--- Log opened Fri Mar 07 00:00:43 2025
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00:33 < dkeav> @mlb chc
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00:33 < dkeav> bah
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00:39 < Moon_Rabbit> before I make a bug report is there any obvious thing I should check that would cause my touchpad to stop working on my thinkpad after suspend? The trackpoint and buttons continued to work just the touchpad was not responding. It has only happened once usually it resumes just fine. I'll try to reproduce it. I didn't notice at first because I rarely use it anyway
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01:03 < frodo> Is there anywhere I can find whether a certain ARM board (pinebook pro for example) has 3d acceleration support in 7.6?
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01:08 < Bradipo> Moon_Rabbit: I always disable touchpad in the kernel.
01:09 < Bradipo> Too messy.
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03:13 < ssm_> putting a finger on my touchpad and not moving it (or moving it) causes a cpu core to spike to 60 usage. moving my usb mouse in circles does not cause any noticable increase in cpu usage.
03:13 < ssm_> can anyone replicate (or not replicate)?
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03:27 < oldlaptop> what kind of touchpad? (dmesg will say)
03:28 < oldlaptop> pms(4) versus ihidev(4), at least (there are also four or five different flavors of pms(4) touchpad)
03:32 < bradd> +
03:32 < bradd> oops sorry
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05:33 < echelon> hi, it takes like 30 minutes for my system to boot, it's an 8th gen intel i5
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05:38 < mischief> go on
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06:00 < echelon> sorry, got distracted
06:00 < echelon> well, that's basically it, i dunno what could be the cause
06:00 < echelon> just doing pkg_add htop took me 30min as well
06:01 < echelon> maybe longer
06:01 < echelon> something with the device causing interrupts?
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06:09 < echelon> it could be the power supply
06:09 < echelon> they're not stock
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06:11 < echelon> also, could be in need of a bios update
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06:23 < adig> Did some stuff change in httpd httpd/fastcgi recently? (Not sure how recently, I just upgrade from 7.3 to  7.6 tbh)
06:23 < adig> I think $SCRIPT_FILENAME would give just the filename before.
06:23 < adig> Now it gives the full path?
06:23 < adig> Or there are some problems with my config.
06:24 < adig> My cgi scripts started acting differently after the upgrade.
06:24 < adig> Go http server gives only the filename in $SCRIPT_FILENAME.
06:24 < adig> I think openbsd httpd gives the full path.
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06:50 < IcePic> echelon: there has to be able to exist more info than that, at which point is it stuck, for instance. That feels like a valid part of info that could help pinpoint it
06:51 < IcePic> like "is it stuck on bios memory tests" is quite different than "stuck at reordering ilbraries at the end of rc boot script"
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06:59 < mischief> if it took 30 minutes you probably have a lot of time to run ktrace and get a record of what's happening
06:59 < mischief> or look at say, systat or top if you think it's interrupts or something kernel side
07:01 < IcePic> mischief: depends on if it is in bios, kernel device probing or after the kernel started running programs
07:02 < mischief> > echelon │ just doing pkg_add htop took me 30min as well
07:02 < mischief> i mean _maybe_ bios update related but that seems like a long shot
07:17 < echelon> IcePic: it passes the bios memory tests just fine
07:19 < echelon> it really slows down around reordering/relinking of kernel
07:19 < echelon> but it doesn't stay permanently stuck
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07:22 < mischief> disk or interrupt problems maybe
07:23 < echelon> could it be cpu power saving?
07:24 < mischief> even with the lowest frequency on common desktop cpus, installing htop shouldn't take 30 minutes
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07:25 < mischief> package install is basically 1. run perl 2. tar xvf
07:25 < mischief> and tar is a few hundred k maybe..
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07:25 < mischief> er. htop
07:25 < TommyC> Maybe they're running a Pentium II.
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07:27 < mischief> does openbsd even support that any more? isn't that i586?
07:27 < echelon> it's 8th gen i5
07:29 < mischief> did you check systat/top
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07:30 < mischief> in other off topic news here's my new uConsole, next to my work P14s and my m5stack cardputer running a gameboy emulator https://i.imgur.com/f3xLe53.jpeg
07:30 < mischief> i tried the openbsd arm64 image the other day on the uConsole, but it didn't get too far
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07:31 < echelon> very nice, i'm still waiting on mine
07:31 < echelon> how long did you have to wait on preorder
07:32 < mischief> for uConsole?
07:35 < echelon> yes
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07:52 < mischief> echelon: i ordered june 5 2024
07:52 < mischief> got it last week.
07:53 < echelon> wow
07:53 < echelon> i guess there's no luck for me
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07:58 < IcePic> systat vm 1 <- shows if there are weird interrupt storms 
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08:33 < echelon> IcePic: omg, i just did a bios update, and it was the difference between night and day
08:34 < echelon> i wonder what the heck was wrong with the original bios
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08:48 < IcePic> echelon: probably a lot of things
08:48 < IcePic> some stuff are like beta-releases when the boxes first ship
08:49 < IcePic> also, for 5-10 year old computers, getting a lot of the intel/amd meltdown/spectre-fixes in makes computer lots faster too, since kernel doesn't have to make expensive flushes all the time to work around the bad inter-process bugs that was found
08:50 < fanbass> oldlaptop, if I do not want to use xenodm. How to start X? I want to use startx
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13:16 < oldlaptop> fanbass: Not sure why you'd highlight me out of the blue. startx is there, but it has some problems, and only works for drm(4) hardware.
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14:31 < fanbass> oldlaptop, I am already a problem question 
14:31 < oldlaptop> What a strange career choice.
14:32 < fanbass> You reply The recommended way to run X is with the xenodm display manager. It offers some important security benefits over the traditional startx command. 
14:33 < fanbass> but I do not want use xenodm
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14:36 < fanbass> I configure stat X with xenodm - it is reale work
14:37 < fanbass> :)
14:37 < IcePic> yes, that is the best option for X11 on openbsd
14:37 < IcePic> it also has certain benefits in case x11 should crash for any reason, dropping back to a logged in shell is probably not the best
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14:39 < fanbass> I agree
14:39 < fanbass> but I want have choice
14:40 < brynet> who's stopping you
14:41 < brynet> startx works fine, if you have a graphics card with working drm kernel modesetting.
14:41 < fanbass> I do not know, how start X without xenodm
14:42 < brynet> :\
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14:43 < fanbass> in file .xinitrc: exec startxfce4
14:44 < fanbass> but startx do not work
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14:49 < fanbass> (ЕЕ) no screens found (EE)
14:50 < brynet> < brynet> startx works fine, if you have a graphics card with working drm kernel modesetting.
14:50 < brynet> so use xenodm.
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14:50 < brynet> startx doesn't work as an unpriv user for pre-KMS graphics devices.
14:51 < fanbass> brynet, in linux startx is work
14:51 < brynet> this is #openbsd.
14:52 < fanbass> How to know what my card support drm?
14:52 < zelest> what card is it?
14:55 < fanbass>  graphics card with working drm kernel modesetting.
14:56 < brynet> until you provide logs, at least least a dmesg, then we can only assume that isn't the case.
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15:00 < fanbass> I am sorry. I forgot to mention that I'm running Openbsd in virtualbox.
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15:09 < sibiria> if the question of choice you're asking for is that you don't want openbsd to immediately greet you with xenodm, then you can disable it or just switch to console 1-4 after booting and just let xenodm wait for you when you want it
15:09 < sibiria> it doesn't "hurt" that it's waiting on console 5. you can simply switch away from that
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15:14 < fanbass> You must admit that this is not very correct
15:15 < sibiria> which part? you have the choice of not running xenodm
15:15 < sibiria> xenodm (as opposed to startx) provides you a better outset
15:17 < sibiria> rcctl disable xenodm; alias startxlol='doas rcctl -f start xenodm'
15:20 < sibiria> if you choose openbsd for its specific way of doing things, and accept those ways, i don't see why you can't accept its specific integration of X as well
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15:21 < fanbass> It is writenn in FAQ OpenBSD. May be it is realy, but I do not want to check it
15:21 < fanbass> I find in internet
15:22 < fanbass> if you choose openbsd for its specific way of doing things, and accept those ways, i don't see why you can't accept its specific integration of X as well
15:22 < fanbass> I thought X didn't need to run as root on OpenBSD. X doesn't run as root on Linux these days. Of course it's because more stuff has been put into the kernel, but I wouldn't have expected OpenBSD to still be running X as root.
15:23 < IcePic> X needs root while starting, if you want any kind of acceleration
15:23 < fanbass> I didn't think that in Openbsd it is problem
15:23 < IcePic> so for a while it does, then it drops to running as the user _x11
15:23 < sibiria> it doesn't run as root. it drops its privielegs
15:23 < sibiria> privileges*
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15:29 < fanbass> I don't know the details. xenodm runs as root, spawns Xorg. Xorg is started as root (I think) but drops to a _x11 user after starting an X process as root, so there's some degree of privilege separation happening there.
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15:34 < fanbass> I think The  workaround for those who want autostart X without the overhead of xenodm while accepting the security risks involved, is to set Xorg setuid: chmod +s /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg. Then startx will work as expected. But /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg do not exist
15:35 < sibiria> i don't think it's much of an overhead worth discussing
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15:41 < fanbass> Именно так обычно реагирует служба поддержки Mac os. ;-)
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15:41 < fanbass> This is how Mac os support usually responds.
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15:43 < fanbass> I don't think it needed to be broken for the sake of mythical security.
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15:44 < sibiria> the executable doesn't busy-wait. it's some 150kb in size. pulls in about the same dynamic libs X.org and window manager itself pulls in. it's not a large product
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15:45 < IcePic> fanbass: whas is "it" in that sentence?
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15:47 < fanbass> IcePic, the traditional and understandable way to launch X
15:48 < fanbass> "startx"
15:48 < IcePic> fanbass: that seems like a value statement rather than a fact
15:48 < pardis> if you want to choose to use startx, you can indeed make the binary setuid as you mentioned
15:48 < pardis> but there's no need to pretend that's anything other than your choice
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15:49 < IcePic> I grew up on SunOS and Solaris, and xdm-like logins were certainly the norm for graphical unix workstations since early 90s
15:50 < pardis> sounds impossible to understand to me
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15:59 < sibiria> xdm has been around for some 40 years
16:00 < sibiria> wayland's recommended setup is to use a display manager, too
16:01 < sibiria> startx is so "it's 1999 and i just installed slackware and xfree86"
16:01 < fanbass> IcePic, I grew up on FreeBSD and Slackware. I aways use startx. In Slackware it I use now
16:02 < fanbass> It's my habit.
16:02 < IcePic> fanbass: sure, but what says slackware is the main design of unix?
16:02 < IcePic> it could just be "a badly integraded installation for graphics"
16:02 < IcePic> integrated*
16:03 < sibiria> in-degraded
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16:04 < IcePic> and what sibiria said about 1999, but with "I also need to parse huge X.log files and handedit config files before it works"
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16:21 < quinq> wow
16:21 < quinq> doas sysupgrade
16:21 < quinq> Fetching from https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.7/amd64/
16:21 < quinq> sysupgrade: Error retrieving https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.7/amd64/SHA256.sig: 404 Not Found
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16:21 < quinq> I'm on -stable
16:22 < quinq> Sorry for the noise, I just mix sysupgrade and syspatch -_-
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16:23 < quinq> Hummm, I can't restart httpd
16:23 < quinq> $ doas rcctl restart httpd
16:23 < quinq> (failed)
16:25 < sibiria> httpd -n
16:26 < quinq> Yeah, it seems it's running without issue :/
16:26 < quinq> Oh my.
16:26 < sibiria> rcctl stop it. kill process. delete pid file
16:26 < quinq> Maybe I should leave the computer for today
16:27 < quinq> It was running and old conf version for some reason, and the problem were not today's changes, but some older un-reloaded ones
16:27 < quinq> Thank you sibiria :)
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16:38 < joe9> now that firefox has joined the evil bunch, what is a reasonable alternative that OpenBSD folks like?
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16:45 < WhyNotHugo> librewolf is "unmozilla'd firefox", but no port yet
16:47 < sibiria> louis rossman (youtube) had a few interesting things to say about mozilla's changes in their terms of use
16:47 < sibiria> rossmann*
17:09 < fanbass> joe9, polemoon
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17:15 < fanbass> sibiria, louis rossman (youtube) had a few interesting things to say about mozilla's changes in their terms of use
17:16 < fanbass> If the user does not pay for the product, then the user becomes the product himself.
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17:18 < seninha> joe9, i use dillo for everything but the few exceptions for “webapps” that are so bloat that neither firefox render them correctly and the only option is (ungoogled-)chromium
17:20 < seninha> I want to write separate chromium profiles with prefilled/hardcoded cookies for each of those “webapps” (basically aliexpress and amazon).
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17:25 < sibiria> i sort of emulate the same, but by having a few accepted cookies in normal mode, and using incognito mode for all other browsing
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17:26 < sibiria> browser set to default to incognito on start, and i open a regular window when i need "dirty mode" with saved login cookies and whatnot
17:29 < seninha> sibiria, you can also call chromium with --app to disable (kinda) tabs and hide the URL bar, so chromium turns into an actual windowed GUI application (just as how modern GUI is supposed to be)
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17:30 < seninha> It even makes the favicon into the window icon (if your WM supports it)
17:30 < seninha> sibiria, how do you set the cookies? do you use an extension for that?
17:31 < sibiria> seninha: no, i just let the remote set them as per normal behavior
17:32 < sibiria> i only browse a select few sites as non-incog. though i run it in strict mode and with uBlock origin as usual
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17:32 < seninha> I see. Thanks.
17:33 < seninha> Vanilla chromium has no way to manually define cookies, i think.
17:34 < seninha> So the way you do is the only one.
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17:59 < fanbass> Since January 2025, Google has banned the use of its search engine if JavaScript is disabled in the browser.
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18:00 < fanbass> yandex too
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18:02 < fanbass> dillo can't even use the search
18:02 < fanbass> :-(
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18:10 < jmcunx> FWIW, I find this seems OK for lynx and dillo - lite.duckduckgo.com
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18:21 < fanbass> jmcunx, yes. I know. But duckduck very bad search 
18:21 < fanbass> Russuian sites
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18:33 < jmcunx> did not know that
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18:46 < deimosBSD> is there place where adding vga to vmd/vmm is discussed?
18:46 < deimosBSD> or am i not on the correct mailing list to see this
18:48 < fanbass> deimosBSD, Yuo are on channel about OpenBSD
18:49 < deimosBSD> indeed
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18:56 < uwharrie> if there was such a discussion, it'd like be on tech@
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18:58 < deimosBSD> that's what I figured, but in perusing the archives, I didn't see any discussion about it yet, nor do I have a patch yet. I'll just post to misc and see who else may be interested
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19:18 < uwharrie> it gets asked about from time to time, but yeah, no patch, no real further discussion
19:23 < anelli> hi frends. i'm tryna make a perl script with minimal dependencies via openbsd perl libs. when i run corelist -v $myperlver it gives me a list different than the one i see in /usr/local/libdata/perl5/site_perl? sorry i'm new to perl so it's a lil confusing. does openbsd ship a subset of the core modules? if so is there a good way to list it? thx
19:26 < uwharrie> /usr/local/ is for packages, not the base system
19:27 < echelon> if i want to port forward ports from a vmm vm, i would just use pf?
19:28 < anelli> uwharrie: oh sorry my bad
19:28 < anelli> lemme check again
19:29 < anelli> uwharrie: that solved it thx a lot
19:29 < uwharrie> and if you look at `perl -V`, you'll see the libs shipped with the base system are in /usr/libdata/perl5
19:30 < anelli> useful command thx
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19:39 < anelli> uwharrie: btw any suggestions for ssl/tls? i got p5-IO-Socket-SSL from ports but wondering if there's a native way. i can see pkg_add and co use ftp. i just need something more lowlevel like opening a socket and speaking then closing it for an irc bot
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19:40 < anelli> maybe make script talk to netcat?
19:44 < sibiria> echelon: yes
19:44 < echelon> thanks
19:44 < sibiria> anelli: maybe you can wrangle it with openssl s_client? afaik there's no other native way
19:44 < sibiria> socat can do it, but not part of base
19:45 < sibiria> and as you point out, IO::Socket::SSL still not part of perl's standard modules
19:45 < anelli> yea
19:45 < anelli> sibiria: nc(1) wouldn't work?
19:46 < sibiria> i'm not sure openbsd netcat can forward traffic that way, like the linux nc can. but i honestly never looked into it
19:46 < anelli> fairs
19:47 < sibiria> with linux nc you can do the listen+forward trick to bridge and to act as "stunnel"
19:48 < anelli> yeah i heared a bit about it
19:48 < uwharrie> could maybe try something with your own XS binding to libtls, but that would likely be a bigger project than an IRC bot
19:48 < anelli> yeaa xD
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19:49 < anelli> i chose perl cause of the nice regexes. dw grammar is strict
19:49 < anelli> or parsing i meant
19:50 < anelli> openssl it is for now methinks. thx frens
19:50 < sibiria> and the Lord said, "Thou Shalt Always Programme In Perl() or die();"
19:50 < anelli> lmaooo true!
19:50 < anelli> i love perl
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20:13 < echelon> i get this when try to load slackware into vmm.. intel_pstate: CPU model not supported
20:13 < echelon> i*
20:13 < echelon> what cpu model does the vmm present?
20:14 < IcePic> isnt it "the one you run on" with some features removed?
20:14 < echelon> ok
20:15 < echelon> so is it vmm that doesn't support it? because i was able to run debian
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20:41 < echelon> but this is great, i can run containers in openbsd.. technically :S
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20:54 < oldlaptop> joe9: https://openports.pl/path/www/seamonkey is more or less the old Mozilla suite, still sorta working. (Much like thunderbird, the project got kicked out of "mozilla" proper some years ago. The web engine is more or less the same as the "palemoon" family of firefox forks - palemoon itself is a blatantly hostile upstream and will therefore presumably never be packaged)
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21:08 < oldlaptop> <anelli> i chose perl cause of the nice regexes. dw grammar is strict
21:08 < oldlaptop> I'd rather have a non-perl regex engine, given the choice. It's sort of like (POSIX) sh versus bash: once you're actually using the wicked nonregular perl extensions, you're probably doing something that shouldn't be a regex.
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21:09 < oldlaptop> (The implementations in libc and Tcl/postgres are pretty groovy, to boot. Although maintenance thereof has been a slight source of drama, at least in the latter case)
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23:07 < echelon> in the rdr-to and nato-to combination example, are $int_if and $int_net supposed to be user-defined?
23:07 < echelon> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/rdr.html#rdrnat
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23:36 -!- fro [fro@humpty.dance] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 08 00:00:08 2025