--- Log opened Thu Apr 17 00:00:45 2025
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01:01 < WhyNotHugo> the first connection attempt to any external host fails, but a subsequent attempt always succeeds. I noticed that the first attempt always had a larger win size. I added `mtu 1492` to rad.conf on my router, and now the issue is solved
01:01 < WhyNotHugo> it doesn't sound right that i have to hardcode the mtu like this; shouldn't this solved automatically somehow?
01:02 < WhyNotHugo> i.e.: am i applying a hack to something else that's failing, or is this the correct solution?
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01:08 < WhyNotHugo> this sounds like a hack tbh, and i'm also reducing the mtu for non-outbound packets
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01:42 < tommyrot> scrub w/ max-mss in pf.conf might help you
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01:46 < WhyNotHugo> I tried scrubbing at 1440, which should be smaller than required if my math is correct.
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02:14 < mischief> no PMTUD?
02:15 < mischief> are you doing something silly like dropping icmp
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03:54 < aaronm04> is man.openbsd.org down?
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04:00 < phy1729> I get a TLS handshake, but no HTTP response.
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04:00 < phy1729> Oh there it goes
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09:08 < tuplario> IcePic: going with the same unserious approach I guess you could dmesg | sort | uniq
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09:15 < IcePic> tuplario: then we could talk for a long time about the optimization of sort -u
09:15 < IcePic> saving one pipe, in this time critical section
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09:24 < tuplario> IcePic: very true
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11:32 < vortexx> syspatch build failed because of a missing lib... then I noticed the VM only had 128M of ram. Upped that to 512M. And now I notice this doesn't work like using dpb, it deletes all obj files so you can't restart where you were. Edited bsd.syspatch.mk to remove that in case I need to restart again.
11:33 < vortexx> now for another 12 hour wait :)
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11:49 < IcePic> vortexx: which lib was missing?
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11:51 < IcePic> and the "this" in your sentence is a bit vague. If you run "make build" its going to run clean, then obj, then depend and then make and so on, but if you had done "make -n build" or something, it would have shown you the steps it was going to take and you could possible jumped in at the middle with a simple "make" to continue it
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12:30 < vortexx> IcePic: multi3.so
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12:31 < vortexx> I'm just following the readme
12:31 < vortexx> The patched release can now be built. # FAKEROOT=/fakeroot make -f Makefile.001 001_dummy/.plist
12:32 < vortexx> this calls bsd.syspatch.mk which has make clean && make obj && make in it 
12:32 < vortexx> it's not quite the build system for making a release
12:33 < vortexx> readme is at /usr/src/distrib/syspatch/README if you're interested
12:33 < vortexx> I gotta go out for a bit, bbl
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13:04 < jrx> Hello, what model of single-board computers (SBCs) do you recommend for running OpenBSD with Wifi ?
13:04 < Posterdati> jrm: I'm using a RPI3B+
13:05 < jrx> Posterdati: and are you experiencing any limitation ?
13:07 < jrm> Posterdati: ack
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13:09 < oldlaptop> You might want to describe what you want to do in more detail.
13:10 < oldlaptop> (e.g. the answer might be different based on whether you need a display output, or a serial console, or ethernet interfaces (how many?), or whether you want a wi-fi client or an AP, or...)
13:11 < jrx> oldlaptop: I want to run a little web server in my house, accessible from internet, publishing emacs on the web through the use of gotty
13:11 < oldlaptop> I wouldn't do that over wi-fi, full stop.
13:12 < oldlaptop> Too inherently unreliable, besides whatever problems specific to openbsd's driver stack you'd have
13:12 < jrx> oldlaptop: yes, I could put it near my internet box I guess
13:12 < jrx> and use a cable
13:13 < oldlaptop> (I'd also be very wary about doing that from a residential connection at all. What happens if some scuzzbag decides to DDoS your web server? Or semi-accidentally DoS it with a scraperbot?)
13:14 < oldlaptop> Depending on exactly how you want to use it, those could be very serious problems, or not problems at all
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13:15 < jrx> oldlaptop: it's just for me, I don't want to share with anyone
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13:15 < oldlaptop> "it's my personal website on which I will publish political opinions" versus "it's my owncloud or whatever and I don't even want to run the web server on port 80/443"
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13:15 < jrx> the 2nd one
13:16 < oldlaptop> (maybe the first is still fine as long as nobody finds and reads it :P)
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13:16 < oldlaptop> So probably not a problem at all :)
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13:17 < jrx> oldlaptop: the best way to learn security is to host a web server publishing political opinions.
13:17 < oldlaptop> I'd still strongly suggest not using wifi.
13:18 < jrx> oldlaptop: yes. Well, considering the price, I'll try *something* and adapt along the way...
13:18 < oldlaptop> There's probably better ways to encourage DDoS/other attacks - my first example was going to be "my small business's webpage", but you (probably) should have a not-residential connection for that :P
13:18 < IcePic> jrx: a talk in the 90s about keepign your webserver up and doing (only) its job was held by someone running a pr0n site, they had very interesting "enemies" who were very determined to try to get content without paying for it.
13:18 < oldlaptop> And there's possibly the worst/best kind of "small business" for that...
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13:19 < jrx> yes
13:19 < IcePic> think the subject was like "Keeping your web up in a hostile environment" and then when people came to the talk it was disclosed what the actual business was.
13:20 < IcePic> I think they ran fbsd, but my memory is a bit fuzzy, long time ago now
13:20 < jrx> what is a non-hostile environment ? ;)
13:21 < oldlaptop> what you get after you unplug the cable leading to the internet, I guess
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13:22 < jrx> oldlaptop: yes, and the powercable too ;)
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13:33 < Michelle> no getipnodebyname on openbsd...? grumble grumble grumble
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13:41 < jrx> Michelle: getnameinfo() ?
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13:45 < jrx> openbsd cited : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lb3T3R_z2k
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13:52 < IcePic> Michelle: that penguin-OS doesn't like that call either. "These functions are deprecated (and unavailable in glibc).  Use getaddrinfo(3) and getnameinfo(3) instead.
13:52 < IcePic> "
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13:53 < PyR3X> I have two domains I'm looking to renew via acme-client and have two cron jobs 'acme-client blah.blah.com && rcctl reload httpd' and then 'acme-client blah2.blah.com && rcctl reload httpd && cp /etc/ssl/blah2.blah.com.fullchain.pem /var/lol/etc/ssl && rcctl reload mycoolapp' however the second acme-client call did not seem to work make the copy..
13:53 < PyR3X> does the first acme-client call run it for both somehow and therefore I got a '2' exit code on the second?
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13:54 < IcePic> a letsencrypt cert can well contain two or more names, yes
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13:55 < PyR3X> what if I have two different domain blocks in acme-client.conf
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13:55 < PyR3X> i.e. domain blah.blah.com and domain blah2.blah.com
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14:01 < IcePic> I'm not sure with acme-client, but if it responds to both names, it can ask for, and renew both at the same time. It needs to validate both, but there is no reason why acme-client would not do that in one request
14:02 < renaud> you can do "domain example.com { alernative names { blah2.com blah3.com } .... }
14:03 < renaud> it will send 1 request per name (alternative or main)
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14:04 < renaud> so, in this example, it will send 3 requests, example.com blah2.com and blah3.com
14:05 < IcePic> renaud: sure, but is it in one invocation of acme-client or 3?
14:05 < renaud> just 1
14:05 < renaud> acme-client example.com
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14:06 < renaud> I have 19 alternative domain names and 1 main, and only use 1 invocation of acme-client to create a new cert with all those domains
14:07 < renaud> wildcards won't work
14:08 < renaud> of course, if any of those domains fail, it will fail for all of them
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14:18 < vortexx> jrx: the old answer to your question is the PC Engines APU1/2/3/4/5/6 but that's EOL now. You can probably buy one on ebay for cheap, they're very well supported and if you put a large enough m-sata card or plug in a usb drive it should be more than enough 
14:19 < vortexx> 3/4 ethernet ports
14:19 < vortexx> and it runs fanless, so no noise issues
14:20 < jrx> vortexx: thanks for the info
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14:23 < vortexx> jrx: you're welcome, www.pcengines.ch is the website, it's still up but they're not taking orders
14:23 < vortexx> a lot of us in here run that hw as our routers (so long as the connection is <500Mbps)
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14:24 < vortexx> get an APU6 if you don't have a serial cable + usb2serial adapter, cos it uses a microUSB port for serial
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14:26 < jrx> ok
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14:35 < sibiria> jrx: the odroids are very affordable and powerful
14:35 < sibiria> iirc there is a $99 model now
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14:36 < sibiria> limited to USB-based wifi, however
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14:39 < jrx> sibiria: thx, 
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14:41 < jrx> so nice ! https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-go-ultra-clear-white/ but for an other project ;)
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14:47 < sibiria> it's a very nice handheld. i was about to buy it, but chose a different brand
14:48 < vortexx> oh they're own to $99 now? nice
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14:48 < sibiria> h4 base model should be $99. but it has no SATA ports i think
14:48 < vortexx> s/own/down
14:50 < sibiria> better to get the h4+, for eventual future need
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15:02  * oldlaptop very much likes an apu4
15:03 < oldlaptop> Don't suppose you'd know anything about potential future plans, vortexx?
15:04 < oldlaptop> is it as we all fear: "moving on to other things" means retiring and raising dairy cattle?
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15:05 < oldlaptop> (which is not really retirement at all, but never mind)
15:08 < thrig> way to milk that joke
15:09  * oldlaptop glares
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15:16 < vortexx> oldlaptop: I believe Pascal Dornier has decided to move on from designing and selling his own single board PCs
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15:23 < Bradipo> PC Engines?
15:23 < Bradipo> I was disappointed when the soekris line ended.
15:23 < vortexx> dunno if this means retirement or a new project or employment in a different domain. I believe the supply chain issues during covid messed badly with this small company. The arm board that might have been the future may also have had teething issues plus the usual driver + boot problems on that platform
15:23 < Bradipo> I still have one soekris in production, just runs.
15:23 < vortexx> Bradipo: yes
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15:25  * oldlaptop remembers well the dumpster fire disrupting apu production
15:26 < oldlaptop> the page with the "intel delivers" snark is still up, I'm glad to see https://pcengines.ch/leadtime.htm
15:27 < sibiria> shame he never got around to do an AMD + Realtek board
15:27 < oldlaptop> Well, he sort of did - that was apu1 :P
15:28 < oldlaptop> https://pcengines.ch/apu1d.htm see, there the crabs are! right there!
15:29 < oldlaptop> I guess the killer is that there isn't really appropriate amd64 silicon being produced anymore
15:29 < oldlaptop> AMD's new stuff seems to lean in to the iGPU pretty heavily
15:29 < sibiria> oh, had no idea the apu1 ran realtek
15:30 < oldlaptop> (even what's on apu1/2 has an iGPU that's fused off or something)
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15:31 < vortexx> I've still got an apu1 in service for my us vpn it runs great 
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15:32 < oldlaptop> Half the CPU resources and nominally inferior NICs, but otherwise... hard to complain
15:32 < vortexx> sibiria: where's the console port on the odroids?
15:35 < vortexx> iirc Mr Dornier was complaining a while back about AMD no longer caring much about TDP on their embedded stuff
15:35 < sibiria> vortexx: in the expansion bus
15:35 < vortexx> which led to the arm project
15:36 < vortexx> sibiria: ah right, thanks
15:36 < sibiria> the 2.54mm header
15:39 < vortexx> thanks
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15:55 < oldlaptop> <vortexx> iirc Mr Dornier was complaining a while back about AMD no longer caring much about TDP on their embedded stuff
15:55 < oldlaptop> The vague impression I get from the outside is that they're leaning in to applications that make heavy use of the (relatively power-hungry) iGPU
15:56 < oldlaptop> the "ryzen embedded" boards they brag about in marketing material tend to have "look how many DP ports we have for your video wall!" as a selling point
15:57 < oldlaptop> not "we have a full-sized serial console port and don't waste power on a video output for your router"
15:58 < oldlaptop> or money, I guess, but I bet a DB-9 actually costs way more than a DP socket
15:58 < Bradipo> Speaking of GPUs... I assume OpenBSD utilizes them if they are available?
15:58 < oldlaptop> ...sure?
15:59 < oldlaptop> depends on what you mean
15:59 < Bradipo> Let's say I'm rendering something with Blender on OpenBSD. :-)
15:59 < oldlaptop> Anything with a video output is "utilizing a GPU", generally speaking.
15:59 < oldlaptop> OpenGL and so on will work as expected. I don't know offhand what blender does - I don't think OpenCL works. Maybe vulkan does?
16:00 < oldlaptop> nvidia stuff is 100% unsupported because of the way that nvidia is
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16:01 < oldlaptop> (with a limited exception for some really, really old stuff that works with nv(4))
16:05 < eea> intel gpu "just works(tm)"
16:07 < eea> in my own anecdotal experience
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16:15 < sibiria> you won't be getting any GPU-accelerated raytracing with blender under openbsd
16:16 < sibiria> not even with an AMD GPU
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16:19 < Bradipo> Hmm, that's too bad.
16:23 < eea> blender isn't an app/tool i use
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18:30 < Anti-Citation> test
18:31 < Anti-Citation> any1 there?
18:31 < quinq> Anti-Citation$ test 
18:31 < quinq> ^-- fail
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18:32 < Anti-Citation> Did a fresh install of OpenBSD 7.6 recently but it doesn't recognize Ethernet or Wifi even when I have the firmware
18:32 < Anti-Citation> what do?
18:35 < uwharrie> get new ethernet or wifi adapters
18:35 < Anti-Citation> So is it because the hardware is not supported? On a t440p for context.
18:37 < uwharrie> that's usually the case, but it depends on the specific chipsets in use, not the machine model
18:40 < vortexx> Anti-Citation: if you can find a way to upload a dmesg that'd help diagnostics
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18:45 < Anti-Citation> vortexx When I did dmesg | grep to look for the network interfaces it outputed nothing, ifconfig dosen't show any em0 either
18:46 < oldlaptop> That's a hint that you need to provide the whole dmesg before we can say much else.
18:47 < uwharrie> dmesg will tell you what devices the kernel finds but is unable to initialize
18:47 < vortexx> how old is this hw Anti-Citation ?
18:48 < vortexx> if it's second hand, their may be a reason for that
18:49 < vortexx> (I ask because so many people come in here with old thinkpads since the devs have been prefering this hw for decades)
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18:50 < oldlaptop> and because usually the only reason it's secondhand is that hey look, the calendar here at Multicorp Intl. Inc. says it's time to refresh the thinkpads
18:51 < Anti-Citation> vortexx it's probably around 10-11 years old
18:52 < vortexx> https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=7167 here's a t440p with working em0
18:52 < vortexx> just so we have an overview till you upload yours
18:53 < oldlaptop> (note that there's no reason "ethernet is em0" - em(4) is a particular device driver for hardware that *happens* to be *common*, especially on thinkpads, but is not universal)
18:53 < vortexx> (I know)
18:53 < vortexx> this dmesg has iwm0 too
18:53  * oldlaptop does not assume Anti-Citation necessarily knows
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19:16 < vortexx> Anti-Citation: while you're at it, you could test a snapshot too, but I'd be really surprised if the network interfaces start showing up. Does the BIOS have an option to turn on or off all network interfaces?
19:16 < vortexx> might be a killswitch thing
19:16 < vortexx> (I've never owned a thinkpad but I know they tend to have more knobs than the average laptop)
19:16 < anelli> there's a wifi killswitch on older ones yeah
19:17 < anelli> but never seen an ethernet killswitch
19:17 < vortexx> neither have I
19:18 < vortexx> bluetooth killswitches exist too
19:18 < Bradipo> Ethernet kill switch is "unplug cable".
19:18 < vortexx> especially as they tend to be on the same chip
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19:18 < vortexx> Bradipo: :P
19:18  * oldlaptop mutters something about "older ones? that's on the new ones, T4x and X3x/X4x don't have those"
19:19 < anelli> relativity
19:19 < anelli> s/relatively/ wahtever
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19:24 < vortexx> oldlaptop: would this hw have the network stuff on separate boards or all on the same mobo? (likely the latter)
19:25 < oldlaptop> T?40 are newer than I have any interest in or examples of
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19:26 < oldlaptop> -p in this period means (IIRC) compact, which might suggest stuff is soldered on
19:26 < oldlaptop> (on earlier models it means "hotter-running CPU and GPU")
19:27 < vortexx> ok thx
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19:37 < Bradipo> Wow, tigervnc has dependencies on lame, libvorbis, sdl... what is this thing doing?
19:38 < vortexx> you should see the dependencies on minidlna
19:39 < sibiria> Bradipo: it's built with ffmpeg, is the problem
19:40 < sibiria> openbsd has one ffmpeg package with does *everything*
19:40 < sibiria> no separate package just for libavcodec
19:40 < sibiria> so 120 mb dep chain it is
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19:41 < Anti-Citation> vortexx oldlaptop sorry that took a while, here is that dmesg output https://pastebin.com/D1MaTXvm
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19:46 < uwharrie> for one: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=159067155728909&w=2
19:47 < vortexx> ok wifi is "Atheros AR9462" rev 0x01 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 not configured
19:47 < vortexx> I'd swap that out, it's not going to work in OpenBSD
19:47 < vortexx> get some intel thing like the 7260 or 8260
19:48 < vortexx> em0 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 "Intel I217-LM" rev 0x05: cannot find mem space <--- that is REALLY odd
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19:48 < vortexx> pretty much bugs@ worthy
19:48 < uwharrie> bunch of PCI memory address conflicts above that
19:48 < vortexx> Anti-Citation: no worries I know it's tedious doing sneakernet
19:49 < vortexx> yeah many more than in similar dmesgs from other t440ps
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19:50 < oldlaptop> Might be worth looking in firmware menus for related settings, I suppose?
19:50 < oldlaptop> something very odd.
19:51 < vortexx> bios reset maybe?
19:51 < vortexx> or at least upgrade to the latest available
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19:56 < vortexx> bbl
19:57 < Anti-Citation> Should of mentioned it's on libreboot
20:00 < vortexx> oh. that's really poorly supported on OpenBSD
20:03 < Anti-Citation> that's what I thought... the docs https://libreboot.org/docs/bsd/ say its supported but I guess there are issues
20:04 < uwharrie> that's the libreboot view. openbsd devs have other opinions
20:04 < Anti-Citation> All the linux distros I've installed work fine, it's just the BSDs that i've had issues with.
20:05 < Anti-Citation> uwharrie ah...
20:05 < gnucode> Anti-Citation:  go ask that question in the #libreboot channel
20:06 < gnucode> the developer is pretty good at helping you out.
20:06 < Anti-Citation> will do, thanks
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20:07 < gnucode> I currently use openBSD and libreboot.  So I know that it works.
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20:47 < visl> this is probably a long shot, but with openbsd on a framework16, the trackpad in X only works with 5 fingers, not 1. here is some info here: https://community.frame.work/t/openbsd-touchpad-only-working-when-using-5-fingers/49030/11  (it uses reportid 1 instead of reportid 4?) -- is there any configuration knob i can set to tell the kernel to use the correct reportid? 
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21:38 < ssm_> is spamd unable to properly greylist gmail? because from what I can tell gmail keeps using different hosts for the same senders which means I get a bunch of keys in spamd that get whitelisted but gmail never actually uses them and I never get my mail
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21:43 < Bradipo> ssm_: If the email doesn't time out of Gmail's queue first, yes.
21:43 < Bradipo> If you want to whitelist Gmail...
21:46 < Bradipo> You can probably retrieve a list of MXes to whitelist looking at their SPF record. lol.
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21:48 < ssm_> think I'll just use spamd.alloweddomains maybe
21:48 < Bradipo> Gmail is terrible to deal with.  They are extremely authoritarian when it comes to email.
21:49 < Bradipo> Despite the fact that it's spam blocking theater for the most part, lol.
21:49 < ssm_> tried getting people on my mail server before but they don't want to :(
21:49 < anelli> sadge
21:49 < anelli> ssm_: you running a mail server from base?
21:49 < anelli> s/from/using/
21:49 < anelli> i'm tryna do that and haven't found proper dkim yet. i think i'll end up combining opendkim and smtpd-dkim-sign
21:49 < ssm_> anelli: yes, only external package is opensmtpd-filter-dkimsign
21:50 < Bradipo> ssm_: So spamd.alloweddomains will do what exactly?  Anyone that spoofs @gmail.com will be able to bypass your spamd?
21:50 < ssm_> Bradipo: yeah good point
21:51 < Bradipo> It looks like spamd.alloweddomains is not for sender domains, but for destination domains.
21:52 < Bradipo> What would be ideal is if spamd had an option like tcpserver's -p (paranoid) mode that would effectively look up the PTR record for the connecting MTA, then resolve the forward lookup and set a variable if they match.
21:52 < ssm_> I filter for rdns, fcrdns, and for dynamic/residential connections, so that should block some spoofers. they show up in my log a lot
21:52 < Bradipo> Then you could have spamd whitelist anything that claims to be a subdomain of gmail.com in DNS.
21:53 < Bradipo> Right, so in this case, what I'm talking about is what you call fcrdns. :-)
21:54 < anelli> > anelli: yes, only external package is opensmtpd-filter-dkimsign
21:54 < anelli> ssm_: nice. what do you dkim-verify with?
21:55 < sibiria> anelli: https://imperialat.at/dev/filter-dkimverify/
21:56 < anelli> sibiria: oh cool i'll give it a look. thx
21:56 < anelli> i think dkim should be part of base tbh. i'm an email noob tho so idk it might be out for a good reason
21:57 < sibiria> ssm_: you can omit rdns. fcrdns is effectively both in one go
21:58 < Bradipo> I don't reject email based upon rdns or fcrdns.
21:58 < anelli> same tbh
21:58 < Bradipo> It's largely not useful for rejecting.
21:58 < anelli> i think rdns/fcrdns is gatekeeping lol
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21:59 < Bradipo> I do, however, use lack of fcrdns to impose a greeting delay.
21:59 < anelli> thas fair
21:59 < Bradipo> anelli: I tend to agree.  So is SPF and DKIM. :-)
21:59 < sibiria> it effectively keeps a ton of open relays off of your back. it's a useful tool
21:59 < ssm_> yeah rdns sucks because it requires static ip, I might stop filtering it and see how spammy it gets
21:59 < anelli> Bradipo: oh at least anyone can add spf/dkim records in their dns zonefile. for fcrdns you need that annoying ptr
21:59 < Bradipo> My server rarely receives any spam that gets delivered to inboxes.
22:00 < anelli> so yeah limits who can selfhost 
22:00 < anelli> > yeah rdns sucks because it requires static ip, I might stop filtering it and see how spammy it gets
22:00 < Bradipo> anelli: True, I guess SPF is more in control of the domain administrator.
22:00 < anelli> ssm_: static ip isn't the problem as much as getting a ptr from your isp :b
22:00 < anelli> Bradipo: i think selfhosting dns comes with email admin tbh
22:01 < Bradipo> Yep.  Some ISPs are alright, but most are clueless when it comes to PTRs.
22:01 < anelli> mine don't even know the difference between a modem and combo router
22:01 < anelli> so i'm running my router (missing a modem as it's a regular computer) behind their router ;-;
22:02 < anelli> idk don't wanna buy an incompatible modem before checking with my isp
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22:05 < thrig> upstream DNS folks: "what's a glue record?"
22:05 < Bradipo> Oh my... you can tell the difference between someone who claims to know DNS and someone who does by asking them about "glue". lol.
22:05 < anelli> hehe. thankfully my registrar has a field for it
22:06 < Bradipo> Some DNS resellers make it difficult to find.
22:08 < thrig> they didn't have a glue thingy in their fancy web interface, hence me asking
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23:47 < mischief> hrm, trying to run npppd and just get ENOBUFS
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 18 00:00:00 2025