are an overall improvement on T4x or T30.
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22:03 < oldlaptop> (mainly because of the disaster that was netburst in T30, and the infamous detaching-BGA problem with basically all the T4x machines)
22:03 < oldlaptop> ISTR T30 had some kind of reliability problem too? never had one of those.
22:03 < oldlaptop> (X3x were nice machines though.)
22:03 < oldlaptop> Then again, the T6x design work was pretty much done before the acquisition anyway.
22:05 < metala> oldlaptop: what has changed in the thinkapd keyboard layout after SB? I have T470 and refuse to pick any new one, because of the soldered memory. But also the prices for new ones are way up, than they should be.
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22:09 < metala> Ah, I saw it. So it's the delete, home, page {up,down}. Ok I remember those.
22:11 < oldlaptop> That's pretty bad, yes. I'm also furious at the loss of the back/forward keys.
22:12 < oldlaptop> (which is related, since that's where they moved... what, pgup/pgdn?)
22:12 < metala> yes
22:13 < oldlaptop> in general, what *all* the prior thinkpad keyboards had in common was a very clever approximation of a "standard" layout in the limited space available
22:13 < oldlaptop> 4:3 12" machines are particularly impressive in this regard
22:13 < oldlaptop> from ivy bridge onwards lenovo threw that all away
22:21 < vortexx> oldlaptop: did you see this one go by for the trs-80 model 100? https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/surfing-the-internet-from-my-trs-80-model-100/
22:21 < vortexx> the Newseum in Washington DC has one
22:22 < oldlaptop> I did
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22:39 < vortexx> cool
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22:44 < oldlaptop> rain(6) is pretty slick on the thing :)
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22:54 < ssm_> I'm working on making an rw openbsd usb image. I need to figure out what I should disable to minimize writes, /tmp on mfs, ~/.cache symlinked to a dir in tmp, disable syslog, symlink ~/.xsession-errors to /tmp/xses-$USER, maybe disable smtpd
22:54 < ssm_> anything else I'm missing?
22:56 < ssm_> maybe instead of disabling syslog it can be symlinked to /tmp as well
22:57 < oldlaptop> You probably want to disable KARL, possibly library reordering as well.
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23:13 < vortexx> mh looks like we're facing an upgrade to zabbix 7.0 in 7.7. Hopefully it won't be the disaster going from 5.x to 6.0 was...
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23:53 < PyR3X> hmm any ideas why urndis does not pickup my Pixel 7a?
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 23 00:00:26 2025