--- Log opened Mon Mar 03 00:00:38 2025
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01:57 < jagtalon> exciting!
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02:26 < WilliamWallace> sibiria, I couldn't figure out the keyboard combination so I couldn't switch to a console
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02:29 < thrig> control alt F1
02:30 < WilliamWallace> let's try it
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02:39 < WilliamWallace> sibiria, there's no keyboard input in the other consoles
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02:46 < WilliamWallace> Is there a chance reinstalling from scratch might fix this?
02:46 < WilliamWallace> Because now qutebrowser isn't working either and I'm not sure why
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08:13 < ssm_> they dc'd :/ sounds like a hardware problem
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08:15 < ssm_> on hardware as well supported as a T470 especially
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14:32 < WilliamWallace> I fixed all my problems I had yesterday with a fresh install
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14:34 < WilliamWallace> How much can I do with virtual machines in OpenBSD? I have a small problem I'm trying to fix
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14:36 < WilliamWallace> There's only one proprietary app I want to use, WhatsApp, WhatsApp needs an android main device for you to keep using it, and I'm going to get rid of my phone, waydroid and QEMU are both capable of this, but I'm not sure if I can use those on OpenBSD? Would it be possible to install alpine in a VM with vmd?
14:36 < renaud> People have succeeded installing alpine in vmd
14:37 < pardis> it's too bad there is no way to search packages to see if qemu is available
14:37 < renaud> the biggest issue if you want to make an android VM is that emulating an android phone with 512Mb will eat 4Gb ram and be extremely slow
14:38 < WilliamWallace> renaud, I only need to run it once in a blue moon
14:38 < renaud> you'd better buy a cheap phone, and leave it plugged all the time while using mautrix-whatsapp with synapse
14:38 < WilliamWallace> I'm not going to keep a phone
14:38 < renaud> that's what I do (for others as I don't use whatsapp)
14:39 < WilliamWallace> So basically it'll work, neat
14:39 < renaud> it will work if you have enough ram to emulate android
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14:41 < WilliamWallace> The question is, what will be slimmer, waydroid in an alpine vm or qemu emulating an android device
14:41 < WilliamWallace> waydroid right?
14:42 < renaud> I never tried waydroid, I found it way simpler with less power consumption to get an old android phone
14:43 < renaud> you can also check this: https://docs.mau.fi/bridges/go/whatsapp/android-vm-setup.html
14:46 < WilliamWallace> "Running in a virtual machine is more suspicious and increases the risk of getting banned. A physical phone is recommended.
14:46 < WilliamWallace> "
14:46 < renaud> honestly, a physical phone will cost you 20€ and consume almost zero with almost no risk
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14:47 < WilliamWallace> I just don't want to have it
14:48 < renaud> you don't need to use it, just keep in powered on with wifi
14:49 < renaud> the only issue being the battery, and it's not that simple to find a phone which boots (or even runs) without battery anymore
14:49 < renaud> but you can buy this to avoid killing the battery too fast: https://chargie.org/
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14:51 < WilliamWallace> yeah it's just that I don't want the phone
14:51 < renaud> why is the phone an issue? It's exactly the same as having a computer with emulation, you still run android. Except the phone will save you a lot of ram and energy
14:52 < WilliamWallace> because I already have a computer
14:52 < WilliamWallace> I don't own a ton of stuff
14:52 < renaud> but why waste 4Gb ram and 40-50W of power just for whatsapp?
14:53 < WilliamWallace> because I'll run it for a few minutes once every few weeks/months
14:54 < renaud> do as you want, but I tried the emulation method too and I finally switched to old android phone because it's way simpler
14:54 < renaud> and almost free since I had old phones
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14:56 < renaud> and if you need to scan a QR code for whatsapp, it's straightforward on the phone and time consuming on the VM
14:57 < WilliamWallace> but what did you use, waydroid or a full android VM?
14:57 < renaud> I tried multiple methods, but not waydroid
14:57 < renaud> maybe it's easier with waydroid, I don't know, but I somehow doubt it
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15:32 < sibiria> WilliamWallace: the problem with vmd is that it doesn't do video. you would need qemu for this
15:33 < oldlaptop> Unless X forwarding over localhost is acceptable.
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15:33 < oldlaptop> (For android crud I would assume it's not.)
15:33 < WilliamWallace> that would be acceptable 
15:33 < sibiria> tricky to get that running in Waydroid :p
15:33 < WilliamWallace> yeah
15:33 < sibiria> qemu under X would be your best bet for this
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15:34 < WilliamWallace> I might try out QEMU
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15:34 < WilliamWallace> On the bright side, DMA is forcing Meta to make WhatsApp interoperable, meaning at least in the EU you'll be able to text WhatsApp users from other platforms
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15:36 < sibiria> you can do that in a sense, over their API
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15:47 < rewtkid> When i tried QEMU on 7.5, it was basically unusable because of how bad the performance was. this was on a Ryzen 5 3600. Better off sticking to VMD/VMM, i think. You can use Xephyr / SSH (X11 forwarding) 
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15:48 < sibiria> sounds like qemu was configured to emulate instead of virtualize
15:48 < sibiria> but GPU would absolutely be software framebuffer, and that gets sluggish
15:50 < mischief> there's no hw accel like kvm, it's only tcg
15:50 < sibiria> exactly. it can't use openbsd's hypervisor
15:50 < sibiria> on the BSDs i think it only virtualizes on netbsd still
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15:55 < anelli> anyone got the 'local interface' setup working with alpine linux? (/etc/vm.conf http://okturing.com/src/23686/body). i followed option 1 + 2 on faq16 and pointed dns to localhost as i have an unbound running there (my pf.conf vm section: http://okturing.com/src/23687/body). sadly it don't work inside the vm. i has '2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN qlen 1000' 'link/ether 
15:55 < anelli> fe:e1:bb:d1:d1:16 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff' and `ping 8.8.8.8` gives `ping: sendto: Network unreachable`, same for 100.64.1.2 which is tap0's ip address on the host
15:55 < anelli> thx in advance
15:56 < sibiria> anelli: .2 should be the gateway/switch thing
15:56 < sibiria> try .3
15:57 < sibiria> the internal dhcpd will listen on .2 and assign .3 and onwards to the VM
15:57 < anelli> oh alr lemme c
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15:57 < anelli> 'PING 100.64.1.3 (100.64.1.3): 56 data bytes' 'ping: sendto: Network unreachable'
15:58 < pardis> um, if you have state DOWN then I wouldn't expect pinging anything to work
15:58 < anelli> ooh
15:58 < anelli> my bad lemme turn it on again. i had it on last time i tried
15:59 < anelli> same 
15:59 < sibiria> with this setup, once you need the VM to reach out on the net and such you will also need to route that traffic within pf
15:59 < anelli> now it's '2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP qlen 1000'
15:59 < pardis> but does it have an address?
15:59 < pardis> do you have dhcp configured in the guest?
16:01 < anelli> hmm checking again. i think there's like a log thing that shows how it acquired the lease
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16:09 < anelli> alrighct udhcpc wasn't running even tho i did setup-interfaces. i ran it manually via `# udhcpc` and got this output http://okturing.com/src/23688/body. i then `#ping 100.64.1.3` and it's hanging 'PING 100.64.1.3 (100.64.1.3): 56 data bytes' and empty line
16:12 < sibiria> alpine is so barebones it becomes kludgy at times. devuan - debian without systemd - works fine in vmd, for a more relatable linux experience
16:12 < sibiria> i've also been using void in vmd lately. has some shortcomings, but as far as running under vmd it works well
16:13 < anelli> fair tbh. i was gonna get voidlinux but the iso is big hehe 
16:13 < anelli> void is nice ya
16:13 < rewtkid> think it is user error or something. alpine linux always worked fine for me, same setup as his
16:13 < rewtkid> im sure there is something being overlooked
16:13 < anelli> weird
16:13 < sibiria> alpine works fine for me, too. i think you've just configured the network incorrectly
16:14 < rewtkid> anelli: did you enable IP forwarding?
16:14 < sibiria> the void-musl iso is 700-ish mb. shouldn't be hard to fit. if nothing else maybe you have enough RAM to spare to keep it in a ramdisk for the duration of installation
16:14 < anelli> if it changes anything 'Option 4 - VMs on the real network' worked fine before but it requires ethernet so i didn't try
16:15 < anelli> sibiria: oh not that. it's just my slow internet and i tend to lose isos alot
16:15 < anelli> but i might end up doing that yeah
16:15 < sibiria> save them in /usr/local/share or so...
16:15 < rewtkid> anelli: hi. did you enable IP forwarding?
16:15 < anelli> rewtkid: i has 'net.inet.ip.forwarding=1' and 'net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1'
16:15 < rewtkid> i see
16:16 < anelli> sibiria: i should. i made a /home/_vmd so i'm keeping that stuff there from here on :3
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16:17 < anelli> also uhhh is there a remedy for the slowness of the "baud" of the vmctl term? i has a quadcore 8th gen intel so i don't think that's the issue. 'Connected to /dev/ttyp8 (speed 115200)' too
16:18 < anelli> like vi literally sweeps the display hehe
16:18 < sibiria> full-screen updates are painful even at 115kbaud. get network going and go in via ssh, is the only solution
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16:18 < anelli> fairs. will do thx
16:18 < pardis> the vm console really isn't intended for anything other than installation and rescue to the point that sshd is usable
16:19  * mischief works with linux over 115kbaud serial lines all day for work :(
16:19 < anelli> hehe rip. mischief you need ed. ed man! !man ed
16:19 < sibiria> painful time-eater
16:20 < anelli> i remember sshing through tor when i was extra paranoid. that must've been how it felt like to use computer in the 80's ig
16:21 < mischief> vim is fine, and perhaps fortunately there's little on the system more complicated than that
16:21 < mischief> just keep your terminal in god's dimensions, 80x25 and updates don't take too long
16:21 < anelli> nice
16:22 < mischief> i am pretty sure at one point i had a debian vm running under vmm, but i think i deleted it
16:23 < pardis> I vaguely recall Void being painful to set up in vmd, but I can't remember now why (it was 5 or more years ago)
16:24 < pardis> Alpine is easy to set up, Devuan is nearly as easy (just needs a manual twiddle to make it use the serial console)
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17:59 < anelli> alright i found it. it was the 'black all' xD. now i'm thinking is it safe if i add a 'pass in 100.64.0.0./10 to any'?
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17:59 < anelli> s/black/block/
18:00 < thrig> depends on where the rule is added
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18:03 < anelli> thrig: aftre 'block all' and 'pass out inet' (http://okturing.com/src/23692/body)
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18:03 < anelli> just wondering if it needs access to all interfaces or just egress
18:04 < thrig> another option might be pass on tap0
18:04 < anelli> oh great idea lemme c
18:05 < Bradipo> Do you write programs in c?
18:05 < thrig> yes
18:05 < anelli> hehe a little
18:08 < typicat> ls -la
18:09 < anelli> wrong window xD
18:09 < anelli> neofetch
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18:14 < anelli> thx thrig it werks
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22:59 < Bradipo> When using acme-client for obtaining a certificate (with various SANs) for a domain, is it necessary to run a webserver for any of the subdomains?
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22:59 < Bradipo> e.g. if my domain is domain.dom and I want certificates for domain.dom, www.domain.dom and smtp.domain.dom...
23:00 < Bradipo> Is it necessary to run a web server on smtp.domain.dom for the validation?  Or is it sufficient to have one on domain.dom?
23:02 < Bradipo> The acme-client man page doesn't really mention much, but it does say that it uses http-01 challenge.  I suppose it just handles it for the domain and not the subdomains...
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23:04 < BasketCase> Bradipo: you have to authenticate via either http or DNS.
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23:05 < BasketCase> the software will handle it either way but you have to either be running on the web server or a registered DNS server
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23:08 < Bradipo> I didn't know acme-client handled DNS.
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23:08 < BasketCase> it might not but the clients I have used can
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23:09 < BasketCase> DNS is required if you want a wildcard cert
23:09 < Bradipo> Yep.
23:09 < Bradipo> I know this.
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23:09 < Bradipo> What I don't know is does it only authenticate the top domain via HTTP, or does it expect to authenticate all domains and subdomains using HTTP?
23:09 < pardis> basically none of that is correct, you don't have to be running on the web server or DNS server if you're talking about a general client, only a machine with access to modify the content on those servers
23:10 < pardis> Bradipo: you need one for each subdomain iirc
23:11 < Bradipo> Yeah, that seems correct, now that I think about it...
23:11 < BasketCase> for http you need every subdomain to work.  for DNS just get a wildcard and it doesn't matter.
23:11 < Bradipo> Yeah.  DNS is superior, but more work. :-)
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23:12 < BasketCase> and yes, ability to modify configs on the server will do it is just much less already handled
23:12 < Bradipo> acme-client is in base and does work.  I'll just make sure that there exists a web server that handles the smtp.domain.dom name.
23:12 < pardis> and acme-client doesn't do DNS validation, so it's a moot point how DNS validation works if using acme-client
23:12 < Bradipo> Yep, that's why it's "more work".
23:12 < sibiria> Bradipo: for http-01 it will request once with each host in the SAN
23:13 < sibiria> for blah.com, www.blah.com, mail.blah.com etc.
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23:13 < Bradipo> Yeah, kind of odd because if I can prove "control" of "blah.com" then clearly I have control of any subdomains as well.
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23:14 < sibiria> ultimately, but not immediately :)
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23:14 < sibiria> xyz.blah.com can have its own separate NS
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23:15 < Bradipo> Sure, but if I control blah.com, I also control the delegation of that NS.
23:15 < sibiria> right. hence "ultimately"
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23:15 < BasketCase> but http doesn't prove you control the domain
23:15 < Bradipo> What I find interesting is that when running acme-client, my DNS and web servers are flooded with a bunch of random crap.
23:16 < sibiria> Bradipo: something else than just the regular challenge pattern?
23:16 < Bradipo> Oh yes, definitely.
23:17 < Bradipo> I think scammers/spammers or whatever are monitoring the public registry.
23:17 < Bradipo> That's the one drawback to Let's Encrypt...
23:17 < sibiria> there are tons of botnets trying various patterns for the .well-known/acme-challenge/ path, almost since the same day LE opened its doors
23:17 < tommyrot> perhaps your registrar offer api access to renew certificates
23:17 < tommyrot> so you can do a wildcard
23:17 < tommyrot> without the hassle
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23:18 < Bradipo> I'm talking about this: https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/does-lets-encrypt-have-a-public-ssl-directory/18985
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23:19 < sibiria> they've always been transparent with everything they sign (or so they say)
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23:19 < sibiria> crt.sh, as mentioned in the thread, is the usual aggreggator one can find issues in
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23:20 < Bradipo> Yep.  I was unaware of this until I realized that each time I renewed my Let's Encrypt ceritificate, my servers were inundated with script-kiddies.
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23:20 < tommyrot> does it matter?
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23:20 < tommyrot> it's static content
23:20 < sibiria> in my case these crawlers hit my systems all the time. it's just noise to me
23:21 < Bradipo> Well, yeah, there's always the steady flow of crawlers.
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23:21 < tommyrot> that's just part of being connected
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23:21 < tommyrot> the traffic hits your ip regardless whether you run a webserver
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23:23 < tommyrot> or just manually do the dns thing 4 times a year
23:23 < tommyrot> if it's just the one domain
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23:23 < Bradipo> I don't know why that would change the vector.
23:24 < Bradipo> I was curious if anyone else had noticed a similar bump in traffic on days when Let's Encrypt certs are renewed.
23:25 < Bradipo> Clearly not, so I can tacet.
23:25 < sibiria> or twice a year with buypass, since they hand out certs with 6 month duration
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23:26 < Bradipo> I don't think the situation is unique to Let's Encrypt.  From what I gather, almost all certificate issuers are participants.
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23:29 < sibiria> it's not
23:29 < Bradipo> https://certificate.transparency.dev/
23:29 < sibiria> i personally just like buypass to have more time between renewals
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