--- Log opened Thu Mar 06 00:00:09 2025
--- Day changed Thu Mar 06 2025
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02:05 < Moon_Rabbit> I spent a day with FreeBSD and I wish I hadn't
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02:06 < Moon_Rabbit> The latest -release kernel panics if you try to update the GPU drivers 
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02:07 < Moon_Rabbit> they claim it'll be fixed in 15 but I'm left wondering how something like that slips through in the first place.
02:07 < Moon_Rabbit> The only explanation is no one even tested it before pushing it out
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02:12 < byteskeptical> it happens kernels are complex, venting is fine too
02:13 < Moon_Rabbit> there is no excuse for a system breaking from a simple pkg upgrade
02:14 < Moon_Rabbit> any user that tried to get hardware acceleration for intel, nvidia, or amd GPU on the current -release version is met with a black screen upon reboot if they follow the handbook.
02:15 < byteskeptical> probably just people running similar hardware as yourself but there are plenty of excuses. Sometimes you can learn something from these situations once the anger subsides
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02:16 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm not angry.
02:16 < Moon_Rabbit> It was reported months ago and no one has bothered to fix it. That tells me all I need to know.
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02:20 < byteskeptical> i mean clearly its occupying some of your compute. Maybe try following up sometimes people get busy and things get backlogged. Luckily you have puffy you don't need that devil
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02:22 < Moon_Rabbit> The puffy fish won't run my 30 year old game
02:24 < Moon_Rabbit> Also I'm not joining some discord server just to get told to build it from ports. It's embarrassing no one has corrected the binary in months despite users crying since late last year. I would fix it but I'm not in charge of the repos and whomever is doesn't seem interested.
02:26 < byteskeptical> brother just build it from ports why would you want to wait on someone else?
02:26 < rnelson> You could work on making it run on OpenBSD?
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09:13 < anelli> is it me or blender disappeared from ports?
09:14 < anelli> sorry i mean. binary ports. idk are they called pkgs? the ones u install with pkg_add. it's still in the ports tree tho
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09:28 < oen> theres a note in the makefile that it is broken
09:28 < oen> https://github.com/openbsd/ports/blob/master/graphics/blender/Makefile
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09:32 < IcePic> anelli: the terminology you used is correct, ports build packages, and pkg_add installs packages
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09:34 < anelli> IcePic: o thx
09:34 < anelli> oen: oh pardon me. i'll start reading ports more xD thank you
09:41 < IcePic> sometimes, license forbids packages, sometimes they just are broken for some arches (little vs big endian or 32 vs 64bit and so on)
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09:42 < anelli> makes sense
09:43 < oen> no worries, it was a simple answer this time. It could've been another reason. It's easier when you know where to look
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10:28 < anelli> truth
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20:24 < baby_groot> what is it called when all of my apps have a delay when I am using them? For instance I have a 2-5 second input lag on irc. I also have this on chromium.
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20:29 < Bradipo> baby_groot: You got OpenBSD running on a "smart phone"?
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20:31 < baby_groot> Bradipo, nope, my load is 25% and there are 4 GB of free ram.
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20:33 < Bradipo> Is your video card being properly recognized and supported?
20:33 < Bradipo> Does this "input lag" happen also on the console without X running?
20:33 < baby_groot> I am watching 1080p twitch and the stream is normal once it has started
20:34 < baby_groot> but if I do an input it takes a 2-5 seconds
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20:34 < Bradipo> input where?
20:34 < Bradipo> You said IRC... but what IRC client are you running?
20:34 < baby_groot> like mouse click it or any keyboard input
20:35 < baby_groot> hexchat
20:35 < baby_groot> hexchat has the problem too
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20:35 < baby_groot> my tty is super zippy compared to gnome I guess
20:35 < Bradipo> So you click something and it takes 2--5 seconds before it responds?
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20:35 < fishmongler> which X environment are you using?
20:35 < fishmongler> like does this happen even in fvwm?
20:35 < Moon_Rabbit> are you using gnome?
20:35 < fishmongler> and is it only input?
20:35 < baby_groot> yeah the application will delay for a few seconds and then start responding
20:35 < Bradipo> Gnome was mentioned.
20:36 < Moon_Rabbit> It's a known problem with gnome
20:36 < baby_groot> I have gnome and gnome-extra
20:36 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm sorry I don't know how to fix it I don't use gnome but I've seen this same thing on several linux distros in the past 
20:37 < fishmongler> would be worth trying another DE (on a separate ssd if you do not want to pollute your current setup)
20:37 < fishmongler> maybe fuguita could be useful for this
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20:37 < Moon_Rabbit> Yeah try another DE or WM to see I may be wrong
20:38 < Moon_Rabbit> I think it's an issue with mutter but I can't remember for sure
20:38 < baby_groot> ok
20:38 < Bradipo> What other DE is there in OpenBSD? :-)
20:38 < Bradipo> XFCE?
20:38 < Bradipo> I suppose there's also Mate.
20:38 < fishmongler> at least you'll know if it's gnome problems and not device issues
20:38 < fishmongler> fvwm is the "official" one and should always work
20:38 < Moon_Rabbit> cwm is in base system that'll tell you what you need to know
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20:38 < Bradipo> I prefer to use fvwm.
20:39 < fishmongler> the base has a few, i think fvwm is default (and good enough)
20:39 < Moon_Rabbit> Yeah it is
20:40 < fishmongler> xfce should also work on anything that has a pulse
20:40 < Bradipo> I've stopped using XFCE.  It got too flaky.
20:40 < Bradipo> I think it's probably something with the messagebus.  Sometimes it just locks up.
20:41 < fishmongler> it could be better i agree
20:41 < Moon_Rabbit> XFCE suffers from the gtk problem
20:41 < Bradipo> What's the gtk problem?
20:41 < Moon_Rabbit> the fact that they ruined it after version 2
20:41 < Bradipo> It seems to me that over time, XFCE has degraded in performance or something.
20:41 < fishmongler> all i want for christmas is something as light as fvwm with the ux of win7 explorer
20:41 < Moon_Rabbit> Openbox is what you want
20:42 < Bradipo> I used to use Fluxbox and tried Openbox.  I still prefer fvwm these days.  It just works.
20:42 < Bradipo> I can customize it to my hearts content.
20:42 < Moon_Rabbit> I personally use dwm+emacs
20:42 < fishmongler> i unironically offer $20k or more (for negotiation) bounty for a proof of concept that works on openbsd
20:42 < Bradipo> I'm not even sure what's so nice about win7 explorer that one would offer a reward for emulating it, lol.
20:42 < fishmongler> i just want modern hotkeys...
20:42 < Moon_Rabbit> Openbox+bar of your choice is basically the old Win explorer set-up
20:42 < fishmongler> i'll look into it thanks
20:43 < Bradipo> Define "modern hotkeys".  You can create just about any combination of hotkeys you want in fvwm.
20:43 < Moon_Rabbit> you don't even need fvwm you can do it with just X11
20:43 < Bradipo> Really?  I wasn't aware of that.
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20:44 < fishmongler> i need things like win+arrow left-right paning on multiple monitors
20:44 < Bradipo> Not that I'm surprised.  I think X11 has way more features than most people even realize.
20:44 < Moon_Rabbit> .Xcompose
20:44 < fishmongler> xfce is the closest i know to a win32 clone but it's barely above xp level
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20:44 < Bradipo> fishmongler: I use win+arrow to pan.
20:44 < Bradipo> I don't have multiple monitors, so I don't know about that.
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20:44 < fishmongler> some of those shortcuts have been ported but it's always a bit off
20:45 < Moon_Rabbit> This is why I like dwm I just define keys in config.h and they work everywhere. I dedicate the super key to it and CAPSLOCK as ctrl+alt for emacs stuff.
20:46 < Bradipo> I haven't used Windows enough to even know what shortcuts it has...
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20:46 < Moon_Rabbit> Windows is basically emacs binds
20:46 < Bradipo> I just define my own in whatever WM I use.
20:47 < uwharrie> there's also xbindkeys if you WM/DE hop a lot
20:47 < fishmongler> even though xfce has some cool additions like corner paning
20:47 < fishmongler> i have not been able to jump off win7 for my workstation yet, almos everthing else is openbsd already
20:47 < fishmongler> the slowness of x11 UX is stopping me
20:47 < fishmongler> we do not even have an xterm any close to conemu or a text editor to replace notepad++. it sucks.
20:47 < Moon_Rabbit> if you want something like dwm but with config file that's awesomewm basically
20:47 < Bradipo> Haha, well, I cannot imagine using anything other than vi(1) for editing.
20:47 < baby_groot> switching off gnome, and the apps all respond instantly now
20:47 < fishmongler> Bradipo: there is a huge blind spot unix advocates have in this regard
20:47 < Bradipo> And xterm is tough to beat in my books.
20:47 < fishmongler> matching the productivity of an nt power user is tough
20:47 < Moon_Rabbit> yeah sounds like the mutter problem then
20:48 < fishmongler> these people have the actions-per-minute of a korean starcraft player
20:48 < Bradipo> How does one measure the "productivity of an NT power user"?
20:48 < thrig> I find Windows to be vigorously unusable
20:48 < Moon_Rabbit> I've been able to do most of my windows stuff on FreeBSD and Gentoo. But it's a pain to set it all up.
20:48 < uwharrie> ...and then compare it to the productivity of a *nix power user?
20:49 < Moon_Rabbit> granted my "windows stuff" is 10+ year old games and video editing
20:49 < Moon_Rabbit> once vapoursynth became stable and I could move off avisynth I didn't need windows much anymore
20:49 < Bradipo> Moon_Rabbit: XCompose(5) looks interesting.
20:50 < Moon_Rabbit> there is a helper application to set those at run time but I can't remember what it's called right now
20:50 < fishmongler> i am willing to throw real money at people willing to make openbsd catch up
20:50 < fishmongler> i literally would not meet deadlines if i used bsd on my main. it sucks because hw support is there
20:50 < uwharrie> also check out: https://github.com/kragen/xcompose
20:50 < fishmongler> we also could use better x-less console ux, linux is a bit ahead here
20:50 < Moon_Rabbit> wayland isn't that great to be honest
20:51 < uwharrie> that's the problem, most bsd people have different but just as productive workflows and aren't intersted in trying to reproduce the Windows experience
20:51 < Moon_Rabbit> there are some patches for X11 the devs refuse to merge that have been around for 2-3 years now that do everything wayland claims to have over X feature wise
20:51 < fishmongler> vga(4) wscons is pretty good though. drm(4) wscons kinda sux
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20:52 < Moon_Rabbit> I am...slowly attempting to tard wrangle freebsd into a platform set-up to run old windows software (mostly doujin stuff) with a similar UI but I have little time and always get frustrated by the lack of driver support and the fact that it's unstable as all hell
20:52 < Bradipo> I don't see how notepad++ is something worth paying to have on OpenBSD.
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20:52 < fishmongler> Bradipo: hard to quantify that, but i felt about 3x slower on X
20:53 < Bradipo> But why not offer the notepad++ developers to port it to OpenBSD?
20:53 < Moon_Rabbit> OpenBSD is never going to be the platform for that kind of stuff it's good because it doesn't focus on that.
20:53 < Bradipo> 3X slower doing what?
20:53 < Moon_Rabbit> OpenBSD is "correct"
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20:54 < Bradipo> The one thing that would probably make OpenBSD be perceived as "being faster" would be to improve the filesystem/disk I/O performance.
20:54 < Moon_Rabbit> If you really need an OS to replace Windows FreeBSD is probably your best bet right now. Or Gentoo if you're willing to deal with the cluster fuck that is modern linux land.
20:54 < fishmongler> uwharrie: the typical unix user has a terminal optimized workflow, but there is a ceiling to that
20:54 < Bradipo> I imagine most of the time what people perceive as "OpenBSD being slow" is just a slower disk I/O.
20:54 < Moon_Rabbit> OpenBSD is very fast on my laptop. Which is where I mainly use it outside of servers
20:55 < Bradipo> Yeah, modern SSD and other similar "hard" drive technology has kind of made OpenBSD seem faster lately.
20:55 < Moon_Rabbit> granted it has 8 cores but 
20:55 < fishmongler> also there is a n++ clone (notepadnext) in the works, so this will get fixed eventually. there's also geany but that's very barebones
20:55 < Bradipo> But throw FDE on it and things will get slower.
20:55 < fishmongler> openbsd is fast bloatwise, just not ux wise (unless you do X-less like i do)
20:55 < Moon_Rabbit> I run FDE but it's an nvme yeah
20:56 < Moon_Rabbit> Mine is very fast UI/UX wise but again; dwm, terminals, and emacs.
20:56 < fishmongler> i use it that way on a T41 that serves as my home gateway/firewall
20:56 < Bradipo> Yeah, for a gateway/firewall you don't need X.
20:56 < fishmongler> really quality OS all around. good stuff. glad it exists
20:58 < fishmongler> all my servers are bsd too. just not the machine where i actuallly code
20:58 < fishmongler> i wonder how much would it cost to just make a new DE/WM from scratch 
20:58 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm sure you'd think it was faster if you tried something not based on gnome/gtk.
20:58 < Bradipo> Seriously though, why don't you pay notepad++ developers to port it to OpenBSD.  Seems like that would be faster, simpler, whatever, than writing it from scratch.
20:58 < fishmongler> me and my org realistically only need like 20 percent of win32 recreated
20:59 < Moon_Rabbit> we don't really need a new DE/WM. Just a pre-configured Openbox+bar+handful of appliations would replicate old Windows work flow (Win2k-7 era) and be much faster than something like gnome, MATE etc.
20:59 < Bradipo> I thought there was already something out there that was supposed to "emulate" a Windows environment.
20:59 < fishmongler> Bradipo: actually i do stuff on that machine, the x-less part is for text input performance
21:00 < Moon_Rabbit> No one really does it right (emulation of Window's old GUI) and yes I'm sure some organizations would pay for it.
21:00 < fishmongler> and also because the tty is literally smoother to use than x, x is just bad
21:01 < fishmongler> i do not think that anything exists that actually emulates an nt6 user's environment, be it on x or wayland
21:01 < Bradipo> I don't buy it.  I use X and xterm all day long and haven't noticed any serious problems with "input".
21:01 < Moon_Rabbit> X11 on OpenBSD is not like X11 everywhere else tbf maybe he's basing that on running it elsewhere.
21:01 < Bradipo> Not sure why console tty would be "smoother" than xterm as a tty.
21:01 < fishmongler> there aren't a lot of people who had to reach that speed in the first place. but my job demanda it
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21:02 < fishmongler> there's also the performance of GDI (probably hand rolled asm), you can tank some of that with moores law but overall *only* fvwm has felt that fast to me
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21:03 < Moon_Rabbit> the problem with replicating NT 6 100% UI wise is the fact that it's menus upon menus upon menus most of which are for things that don't even apply in UNIX. Like the registry.
21:03 < fishmongler> but please point mw at fvwm customization lore, i heard xfce started as a fvwm fork
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21:03 < fishmongler> maybe this is the way to do it
21:04 < Moon_Rabbit> you should probably just give openbox a try before you attempt to go down that route
21:04 < uwharrie> or https://github.com/mintsuki/fvwm95
21:04 < Moon_Rabbit> the bar you want is called tint2 btw
21:04 < Bradipo> I will admit that fvwm customization has a learning curve.
21:05 < Bradipo> I spent considerable time messing around with getting FvwmButtons to do something that I want.
21:05 < fishmongler> Moon_Rabbit: the actual speed in nt comes from stuff like having a sane clipboard and insane 3rd party programs like conemu. there is currently no xterm that matches that and it's horrible.
21:06 < Moon_Rabbit> I use st 
21:06 < Bradipo> Wow, that's the first time I've heard of clipboard as being a "killer feature".
21:06 < fishmongler> sorry for derailing the channel with my drunk windrone 
21:06 < fishmongler> rants
21:06 < Bradipo> But maybe for copy/paste huge objects, I can see that bein a problem.
21:06 < Moon_Rabbit> to be fair the clipboard in X11 is kind of stupid
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21:07 < fishmongler> but there is a sizeable population with no home OS atm and openbsd is the correct choice for them
21:07 < Bradipo> Well, there's two.  clipboard and cut buffers.
21:07 < Moon_Rabbit> in emacs land it's called yanking :D
21:07 < Bradipo> Yeah, same with vi.
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21:08 < Moon_Rabbit> fishmongler: the sad reality is in 10 more years you won't even be allowed to own a computer. So enjoy it while it lasts. They know they have everyone by the balls. ;/
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21:08 < Bradipo> It's already half-way there: https://0x0.st/XYJg.jpg
21:08 < Moon_Rabbit> BCI is coming soon and most will get it
21:08 < uwharrie> hehe, don't bring up emacs vernacular unless you want a separate rant about how it needs to modernize by renaming everything to more "modern" terms
21:08 < fishmongler> Moon_Rabbit: have you tried coding anything that involves thwe clipboard in both systems? both are insane but x11 is especially insane
21:08 < fishmongler> and mouse3 is NOT a good hotkey for paste
21:09 < Bradipo> My coding style often has nothing to do with the clipboard.
21:09 < Moon_Rabbit> Yes I'm aware both systems are assbackwards its been that way for most of my life.
21:09 < uwharrie> my clipboard usage is amazing /waves hands/
21:09 < Moon_Rabbit> I mean we're in a channel for what is basically a 1960s era OS after all
21:10  * Moon_Rabbit weeps for his Amiga
21:10 < fishmongler> i heard emacs is the productivity nirvana but the problem is that it's all contained within the emacs terminal window
21:10 < fishmongler> if there is anyone who matches my workflow speed it's probably an emacs user
21:10 < Moon_Rabbit> my poor genlock thrown in the garbage it didn't deserve it
21:10 < Bradipo> And yet, whenever I use Windows I have the same complaints about it lacking middle-mouse paste, cut buffers, and numerous other things.
21:10 < Moon_Rabbit> emacs users could be productive if they ever stopped customizing emacs
21:11 < fishmongler> i cannot scroll up on this ancient phone so ill just reply blindly: the very people i am trying to build a win7-openbad 
21:11 < uwharrie> and why does it use stupid ctrl+c & ctrl+v instead of the more sane and better alt+w & ctrl+y
21:11 < thrig> Windows also has a bazillion things to turn off, and a tendency to turn them back on when you're not looking. Utter trash.
21:12 < Moon_Rabbit> I have one Win10 machine on my LAN left and the amount of traffic it attempts to send over the LAN while "turned off" is stunning.
21:13 < Moon_Rabbit> The AppleTV we have likes to turn itself on at 3am and attempt to send data somewhere too
21:13 < Moon_Rabbit> They forced us to buy that AppleTV to hook up broadband lol
21:14 < fishmongler> win7-opwnbsd bridge for are the kind of people who can stand up to the "we will not be allowed to own a computer in 10 years" problem
21:14 < fishmongler> the bigger problem is the civilizational regression in OS development, openbsd is precious but so undermanned
21:14 < fishmongler> we need a casual-usable fiahbsd yesterday
21:14 < fishmongler> even though it is the easiest unix, i'm stunned by how intuitive it is. it's very funny, vanilla openbsd looks and quacks like my hyper-debloated win7 install
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21:15 < uwharrie> the reason a lot of us are here is that openbsd *doesn't* care to cater to the non-technical or attempt to win over users
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21:16 < Moon_Rabbit> it's true. Those people are the reason we're in this mess to be frank. They do not care. They will keep not caring and buying shit and thinking it's amazing. They are why the tech industry has devolved into what it is today. I know it sounds elitist but it's true and it makes me sad.
21:16 < ssm_> openbsd is for hardcore gamers only
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21:17 < Moon_Rabbit> it's not that we're hardcore it's just nice to have a oasis left
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21:17 < Moon_Rabbit> I wish more people would use it and contribute to projects like it
21:17 < fishmongler> and linux is a nightmare comparatively, nothing works on linux
21:17 < fishmongler> it's like linux people are too fixated on larping as leet hackers to actually make their manpages readable
21:18 < Bradipo> We can certainly agree that Linux is a mess these days.
21:18 < Moon_Rabbit> What frustrates me most is the people that continue buying video game consoles pushing the same Unreal engine graphics they had 20 years ago and thinking the graphics are amazing because the TV told them it was.
21:18 < Bradipo> I actually cut my teeth on Linux, but over the years have abandoned it for OpenBSD>
21:19 < Bradipo> But, as pointed out, Linux has all the flash and allure at the moment.
21:20 < Moon_Rabbit> I started on Linux because it was the only viable thing I could run. No one was selling *BSD in the store on CD and there was no way I was going to download it on 14k dial-up that stayed online for 30 minutes at a time on a good day.
21:20 < fishmongler> hardcore gamers play on emulators and would be perfectly happy pn openbsd as long as they have an AMD card
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21:20 < fishmongler> the fact that you can buy a bleeding edge pc and have one of the strictest libre OSes boot on it with hw accel out of the box is blessed. if i only played games i would already be full bsd
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21:21 < Moon_Rabbit> Hardcore gamers in 2000 are not the same 'hardcore' gamers today
21:21 < Bradipo> At the moment, my number one thing to have is better WIFI support. I would pay for that.
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21:21 < Bradipo> None of the "modern" USB wifi adapters work.  I went through 5--6 adapters from Best Buy, and in the end returned with none.
21:21 < fishmongler> i have no idea what do linux people mean when they complain about openbsd hw support. it has always detected the most obscure things i plugged in.
21:22 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm thankful my laptop's wifi is at least supported. Thankfully it isn't the winmodem all over again
21:22 < Bradipo> Yes, OpenBSD does great with *most* hardware.
21:22 < Bradipo> How old is the laptop?
21:22 < Bradipo> Older laptops are likely to have working wifi.
21:22 < Moon_Rabbit> 3-4 years I think? It's a thinkpad
21:22 < uwharrie> it's the other side of the coin when windows users complain about linux hardware support
21:22 < fishmongler> Moon_Rabbit: meh. i do not consider most zoomers sentient
21:23 < uwharrie> there's non-mainstream stuff that doesn't work as well if at all on both platforms
21:23 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm not pulling down 2Gbps or anything (unless I plug in ethernet cable) but the speed I get on my card is more than acceptable. 
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21:24 < Moon_Rabbit> I pulled down the entire ports directory from the other side of the world this morning in like 20 minutes. I'm happy with that. 
21:24 < ssm_> I get 130some Mbit down on my Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX210, which is slower than the 300 other users on my lan get, but it's definitely not slow
21:24 < Moon_Rabbit> I think I have same or similar wifi card
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21:25 < fishmongler> I actuallt picked up openbsd because of my insane server security requirements. i have actual enemies and do serious things on the compute.
21:25 < fishmongler> I actuallt picked up openbsd because of my insane server security requirements. i have actual enemies and do serious things on the computer. the fish has not failed me once
21:25 < fishmongler> linux burnt me and fishbsd healed me
21:25 < ssm_> 11ax isn't support yet, maybe that's why
21:26 < Moon_Rabbit> I worked over unstable 100+ year old phone lines for decades so I'm easy to please
21:26 < Moon_Rabbit> although I did recently finally get fiber installed at my home and it's very nice
21:26 < ssm_> slow hardware is good because it lets you know what software you use is bad
21:27 < Bradipo> Haha, well, that pretty much identifies Firefox and Chrome.
21:27 < ssm_> that's what VAX was used for before it got retired, apparently
21:27 < Moon_Rabbit> God browsers are so horrible now wtf happened
21:27 < Moon_Rabbit> all those years spent promoting xhtml for free for nothing
21:27 < Bradipo> What happened is "local storage".
21:28 < Bradipo> They opened up pandora's box with that.
21:29 < Moon_Rabbit> haha I forgot about modern browsers helping themselves to raping SSDs 
21:29 < Bradipo> It's even worse if you're on platters.
21:29 < Moon_Rabbit> I tracked one the other day on someone's Windows box and it writes 2-5GB of data every hour for no other reason than because it can
21:30 < Bradipo> Yep.
21:30 < uwharrie> distributing applications is hard, let's take a poorly thought out, haphazardly designed scripting language, shove it into a monstrous sandbox, and use it to automate document transformation instead
21:30 < Moon_Rabbit> At least the platters don't have a limited life span
21:30 < phy1729> Moon_Rabbit: avoid that language in the future please
21:30 < Bradipo> I have no idea what FF does but when I first start it up, it has to write GB of data...
21:30 < Moon_Rabbit> Watch it while idling on a youtube tab
21:31 < Bradipo> I'm tempted to mount mfs on top of ~/.mozilla/firefox
21:31 < baby_groot> i feel ironical using gnu on suckless
21:32 < Moon_Rabbit> If you asked me a couple of days ago I could tell you exactly what you need to point to RAM disk because I just went through this but I've already forgotten. I know it's 2 or 3 different directories it just writes to constantly for no reason.
21:32 < baby_groot> how do you see disk usage?
21:32 < anelli> baby_groot: suckless what? i think they have a linux distro or somth
21:32 < baby_groot> anelli they have a window manager, but their style is everything is minimal and high utility
21:33 < Bradipo> baby_groot: I typically use: systat io
21:33 < Bradipo> But there is also: systat vmstat
21:34 < Moon_Rabbit> I know one thing it constantly writes to is the user profile but it also writes to another location for whatever webpage is active no matter if it's doing anything or not.
21:34 -!- fishmongler [~user@user-5-173-172-43.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting]
21:34 < anelli> baby_groot: o ya dwm. the phrasing sounded like they were running a suckless os tho
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21:34 < anelli> :b
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21:34 < Moon_Rabbit> The "fix" is pointing everything to RAM disk then writing out to HDD/SSD every <x> minutes to ensure you don't lose state if it all crashes
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21:35 < anelli> baby_groot: oh lol i thought you were a diff nick sorry
21:35 < anelli> my fonts are wonky today so it's hard to read
21:35 < anelli> hate x11 fonts
21:35 < Bradipo> Moon_Rabbit: Right, I was thinking of syncing somewhere.
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21:35 < anelli> s/hate/hate dealing with configuring/ :b
21:36 < Moon_Rabbit> I can't keep up with what the no-no words are
21:36 < Moon_Rabbit> I like the word retard too much to stop using it so you'll have to allow that 
21:37 < phy1729> Nope
21:37 < Moon_Rabbit> can I say slow?
21:37 < phy1729> Sure
21:37 < Bradipo> Can I say 1984?
21:37 < Moon_Rabbit> what about ward of the state?
21:38 < phy1729> Sigh, just try to not be a jerk. Trying to rules lawyer is also being a jerk
21:38 < Moon_Rabbit> I wasn't being a jerk. What firefox does to hardware is the definition of that word
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21:39 < Moon_Rabbit> >an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation:
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21:40 < baby_groot> Bradipo, my theoretical answer to usb dongles not working, was to plug them into a Pi and use it as a WAP
21:40 -!- fishmongler [~user@user-5-173-172-43.play-internet.pl] has joined #openbsd
21:40 < baby_groot> when they're wifi usbs
21:40 < baby_groot> I did not try it though
21:41 < Bradipo> I'm not sure how a WAP solves the problem of getting WIFI to OpenBSD.
21:41 < baby_groot> u put linux or freebsd on the pi
21:42 < Bradipo> I have some PCMCIA wifi cards that still work, but they don't fit in new hardware.
21:42 < Moon_Rabbit> We could have had B-TRON instead of Linux and Windows :(
21:43 < Moon_Rabbit> I need to go overseas again and see if I can get my hands on Cho-Kanji
21:44 < Moon_Rabbit> oh neat there is a working archive still up: https://mega.nz/folder/SI93mQKS#maGTZfIwe3zMxVfp16TiJw
21:44 < fishmongler> plz send me your pcmcia cards if you dont need them =) my t41 can take those
21:45 < baby_groot> i have like 2GB more free ram without gnome :D
21:45 < Bradipo> Haha, I still use the PCMCIA card in *older* hardware.
21:45 < fishmongler> i promise to only use them to communicate with the most esoteric sovl hardware
21:45 < Bradipo> Maybe I shouldn't have admitt... [knock knock].  Man who's at my door now, it's fishmongler looking for my PCMCIA cards.
21:46 < fishmongler> li e this n900 im typing from (todo: install openbsd)
21:46 < fishmongler> someone already did bsd on this OMAP i wonder how hard would it be
21:47 < fishmongler> my currwnt pcmcia network card did detect on bsd, i just wasnt given an rj45 cable with it.
21:48 < Moon_Rabbit> http://www.chokanji.com/ckv/manual/index.html
21:49 < Moon_Rabbit> Really interesting OS. I wonder if anyone has installed it on bare metal
21:49 < fishmongler> the sad reality of buying pcmcia cards in 2025......
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21:53 < Moon_Rabbit> Damn the site has nothing about install on bare metal just running in VMware
21:55 < Moon_Rabbit> http://www.chokanji.com/ckv/ckveng.html  English support kit if anyone wants to play with it
21:55 < Moon_Rabbit> http://www.chokanji.com/press/ckveng/ckv_eng_img.png looks fun
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21:57 < fishmongler> oh no its japanese. i do not know enough kanji for this yet. summary before my phone dies plz?
21:58 < fishmongler> is this openbsd based:
21:58 < Moon_Rabbit> It's a micro-kernel OS based on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTRON  Which if you read further down Microsoft got the US to start a trade war over which led to the "lost years" for Japan (late 80s-2000s depression)
21:58 < Moon_Rabbit> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTRON#Trade_Issues  Good if slightly biased summary
21:59 < Moon_Rabbit> They were going to deploy them in schools and Microsoft and IBM shut it down fast
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22:00 < fishmongler> oh wait. is that the lost japanese OS of the 90s that windows pushed out?
22:00 < fishmongler> i sort of heard of it
22:00 < Moon_Rabbit> BTRON was part of a larger project called TRON the brain child of Ken Sakamura. He wanted to develop an OS for the good of society that would run everything from phones, tv, PCs, factories, cars to the trains.
22:01 < Moon_Rabbit> TRON = The Real-time Operating system Nucleus
22:01 < fishmongler> of course it's #openbsd i'd see this mentioned on. battery almost dead, thanks for the esotwric 140+ iq discussions
22:01 < Moon_Rabbit> That was just the first Japanese OS they killed they did it again with mobile in the mid-late 2000s although Apple was also involved the second go around
22:02 < Moon_Rabbit> take care
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22:03 < fishmongler> this might be the thing i heard about. this was a purwly political decision, the japanese were just not allowed to make their own x86 kernel
22:04 < Moon_Rabbit> It probably is. At first they demanded that it support DOS software. They made it do that in like 2 weeks so then they lobbied US Congress to start a trade war and thus PC-98 was born.
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 07 00:00:43 2025