--- Log opened Fri Apr 25 00:00:24 2025
--- Day changed Fri Apr 25 2025
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00:34 < seninha> sibiria, ssm_ thanks :)
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00:35 < seninha> I found this 2012 blog post on SSD FDE on OpenBSD: https://brycv.com/blog/2012/encrypted-root-filesystem-using-softraid-4-on-openbsd-with-an-slc-ssd/
00:35 < seninha> The author recommends SLC SSDs for more write endurance.
00:36 < XZDX> long shot here
00:36 < seninha> I am really anxious about the possibility of not being able to decrypt the disk after a unmounted shutdown
00:36 < XZDX> does anyone know what the ethernet adaptor is that anelli has
00:37 < XZDX> I meant to ask him
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01:38 < XZDX> ok I got questions is anyone hangin out here
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01:43 < mischief> natch
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01:44 < dax> was that the question or
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02:26 < XZDX> I know opnsense is fbsd based and I learned today the point of obsd is no nda.  But I am concerned for my friend.  Theres a lot of packed in tools with opnsense that he might need in the future, and idk if obsd will be good for that
02:28 < XZDX> as well, he has a ethernet usb thing that uses NDC-CDC and he might make a laptop into a router.  Does NDC-CDC work correctly on OBSD?  Also can he make a wifi AP with the wireless card in the laptop and have it work?  I know in the past that was kinda iffy with things like pfsense.
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02:30 < XZDX> he said he needed to make a script to reset the NDC dongle in ifconfig every few minutes
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02:33 < dax> I think your friend would be best served by joining the channel himself if he has questions.
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02:34 < XZDX> He'll have questions and will be in here later
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02:34 < XZDX> I'm just trying to figure out is OBSD really that much better than something like opnsense?
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02:35 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD and OPNsense are not really directly comparable.
02:36 < XZDX> I'm somewhat aware of that
02:36 < XZDX> and actually we even had a fight because I misundertstood his DMZ setup
02:36 < XZDX> didn't mean to rly
02:36 < oldlaptop> Most wifi hardware does not support AP mode. The manual page for the relevant driver will say whether it does or not.
02:36 < oldlaptop> (I would not recommend running an AP on OpenBSD as a general matter.)
02:37 < XZDX> Yeah I told him that wasn't a good idea and to get a router and he said that sounded like a bad idea
02:37 < oldlaptop> I would want a dedicated AP, and an OpenBSD router.
02:38 < XZDX> But don't you need to do everything by hand?
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02:39 < oldlaptop> I'm not sure what you mean by "the point of obsd is no nda". If you mean that OpenBSD developers don't agree to sign NDAs in exchange for documentation from hardware vendors, that's certainly true - but it's hardly *the* single "point".
02:39 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD doesn't come with a clicky-clicky web app UI, if that's what you mean.
02:39 < oldlaptop> (There is a cisco-esque specialized command-line shell in ports, somewhere.)
02:40 < mischief> that maintainer is fairly active and seems receptive to feedback, fyi
02:40 < mischief> or author, i should probably say
02:40 < XZDX> like ios config?
02:40 < oldlaptop> https://openports.pl/path/shells/nsh that's the thing
02:40 < mischief> XZDX: yes, it tries to emulate iOS's shell.
02:40 < oldlaptop> I have nothing else to say about it, certainly no opinion about it. (I'm not interested in such a thing.)
02:41 < mischief> though it's probably something you'd give to your intern, not really a thing an old hand at openbsd would use
02:42 < XZDX> NGL NSH looks like it'd be in the way
02:43 < oldlaptop> Clearly at least one well-motivated person wants it. :)
02:43 < XZDX> theres certainly something to saying that building your own cisco switch is a cool idea
02:43 < XZDX> idk
02:43 < XZDX> I am worried
02:44 < XZDX> me and anelli are going to do some business things maybe but we want to tighten down first
02:44 < XZDX> I have access to more industrious machines than he does
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02:52 < XZDX> Hell and I'll admit, I'm concerned about my own setup
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03:19 < seninha> I am trying to install openbsd via pxeboot(8), but am getting a panic when booting from the /bsd kernel fetched from tftp. It reads: “panic: reverse arp not answered by rarpd(8) or dhcpd(8)”.
03:20 < seninha> I do not have rarpd running, and my dhcpd is https://termbin.com/sjjb
03:21 < seninha> pxeboot(8) only says about starting dhcpd(8), and nothing about rarpd(8) as far as i rember; is there anything i messed on my install server's dhcpd?
03:21 < seninha> s/messed/missed/
03:22 < seninha> my /etc/pf.conf is base's /etc/examples/pf.conf btw
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06:41 < ssm_> is building the kernel on multiple threads supported?
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06:45 < CosmicDJ> ssm_: https://www.openbsd.org/43.html "A large part of the source tree [...] now build correctly with make -j."
06:46 < CosmicDJ> ssm_: https://blog.stoege.net/posts/openbsd_kernel/
06:46 < ssm_> hooray!
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06:50 < renaud> it works, that doesn't mean it's "supported" :)
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07:07 < IcePic> I think it has been posted as "this is meant to work"
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07:51 < vortexx> I've been using -j9 to build releases for 5+ years, never had an issue
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08:07 < vortexx> ssm_: if you find ssh too laggy, you could enable telnetd via inetd and telnet in
08:07 < vortexx> also maybe play with line speeds, I have no idea what the max might be on your hw
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09:22 < renaud> vortexx: yes, I know it works, I have been building releases that way. But that does not mean OpenBSD devs support that. If you have an issue, you will probably be asked to repeat the build without multithread.
09:23 < renaud> forget telnetd tough :)
09:24 < IcePic> I'd say mosh is nicer than telnet if you have packet drops or latency problems
09:24 < renaud> as IcePic said :)
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09:35 < vortexx> IcePic: renaud: true!
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10:08 < anelli> sorry chat i was just discussing my setup with my friend and they decided to help while i was asleep
10:09 < anelli> talking about backlog with XZDX but it don't matter now lol
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12:58 < renaud> still no 7.7 :'(
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13:08 < vortexx> looks like the 30th will be the date
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13:12 < vortexx> renaud: to be honest, they keep announcing new daemons or versions of daemons used by not just OpenBSD, so I'm not surprised it's not out yet
13:13 < vortexx> like these: https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20250425082010
13:13 < vortexx> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20250425074505
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13:35 < oldlaptop> those both look like "the tree's unlocked, time for big commits" things to me, just offhand
13:36 < oldlaptop> (or in that second case not even a commit (yet?))
13:36 < oldlaptop> neither of them, actually!
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14:16 < Foxy_> renaud: release date for 7.7 => Wed Apr 30 2025 (see etc/root/root.mail in sources tree)
14:17 < morpho> awesome
14:18 < renaud> Foxy_: I know, but in general, it's available earlier and announced at that date :)
14:20 < morpho> does openbsd work well on 32bit
14:21 < Posterdati> Foxy_: nooooooooooo it is too late!
14:21 < renaud> morpho: it runs on 32bit, but if you have 64bit, go for 64
14:22 < morpho> i have an x60s
14:22 < morpho> its running debian 8 or something at the moment
14:23 < morpho> might try netbsd?
14:23 < renaud> from what I can see, the CPUs on an x60s are 64bit
14:23 < rIMpossible> morpho: I run 7.6-STABLE on X61S (amd64) runs very well
14:23 < rIMpossible> morpho: Lenovo, I assume?
14:24 < morpho> ye
14:24 < renaud> ah, no, they are not all 64bit
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14:27 < renaud> it will depend on the CPU you have, check 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' on your linux
14:27 < renaud> then take the "model name" and check if it supports 64bit instruction set
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14:27 < morpho> its 32bit, ive had the machine 15 years
14:27 < renaud> if it's a L2300/2400/2500, you are out of luck
14:28 < renaud> but OpenBSD runs fine on 32bits, you only have the usual limitations of 32 bits
14:28 < renaud> from what I can see, some x60s have a core 2 duo, which is 64bits
14:29 < morpho> thankyou
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14:33 < IcePic> renaud: My x60s didn't do 64bit, depends on luck I guess
14:33 < renaud> well, it seems some have 64bit and some have 32bit
14:33 < IcePic> yeah
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14:33 < IcePic> I had the lowest-power one with longest battery, but that might have meant "no64bit for you"
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14:47 < ludovicus> yea my T60 had many issues running 64-bit
14:47 < ludovicus> no problems with 32
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14:54 < remiliascarlet> renaud: OpenBSD works OK on my ThinkPad T43, and kind of OK (but noticably slower) on my PowerBook G4 (PowerPC, not Intel). So yes, OpenBSD works fine on 32 bit machines. The only question is, for how long under they decide to deprecate it.
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14:55 < Posterdati> OpenBSD 7.6 works fine on my Raspberry PI 3B+
14:55 < remiliascarlet> The most regrettable port I regret they decided to deprecate is SGI's MIPS port.
14:56 < Posterdati> yes
14:56 < remiliascarlet> My SGI Indy runs IRIX nowaways, because the only modern option is NetBSD, and it runs like absolute ass.
14:57 < Posterdati> unfortunately I have an Indigo 2 here with broken scsi hd, I liked to run an OpenBSD on it, but I wasn't able to find a nice scsi to sdcard board
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15:01 < kack> Is there anything special on how to run ssh regressions? I am able to run t1-8 and then t-connect fails.
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15:13 < armin> I'm running OpenBSD just fine on a bunch of old thinclients I actually found on the trash.
15:14 < armin> Probably by far (!) the most reliable installations I have.
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15:41 < eea> i run OpenBSD on a rando collection of offlease gear, far more relaible than any other OS in my collection
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15:42 < eea> freebsd, fedora, windows, macos
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15:52 < sibiria> i've run osx/macos for just over 20 years, and have had one single case of unreliability ever. had a kernel panic once when experimenting with using my own intel speedstep freq/voltage pairs, to optimize power consumption
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15:59 < armin> eea: openbsd, freebsd, debian, fedora, alpine, NixOS, macOS here...
16:00 < armin> and probably some live-booted antiX I forgot somewhere
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16:08 < Posterdati> what about a nice sun e420r?
16:08 < Posterdati> lol
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16:25 < IcePic> reading the f/nbsd mips lists seems to indicate that obsd is surprisingly stable for that platform compared to the two other
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17:32 < Posterdati> is it out?
17:32 < Posterdati> is it out?
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17:35 < sibiria> check back next week
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19:06 < fan> hello
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19:07 < anelli> hi
19:07 < fan> Recently I wrote about nvidia driver
19:09 < fan> After install openbsd I have size screen 640x480
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19:11 < fan> I created file /etc/sysctl.conf
19:11 < armin> fan: I'm no expert in the field, but I reckon that's because your GPU is not well supported by the hardware drivers that OpenBSD comes with, so you get at least *some* kind of working X after installation, which obviously has low resolution graphics (and no acceleration or something, but that's just a guess).
19:11 < fan> machdep.allowaperture=2
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19:13 < mischief> were you the guy with the gtx 980 or something
19:13 < fan> size screen 1240x780
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19:14 < fan> Can I increase size screen&
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19:15 < fan> mischief: Maybe
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19:17 < oldlaptop> fan: Your GPU is not supported. If you want to use it with OpenBSD, you'd be well-advised to either replace it (probably with an AMD GPU) or simply remove it and use your system's integrated Intel GPU.
19:17 < oldlaptop> (which, if I recall correctly from your dmesg the other day, you should be able to do)
19:19 < oldlaptop> It's possible in principle to use the efifb(4) driver (https://man.openbsd.org/efifb) to get, possibly, slightly less terrible video output than you're (likely) getting automatically through vesa(4) (https://man.openbsd.org/vesa), but given that you should be able to get far better results by simply removing the NVIDIA GPU, that isn't really going to be worthwhile.
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19:21 < oldlaptop> You may also be able to use the integrated GPU without removing the NVIDIA one outright, depending on how your machine's firmware ("BIOS") is set up. That would involve at the very least disconnecting your monitor from the NVIDIA GPU and connecting it to the motherboard's built-in video output instead.
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19:40 < fan> oldlaptop: reitting VESA is not working
19:41 < fan> I created file /etc/sysctl.conf with machdep.allowaperture=2
19:42 < fan> without removing the NVIDIA
19:42 < oldlaptop> I saw that. Unfortunately, doing that will not cause NVIDIA to write an OpenBSD driver that supports your hardware and mail it in to tech@.
19:43 < oldlaptop> There is absolutely no support, beyond the VESA standard and the EFI framebuffer, for any NVIDIA hardware on OpenBSD, other than the ancient junk listed in nv(4). https://man.openbsd.org/amd64/nv.4
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19:44 < oldlaptop> nv(4) itself is sufficiently limited that even hardware it supports is not particularly desirable.
19:44 < ssm_> is porting nouveau an issue for some reason?
19:45 < oldlaptop> (I guess technically there's some NVIDIA networking and other hardware that works. You're not asking about that, though. https://man.openbsd.org/amd64/nfe.4)
19:45 < ssm_> nv(4) is at the forefront of hardcore openbsd gaming technology
19:46 < oldlaptop> ssm_: I don't think the two or three people who shovel that particular Augean stable for openbsd are particularly motivated to do all that work, because they've been avoiding nvidia hardware for decades, because nvidia has been a hostile vendor since sometime in the previous century.
19:46 < oldlaptop> Intel and AMD are (relatively) friendly, to the point of actually releasing driver code under free licenses. So their stuff (mostly) works.
19:48 < oldlaptop> (I'm given to understand nvidia has, *just* recently, *started* releasing *some* driver code for linux. That's going to be years and years away from leading to openbsd support.)
19:48 < ssm_> nvidia was going to release an open driver but then half assed it
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19:55 < mischief> only full-assed drivers allowed around here
19:56 < gt> or assed and a half 
19:57 < oldlaptop> mischief: (amd's gpu driver might beg to differ)
19:57 < fan> oldlaptop: very strange
19:57 < fan> https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/haiku-nvidia-porting-nvidia-driver-for-turing-gpus/16520
19:58 < oldlaptop> Haiku is not OpenBSD.
19:59 < oldlaptop> Maybe if they find porting nvidia's stuff technically feasible, one day an OpenBSD developer will decide to attempt it. That is years in the future, if it ever happens at all.
19:59 < oldlaptop> Right now, recent NVIDIA hardware is not supported.
20:01 < thrig> recent being somewhat lengthy
20:01 < oldlaptop> Indeed. How long has it been since the newest nv(4)-supported GPU? Fifteen years?
20:01 < fan> Sadly. why openbsd going to be years and years 
20:02 < oldlaptop> <oldlaptop> [not repinging]: I don't think the two or three people who shovel that particular Augean stable for openbsd are particularly motivated to do all that work, because they've been avoiding nvidia hardware for decades, because nvidia has been a hostile vendor since sometime in the previous century.
20:02 < Bradipo> fan: Maybe you can convince NVIDIA to do the work?  Tell them that there are numerous OpenBSD users who ditch their hardware because it doesn't work.
20:03 < Bradipo> I would be glad to use NVIDIA if it worked.  Would prefer it in fact.
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20:03 < Bradipo> But alas, doesn't work, so I settle for AMD and Intel.
20:03 < oldlaptop> That is certainly slightly more likely to result in NVIDIA writing a driver and mailing it to tech@ than toggling a sysctl.
20:04 < ssm_> I recommending personally Ccing theo in bugs@ about how much you want an nvidia driver, he will help you
20:10 < TommyC> heh
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20:11 < rewtkid> Bradipo: why would a multi trillion dollar corporation care about a few people not using their stuff on openbsd? just avoid all their crap, simple solution :D
20:11 < yang3> IcePic any idea how to speed this up on yeeloong? It seems like it will take forever to compile "lxqt" https://paste.debian.net/plainh/ead005df
20:11 < Bradipo> rewtkid: Well, as a result, I also don't use NVIDIA anywhere.
20:11 < Bradipo> Not just on OpenBSD.
20:12 < rewtkid> awesome
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20:12 < Bradipo> Because if I use NVIDIA once, then I have a piece of hardware that I won't be able to use with OpenBSD at some later date if I so choose.
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20:12 < oldlaptop> yang3: Other than cross-compiling or putting together a nice, big dpb cluster...
20:12 < oldlaptop> (not sure where you'd even start for a cross-compiled bulk build or something. that's not generally how it's done)
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20:14  * oldlaptop pictures a bookshelf full of loongson machines whining away for a few weeks doing a bulk build
20:14 < ssm_> every build slave makes the loooongson one o longer
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20:15 < oldlaptop> I guess those things are probably fanless, though? (maybe they have coil whine to make up for it)
20:16 < yang3> no they aren't fanless, the fan is quite loud
20:16 < oldlaptop> Lovely. :|
20:16 < yang3> so I don't have it on 24/7
20:16 < yang3> only a few hours a day
20:16 < yang3> it will get there...maybe in a month
20:17 < yang3> usually other programs compiled withing max. few hours build time
20:17 < yang3> I dunno why these dependancies on Qt? and llvm?  Sorry, I am not a developer
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20:19 < oldlaptop> For lxqt? The Qt dependency seems kind of obvious.
20:19 < yang3> yes
20:19 < oldlaptop> I'd guess offhand one or more things in the dependency chain is flagged to be built with ports clang, but that's a wild guess.
20:19 < yang3> Do I need to compile some kind of compiler to speed it up ?
20:21 < oldlaptop> I'm not aware of any magic "go faster" button.
20:21 < yang3> ok
20:21 < oldlaptop> https://man.openbsd.org/dpb is capable of using multiple machines to build a collection of ports in parallel (and therefore faster than building them on a single machine one after the other).
20:22 < oldlaptop> Hence my joke about the bookshelf full of netbooks.
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20:24 < yang3> yes
20:27 < fan> oldlaptop: Apparently developers in OpenBSD themselves are not interested in integrating drivers from NVIDIA
20:27 < anelli> afaik nvidia are a pain to work with
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20:28 < anelli> check torvalds flipping the bird famous video xD (i'm not sure if it's entirely related but it's funny nontheless)
20:28 < anelli> so yeah just don't use nvidia if you wanna unix. not worth it
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20:34 < ssm_> followup from a few days ago, can't reproduce being unable to destroy ppp(4). I thought I did for a minute, but then I was able to destroy it again. hooray.
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21:32 < sonya> gcc 15.1 is out: https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-15/
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22:02 < rnelson> No 15.0? (dev version is 16.0, so they're not allergic to 0)
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22:03 < sonya> 15.0 was development version until release of 15.1 ..
22:04 < rnelson> Ah. That's unusual, I don't know of other things that use that versioning scheme
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22:08 < anelli> even dev odd stable? i heared oh somth like that
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22:09 < rnelson> 13.3 and 14.2, one odd/one even, both look like regular releases
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22:11 < vortexx> ssm_: glad you worked that out, it was odd. How close are you to getting the usb driver working?
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22:13 < sonya> https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#num_scheme
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22:19 < anelli> kinda trippy
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22:20 < Bradipo> https://man.openbsd.org/route#show seems to suggest that the show command takes a "family".
22:21 < Bradipo> But I've tried inet4 and -inet4 and any other combination of "family" that I can think of, including AF_INET6.
22:21 < Bradipo> The man page doesn't seem to document that "family" means in this context.
22:23 < Bradipo> It seems to think that it wants to be -inet4, but then I get: route botched keyword: -inet4
22:24 < Bradipo> Oh, doh, it's just -inet, lol.
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22:28 < mischief> ye olden inet
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22:35 < Bradipo> Yeah, I use -inet6 and then think that -inet4 must be the analog.
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23:19 < oldlaptop> rnelson: Linux used to be even-stable-odd-development, a long time ago. (The last such "development" series was 2.5.x, for perspective.)
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23:20 < oldlaptop> games/wesnoth (https://openports.pl/path/games/wesnoth) does that as well
23:21 < rnelson> Yup. I ran many a 2.5 kernel on my Slackware install on a Latitude XPi CD. Took a WEEK to build KDE 3 and an updated version of X required to run KDE 3. Then KDE took forever to load so I left it after a couple minutes and went back to just working on the VTs.
23:21 < oldlaptop> Less common than it once was, I suppose. It *is* odd to have it reversed (odd-stable-even-development) to my recollection.
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23:22 < oldlaptop> (And it doesn't look like they, in fact, do that - rather .0 is special?)
23:23 < oldlaptop> https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html#num_scheme That *is* weird.
23:24 < Bradipo> oldlaptop: Speaking of wesnoth, that's a clever game... I should install it again.
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23:26 < oldlaptop> Pretty good example of how a simple core ruleset can take you far.
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23:59 < vortexx> yeah I remember 2.5.x but I don't think I ran it, this was before I got into gentoo
--- Log closed Sat Apr 26 00:00:58 2025