--- Log opened Thu Mar 20 00:00:06 2025
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01:10 < Moon_Rabbit> yay I finally got mail working again
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01:15 < tux0r> hooray! how did you break it?
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01:16 < Moon_Rabbit> google broke it
01:18 < Moon_Rabbit> I need to move those accounts but I keep putting it off but the 2fa stuff is kind of forcing me to get proactive
01:19 < tux0r> i see
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01:19 < Moon_Rabbit> they require app passwords nonsense now for "less secure" applications
01:20 < tux0r> every time i hear something about google, i'm glad that i deleted my google accounts ages ago
01:20 < Moon_Rabbit> I know it's old news but I've been away for 2 years
01:20 < tux0r> thanks for that
01:20 < Moon_Rabbit> I have eliminated all of my accounts with major providers other than those. But I have 28 gmail accounts tied to other stuff that I never get around to moving to someplace else
01:21 < tux0r> 28! why in <your preferred higher being>'s name?
01:21 < tux0r> i mean, i tend to make a new alias for every website i register on, but still..
01:22 < Moon_Rabbit> I made a different account for different mailing lists and other things like forums and if I change the emails to some of that stuff it'll lose my legacy status and require 2fa. Which I can't do because I don't own a sim card.
01:24 < tux0r> 2fa was amazing. instead of hacking passwords, all you need to have is access to one 2fa device now.
01:24 < tux0r> *sigh*
01:24 < Moon_Rabbit> They're just moving people over to it until they bring in the 2fa DNA auth
01:24 < Moon_Rabbit> then we can access everything by cutting off a finger or drawing some blood!
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01:25 < tux0r> wait for elon's 2fa brain chip
01:25 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm pretty sure they're going with the palm print/finger print
01:25 < Moon_Rabbit> this reminds me Zuckerberg still legally owes me that CD-R I requested 12 years ago
01:26 < tux0r> that's not secure, your finger prints are stored in an undisclosed number of databases, which means that the whole darknet already has a copy
01:26 < tux0r> including me.
01:26 < Moon_Rabbit> Have you seen the new palm print payment POS thing they're rolling out?
01:27 < tux0r> i am glad (again) to never even have heard of that up to this point
01:27 < Moon_Rabbit> https://amazonone.aws.com/
01:28 < Moon_Rabbit> they put it in a store here my friends works at and the bible people are freaked out about it being the mark
01:29 < tux0r> ah. must be a non-german thing. lucky us.
01:30 < Moon_Rabbit> We have a cashless contactless store here now
01:30 < Moon_Rabbit> you walk in and grab items and when you walk back out it automatically debits your bank account or credit card
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01:31 < tux0r> sounds like something that's incredibly easy to exploit
01:31 < Moon_Rabbit> I haven't looked closely enough but yes I imagine it's easy to rob the place
01:32 < tux0r> hmm
01:32 < tux0r> i consider a trip.
01:32 < Moon_Rabbit> I had to stop attending a bunch of events and can't go to big stadiums anymore because they won't even accept cash at all. For tickets or concessions.
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01:35 < Moon_Rabbit> I'm trying to figure out a way out of the country before it gets much worse. But I'm currently stateless and all forms of travel are now offlimits. I'm considering jumping the border into Mexico and seeing if I can pay someone there to take me to a real country :)
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01:36 < tux0r> i see. i wonder whether they actually let you OUT, now that it's hard to get IN.
01:36 < Moon_Rabbit> I asked several times and they basically said no you can't leave.
01:37 < tux0r> awesome.
01:37 < Moon_Rabbit> I've been trying to prove my father was a citizen for the last several years but I don't have his birth cert. and they won't accept any of the other documents I have from his safe. I'm stuck in this loop where I need document A for document B and doc b for doc a
01:38 < Moon_Rabbit> I looked at booking passage on a container ship and even they demanded a passport
01:38 < tux0r> heh. this you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4StpMBjMmlY
01:38 < Moon_Rabbit> Nah I don't use social media
01:39 < Moon_Rabbit> My next move is probably traveling over a thousand miles to the embassy of my mother's country and trying to claim asylum
01:40 < Moon_Rabbit> wow I forgot this movie existed thanks I'm going to watch it tonight
01:41 < tux0r> :) you're welcome
01:41 < tux0r> always entertaining, even after many years
01:41 < Moon_Rabbit> Yes this is pretty accurate
01:42 < Moon_Rabbit> A few months ago I waited in line at the DMV for hours just to be told to go to the social security office which wanted a form from the DMV which wanted a form from SS
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01:43 < anelli> ah, governmental beaurecracy. my favouirte
01:43 < Moon_Rabbit> What I'm trying to figure out is how come I don't exist when I attended their schools for 12 years and somehow got a valid driver's license 
01:44 < anelli> skill issue. jk who knows maybe you're bobby tables
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01:44 < anelli> https://xkcd.com/327/
01:44 < Moon_Rabbit> I got the reference ;)
01:44 < anelli> hehe 
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01:46 < Moon_Rabbit> ah I wish the women looked as good at the DMV as the girl in window 2
01:49 < anelli> idk what a dmv is but rip
01:49 < Moon_Rabbit> DMV is this horrible place filled with angry people waiting for forms from enraged people that don't want to be there. It's truly the 5th level of hell.
01:50 < Moon_Rabbit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz1hZIOj8SY
01:53 < anelli> lmaoo 
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01:57 < anelli> at least they dress nice. our gov ppl look like customers lol
01:57 < Moon_Rabbit> I assure you they aren't dressed anywhere near that nice IRL lol
01:58 < anelli> lol fair
01:59 < Moon_Rabbit> Imagine a bunch of very overweight sassy black women and old cranky white men dressed in cheap polyester button up shirts that look like they could explode at any moment. 
01:59 < Moon_Rabbit> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryLNGezWliM lol
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02:00 < anelli> sounds about right
02:02 < Moon_Rabbit> good scam they were running. People are willing to pay $250 to skip the line at the DMV for sure.
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02:04 < anelli> bike users not havng to wait in line be like
02:04 < Moon_Rabbit> Depends on the bike
02:04 < anelli> o wdym
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02:05 < Moon_Rabbit> A few years ago in the state I'm in they classified anything with an engine as requiring registration+yearly tax so all the kids with motorized bikes and 50cc scooters are now required to go like everyone else.
02:05 < Moon_Rabbit> You know those little kits you can put on a pedal bike? That's $200 a year plus tags, plus registration plus yearly tax now.
02:06 < anelli> o that sad
02:06 < Moon_Rabbit> They claimed they did it because of the drunks. Everyone they caught driving DUI was buying those 50cc scooters so they'd have a way to get around and buy food.
02:07 < Moon_Rabbit> I understand why it was much cheaper than doing everything they require to get your license back. It costs about $10k all-in to legally get it back if they claim you were DUI and arrest you for it.
02:07 < Moon_Rabbit> they also tear up your car to put the thing in it you have to blow in and charge a monthly fee+install fee for it. They tear apart your dashboard when they do it. 
02:09 < Moon_Rabbit> we have no public transport so you're basically screwed if you have a job/family but no car. We don't even have a bus.
02:09 < phy1729> Moon_Rabbit, anelli: wildly off topic. Take it elsewhere.
02:10 < Moon_Rabbit> The conversation would have naturally died the moment someone came along and needed help or someone stopped replying. People are way too uptight now a days.
02:10 < phy1729> That's not how this channel works. Please stick to OpenBSD.
02:10 < Moon_Rabbit> bleh
02:11 < anelli> phy1729: will do. sorry
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03:59  * ssm_ sticks to openbsd (puffy). puffy inflates and ssm_ gets stung and dies of tetrodotoxin
04:04 < thrig> fugu smoothie
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05:23 < caze`> fugu raised in captivity aren't poisonous at all.
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05:34 < mischief> hey, that's my gateway's hostname :-)
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14:02 < WhyNotHugo> can httpd redirect requests for a single domain to a server listning on a unix domain socket?
14:02 < WhyNotHugo> The server is xandikos, it listens on a plain socket, not fastcgi.
14:03 < IcePic> worst case, have a socat pipe between network socket and unix domain socket?
14:04 < WhyNotHugo> IcePic: was that meant for me? i don't see how to forward requests to a socket either
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14:05 < mischief> no, httpd does fcgi. if you want http, try relayd.
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14:06 < WhyNotHugo> i feared that migth be the answer. I have like a dozen diffrent domains already in httpd, i guess I have to do relayd->httpd for all of them?
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14:17 < mischief> perhaps not with the right rules
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14:43 < rcf> WhyNotHugo: neither httpd nor relayd support sockets. 
14:50 < bleb> have there been any efforts to get openbsd to compile with a simpler C compiler like pcc?
14:52 < rcf> bleb: a very long time ago, it was imported into the source tree, and managed to build a kernel. 
14:53 < IcePic> bleb: yes, some effort for TendraC IIRC, and pcc later on
14:53 < IcePic> at least at the time, limited arch support was a major issue
14:54 < IcePic> but pcc was, as rcf said, close to being useful for quicker roundtrip times for developers
14:55 < IcePic> even if it would only be 90% performant in terms of code output quality, it would still allow you to rebuild a kernel lots lots quicker than with gcc and boot into it and make sure it works. As long as the code was correctly generated, it would still be useful
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14:57 < bleb> is there anywhere I could read about these efforts?
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14:59 < IcePic> tech@ maillist, around 2011 seem to have some info, https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&w=2&r=1&s=pcc&q=b
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15:00 < IcePic> guess it started around here: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=118979012808419&w=2
15:03 < bleb> ty ty
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15:06 < rcf> bleb: in the case of pcc, the end result was that the original developers lost interest, nobody else really stepped up to get it working well for the entire base system, and the project is basically dead. Or literally dead, apparently; the website is down. 
15:11 < bleb> yeah I see
15:11 < bleb> it's still in the debian repos
15:12 < pardis> recent work has tended to be in the opposite direction (reducing the OpenBSD diff for Linux-sourced code to make updating it easier)
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15:13 < pardis> for most users, having good modern integrated graphics support is more worthwhile than shorter kernel compilation times
15:13 < thrig> too big diffs is why sqlite got booted from base
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15:14 < bleb> pardis: does openbsd periodically import linux-sourced code for graphics support?
15:14 < pardis> yes
15:14 < bleb> from x11?
15:15 < pardis> no, from Linux
15:15 < oldlaptop> (Those parts retained the X11 license when the drivers moved into kernel-space. Surprisingly, really.)
15:15 < pardis> and also from X.org, but you were talking about the kernel specifically
15:15 < bleb> interesting
15:16 < pardis> oldlaptop: I suspect the companies behind them wanted to be able to use improvements in their proprietary drivers for other OSes
15:16 < bleb> are there any other parts of the linux kernel tree that aren't gpl?
15:17 < oldlaptop> AMD certainly is rumored/thought/maybe-even-confirmed to have more or less the same codebase across OSes, including amdgpu
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15:17 < oldlaptop> but they hold the copyright to the stuff they write, and so could still have GPL-ed it if they really wanted to
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15:18 < oldlaptop> (of course you then have to wonder why they'd really want to)
15:18 < pardis> but they would then not be allowed to use any improvements contributed by the Linux kernel community in their original codebase
15:19 < pardis> without GPLing their Windows drivers too, I mean
15:20 < oldlaptop> Yeah. I suppose they could ask nicely for sublicensing rights or whatever, but again why would they want to bother (and why would anyone say yes)
15:21 < oldlaptop> Maybe contrawise - how concerning would it really be to them to GPL the windows driver anyway?
15:22 < oldlaptop> given that they're willing to have so much of their driver codebase under BSDoid licenses (whether in kernel-space in amdgpu, or in userland in llvm)
15:22 < bleb> <pardis> recent work has tended to be in the opposite direction (reducing the OpenBSD diff for Linux-sourced code to make updating it easier)
15:22 < oldlaptop> unless they're known/suspected not to use the llvm (and/or other userland bits) on windows?
15:22 < bleb> pardis: is the diff largely due to differences between clang and gcc?
15:23 < bleb> I don't quite understand why it would be the "opposite direction" from compiling with pcc
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15:25 < pardis> because Linux doesn't target pcc, so one would generally need to make the diff larger to support a new compiler
15:25 < bleb> clang though?
15:25 < bleb> does linux target clang?
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15:25 < oldlaptop> historically anything other than gcc needed that compiler vendor to sink effort in to it to compile linux
15:27 < bleb> but like importing linux code to openbsd already requires work to get it compiling with clang
15:28 < bleb> intuitively it seems like much of that work would also apply to pcc
15:28 < bleb> maybe I'm wrong, does clang try to support a lot of gcc features?
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15:30  * oldlaptop would tend to think offhand that the code in question is not the most intensely compiler-extension-dependent stuff in the linux tree
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15:32 < thrig> gforth uses a lot of compiler tricks and for a while was a) failing to compile b) had the compiler running at 100% cpu for who knows how long
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15:36 < IcePic> bleb: clang does accept a lot of gcc-only flags, even if it perhaps just skips most of them
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16:34 < vortexx> I'm migrating from VDSL to FTTH tomorrow, and this requires using a PPPoE on top of a VLAN on top of the network interface. I've not done this before and would like to confirm that this hostname.vlan11 will work please?
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16:34 < vortexx> parent em2 vnetid 11
16:34 < vortexx> up
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17:16 < BasketCase> vortexx: that will give you an unconfigured interface named vlan11 with the parent interface of em2 and tagged as vlan ID 11 which I am pretty sure is what you said you need
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17:45 < vortexx> BasketCase: thanks
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18:02 < tobiasu> pcc is a horrible 80s code base that's no fun at all to work with
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18:16 < bleb> compared to clang and gcc though?
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18:20 < pardis> clang and gcc don't need to be worked with because they are maintained by other people
18:21 < bleb> almost everyone is another person
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18:22 < pardis> and zero people out of almost everyone are maintaining pcc
18:23 < tobiasu> that's a lot of zeros :D
18:23 < bleb> I mean there's the debian packager
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18:25 < bleb> although that doesn't contradict your statement
18:28 < tobiasu> what's the goal anyway? to build openbsd without any crazy compiler bootstrapping it needs to be at least a halfway competent c++ compiler
18:29 < tobiasu> enough to compile either clang/llvm or gcc
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19:24 < echelon> hi
19:24 < echelon> i have this rule in pf: pass in on egress proto tcp from any to any port 1080 rdr-to $vm_ip port 1080
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19:24 < echelon> but i can't reach the port on localhost
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19:28 < ssm_> default pf.conf should has `set skip on lo0`, so you should be able to reach any port if you use the defaults
19:30 < echelon> hrm
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19:30 < vortexx> tobiasu: late 70s for pcc code base iirc. It was looked at by the devs some 12-13 years ago and concluded that llvm was going to be better.
19:31 < vortexx> (and they deliberately kept all the debate about it off tech@ cos too many people of my skill level were paying too much attention
19:31 < vortexx> )
19:31 < thrig> bike shedding!
19:32 < sibiria> echelon: is $vm_ip even on the loopback interface?
19:33 < sibiria> sounds more like it's in 100.64.0.0/10, which vmd uses
19:34 < pardis> that rule isn't expected to do anything to loopback traffic for several reasons
19:34 < echelon> sibiria: it's a vmm ip
19:35 < echelon> and it is 100.64.0.0/10
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19:36 < pardis> there are at least two hosts involved here
19:37 < pardis> are you trying to access that port on localhost from the host and wanting it to reach the guest somehow? and if so, why are you expecting that to work?
19:37 < pardis> or are you trying to access localhost from within the guest and finding you have nothing listening?
19:37 < echelon> yes, the latter
19:38 < pardis> in that case the pf rule isn't relevant
19:38 < pardis> if you have nothing listening on that port and you want something to listen on that port, you need to configure a daemon to listen on that port
19:38 < echelon> i've been ssh tunneling the port -L1080:LAN_IP:1080, and it doesn't work
19:39 < echelon> so i guess i can do -L1080:vm_ip:1080
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20:00 < pardis> that won't do anything if nothing is listening on the port you want to connect to in the first place
20:01 < bleb> tobiasu: ah I didn't realize openbsd has c++
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20:02 < bleb> having a faster compiler for easier development is a nice benefit
20:02 < bleb> but to me the goal is for the system to be more auditable
20:03 < bleb> and thus more trustworthy
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21:18 < nacelle> https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Minecraft-Hands-Featuring-Drowned/dp/B08HW1HWD5 a lego suit that includes a yellow blowfish... 
21:18 < nacelle> s/suit/set/
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22:15 < seninha> Hi, I want to use ssh-agent to hold keys per-tty and for a short time, just like how doas(1) does. My idea is to invoke ssh-agent(1) from ~/.kshrc (rather than from xenodm session config), but that may fill /tmp with socket files, most of which would never be used. What is the best way (if any) to do that?
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22:23 < seninha> I think gpg-agent can work as a ssh agent and supports per-TTY authentication, but i dont want to install another package if i could do that on a base system
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23:32 < anelli> iirc gpg doesn't isolate access to specific ttys
23:33 < anelli> i just do gpg-update-tty and it carries over the creds to that one without having to re-enter the passphrase
23:33 < anelli> sdds: i'm assuming you're doing this for security's sake. otherwise this might be an xy problem
23:34 < anelli> sorry wrong mention. meant seninha 
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 21 00:00:07 2025