--- Log opened Sun Feb 23 00:00:26 2025
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00:32 < PyR3X> ahh it appears it is cdc-ncm not rndis.. looks like netbsd just implemented it on -current https://man.netbsd.org/ncm.4
00:33 < dlg> i had most of an ncm driver somewhere
00:35 < dlg> https://mild.embarrassm.net/~dlg/diff/cdcn maybe
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00:48 < PyR3X> dlg: how close is that to done? something I can take for a ride?
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00:50 < dlg> it worked on the thing i was testing
00:50 < dlg> there's a 50% chance the 7a will work the same
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00:55 < PyR3X> dlg: cool i'll give it a shot
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02:00 < dostoyevsky2> Is there a laptop where one can run openbsd snf udr firefox/youtube without the fans turning on?
02:01 < oldlaptop> "snf udr"?
02:01 < dostoyevsky2> s/snf udr/and use/
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02:01 < oldlaptop> Aaaah.
02:02 < oldlaptop> I wouldn't expect there are many (if any) such machines, no. (Probably not running any OS.)
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02:02 < oldlaptop> I guess there are a relative few that simply don't have fans at all.
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02:08 < dostoyevsky2> I think the "ThinkPad X1 Fold" doesn't have a fan... and openbsd runs well on thinkpads I heard
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02:37 < dlg> 12:36:16.699477 0.0.0.0.68 > 255.255.255.255.67:  xid:0x8d1f5776 [|bootp] [tos 0x10]
02:37 < dlg> 12:36:16.699483 00:00:88:01:00:00 6e:63:6d:68:10:00 6801 392: 
02:37 < dlg> maybe not quite working yet
02:37 < dlg> 			 0000 ffff ffff ffff fee1 bad0 811b 0800
02:38 < seninha> Hi, which {ll,g}db front-end do you use on openbsd?
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02:38 < seninha> ddd is too buggy and weird, and kdevelop is too heavy, and i only know these
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02:42  * oldlaptop recommends you just learn to stop worrying and love the kbloat
02:43 < oldlaptop> it's still nowhere near as big as the electron editor thingies all the cool kids use
02:52 < seninha> seergdb looks ok, and it's just qtbloat, not full kbloat
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02:54 < oldlaptop> one of the things about kde is that they reuse components everywhere - the text editor in kdevelop is the same as kate, and 'view source' in konqueror, the embedded terminal in kate and kdevelop is just konsole, etc.
02:54 < seninha> I could just learn {ll,g}db commands, but my mind cant memorize stuff i'll only use once in a while
02:54 < seninha> except the basic setting breakpoint, stepping, and backtracing.
02:55 < seninha> More complex stuff like visualizing memory values and control flow are easier on a gui.
02:55 < oldlaptop> "full kbloat" is, depending on the situation, very possibly going to be *less* stuff than a bunch of applications that reimplement similar things instead of reusing them
02:56 < seninha> That's nice, indeed.
02:56 < seninha> I found some TUI frontends, gonna also look into those.
02:56 < seninha> none in ports tho
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02:59 < oldlaptop> Incidentally, https://www.kdbg.org/ (doesn't appear to be in ports)
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10:11 < sdk_-> does anyone stream video form openbsd to a tv? Like, I'm sitting here on the laptop and want to initiate it playing on the big TV screen in the room.
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10:14 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm not. But as general help; I've found running a NAS with a media server (I use Jellyfin) and keeping a small device plugged into the TV (I use a rooted Chinese android box) the best set-up for moving video around. Aside from that; Very long HDMI cables can be had for 10 bucks. Splitters are also cheap. If you need to go further than 50 feet or so you can move the signal over CAT5/6 with a conversion box on each end.
10:16 < Moon_Rabbit> Probably not what you want to hear but as with most things wireless is a pain especially on these new "smart" TVs where they randomly decide to work or not work depending on day of the week. 
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11:49 < Moon_Rabbit> oldlaptop: while I agree new thinkpads aren't that great it's hard to beat free (and AMD is nice as well)
11:50 < Moon_Rabbit> at any rate I did a basic install on it last night and everything aside from bluetooth seems to work (as expected). 
11:52 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm not sure if the second NIC works since I don't have the dongle for it. But the real ethernet port worked and so does the wifi card (I lucked out and got the Intel one)
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12:20 < oldlaptop> I'm given to understand the AMD GPUs are still perhaps shakier than intel, but that doesn't sound surprising.
12:21 < oldlaptop> (The one machine I have with a remotely recent AMD GPU is a desktop with a polaris11 in it, and that generally runs linux on the metal to service an unfortunate addiction to lvm)
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12:34 < Moon_Rabbit> From what I can tell the built-in AMD GPUs are pretty decent now. But I suppose with more use I might stumble upon some issues. I intended to run Linux on this machine but its been a pain. Where as both the BSDs I've tried have not comparatively.
12:35 < Moon_Rabbit> Sadly, while away from my home someone saw fit to throw my large collection of old hardware in the dump. So I'm kind of stuck making what I still have laying around work (my poor Trash-80 and Amiga is gone forever :()
12:38 < Moon_Rabbit> Anyway I do have a 'real' question if you might know. I am curious if detrached headers is a thing in OpenBSD land when running FDE. As I'd like to re-install with it now that testing has gone well. But I'm unsure if it works similar to LUKS in that respect. I'm going through man pages and the FAQ but I haven't stumbled upon anything about it thus far. In linux land I'd have detached headers+keys+an unencrypted FAT32 partition on a thumb drive t
12:38 < Moon_Rabbit> everything else on the internal SSD which would just look like random data if the thumb drive wasn't with it.
12:39 < Moon_Rabbit> ESP/boot would be on the thumb drive too of course
12:40 < sibiria> oldlaptop: i've used AMD's IGPs for many years now. in my experience they are great.
12:41 < sibiria> 3D performance used to be on the low side around 2015, but picked up pretty fast by late 2010s when the Zen series came out
12:44 < Moon_Rabbit> It's certainly much better than dealing with Nividia. 
12:45 < Moon_Rabbit> I've had three different linux distros on that machine and two BSDs and the GPU in it has just worked in all of them.
12:45 < mischief> go team red
12:46 < Moon_Rabbit> As soon as I can I'm going to build a new workstation and finally retire my aging one from around 2012. I plan to be rid of the last of my nividia hardware at that point.
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12:48 < drlong67> good morning all. using openbsd 7.6, installed cups, recognized printer, keep getting "failed to connect to system bus" help needed! thanks in advance. 
12:49 < mischief> probably need dbus
12:49 < drlong67> thats what i thought. i have if [ -x /usr/local/bin/dbus-launch -a -z "${DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS}" ]; then eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-x11`
12:49 < drlong67> fi
12:49 < drlong67> in my .xsession
12:49 < drlong67> sorry about that
12:50 < drlong67> do i need to start dbus as a service that runs on boot
12:50 < mischief> that's a user bus, sounds like cups wants the system bus
12:50 < drlong67> how do i go about providing system bus
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12:51 < drlong67> place in rc.local
12:52 < sibiria> doesn't it start by itself through some socket action?
12:53 < sibiria> on first use, so to speak
12:54 < drlong67> not sure sibiria 
12:54 < drlong67> reading man page on sbus now
12:54 < sibiria> firefox reels in dbus for something, and i know dbus comes up immediately when i start firefox on my system
12:55 < mischief> probably rcctl enable messagebus; rcctl start messagebus
12:56 < drlong67> sbus seems to specific to sparc64 systems. (so that's probably not it)
12:58 < drlong67> that helped mischief not i get "filter failed"
12:58 < mischief> sounds like progress
12:58 < drlong67> yeah! new problem to solve
12:58 < drlong67> agreed
12:59 < drlong67> thanks for that help. i feel like i should have been able to figure that out on my own :(
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13:10 < oldlaptop> sibiria: I mean specifically on OpenBSD
13:10 < oldlaptop> I'm sure the hardware itself is groovy (I certainly have no complaints about that polaris11)
13:10 < drlong67> working! installed ghostscript, removed and re-installed printer. by the was this is a network printer
13:10 < drlong67> thanks mischief 
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13:11 < oldlaptop> openbsd support is relatively new and involves code So Bad It Was (past tense, they gave in eventually) Rejected By Linux
13:15 < drlong67> spoke to soon. "filter failed" again. even after a successful printed test page
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14:07 < sibiria> oldlaptop: ah. i've only used amdgpu on openbsd about a year. so far it seems OK. i did uncover a bug possibly in amdgpu, possibly in x/drm. on the whole it gets the job done with acceptable performance
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14:45 < Moon_Rabbit> sibiria: do you have tearing during scrolling in firefox on amdgpu?
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14:53 < vortexx> sdk_: streaming from openbsd, do you mean having a service serving video / audio files over DLNA or do you want to be able to show what you're  doing on the desktop as if your tv is plugged in directly into the computer as a second screen? For the former I use minidlna, it works pretty well
14:55 < sibiria> Moon_Rabbit: no, since i enabled vsync/tearfree. for some reason this is not enabled by default in openbsd's X configs. you probably also want to enable hardware acceleration for firefox. that, too, is disabled by default. i can give you some config examples for this if you need
15:02 < sibiria> openbsd's firefox port also suffers from some mishap with its target framerate. it claims its built with 60 fps as target, but it's actually locked to something like 40 or 45 fps. it will make things appear a bit jerky and stuttery
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15:05 < Moon_Rabbit> odd is there a way to fix it at compile time?
15:05 < sibiria> i'm sure there is. it's not an openbsd problem, it's a problem with the port
15:06 < Moon_Rabbit> Yeah I understand I'm just curious as to why the port itself is locked to the wrong frame rate
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15:07 < sibiria> some oversight from the maintainer i guess
15:08 < Moon_Rabbit> once I'm more familiar instead of a bumbling new idiot I'll see if I can help.
15:09 < Moon_Rabbit> so far I'm pretty happy that what I remember from BSDs in the late 90s still applies
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15:26 < IcePic> Moon_Rabbit: even if cpus get 10x more Hz or network interfaces going 100x faster than they used to, doesn't mean the user experience or interface has to change
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15:27 < Moon_Rabbit> Yes I agree pretty much everything that's happened in most mainstream OSs in the last 30 odd years has been annoying. The constant churn is horrible and so is the attitude most people using it seem to have.
15:29 < IcePic> also, I find it kind of nice that the "primitive" installer looks and works more or less identical on all platforms, from my serial-console edgerouters, via arm ABCs, riscv64boards, sparc64s to a 12-core x86_64 with amd gfx and all.
15:29 < Moon_Rabbit> I don't even reap the benefit of the better hardware in my daily work. My high end CPU from 1999 could process and encode video at about 0.5-1fps. My high end CPU from 2015-ish today can process and encode video at about 1-2fps.
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15:32 < Moon_Rabbit> Oh all the things I've hopped through in the last week or so the OpenBSD installer is by far the nicest. It was also the only one that detected the hardware and worked without having to fool with obscure config files or using work arounds. That's why I was curious if anyone here had the same machine because I can tell someone had at least tested it.
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15:32 < IcePic> Moon_Rabbit: perhaps search here: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi
15:32 < Moon_Rabbit> Guix was a close second but userland was very annoying.
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15:32 < IcePic> if you dont find a similar, you can still send your dmesg up there so others can find it
15:33 < Moon_Rabbit> I will in a bit. The machine is listed there (sans different NIC I think) but the last report was from 2021 and I'm pretty sure driver situation has improved since then.
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15:38 < Moon_Rabbit> I really wish I could find a laptop with a trackball that wasn't a novelty 
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16:25 < admin1234> dev$ cat openbsd_fanmail.txt | curl -F 'clbin=<-' https://clbin.com         
16:25 < admin1234> Notice (02-18-25): clbin is shutting down soon, forever.
16:25 < admin1234> https://…
16:25 < admin1234> That's kinda messed up. Is there any way to support it I wonder.
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17:09 < byteskeptical> admin1234: wtf!?! noooo
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18:35 < moviuro> admin1234: byteskeptical: many alternatives: x0.at , 0x0.st , א.cc
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18:38  * oldlaptop sighs
18:38 < oldlaptop> Maybe a good excuse to (finally) find one that works with nc(1)
18:39 < oldlaptop> I remember looking at one ("termbin.com"? seems gone now) and finding out it was on some antivirus naughty list
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18:39 < thrig> I just copy files to a tmp dir on a virt
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18:54 < xse> even your irc bouncer can upload file nowadays https://irc.krkrkr.org/uploads/xse/06725c2a-cat.txt
18:56 < ssm_> that's not very unix philosophy of them
18:56 < hussein1> hi, i have a client 10.0.1.10/24, a gateway 10.0.1.1/24 and a tor transparent proxy 10.0.0.1/24
18:56 < hussein1> i would like to configure the gateway to route all traffic from the client through the transparent proxy
18:59 < hussein1> which pf primitive should i use to redirect the traffic through the proxy? I tried nat-to but I wasn't able to get it working.
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19:05 < admin1234> lol
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19:06 < admin1234> IRC bouncers. Good ol' EFnet days.
19:06 < admin1234> moviuro: Thanks for the links!
19:08 < admin1234> Perhaps we could make a pastebin that is more focused at OpenBSD, e.g. bsdbin.org?
19:08 < admin1234> hussein1: I used pf anchors -> relayd, works pretty well.
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19:18 < admin1234> So pf allows HTTP but only in the form of ACME challenges from letsencrypt
19:19 < admin1234> HTTPS is sent to relayd which in turn sends traffic to Falcon (which is the new future default Ruby on Rails webserver, aka. fastest in the world)
19:19 < admin1234> Considering putting Varnish somewhere in between this setup. (shoutout to Solene)
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19:57 < moviuro> oldlaptop: echo "hello" | nc x0.at 9999 # should fit the bill
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20:21 < vortexx> hussein1: from the squid pkg-readme divert-to or route-to will work. You don't want nat in this case
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