--- Log opened Thu Apr 03 00:00:26 2025
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02:01 < oxbar> Can I install rdp on openbsd and conect via Remote Desktop ?
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09:08 < anthk_> freerdp/rdesktop
09:09 < anthk_> ah, as a server?
09:09 < anthk_> openbsd is best managed from SSH
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10:56 < Lucas_> IcePic: I'm legitimately surprised at your patience with otto.cooper
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10:59 < IcePic> Lucas_: thanks (if meant as a compliment ;)
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11:01 < Lucas_> "amazed" would have been a better word :p
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13:35 < bountyht> Hello, people. How viable do you think it would be to have a torrent client in machine A that used an NFS share at machine B as a storage backend? The line between A and B is a known good Gigabit one and it is faster than access from A to the WAN.
13:36 < bountyht> I just don't know if NFS is good when it comes to random data access such as the one torrent clients tend to do.
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13:44 < BasketCase> bountyht: can't say I have tried it but it seems like it should work fine.  note that some clients make sparse files and fill them in while others don't.
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13:47 < bountyht> I should probably give it a try. What I concerned is the whole thing taking too much of a performance hit.
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13:58 < BasketCase> can't say I have ever had to worry about a torrent download overloading my storage bandwidth either
13:59 < IcePic> bountyht: I would certainly look at giving nfs all the perf options available
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14:01 < BasketCase> agreed but I would say that is needed for NFS in general.  I don't know anything specific to torrent storage.
14:01 < IcePic> but I think it would work, and unless you get super seeders close to you, DLing might actually still be the limit
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14:03 < BasketCase> yeah, if your torrents are overloading gigabit NFS storage, buy more local storage and throw a party!
14:03 < bountyht> IcePic: Do you have any NFS optimization idea in mind? Right now I am mounting with the standard nosuid,nodev which aren't exactly optimizers
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14:06 < IcePic> the server has very little, just start a larger number of daemons, the client has readahead settings, iosize, the nfsv3 readdir plus may or may not help torrent files, and test if udp or tcp mounts work better for torrents
14:07 < IcePic> "man nfsd" goes "     A server should run enough daemons to handle the maximum level of
14:07 < IcePic>      concurrency from its clients, typically four to six.
14:07 < IcePic> "
14:07 < IcePic>  where I gather torrent clients would do huuuge amounts of concurrency if allowed
14:07 < bountyht> Totally
14:08 < bountyht> The server is an appliance, whereas OpenBSD is the client. I don't think readahead is going to help muchh for random access, though
14:10 < bountyht> Does the openbsd nfs client still default to udb?
14:10 < bountyht> udp?
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14:11 < BasketCase> on my OpenBSD NFS client I mount with tcp,nosuid,intr,bg,rw,nosuid,nodev but I don't think I have tweaked that in >10 years so it might not be so great anymore
14:12 < BasketCase> also, my NFS is v3
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14:23 < bountyht> I am testing on TCP with a bigger readsize and writesize. Just downloading some Linux isos. Download seems fine.
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14:25 < tobiasu> iirc you have to be careful with large buffers because you may create a rw amplification
14:25 < tobiasu> it looks fast until your application (torrent client) does lots of small writes and you pay for large buffer transfers every time
14:26 < bountyht> Thanks for the advice
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14:37 < sonya> noatime, if applicable..
14:39 < bountyht> Already added.
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14:41 < bountyht> For the time being I am testing with mount_nfs -3 -a 4 -T -r 32768 -o soft,intr,noatime,nodev,noexec,nosuid
14:44 < bountyht> Well, so far it looks like seeding from NFS does not work
14:44 < bountyht> FOr whatever reason
14:44 < IcePic> can you do "normal" read/writes ?
14:45 < bountyht> I can cat a file to the terminal, if that is what you mean
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14:45 < bountyht> Downloading to the share is fine, though
14:47 < bountyht> both "echo "hello world" > test" and "cat test" work fine within the NFS share
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14:49 < IcePic> wonder if the torrent client uses mmap() which makes it unhappy over nfs
14:49 < BasketCase> oy, I didn't think of noatime at the NFS level.  It was already there on the server but I am adding it to the NFS as well.
14:50 < sibiria> if you're using rtorrent, abandon ship immediately
14:50 < bountyht> sibiria: transmission
14:50 < bountyht> IcePic: I can check that quickly :-)
14:50 < bountyht> sibiria: Why abbandon rtorrent ship if you are on it?
14:50 < IcePic> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/56593/transmission-client-cant-access-mounted-nfs-share
14:50 < bountyht> I read some issues with curl dependencies causing segfaults
14:50 < sibiria> rtorrent is broken
14:50 < sibiria> eats up all your memory
14:51 < IcePic> that post doesn't come with a fix, only that others see it too
14:51 < IcePic> (or, at least I believe the reply is not relevant)
14:52 < bountyht> IcePic: I don't think that is my issue. My client can create directories within the share and download stuff to it no problem
14:53 < bountyht> But then a peer tries to connect and fetch the linux isos from me and they are stuck at 0 transfer
14:53 < bountyht> Until I point transmission to a folder on the localhost, at which point it starts uploading immediately
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14:54 < sibiria> doesn't nfs allow for random access?
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14:55 < sibiria> bittorrent is entirely about random access for both reads and writes, at arbitrary block sizes
14:55 < bountyht> Writes work fine
14:56 < bountyht> sibiria: I think there is people running virtual machines from NFS so I guess reads should be doable
14:56 < bountyht> XD
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14:57 < bountyht> IcePic: grep -r mmap within the source code of the client reveals no direct calls to mmap
14:57 < sibiria> never heard of NFS for that, but perhaps someone went that far
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15:00 < IcePic> random access write => "dd if=/dev/zero of=./test.0 bs=1 count=1 seek=10M" should write a nice sparse file 10M large (plus one block) and be real quick if NFS likes to do "random access"
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15:01 < sibiria> i think random access and making nfs behave like a block device works in nfs4. less sure about nfs3
15:02 < bountyht> IcePic: time dd if=/dev/zero of=./test.0 bs=1 count=1 seek=10M gives 0m00.07s real     0m00.01s user     0m00.01s system
15:02 < bountyht> So yeah quick as heck
15:03 < bountyht> time dd if=./test.0  of=/dev/null bs=1 count=1 seek=10M gives 0m00.02s real     0m00.00s user     0m00.00s system
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15:04 < bountyht> I am off for coffee, I will be back soon. Feel free to keep pouring ideas meanwhile
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16:17 < bountyht> Any headless torrent client besides transmission and rtorrent worth recommending for openbsd?
16:18 < sibiria> rtorrent is really not recommended, but check if libtorrent-rasterbar is built with its test client
16:18 < sibiria> it's for terminal use
16:20 < bountyht> I basically want to check my issues are transmission-only
16:20 < bountyht> Ok
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16:41 < BasketCase> there is also the web interface version of qbittorrent but I haven't tried it myself
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16:45 < systemdsucks> aria2 is a CLI torrent client
16:45 < bountyht> systemdsucks: The name rings the bell. Can be used for seeding?
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16:46  * sonya never tested the case.. but.. in theory.. can we mount nfs share, create a file at full share size (say 2-3Tb), format in ffs and use vnconfig to mount that file as disk? and later just use that 'disk' for torrents or as we like (encrypt and so on)..
16:47 < bountyht> sonya: that is bount to be an horrible laggy experience...
16:47 < sonya> and for 'server' torrent here is 'aria2c'..
16:48 < bountyht> Ok, then I think I will give aria2 a try too
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17:10 < bountyht> FOr starters, download performance with aria2c is much much better for NFS
17:11 < bountyht> And I am registering some upload with aria2
17:11 < bountyht> Therefore it was a transmission issue for some reason
17:11 < bountyht> Now the question is why
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17:25 < sibiria> it might just be that it saves block updates and actualizes them in larger chunks
17:25 < sibiria> rather than immediately updating 16kb here, 16kb there (or however large piece size your torrent is made with)
17:28 < bountyht> sibiria: That would not explain why it does not upload
17:28 < bountyht> See, the issue is it downloads but does not upload
17:28 < bountyht> Whereas if you take things out of the NFS share it starts uploading them right way
17:28 < bountyht> away*
17:29 < sibiria> oh, i missed that detail. that is pretty curious yeah
17:33 < bountyht> In fatc operating data in the NFS share from transmission is incredibly slow despite the fact the NFS shares work ok
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17:35 < debugbsd> hi ppl
17:36 < debugbsd> anoyne here is using a Radeon 9070 xt?
17:36 < debugbsd> I would like to ask about the performance
17:39 < debugbsd> I'm going to buy a new computer (Intel i9 14k) and I thought to buy it with a Radeon 9070xt but before to bouy something I would like to know how well behaves the radeon with OpenBSD
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17:40 < mischief> drm probably doesn't support it yet
17:40 < mischief> what triple A game do you plan to play on openbsd? :-)
17:41 < debugbsd> loool, I would like to play FarCry 4/5 but I think I'm quite far from seeing Far Cry running on OpenBSD
17:42 < debugbsd> naa, I'll use it for 3D rendering with blender and computer graphics, nothing serious
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17:44 < Librecat> 7800xt works 
17:44 < Librecat> but since the card just came out it will take a few months for the drm version to get updated twice
17:44 < Librecat> does 6.12 support it or not
17:44 < Librecat> on linux side
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17:47 < debugbsd> well, thank you so much! I think, I'll buy it anyway.
17:47 < debugbsd> see you ppl!
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17:54 < Foxy_> bountyht: a good Bitorrent CLI client available on OpenBSD => aria2 https://openports.pl/path/www/aria2
17:55 < bountyht> Foxy_: that is the one I am trying so far for testing. This one is not hanging up
17:56 < bountyht> But I would really like to use a proper client for seeding isos and stuff. Aria is download oriented.
17:58 < Lucas_> transmission
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17:59 < bountyht> Lucas_: the one causing trouble
17:59 < Lucas_> yes, I managed to get the backlog now
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18:03 < Lucas_> bountyht: so, you can download but you can't seed from the NFS mount with transmission?
18:04 < bountyht> Yeah, and on top of that performing file operations from transmission on stuff within the NFS makes it unresponsive and may even crash it
18:04 < Lucas_> if it crashes it's quite good, because you get a coredump
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18:05 < bountyht> It is a pseudo-crash. The interface stops responding but the thread doesn't outright die
18:05 < bountyht> So it is worst of both worlds
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18:09 < mischief> are you sure it's not nfs breaking?
18:11 < bountyht> mischief: That was my first impulse but upen further testing it looks like NFS is fine
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18:15 < sonya> btw, doom3 + resurrection + lost mission are just fine with dhewm3 on OpenBSD..
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18:23 < Posterdati> hi
18:24 < Posterdati> please is it possible to use an openbsd box connected to an ont for ftth connectivity?
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18:27 < mischief> why not
18:27 < Posterdati> my configuration was with dhcp towards the ont
18:28 < Posterdati> now I've got a static public ip...
18:28 < Posterdati> and this config do not work anymore...
18:28 < mischief> that's unfortunate
18:29 < Posterdati> yes
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18:29 < Posterdati> it workrks for awhile and then wlan becomes unreachable
18:30 < Posterdati> they told me that my network configuration/hardware is faulty, but it worked before they changed to static public ip
18:33 < Posterdati> I cannot configure my side if they won't give me infos
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18:52 < bountyht> Hello. There was a network hiccup. Anyway, I have news regarding the NFS/transmission thing
18:52 < bountyht> /var/log/messages is full of /bsd: nfs server myserver.some.host:/path/torrents: not responding
18:53 < bountyht> And /bsd: nfs server myserver.some.host:/path/torrents: is alive again
18:53 < bountyht> So the server is going in and out at least once per minute
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19:05 < mischief> so your network sucks?
19:05 < mischief> or your torrenting is disrupting the nfs connection?
19:07 < bountyht> Nice question. I doubt it is the network. The wiring is new and none of the switches/router are particularly old
19:08 < bountyht> Probably it is the NAS appliance itself
19:08 < bountyht> So next step is testing against a proper server.
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19:14 < sibiria> bountyht: something to keep in mind is that openbsd's nfs implementation isn't 100%
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19:14 < sibiria> running strictly nfs3 on linux works out better
19:21 < mischief> i use sshfs myself (linux to linux) for "NAS"
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19:22 < sibiria> for my "NAS" i move stuff there with sftp, and access stuff with http
19:24 < mischief> only thing that sucks about ssh/sftp is the cpu overhead
19:25 < klsrqm> also sshfs is somewhat unreliable, i've had it crap out
19:25 < klsrqm> friends had prod servers suffer data loss bc of sshfs
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19:26 < sibiria> i've experienced some unreliable behavior with it as well
19:26 < sibiria> and in a purely linuxy environment at that
19:27 < klsrqm> for the time being tho i use it as well, it's pretty convenient
19:27 < klsrqm> would love to move over to nfs + zfs on freebsd
19:28 < klsrqm> (serve data stored with zfs over nfs)
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19:36 < bountyht> How good is sftp for random data access?
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19:37 < bountyht> Because the idea I have is it isn't that good :)
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19:37 < BasketCase> lol, it can "resume transfers"      sometimes
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19:38 < BasketCase> in my experience, sshfs is not one of those times
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19:40 < bountyht> Truth to be told I have checked some other NFS clients of mine that I have elsewere and none is spamming NFS warnings
19:40 < bountyht> But then they are OpenBSD clients using OpenBSD servers
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19:44 < BasketCase> my OpenBSD system that mounts a Linux server has entries like that in dmesg but it is probably due the fact that my switch died on me 2 weeks ago, was replaced 3 times, and the newest one needed some upgrade reboots.
19:44  * BasketCase hates e-caps
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19:59 < mischief> i do random io a fair bit over sshfs, though it is worse than nfs/samba for it
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20:33 < usagi_mimi> Has anyone managed to build https://github.com/jstkdng/ueberzugpp from source on -current? It fails because of multiple errors that I think are the result of clang being too old.
20:34 < usagi_mimi> error: no type named 'stop_token' in namespace 'std'
20:34 < usagi_mimi>     draw_threads.insert_or_assign(identifier, std::jthread([this, identifier](const std::stop_token &stoken) {
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20:57 < mischief> usagi_mimi: their code probably needs to set -std=C++20 or something like that.
20:58 < mischief> (openbsd clang 16 does support C++20)
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21:14 < usagi_mimi> Thanks I got it to build but the application I needed it for doesn't seem to function correctly. I think it's due to pledge/unveil but disabling them for those two applications didn't help
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21:18 < usagi_mimi> https://github.com/Benexl/yt-x  I'm trying to run this but everything I do in it just returns "invalid action". So I'm guessing pledge/unveil is getting in the way somewhere. I make the usual files under /etc/<directory> for both yt-x and fzf and put "disabled" in them but it didn't fix it.
21:19 < Lucas_> pledge and unveil are stuff that program opts-in. It isn't something system-wide.
21:19 < Lucas_> and in particular, a shell script can't pledge nor unveil.
21:19 < usagi_mimi> Ah okay I thought it was locked down by default no matter what was running
21:19 < usagi_mimi> So the issue is most likely the script itself then?
21:20 < phy1729> It _could_ but it isn't really worth doing
21:20 < Lucas_> with exec_promises?
21:21 < Lucas_> usagi_mimi: "invalid action" is a message of the script itself
21:22 < usagi_mimi> I assumed mpv was pledged and trying to invoke it from another script might be the issue but I guess not. I'll look at the script. Perhaps it's not looking in the right path
21:22 < phy1729> I think I wrote a zsh module for pledge just because. It's not terribly useful when you'll just exec anyway.
21:24 < Lucas_> phy1729: that's kinda cheating! :p
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21:39 < usagi_mimi> hmmm searching works (although it throws an error about grep) and I can even browse subs but it can't even exit its own menu without the invalid action error
21:39 < usagi_mimi> Strange that it can see firefox but not mpv
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21:46 < usagi_mimi> oh I see it's doing something with sed I bet it isn't the same on OpenBSD compared to linux
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21:53 < sonya> usagi_mimi: man clang (obsd-7.6) tells that C++20 and C++2b are supported.. though default is gnu++17..
21:54 < sonya> sorry
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22:04 < usagi_mimi> sonya: no thank you I should have checked I'm just new to using C++ on openbsd sorry
22:04 < usagi_mimi> I think I figured out why this script doesn't work. It's the difference between GNU grep and BSD grep. I'm going to have to re-write a large chunk of it
22:04 < usagi_mimi> It wants GNU grep's --invert-match/-v
22:06 < usagi_mimi> I'm discovering quickly that a lot of people don't bother to check if their scripts are truly portable 
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22:08 < sonya> usagi_mimi: you can pkg_add gsed ggrep and softlink to $PATH as sed/grep instead.. if for local use..
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22:18 < oldlaptop> usagi_mimi: https://man.openbsd.org/grep#v
22:19 < oldlaptop> which is in fact (as implied under STANDARDS) specified by POSIX and therefore portable
22:19 < oldlaptop> (the --gnu-style-version obviously is not)
22:20 < oldlaptop> (well, I suppose one has to be somewhat careful about assuming what's in POSIX is portable, but in this case it sure ought to be fine)
22:20 < oldlaptop> and POSIX isn't one of those standards for which there literally never has been and probably never will be a conforming implementation
22:21  * oldlaptop spits in the SQL "standard's" general direction
22:21 < oldlaptop> (the not-quite-conforming POSIXes are a hell of a lot closer than real sql implementations too)
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22:25 < systemdsucks> but have you tried influxdb's weird SQL?
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22:30 < usagi_mimi> I got it working thanks!
22:31 < usagi_mimi> it invokes mpv at least. I'll test the rest of its stuff later and share 
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22:39 < oldlaptop> systemdsucks: No; nor do I get the point
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22:40 < oldlaptop> There are obviously some implementations (postgres, to a somewhat lesser extent sqlite) that are a hell of a lot closer than others, but pretty much every SQL implementation has some really basic, obvious conformance holes
22:40 < oldlaptop> (partly because some corners of the standard are so silly that it would be silly to conform to them)
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22:43 < oldlaptop> in that vein, real postgres code tends to do a lot of nonstandard postgres things, because those are less silly than the more-conformant way
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22:58 < shinbet> did you heard about that latest x86 book that includes stuff on many processors assembly coding ?
22:58 < shinbet> I mean I heard a rumour on facebook than found it on google
22:58 < shinbet> seems serious stuff and I am level 0 at this stuff
22:59 < systemdsucks> oldlaptop: no point if you have not used it
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23:03 < anelli> text files were fine. idk what happened
23:04 < anelli> usagi_mimi: lots ppl preceive bash as a generic trademark
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23:04 < anelli> for unix shell 
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23:07 < tux0r> to be fair, incompatible grep versions won't be compatible in a POSIX shell
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23:17 < anelli> o i thought talk was about shell. sorry
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23:26 < oldlaptop> Yes, yes, just as you click the E to go to the Internet, you use GNU Script Explorer to write scripts.
23:26 < usagi_mimi> I actually tested it and it seems to work pretty good in sh
23:27 < anelli> nais
23:28 < usagi_mimi> If I were interested in packaging this would it be better to patch the script to change all instances of grep/sed to ggrep/gsed or should I do something to modify the PATH for just that script?
23:28 < usagi_mimi> I suppose cleaning it up to work with sed/grep would be for the best...
23:29 < oldlaptop> If the "gnu-isms" are limited to the long versions of standard short options, that's not going to be much of a problem.
23:29 < anelli> oldlaptop: gnu script explorer is emacs right? :b
23:30 < oldlaptop> emacs isn't EEE-ing an industry standard
23:30 < anelli> E
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23:31 < usagi_mimi> I think the main issue with it is that it wants --invert-match with grep. I didn't see comparable way to do it in BSD's
23:32 < usagi_mimi> I blindly changed sed to gsed I should probably see if that's an issue too
23:32 < oldlaptop> <oldlaptop> usagi_mimi: https://man.openbsd.org/grep#v
23:33 < oldlaptop> as I also said up above there, this is a standard option
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23:34 < usagi_mimi> the way it was written made me think it wasn't the same at GNU grep's -v
23:35 < oldlaptop> nearest fertilizer-coated gnu manpage to me says: -v, --invert-match: Invert the sense of matching, to select non-matching lines.
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23:36 < usagi_mimi> yeah I saw that I meant the openbsd man page doesn't mention anything about inverting I suppose I'm just too dumb to understand it
23:37 < usagi_mimi> I'll try -v instead of -invert-match to see if it'll work with standard grep+sed
23:37 < oldlaptop> The openbsd version is somewhat better writing, but they mean the same thing. (As you'd hope, given that, again, -v is specified in POSIX)
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23:40 < vortexx> when Posterdati shows up again, tell him I have such a config working, but I'm getting my static IP over PPPoE. He needs to find out if it's assigned by DHCP or if he needs a static hostname.if config
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23:40 < vortexx> (or if he has to use PPPoE)
23:41 < oldlaptop> (See https://man.bsd.lv/POSIX-2013/grep - though perhaps it's better to refer directly to the official spec than to bsd.lv's manpage versions: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/)
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23:41 < usagi_mimi> Thanks I understand now
23:41 < oldlaptop> POSIX is not one of those specs that's hopelessly impenetrable, for implementors (to loudly curse) only - it's pretty nice as reference material
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23:42 < usagi_mimi> changing it to -v fixed the searching problem but it still has other errors related to opening the video and using the menus without the GNU tools
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23:42 < usagi_mimi> I'll hack on it and nag the guy to see if I can convince him to make it more portable
23:42 < usagi_mimi> I do apperciate the help I'm learning ;)
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23:44 < oldlaptop> https://github.com/Benexl/yt-x/blob/master/yt-x ?
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23:45 < oldlaptop> There are enough reasonably-advanced shell constructs in here I'd expect the author to know the difference between POSIX sh and bash (and therefore I'd tend to believe the #! /usr/bin/env bash). On the other hand I'm not seeing any actual bashisms.
23:45 < sonya> firefox is updated to 137.. thanks..
23:46 < oldlaptop> Ah - a few kshisms, at least.
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23:47 < oldlaptop> (many bashisms are actually kshisms, of early enough vintage that even pdksh-derived ksh(1) supports them)
23:48 < oldlaptop> Still, quite strange to use bash/ksh builtins and not [[]]
23:48 < usagi_mimi> you know more than me. All I know at the moment is it works with GNU grep/sed and doesn't on OpenBSD's. I did a blind find+replace and got it going and now I'm going line by line to figure out what needs to be changed to make it work without having the GNU tools installed
23:49 < usagi_mimi> I just break stuff until it works
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23:51 < oldlaptop> I'd not expect that effort to be worth it, and if forced to guess wouldn't expect the author to care about anything outside his platform case...esac
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23:51 < usagi_mimi> If he doesn't want to change it that's fine. I'm just happy it works for me and will share it with anyone else that wants it.
23:51 < usagi_mimi> needing the browser to search youtube is a pain
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 04 00:00:27 2025