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00:29 < Bradipo> seninha: Hmm, I may have to look into mblaze.
00:29 < anelli> hi friends. anyone knows a cheap vps that supports openbsd? will use it for selfhosting email. thx
00:30 < Bradipo> Do some research to find one that doesn't have a bad reputation for spam otherwise you may find it difficult to send emails until you convince the censors that you're legitimate.
00:31 < anelli> hmm fair i'll c. thx
00:32 < pardis> openbsd.amsterdam
00:33 < anelli> pardis: i checked them first. they're 69 euro. double other typical providers
00:33 < anelli> i'd love to support obsd so might settle for it
00:33 < anelli> wish they had another cheaper plan
00:34 < anelli> i don't even reach 10gb storage lol
00:34 < pardis> I don't know what you consider typical, but €69/year is hard to beat without seriously sacrificing reliability and/or support
00:34 < pardis> it's about the same as Vultr's bottom-tier VPSes, and the support from Vultr is a lot worse than openbsd.amsterdam's
00:34 < pony> https://tilde.institute/
00:35 < anelli> like most is around 30-40 usd
00:35 < anelli> some lower
00:35 < pony> not a vps though
00:35 < anelli> oh
00:35 < anelli> that's a cool project
00:35 < pony> ya
00:36 < pardis> 30 USD/year sounds suspiciously cheap
00:37 < pardis> I don't think I've seen any providers do that, but I would strongly suspect them of overcommitting resources
00:37 < anelli> maybe. i don't have much experience
00:37 < anelli> i found hostinger at 36.99 but am not sure if there's a discount that runs out after a year
00:38 < anelli> some friend of mine somehow got 20/year lmfao. but yeah this sounds sus af
00:39 < pardis> I use Vultr for most of my VPSes, and even at $5/month they have problems with overcommitting resources
00:39 < pardis> I've both had my VPS go offline because of other customers on the same host, and had mine be shut down (probably automatically?) when I was running CPU-heavy workloads
00:40 < anelli> damn
00:41 < anelli> i mean i'm used of that with hosting at home
00:41 < anelli> euro to egp is crazy lol
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00:47 < pardis> if cost is a serious constraint, you could consider EC2 spot or reserved instances
00:48 < pardis> you'd have to do the installation yourself, but it works (I've installed OpenBSD in EC2 before)
00:49 < ssm_> seninha: I couldn't figure out how to use mblaze with mbox, even after reading the manpages
00:49 < ssm_> well, skimming the manpages; there's a lot of utilities
00:49 < seninha> ssm_, `man mblaze` for introduction
00:50 < seninha> `mshow` is the one that renders mail and extracts mimes
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00:52 < anelli> pardis: oh thx for the suggestion. oh amazon. hmmm ig i'll look into vultr
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00:54 < phy1729> GCP has a forever free tier still I think.
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00:55 < phy1729> Oracle does too, but well
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00:57 < anelli> oh i heared of oracle. is it good for email?
00:57 < anelli> must have downsides as it's free
00:57 < ssm_> seninha: dug through more manuals, figured out you need to specify ./ for relative files. now mshow works as I want
00:57 < ssm_> hooray!
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01:00 < phy1729> I generally think we should be pro OpenBSD in this channel not anti other stuff, so I'll let you come to your own conclusions on Oracle and it's chairman from other sources on the internet.
01:00 < ssm_> I am pro openbsd 7.7 and anti openbsd 7.6
01:00 < anelli> oh idk much about oracle tbh. they're the java ppl ig
01:01 < ssm_> they have a trackrecord of doing generally disagreeable things
01:01 < anelli> o sadge. time to pullup wikipedia
01:01 < ssm_> like destroying the sun
01:01 < pardis> personally, I would be totally fine with taking free things away from Oracle
01:01 < anelli> fr tho is it bad internet hygenie to read wikipedia as an introduction to a topic instead of just digging into references right away?
01:02 < anelli> pardis: this reminds me of the "it's always morally right to pirate adobe software" xD
01:02 < anelli> i def should've signed up for gsoc. damn my laziness
01:02 < ssm_> s/ adobe software//
01:02 < anelli> real!
01:03 < anelli> i hate game piracy tho. especially when it's indie stuff
01:04 < anelli> openbsd is anti-piracy cause you have to go through many hoops to run proprietary software xD
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01:05 < ssm_> the only proprietary software I know of that runs on openbsd is a very old version of ADOM
01:05 < mischief> i learned the other day akamai has a vps service
01:05 < mischief> vultr is good too.
01:05 < anelli> cool name
01:05 < anelli> ssm_: oh til
01:05 < ssm_> well, compiled binaries anyways. there's tons of games that use interpretors that work on openbsd, like balatro
01:06 < anelli> i'd die for dwarf fortress on openbsd
01:06 < ssm_> and arguably large portions of the internet
01:06 < anelli> but i wouldn't be able to play it then lol
01:06 < anelli> yeah c#/java stuff
01:06 < anelli> it's magic
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01:08 < ssm_> we have games/cataclysm-dda, which is allegedly like df adventure mode (I haven't played the latter)
01:08 < anelli> o i'll give it a look thx <3
01:08 < ssm_> but post apocalyptic and leans more into being a simulation
01:10 < mischief> cdda is probably the best open source game that runs on openbsd
01:11 < pardis> Vultr is good as long as you don't experience any outages
01:11 < pardis> I've had support take over an hour to even acknowledge my ticket when a server was completely offline before
01:11 < anelli> interestin
01:12 < anelli> pardis: aw :(
01:12 < anelli> thx for letting me know
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01:46 < RootCellar> pardis: oof. I've put an emergency ticket in with Hetzner before over a dead drive and I think they fully solved it in 20 minutes or less. Turned out the cable wasn't working, the drive was fine lol
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02:07 < seninha> ssm_, ADOM only runs on a very old OpenBSD installation.
02:07 < seninha> It is compiled with old major version of system's libs.
02:13 < ssm_> seninha: maybe it could run in a chroot? or would the kernel become an issue
02:13 < seninha> idk, I never tried.
02:14 < seninha> I even made an account on ADOM forum asking for a new build for OpenBSD, but got no response.
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02:14 < ssm_> proprietary software moment
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02:27 < oldlaptop> <ssm_> we have games/cataclysm-dda, which is allegedly like df adventure mode (I haven't played the latter)
02:27 < oldlaptop> I don't see that resemblance, really, beyond the bare concept of a roguelike with a persistent/open world. (But I haven't played either for a long time.)
02:29 < oldlaptop> DF is more amenable than a lot of games to running under vmm(4); unless something drastically changed while I wasn't paying attention, it's almost entirely single-threaded, and has a curses display mode.
02:30 < oldlaptop> (At least five or ten years ago it worked reasonably well over an ocean's worth of ssh.)
02:33 < mischief> cdda runs fine too over ssh :)
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02:38 < ssm_> oldlaptop: my crusty risc-v board doesn't have a vmm :(
02:38 < ssm_> well, I haven't switched to it yet
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03:09 < Aedil> Hi.
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04:06 < avemestr_> phy1729: I tried to use/get a "free tier forever" instance from Oracle. Wasted a month getting "Sorry, there's not resources available right now (Frankfurt)" on their site. Yet, every week they send me mails "Hi! Why are you not using the free $200 we gave you when you signed p?". It seems like a trap, where they hope people accidently spin up instances/services that cost real money and forget to
04:06 < avemestr_> turn them off.
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04:09 < avemestr_> Also, let's remember what Ellison said, when Oracle made false claims about Seibel (whom they felt threatened by): "We've got more lawyers than they do programmers".
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04:44 < anelli> o0x1eef: i was gonna use vmm yeah. i just like running stuff natively :b
04:44 < anelli> oh sorry o0x1eef wrong mention
04:44 < anelli> meant OldHead 
04:44 < anelli> oh sorry
04:44 < anelli> i need sleep
04:44 < anelli> old laptop
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06:00 < cobra> on a machine with i830M graphics, inteldrm causes a black screen
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12:00 < Michelle> And another block...
12:00 < Michelle> Create /usr/ports/packages/sparc64/all/bison-3.8.2.tgz
12:00 < Michelle> Error: Libraries in packing-lists in the ports tree and libraries from installed packages don't match (see DIAGNOSTICS in bsd.port.mk(5)
12:01 < Michelle> (and someone left an unclosed brace... arrrrrgggghhhhh!
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12:44 < Michelle> Same again here: 
12:44 < Michelle> Create /usr/ports/packages/sparc64/all/gmake-4.4.1.tgz
12:44 < Michelle> Error: Libraries in packing-lists in the ports tree and libraries from installed packages don't match (see DIAGNOSTICS in bsd.port.mk(5)
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13:15 < rgz> Hi, I'm on the Apple M1 Air. I already installed OpenBSD previously but I wanted to reinstall so I got rid of the OpenBSD partition, left the UEFI one installed by Asahi Linux's script and `dd`ed the install76.img to a drive which I boot from u-boot. I can get to the `boot>` prompt but it can't boot /bsd, it says it can't be found on esp0a and if I `ls esp0a:/` there is nothing there. I didn't have this issue in the first install. Any idea what's going on 
13:15 < rgz> here?
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13:16 < rgz> I guess I could work around this by downloading the kernel and putting it where it needs to be I assume sets will also be missing so I think I'm doing something wrong here.
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13:18 < rgz> The FAT partition for the install76.img contains https://bpa.st/IQKQ and I assume the kernel is on the OpenBSD partition, which I don't think I can mount on MacOS to debug things further.
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13:20 < rgz> I could try reinstalling the UEFI environment but I don't think that should make any difference
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13:58 < rgz> I reinstall the UEFI environment, it works again, I don't know why though
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15:31 < ninjin> I have an Intel Atom x7425E with four physical cores and a max turbo frequency of 3.4GHz. However, no matter what I do I can not get OpenBSD to go above the maximum not-turbo frequency of 1.5GHz even with apm -h. Digging on the mailing lists has so far not given me anything to go by. Bios fiddling with all options did nothing either.
15:32 < ninjin> Should be noted that dmesg reports nothing higher than 1501MHz.
15:40 < ninjin> Solved: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=171049313020471&w=2 In summary, hw.cpuspeed is not affected by turbo. Look instead at hw.sensors.cpu*.frequency0.
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15:48 < vortexx> ninjin: what is sysctl hw.perfpolicy set to?
15:49 < ninjin> vortexx: Auto in this case. I do see turbo-level frequencies now that I know where to look.
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15:54 < ninjin> Was a good learning experience. But I am struggling to have it drive my USB audio interface and be able to stream 1440p to 1080p video which I would need for a complete desktop replacement. Lovely little machine it sits in though, the Nuc 14 Rugged.
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16:03 < ninjin> Despite not wanting to run them, I will try Free and Net to see how they behave and maybe a Linux distribution as well. I suspect the software stack could be improved, but I lack the time and skills and sadly my annual donation is unlikely to be enough to fund substantial kernel development.
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18:17 < cobra> i get a black screen with inteldrm enabled (i830M)
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18:46 < vortexx> cobra: a dmesg and maybe some logs like /var/log/Xorg.0.log might be of use if you'd like some help
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19:14 < cobra> dmesg: https://0.vern.cc/ETu.txt
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19:18 < cobra> xorg.log: https://0.vern.cc/ETF.0.log
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19:20 < cobra> if i disable inteldrm in ukc the screen isnt black but xorg doesnt work
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19:27 < vortexx> cobra: are you using xenodm to start X? Does ctrl-alt-del do anything?
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19:28 < vortexx> maybe try changing SNA accel for UXA? I think I read someone doing that on the misc@ ml
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19:34 < armin> hmm, so "xbacklight -dec 10 -time 0" is painfully slow on my t490s thinkpad, can i anyhow make that at least a little bit more instant?
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19:38 < armin> oh, -steps 1 seems to help
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20:08 < cobra> vortexx: it doesnt have anything to do with X, the screen goes black when inteldrm loads
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--- Log closed Sun Apr 13 00:00:40 2025