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03:48 < mischief> spent all day hacking on this stupid status page http://status.offblast.org/
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03:48 < mischief> (i am not a web programmer)
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04:03 < thrig> any web programmer worth their salt would have made the page unusable with w3m
04:04 < mischief> i didnt check tbh, just been in firefox
04:04 < pardis> and would say "engineer" instead of "programmer"
04:04 < thrig> engineer is a term that needs an exam and certification in some places
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06:58 < jfsimon> Good morning, if some persons are interested support this project we can gather for more exchanges about it
06:58 < jfsimon> https://jean-francois-simon.fr/uploads/pi/cPI_Berry_short_specs_v1.1.pdf
07:03 < Posterdati> hi
07:03 < Posterdati> so no more freezes! Should be the screensavers! :(
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08:23 < jxl> can someone confirm that Matthieu Herrb's mail address is matthieu[at]openbsd.org? just want to be completely sure.
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08:34 < quinq> That's the email used on the mailing list at least
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08:37 < jxl> quinq: roger roger. thanks!
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08:41 < quinq> :)
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11:43 < rIMpossible> Where is 'plank' gone in packages?
11:43 < sibiria> i guess that port........ go to walk the plank. IIIIIIIYEEEEAAAAAAAH
11:44 < sibiria> wasn't it abanonded like ages ago?
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11:48 < rIMpossible> sibiria: I had it still in 7.6
11:49 < rIMpossible> Is there another appropiate program?
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11:51 < sibiria> not sure. plank was the only dock i ever used with X on openbsd. i would try search the ports repo on the github mirror to see if there's anything obvious about why it's missing
11:52  * oldlaptop finds cvsweb much more usable for such questions - far easier to pull up the commit log for a specific Makefile that's been 'moved to the Attic'
11:53 < rIMpossible> sibiria: Ok, thank you for pointing me there. I found pmenu in packages, but that's nooot the same ;)
11:53 < rIMpossible> oldlaptop: Thx
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11:55 < oldlaptop> (guess that's a little less convenient if you don't happen to know which section the port was in)
11:55 < oldlaptop> or if the bots happen to have murdered cvsweb this week
11:55 < sibiria> https://github.com/openbsd/ports/commit/1170739b3cee66c526df5a12984650f18cac210b
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12:02 < rIMpossible> sibiria: Thx
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18:44 < jxl> anyone here that maintains a port that has patches?
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18:45 < jxl> I'm preparing a port of a Go utility, and need to apply 2 patches (from upstream) for it to work on OpenBSD (one of which I authored myself and got merged today). 
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18:46 < jxl> The issue is that both of them modify go.mod and go.sum, and as a result, making the PLIST is broken, as the dependencies have been updated, but not fetched.
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18:50 < thrig> maybe look for other Go ports that do something similar?
18:50 < jxl> thrig: yeah, doing that right now. not a lot of them though.
18:51 < jxl> maybe i should include rust ports that patch Cargo.{toml,lock}
18:51 < thrig> or ask on a mailing list to see if someone can set you aright
18:52 < jxl> yeah, that's my next step if I can't figure this out. the mailing list is the last place I reach out to, to not create needless noise on there.
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20:31 < ssm_> I wrote a usage() function in a shell script that if $1 is set or non-empty, 1 will expand to >&2. the relevant line in the function looks like `echo "usage: ${0##*/} [-Mhl] [-m mfs_size]" ${1+>&2}`; however ${1+>&2} is just getting echo'd instead of redirecting output to stderr.
20:32 < ssm_> specifically ${1+>&2} expands to >&2 which gets echo'd instead of doing a redirection
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20:35 < thrig> maybe check where redirections happen vs. interpolation?
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20:36 < thrig> e.g. what's the difference between >&2 echo foo ; echo >&2 foo ; echo foo >&2
20:36 < quinq> none
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20:41 < ssm_> if I move ${1+>&2} before echo, ksh returns `>&2: not found`
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20:42 < thrig> maybe use a more elaborate if / else to branch the maybe redirect
20:42 < Lucas_> ssm_: I don't think that shell works like that
20:43 < Lucas_> it isn't very macro-based, so to say
20:44 < Lucas_> what you could do instead (but I suggest against) is eval "echo \"...\" ${1+>&2}"
20:45 < Lucas_> the easiest solution for this use case would be to have usage always redirect to stdout and do the redirection at call place
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20:45 < Lucas_> there even easiest solution is to always write to stderr and don't care
20:45 < Lucas_> I don't see a case where I'd want the usage in a place other than stderr
20:45 < thrig> yeah I always send usage to stderr
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20:49 < ssm_> -h or --help flags are where you'd send to stdout instead, usually
20:50 < thrig> -h goes to stderr
20:50 < quinq> ssm_, that's not how substitution work in sh
20:50 < quinq> There are different steps
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20:51 < quinq> Yeah, kind of what Lucas_ said
20:51 < quinq> I suggest you look at what `exec` does
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20:52 < Lucas_> no? I believe a whole lot of programs still print -h output into stderr
20:54 < quinq> Welll, although my own taste, I agree with ssm_ here
20:54 < quinq> If explicitely requested, the help message should go to stderr
20:55 < quinq> If it's out of error, then stderr sounds ok
20:55 < Bradipo> So in both cases stderr?
20:55 < quinq> Bradipo, typo :D
20:55 < ssm_> probably meant stdout the first time
20:55 < quinq> requested > stderr
20:55 < quinq> the f.
20:55 < Bradipo> I can see an argument for the "user requested help" going to stdout.
20:55 < quinq> requested > stdout
20:55 < quinq> Even my fingers disagree with me
20:56 < thrig> "user did not request help, but their buggy code supplied a -h (maybe a glob picked up on a -h file) and now stdout is corrupted with help blather"
20:56 < quinq> Bradipo, mostly for `ninetynineoptionstool -h | less`
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20:57 < Bradipo> But what if the command doesn't have an explicit handler for -h?
20:57 < quinq> thrig, a bug is a bug
20:57 < vortexx> first syspatch of 7.7 has landed: syspatch77-001_nfs
20:57 < quinq> Bradipo, then you get stderr :>
20:57 < thrig> so, all my programs only send help to stderr, never to stdout
20:57 < quinq> That's fine
20:57 < Bradipo> I think mine currently send to stderr too, most of the time.
20:58 < quinq> If it fits on a god-intended monitor
20:58 < thrig> also the "help" is a very brief message so there is no need for a less pipe; there's a man page for the docs.
20:58 < quinq> yeah
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20:59 < quinq> In mine I just print the synopsis and then it's implied “for more read the fantastic manpage”
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21:13 < mischief> just make -h exec man $0, easy as
21:13 < mischief> not that it is a shining star of usability, but git does this
21:14 < mischief> `git log --help` -> man git-log
21:16 < thrig> I'd rather remove exec support with pledge, if possible
21:17 < Bradipo> As long as there exists a man page.
21:18 < mischief> okay, `echo man $0` then and make the user exec :-P
21:20 < thumbs> /5/21
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--- Log closed Tue May 06 00:00:12 2025